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Using a dvd recorder to capture game videos, worth it?

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Diablohead

Member
I don't have the most powerful pc and want to get around to grabbing video footage from my consoles without having to play in SD on my cheap tv card which also has lag, and I was thinking about dvd video recorders as a way to grab footage.

Does anyone know how good of a method this can be? for a cheap price I imagine that the game would have to go through the recorder in SD but any kind of display delay should be minimal just like the old methods of using a VHS recorder to grab my megadrive video's. I play my 360 over component on a lcd tv 99% of the time.
 
What do you mean "display delay"?

I used to use a Phillips DVD Recorder to record DVDs off my DVR over component. It was still 480i but the results were fairly decent...

edit: Actually, I know what you mean now about "display delay". You would need to play using the monitor input. I can't speak to this 100% because I only recorded static content but I can't imagine there being much of if any of it. It's basically just a pass through.
 
I just bought a cheap USB capture thing last week, though you probably already know this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJZR32fdrQ&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnMSwwsfg6M&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Ouka_XyNM&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98VMxXYF9UI&fmt=18

An EasyCap 2.0. Only $15 at Amazon, very little lag. Not the greatest quality, though. I don't know if it's because I've only used it with composite (it also supports S-Video), but it's roughly equivalent to a VHS tape. 320x240, 30fps. Can do 640x480, but that's when it starts dropping frames and you get terrible ghosting. Also had a bit of trouble setting it up.

But hey, it was $15.
 
From what I understand, most DVD recorders will give you lag if you input the console through the recorder then to the TV. If you split the connection and sent it to both the TV and the recorder at the same time, it would work really well. If you're willing to record in 480i some standard "Y" splitters would do the job just fine and you wouldn't have to worry about the lag.
 
Sega1991 said:
I don't know if it's because I've only used it with composite (it also supports S-Video), but it's roughly equivalent to a VHS tape. 320x240, 30fps. Can do 640x480, but that's when it starts dropping frames and you get terrible ghosting. Also had a bit of trouble setting it up.
Click to expand...

I'm curious; what kind of trouble did you have setting it up? I ask because I've seen videos recorded with the EasyCap that were 640x480 with no problems like that.

Also, S-Video looks a good deal better with these capture devices than composite.
 
Catapult Beetle said:
I'm curious; what kind of trouble did you have setting it up? I ask because I've seen videos recorded with the EasyCap that were 640x480 with no problems like that.

Also, S-Video looks a good deal better with these capture devices than composite.
Click to expand...

My Easycap was locked to PAL format video and I had a bitch of a time getting it off. Every time I'd set it to NTSC, the minute I'd initialize the video it'd switch back to PAL. I had to initialize the video and then set it to NTSC for my settings to stick.

It also has a really bad habit of locking my PC up if I minimize whatever window is accessing it - even if there's nothing to display.

Also: Getting sound from the Easycap to come out of my speakers, I have to use a program called Virtual Audio Cable because it doesn't work for some reason any other way. Videos I record have audio regardless of what I do, but if I want to see the video live and hear sound from it, I have to use Virtual Audio Cable.

And yeah, I start to get lag, and ghosting, and interlacing problems if I set to 640x480.
 
Diablohead said:
I don't have the most powerful pc and want to get around to grabbing video footage from my consoles without having to play in SD on my cheap tv card which also has lag, and I was thinking about dvd video recorders as a way to grab footage.

Does anyone know how good of a method this can be? for a cheap price I imagine that the game would have to go through the recorder in SD but any kind of display delay should be minimal just like the old methods of using a VHS recorder to grab my megadrive video's. I play my 360 over component on a lcd tv 99% of the time.
Click to expand...

I don't capture SD anymore, but I used to with my set top Panasonic DVD recorder. I don't notice any lag and I mainly used it to capture CvS2 and GGXX. Of course that wasn't the reason I got it... I needed to get away from crappy VCR to record my weekly WWE while I wasn't home to watch it.

Anyways, if you're recording at the highest setting (I think my Panasonic does like 17-20 hours for the 80 gig hard drive in it), the quality is excellent for video. The main problem I have with mine is that to get it to my pc, I have to burn the video onto a DVD-RW. It's a pain in the ass.

It depends on you though. I'm pretty sure a capture card that takes S-video in is FAR cheaper than a dvd recorder. I'm pretty sure your computer can handle it unless it's piss ancient and/or the card requires the cpu to do apply the compression in real time. Even then, frames are small in SD and shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: Also, I don't know of any DVD recorders that have component in. I'm sure there are some now (I bought my Panasonic like.. crap.. 4 years ago?), but I'm also positive they're gonna be hella expensive. I do capturing with my black magic intensity now which is quite excellent.
 
My pc is from around 2003 or 2004 I can't remember now and back then when it was new I brought some £40 hauppauge tv card which was very basic and recording video's would make the sound become out of sync after about 5 minutes, it's rather rubbish.

I may look into a newer tv card before moving on to a dvd recorder but I could also record stuff from the tv also at a much higher quality while out at university, hm.

