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I love how "Phase Shift" in Pokkén Tournament DX keeps this fighter feeling FRESH

Neiteio

Member
I recently picked up Pokkén Tournament DX on Switch, having heard great things about it, and having missed the original on WiiU. The Switch port has upgraded performance and new playable Pokemon, supports, stages and modes, like 3v3 Team Battles and Replay Theater.

However, I didn't think this game would capture my imagination the way it has. Outside of Smash Bros with its litany of fan service (and all of the resulting scenarios you can create), many fighters inherently feel "small" to me with their fixed perspectives — either side-scrolling 2D or circle-strafing 3D, all in a self-contained arena.

Now, Pokkén still plays out in self-contained arenas — each with their own atmosphere and attention to detail, including a Where's Waldo's worth of cameos in the backgrounds — but there's a feature unique to Pokkén (to the best of my knowledge) that keeps everything feeling lively and dynamic, especially compared to other fighting games.


This feature is the Phase Shift. Battles begin in the 3D Field Phase, where you run freely around an open area with 360-degree movement, circle-strafing your opponent in a way reminiscent of Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm. Here, you generally focus on ranged attacks, pressuring your opponent with projectile spam or playing an elaborate game of keep-away, if it suits you.

You have a huge variety of moves at your disposal, all of which are easy to perform — no more complicated than a direction + a button. Each move has both style and substance: flashy, but also functional. Some moves even auto-combo via simple button-mashing, allowing even novice players to pull off fun and effective combos.

There's nothing esoteric about it, and the execution barrier at the input level is low. And yet the depth is still staggering — something that becomes apparent when you or your opponent initiate a Phase Shift.


Phase Shift lets you to have it both ways — 3D and 2D. Many of your moves end with a hard-hitting finisher that causes the game to pause dramatically for a split-second, conveying a strong sense of IMPACT. And then the camera deftly changes from the 3D Field Phase to the 2D Duel Phase (or vice-versa).

In the 2D Duel Phase, the viewpoint is similar to a side-scrolling fighting game — your typical Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat. Here's your opportunity to close the gap and corner your opponent, crushing them in close-quarters combat with your most devastating combos. Duel Phase also introduces low-stance and high-stance attacks, while retaining all of the directional and charge attacks you had in Field Phase.

The mix-ups are amazing at high levels of play — a level I'm nowhere near at the moment, but I've been searching and downloading the replay data for other players online and saving them to the Replay Theater, and I'm floored by what I see.


There's also Bloodborne-style health regeneration, where you can regain a shaded portion of recently lost health by quickly initiating a Phase Shift, similar to how counterattacking your enemy in Bloodborne will recover a slice of HP you're about to lose. It's easy to forget this in the heat of battle, but I imagine it's essential at high levels of play.

The advantages and disadvantages of Phase Shift — and the moves you use to trigger it — are highly situational, and change fluidly with the ebb and flow of battle. You have to really think about where and when you deploy it. And the overall effect is that the battles never look or feel "same-y" because the perspective is always changing — and with it, the calculus of battle, from the gameplay mechanics to how you use them.

I keep coming back to this game because it never feels dull. It makes me wonder if other fighting games have tried similar things to keep their battles feeling dynamic?

So, what are your thoughts on Phase Shift?
 

Tain

Member
Idk, I like the mode but I couldn’t get too into the pacing of switching back and forth back in the original. I’d be willing to give it another shot though.

I think I’d rather play a good straight up arena fighter, and that genre is BOOMING right now.
 
I like phase shift quite a bit, but like many things in Pokken, it's always felt... off to me in a way. I guess the clear distinction between moments of pacing in a fight is too distracting and makes fights feel repetitive even though they clearly aren't. Especially for casual players, matches feel like you're trying to get from one phase shift to another and the battle just sort of bleeds into each other.

Also having the control change makes having to learn a second control scheme in the heat of battle, and even after playing the Wii U and Switch version for about 70ish hours combined I still don't have a complete grasp of my main's controls. That's not exactly a bad thing, but it is a lot to comprehend. Finally, like many things about Pokken, shifting feels so inorganic, thanks to the artificial and digital nature of the presentation.

On the flip side, it's kind of exactly how I imagined Pokemon battles to be like and the field section lowers the skill floor by allowing for mistakes and having ability to dodge in a larger capacity.

Personally, I'd like a dedicated 2D and 3D mode on top of the regular mode. More options would be nice and this would definitely help alleviate the repetition problem that the game suffers from (that DX does a decent job at trying to fix).
 

Neiteio

Member
Idk, I like the mode but I couldn't get too into the pacing of switching back and forth back in the original. I'd be willing to give it another shot though.

I think I'd rather play a good straight up arena fighter, and that genre is BOOMING right now.
I actually think it's a big benefit to pacing. Changing the perspective looks interesting and keeps things feeling fresh. It feels fair, too, since you're in control of when the view changes (unless your opponent is the one who changes it — but you can always change it back). And the way it switches up the gameplay keeps you on your toes.

I think I'm most surprised by how accessible it is. There's an initial bit of experimentation to learn which moves trigger Phase Shift (I'd estimate about one-third of the moveset), but the game generally does a good job of visually communicating it. For example, most Pokemon have a running weak attack (Y button) that fires off several volleys of projectiles, and the final projectile looks different and hits hardest, triggering the split-second pause and then the Phase Shift.
 

Neiteio

Member
Also, I'm not sure yet, but I suspect that some Pokemon are slightly better suited for Field Phase over Duel Phase (and vice-versa). All Pokemon are perfectly viable in both phases, but I imagine the meta would reveal certain Pokemon having a slight edge in one phase over another. Maybe the more veteran players can weigh in.
 
Also, I'm not sure yet, but I suspect that some Pokemon are slightly better suited for Field Phase over Duel Phase (and vice-versa). All Pokemon are perfectly viable in both phases, but I imagine the meta would reveal certain Pokemon having a slight edge in one phase over another. Maybe the more veteran players can weigh in.
That's the case, yeah.

Field phase kinda sucks for Machamp for example, especially if he loses it. Transitioning to duel phase against keepaway keeps Champ as far back as possible there which is probably even worse lol.
 
I really hate it.

I'd be okay with a fully 3D arena type fighter that tried to be actually decent and legitimate for once, and I'd really love a purely 2D fighter.

But the constant back and forth multiple times a match makes the game unwatchable/unplayable for me.

Pokken is still a distant third behind the two best Pokémon fighting games

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(Type Wild)

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Battle-Capacity.jpg

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(Battle Capacity)
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
It's a fun reset that still gives an advantage to the one on offense (most of the time) It's really great.
 

Neiteio

Member
Pokken looks overwhelming if you're just a spectator and haven't tried it — there's so much happening on the screen — but it's surprising how easy the game is to actually learn and control. The inputs, the movement, the phase shift — it all feels fluid and intuitive.
 

DrArchon

Member
I like what it does for keep away. Most keep away gameplay in 2d fighters in incredibly boring for the person on the receiving end, and while that's in Pokken, most of the keep away is in field phase where the person trying to get in gets to do so in a more active manner than just jumping, dashing, and blocking in intervals.
 

Neiteio

Member
I like what it does for keep away. Most keep away gameplay in 2d fighters in incredibly boring for the person on the receiving end, and while that's in Pokken, most of the keep away is in field phase where the person trying to get in gets to do so in a more active manner than just jumping, dashing, and blocking in intervals.
To add to this, the keep-away game also feels fair and balanced, because pretty much every Pokemon has projectile attacks that can trigger Phase Shift, meaning you can tag an evasive opponent back into Duel Phase (if your timing and aim is true!), where you can quickly close the gap.
 

dawgparty

Member
Idk, I like the mode but I couldn’t get too into the pacing of switching back and forth back in the original. I’d be willing to give it another shot though.

I think I’d rather play a good straight up arena fighter, and that genre is BOOMING right now.

What are some big/new arena fighters right now? I love the games but haven't really heard of any newer ones.
 
I like what it does for keep away. Most keep away gameplay in 2d fighters in incredibly boring for the person on the receiving end, and while that's in Pokken, most of the keep away is in field phase where the person trying to get in gets to do so in a more active manner than just jumping, dashing, and blocking in intervals.
You're still jumping, dashing and blocking in intervals. Just in 3D lol.