Also, sega1991, when you record with your new adapter are you playing the game in a small window on the pc, fullscreen but real washed out image or are you splitting the output to two screens?
 
Diablohead said:
I may look into a newer tv card before moving on to a dvd recorder but I could also record stuff from the tv also at a much higher quality while out at university, hm.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the huge benefit of a DVD recorder. The quality crushes a VCR (rightfully should). It's really nice to have one with a hard drive so you can just over record a bunch of crap and then just edit it with the remote and hack off the crap you don't want from the stuff you recorded. Seriously saves on DVDs used! If you're sticking with SD for a long time, I'd highly recommend using a DVD recorder with HDD to record SD material. Out of all the purchases I've made in my life, it's seriously in the top 3 as far as smart purchases go.
 
Don't know if this will help but I use a Hava Platinum HD which cost me around $85 for my game recordings. It allows you to play in HD while recording in SD. Below are some vids I recorded with it.

No More Heroes Music Video - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF...myeyeout_no_more_heroes_natural_one_videogam/

Shaun White - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF...un_whiteroad_trip_playing_as_shaun_white_vid/

Mushroom Men - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF...room_men_gameplay_montage_2_videogames_video/

RE5 - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF...resident_evil_5_demo_clip_1_videogames_video/

Before I got the Hava I used an AverMedia Capture Card which worked pretty well(below are a few examples)

DeBlob - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF...itka_deblob_gameplay_clip_3_videogames_video/

MP3 - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF...oid_prime_corruption_montage_videogames_vide/

Dead Space - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF/video/yoJI3ddf/miniditka_dead_space_clip_6_videogames_video/

Pure - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF/video/FBViLjEd/miniditka_pure_videogames_video/

Super Mario Galaxy - http://www.imeem.com/people/x3pRCQF...uper_mario_galaxy_montage_2_videogames_video/

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UJE1O2/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Spec requirements for the Hava

Desktop or laptop computer with minimum Intel Pentium 1.2 GHz or equivalent (1.5 GHz or higher recommended)
Operating System: Windows XP SP2 (Home, Pro or MCE) 32 bit, or Windows Vista (32/64 bit) (all versions)
System RAM: 512MB for WinXP, 1GB for Vista
Disk space: 75 MB to install the HAVA software; at least 500 MB for time-shifting; 10 GB recommended for recording
10/100 Ethernet equipped PC (for wired mode)
Wireless 802.11g LAN-equipped PC (for wireless connection to HAVA or wireless cleints)
Wired or wireless home router with available Ethernet port
DirectX 9-class graphics card
Audio output capability
Home networking requirements
10/100 base-T router with available Ethernet port (wired connection to HAVA and clients)
Wireless 802.11g home router (for wireless connection to HAVA or wireless clients)
Broadband internet connectivity for remote viewing (recommended 300Kbps upstream
 
Diablohead said:
Also, sega1991, when you record with your new adapter are you playing the game in a small window on the pc, fullscreen but real washed out image or are you splitting the output to two screens?
Click to expand...

Mine can only have one window displaying the video input at a time. Depending on the capture program, I'd have a really small window to look at while I captured - eventually I settled on using Flash Media Encoder, which gives me a nice big window (with zoom options up to 400%) to look at of the video I am currently capturing.

Only downside is that Flash Media Encoder only saves in FLV format. But that's fine for me, because I have a FLV Converter (I made my own front-end for FFMPEG). I've also heard good things about Virtual VCR, but I have difficulty getting it to record sound (but I haven't messed with it a whole lot).
 
Sega1991: Do you know how much CPU power the codec you're using for recording is using? The EasyCap itself should be able to handle 640x480, but maybe the software is a resource hog. Have you tried VirtualDub for recording? That program plus the Huffyuv codec uses very little CPU power. The video files the Huffyuv codec produces have massive file sizes, but they can always be compressed later.
 
It's really bad that there's no DVR in existance that can actually record good. It's really fucking bad. I would like to do alot of filming but it seems people generally don't bother. The prices would be sky high for and HDDVR.

The thing I don't understand is why they aren't letting people record in component cables? SD does look LIGHTYEARS better that way.

Looks like I will need to sell my arm and buy a new PC with an over-expensive but awesome capture card.
 
I think most DVD recorders will have a delay because of the nature of recording analog->digital, so you might need a splitter.

I use this one from Radio Shack for S-Video and Composite. They also sell one for Component.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103065

I guess you could just use Y cables to split the connections, but it might result in a slight loss of quality compared to the powered amplifier. I've also noticed with the amplifer there is a slight degradtion in sound quality. I have a 6 output Pelican System Selector with 2 audio outputs, one for the TV and one for the recording device/splitter to get around that.

I've been considering picking up a DVD recording myself just to simplify the process to just hit record and play. Using my video capture card on my PC gets to a be a real hassle because of all the setup that has to get into getting the video the way I want it. I've had no luck with Virtual Dub except with editing, and usually used Dscaler for video recording. I'd use the Full Height (interlaced) option at 640x480, but could never quite understand how to get a good finalized version without interlacing lines. And that eats up a lot of space, about 30 minutes will be around 4 gigs with the Huffyuv codec.
 