Getting around keepaway in this game isn't any better than other fighting games, it's even worse at times if anything.
 

Peltz

Member
I like phase shift quite a bit, but like many things in Pokken, it's always felt... off to me in a way. I guess the clear distinction between moments of pacing in a fight is too distracting and makes fights feel repetitive even though they clearly aren't. Especially for casual players, matches feel like you're trying to get from one phase shift to another and the battle just sort of bleeds into each other.

Also having the control change makes having to learn a second control scheme in the heat of battle, and even after playing the Wii U and Switch version for about 70ish hours combined I still don't have a complete grasp of my main's controls. That's not exactly a bad thing, but it is a lot to comprehend. Finally, like many things about Pokken, shifting feels so inorganic, thanks to the artificial and digital nature of the presentation.

On the flip side, it's kind of exactly how I imagined Pokemon battles to be like and the field section lowers the skill floor by allowing for mistakes and having ability to dodge in a larger capacity.

Personally, I'd like a dedicated 2D and 3D mode on top of the regular mode. More options would be nice and this would definitely help alleviate the repetition problem that the game suffers from (that DX does a decent job at trying to fix).

I agree. Movement in general along with all the different systems doesn't give you the "euphoric" feeling of control that you get in most fighting games. Even ARMS and Smash Bros. give you the feeling I'm talking about along with traditional 2D and 3D fighting games.

This game feels so darn stilted and inorganic in comparison (as you said).
 

Neiteio

Member
I agree. Movement in general along with all the different systems doesn't give you the "euphoric" feeling of control that you get in most fighting games. Even ARMS and Smash Bros. give you the feeling I'm talking about along with traditional 2D and 3D fighting games.

This game feels so darn stilted and inorganic in comparison (as you said).
The only movement that ever feels a bit "awkward," imo, is some of the directional movement in field phase since it's pretty digital, relative to your opponent. But you quickly acclimate to it and see how the game is built around it.

The moves and such chain together quite fluidly, and the wind-up on charging certain attacks feels amazing, similar to a smash attack in Smash Bros.
 

DrArchon

Member
You're still jumping, dashing and blocking in intervals. Just in 3D lol.

Getting around keepaway in this game isn't any better than other fighting games, it's even worse at times if anything.

That's still one more dimension to move around in than you normally get.

Also, everyone has projectiles of their own to throw out regardless of which character you are. They may not all be great, but it's something.

I'm not saying keep away can't be dominant, heavens no. Just that you get to play more actively when you're on the receiving end of it.
 

Neiteio

Member
How's the home screen icon though?
I know you're being cheeky, and that's OK! To seriously answer your question, the icon is actually one of the best, right up there with MK8D and the new SteamWorld Dig 2 icon (which just went live today!).

The icon for Pokken shows 20 of the 21 battle Pokemon (everyone except the boss Shadow Mewtwo) exploding toward the screen, with the logo in the middle. It's pretty fantastic, and a huge improvement over the key art for the WiiU original, which was just Pikachu fighting Lucario.

I really like this game's look in general. There are times I wish the image quality was better (it's been upgraded to a true 720p on TV and in handheld, and runs at a rock-solid 60fps, but it can still look soft at time). But the art direction itself is excellent, especially on the battle Pokemon.
 

Peltz

Member
The only movement that ever feels a bit "awkward," imo, is some of the directional movement in field phase since it's pretty digital, relative to your opponent. But you quickly acclimate to it and see how the game is built around it.

The moves and such chain together quite fluidly, and the wind-up on charging certain attacks feels amazing, similar to a smash attack in Smash Bros.

We just have different tastes. Nothing wrong with that.

I just get a different feel from this game than you do. It feels like the antithesis of Smash to me.
 

Neiteio

Member
We just have different tastes. Nothing wrong with that.

I just get a different feel from this game than you do. It feels like the antithesis of Smash to me.
It's fine, of course. :) But you don't like smash attacks? They have such a satisfying sense of tension and release, like firing a slingshot.
 

lionpants

Member
SteamWorld Dig 2 icon (which just went live today!)..
!! I can start playing it again.

I wasn't trying to down-play your care for the icons or anything, just a cheeky thing to toss in I guess. Haha.