This is an interesting idea.

I just hooked up a SONY DVD Recorder at my Dad's house last week. He wanted to put his old VHS tapes onto DVD and also record his Satellite onto DVD. It works surprisingly well and looks good to boot.

He outputs via HDMI to his HDTV but it also has component inputs. A console could hook up via the component and probably look pretty good.

It doesn't record in real time, it records after you hit the stop button (that is how it appeared to work anyway) and each recording is a new chapter on the disc. It's really slick.
 
I know this is six days old but I only just now got around to trying VirtualDub (I was busy recording and assembling footage for this).

Catapult Beetle said:
Sega1991: Do you know how much CPU power the codec you're using for recording is using? The EasyCap itself should be able to handle 640x480, but maybe the software is a resource hog. Have you tried VirtualDub for recording? That program plus the Huffyuv codec uses very little CPU power. The video files the Huffyuv codec produces have massive file sizes, but they can always be compressed later.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip about VirtualDub. I didn't know it could do that, and it provides a bigger capture window than Flash Media Encoder. I don't get so much framerate lag, either, but I still get ghosting. Both of these images were taken while in motion (spinning around in circles in Dragon Universe mode for DBZ Budokai 3).

640x480:
dbz1.jpg


320x240 (scaled up to 640x480 in an image editor):
dbz2.jpg


Funny thing is, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in clarity between 640x480 and scaled 320x240 save for the ghosting (though the game might just be inherently low-resolution, I dunno).
 
Ranger X said:
It's really bad that there's no DVR in existance that can actually record good. It's really fucking bad. I would like to do alot of filming but it seems people generally don't bother. The prices would be sky high for and HDDVR.
Click to expand...

We use this Kauppauge HD-PVR recorder that lets us record up to 1080i through component (HDMI is copyrighted or something like that). It has absolutely no lag, and is super easy to use. There's also this handy software included that converts the videos into whatever.
 
Sega1991 said:
Thanks for the tip about VirtualDub. I didn't know it could do that, and it provides a bigger capture window than Flash Media Encoder. I don't get so much framerate lag, either, but I still get ghosting. Both of these images were taken while in motion (spinning around in circles in Dragon Universe mode for DBZ Budokai 3).

640x480:
(img)

320x240 (scaled up to 640x480 in an image editor):
(img)

Funny thing is, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in clarity between 640x480 and scaled 320x240 save for the ghosting (though the game might just be inherently low-resolution, I dunno).
Click to expand...

It looks like the recording or screen grab was done in 320x240, then streched to 640x480.

Try taking a still shot using Dscaler at 640x480 and see how that compares.

Also, if the game is running at 30 FPS, the double image you see in the background is probably normal. A 30 fps game (Super Mario Sunshine) creates a double image look when moving the camera, while a 60 fps game (Metroid Prime) will be solid.

I can capture 640x480 interlaced with Dscaler, but haven't found out how to play it back properly deinterlaced. If you play this file back in Dscaler, it will deinterlace the video and play it back how its suppose to look, but I'm not sure how to do that for a final video without using the 'deinterlace' option in DivX for Xvid.

www.adventureofhyrule.com/game/testvideo/ds103.avi
 
Turns out there's not much difference because I had VirtualDub do de-interlacing (field blending).

The framerate stuff doesn't make any sense to me, because the ghosting only appears at 640x480 regardless of what the framerate for the game is, but it doesn't appear at 320x240.
 
Sega1991 said:
An EasyCap 2.0. Only $15 at Amazon, very little lag. Not the greatest quality, though. I don't know if it's because I've only used it with composite (it also supports S-Video), but it's roughly equivalent to a VHS tape. 320x240, 30fps. Can do 640x480, but that's when it starts dropping frames and you get terrible ghosting. Also had a bit of trouble setting it up.

But hey, it was $15.
Click to expand...

Damn, I was bout to buy one of these, but read all the Amazon reviews. Half are saying its good, others are saying avoid. Your videos seemed to have turned out all right. I wonder if the people who don't care for the product don't understand how to work such things. Sega1991, what is your computer set up (ram/cpu) ?
 
I fixed my old tv card on my computer and did some tests recording SD 360 footage over it, my pc seems to lack to power to hit above 15 fps when recording at a moderate resolution, so my best bet is either wait until I buy a new pc near the end of the year or grab a dvd recorder, thanks for the help everyone.
 
PacoDG said:
Damn, I was bout to buy one of these, but read all the Amazon reviews. Half are saying its good, others are saying avoid. Your videos seemed to have turned out all right. I wonder if the people who don't care for the product don't understand how to work such things. Sega1991, what is your computer set up (ram/cpu) ?
Click to expand...

3.2ghz Intel Pentium 4
2GB of DDR2 RAM
PCI-E GeForce 6600 GT (512mb)
 
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