I'm totally on your side about the bad icons. :)
 

Neiteio

Member
!! I can start playing it again.

I wasn't trying to down-play your care for the icons or anything, just a cheeky thing to toss in I guess. Haha.

I'm totally on your side about the bad icons. :)
Yeah, the new icon for SteamWorld Dig 2 looks great. :)

It didn't show up for me at first, though. I had to delete the game and then redownload it.

But yeah, it's a huge improvement. I bought the game as soon as the update went live.
 

Giga Man

Member
If that title was from anyone else but Neiteio, I would have thought it was sarcasm.

I think Phase Shift makes watching Pokken matches boring as it happens so often, and it's a feature that pauses all action in the middle of the match.
 

heringer

Member
This sounds interesting, I think I will try Pokken to see if I like it.

I would like to read and follow more of this discussion OP, but I can't stand your avatar, its really ugly so I think I'm going to leave the thread, ok? :(
 

Kebiinu

Banned
I love it. Its a really, really good mechanic. Some Pokemon are better suited to one phase over the other, and counter dash canceling allows you to close in on gaps, in ways other fighters can't represent. The options out of counter alone, encourages so many different types of approaches. It's very fun to play.

But it's a divisive feature at the end of the day. Spectating may be hit or miss, but if it clicks, it feels great.
 

bounchfx

Member
Oh weird, phase shift is the thing that kept me away from the game. Couldn't stand it, felt gimmicky and as much as I like switchups in games, it felt like something I wouldn't appreciate in a fighter
 

KHlover

Banned
I hate phase shift and the 2D part, they're the reason I didn't buy Pokken and never will. Make it a 3D arena fighter like NUNS and I'm in.
 
I like it a lot too. You really feel the impact of a combo when it hits you so hard even the camera gets pushed. It keeps things really fresh and controls are pretty transferable too so it isn't much of a learning curve.
 

Neiteio

Member
I like it a lot too. You really feel the impact of a combo when it hits you so hard even the camera gets pushed. It keeps things really fresh and controls are pretty transferable too so it isn't much of a learning curve.
Those hard-hitting moments where it switches perspective are so addictive. Seamless, too — the bone-rattling CRUNCH and the screen's dramatic pause does an elegant job glossing over the actual transition, making it feel fluid.
 

FSLink

Banned
As someone who enjoys playing fighters at a competitive level, Pokken is fun as a whole but Phase Shift is a gimmick. If anything I find more negatives in the system than positives, but from the OP's constant hyperbole of everything I'm not sure he understands them.
 

RomanceDawn

Member
The phase shift is exactly what Neiteio said and more.

Play every other fighting game if you want a specific view point all the time. Pokken gives a ton of control and options for your pokemon with very simple inputs and when you get it the game really does shine.

I hated it initially but once I understood what the game was allowing me to do my opinion made a full reversal.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
I just like mashing buttons...though that's pretty much how I play any fighting games that isn't Smash Bros.

But yeah Pokkén Tournament is a fun game to play, I played it the other day with my 6 years old cousin...she trashed me by 2-5.
 

patchday

Member
Idk, I like the mode but I couldn't get too into the pacing of switching back and forth back in the original. I'd be willing to give it another shot though.

I think I'd rather play a good straight up arena fighter, and that genre is BOOMING right now.

huh I wonder what Arena fighters this post refers to beyond Naruto & Gundam
 

patchday

Member
ARMS and Gundam Versus come to mind as games that could possibly be described as "arena fighters"

ARMS has random loot & stats so in my mind its not a fighting game at all (just my opinon based on what I've read complaints on gear affecting Ranked) but I can understand why some folks would consider it

But yeah not too many pure "Arena" fighters. I can only think of Gundam & Naruto
 

Alchemy

Member
Its cool, but I never have problems with fighting games "feeling fresh" because it always ends up being about the competitor I'm playing. If the game is balanced and has fun base mechanics, going through different high level competition is always going to be fun to me even if the mechanics aren't changing during the match.
 

patchday

Member
I hate phase shift and the 2D part, they're the reason I didn't buy Pokken and never will. Make it a 3D arena fighter like NUNS and I'm in.

what the heck is NUNS? yall killing me

[edit] NUNS == Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm? LOL just say Naruto
 
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