• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

LTTP: Europa Universalis III, just ignore this consolites, its too complicated

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dionysus

Yaldog
The civilization series has sucked away more of my life than any other game other than WoW, and unlike WoW, it doesn't destroy lives. So it is strange that I have never really delved deeper into this genre until now. Well, I took the plunge and boy am I glad I did.

Europa Universalis III: Complete is the shit! (and only $29 for the game and 2 expansion packs on gamersgate.com.) I've not even completed one campaign, because the game is epically long. As I get better though, I am getting more and more confortable moving at the faster time settings.

What I love about this game:
1) It is intuitive in my opinion. Yea, the game engine is probably 1 million lines of logic operands that is complete gibberish to your average consolite japanophile pedo, but the effect is that it mimics reality. So, instead of trying to worry about the rules of the game, I just think about how things would work in the real world. Declare that the Portuguese throne is rightly yours because of marriage? Well, seeing as I married into every european civilization and they didn't like the direction I was using those marriage alliances, that was one massive war I had on my hands (reload save.) Go on a crusade of extermination against all the Sunni's in Africa, and yep, every Sunni nation and now the Ottoman empire is pissed at me. But hey, I am now supreme ruler of Africa!

2) The AI and engine is actually mimicing how history actually plays out.

3) Depth! I haven't even explored half of what it means to play this game. No idea what the Papacy or the Holy Roman Empire do. I am not even sure if I am in the Holy Roman Empire. I'd like to join though, so I could be proclaimed Holy Roman Emperor by bribing everyone like I do with the Papacy. Ferdinand I, Emperor of Castillian and the subjugated Africa, Benevelent Benefactor of the vassal states of Aragon and Portugual, would love to add that to his accomplishments. Not to mention that France is looking even more mighty than the Castillian Empire, and he needs allies!

4) Scarcity! This is not a game like GalCiv2 where eventually you can have everything. Everything is built such that you have a trade off. Want less rebellions, decentralize your government and have less national tax revenue. Propogate the royal family like jackrabbits by forcing 12 year old daughters to marry 50 year old pedo kings from Aragon may buy you stability on your borders while you fight the Moors, but the consequences are disastrous once you decide that Aragon has really nice lands. Trade, missionaries, colonists, generals, admirals, all competing for scarce budgetary resources.

5) Second chances. Say you fuck up and France was a little too powerful for England. Yea, 50 years of your history down the drain as your civilization can't recover. But, the game is constantly opening up new colonies to explore, so if you are the first to colonize a new area or continent, you can be right back in the game as a superpower.

As a mild history buff, I love this game. No act of god is going to wipe out the Spanish Armada this time when I fuck England, but it bears just close enough resemblance to real history to satisfy all those "what if" questions you had in high school world history.
 
I tried reading the body of your post, but I have a dated PC so I game primarily on consoles and I'm afraid that because of that I just couldn't follow. I think the gist of it was that there's this thing called "history" and you played a game based on it, but I can't be certain.
 
Dabanton said:
What a condescending thread title.
Click to expand...
You should see some of the "console tard" posts in the Hearts of Iron thread, which probably prompted this one's title.
 
Flyguy said:
I tried reading the body of your post, but I have a dated PC so I game primarily on consoles and I'm afraid that because of that I just couldn't follow. I think the gist of it was that there's this thing called "history" and you played a game based on it, but I can't be certain.
Click to expand...

The condescending thread title was just so people might actually click on the thread. A niche PC game LTTP thread disappears pretty fast. But I was hoping I could get it to stick around on the front page until I found some like minded strategy gamers, and maybe even convince a few Civ IV fans to give it a try.

Also, these are the graphics, I think it is fairly safe to say that this game doesn't need a great PC.

eu3.jpg


Its an old game, and it works the CPU harder than it will work the GPU. I bet 4 year old PCs with integrated graphics can play it.
 
I loved EU2. I have this game, still shrinkwrapped. But I hear it's shit without the In Nomine expansion. And I can't afford the expansion.

Should I delay? Or is it playable by itself after the patches?
 
dionysus said:
The condescending thread title was just so people might actually click on the thread.
Click to expand...
From the HOI thread:

Suburban Cowboy said:
they are crazy for charging so much for a game that looks like that
Click to expand...

hooijdonk17 said:
I loved EU2. I have this game, still shrinkwrapped. But I hear it's shit without the In Nomine expansion. And I can't afford the expansion.

Should I delay? Or is it playable by itself after the patches?
Click to expand...
It's not bad patched, it's just more enjoyable with the expansion. There's tons of mods out there too.
 
hooijdonk17 said:
I loved EU2. I have this game, still shrinkwrapped. But I hear it's shit without the In Nomine expansion. And I can't afford the expansion.

Should I delay? Or is it playable by itself after the patches?
Click to expand...

Complete is 27.99 for all expansions. In Nomine alone is 19.99.
 
dionysus said:
The condescending thread title was just so people might actually click on the thread. A niche PC game LTTP thread disappears pretty fast. But I was hoping I could get it to stick around on the front page until I found some like minded strategy gamers, and maybe even convince a few Civ IV fans to give it a try.
Click to expand...
I'm just giving you a hard time. My PC truly is dated. I wish I could play more strategy and sim games. I'm right at the minimum requirements for this game, but in my experience my PC chugs unless I can exceed the recommended requirements for most games.
 
For UK posters its only £6.99 at softuk.com

£15 for the complete edition at play.com. I went ahead and took a plunge on the standard edition, the op really piqued my interest and at £6.99 I figure I've got very little to lose. Been wanting to try something like this for a while, hopefully it isn't TOO complicated to get to grips with.
 
brain_stew said:
For UK posters its only £6.99 at softuk.com

£15 for the complete edition at play.com. I went ahead and took a plunge on the standard edition, the op really piqued my interest and at £6.99 I figure I've got very little to lose. Been wanting to try something like this for a while, hopefully it isn't TOO complicated to get to grips with.
Click to expand...

It has its problems for sure. Figuring out how to transport troops was a bitch. Your ships can't be in port, they have to be in the open seas. I didn't find out the use for my merchants or missionaries until 10 hours in.
 
dionysus said:
The condescending thread title was just so people might actually click on the thread. A niche PC game LTTP thread disappears pretty fast. But I was hoping I could get it to stick around on the front page until I found some like minded strategy gamers, and maybe even convince a few Civ IV fans to give it a try.
Click to expand...

Ok i apologize, that's some pretty good tactics:lol
 
EU3 newbies should immediately get two mods (search for them on the Paradox forums)

1) Theatrum Orbis Terrarum - makes the map look *much* prettier and easier to view at for long times.

2) Magna Mundi - completely overhauls EU3's mechanics and adds in many events based on real history in the timeline. Many EU veterans were disappointed that with EU3, Paradox pretty much removed the complete history angle, making it a more or less bland affair with no connection whatsoever to historic events that previously dictated the flow of the game. If you're a new player, you might not mind it all that much, but even so, you should give this mod a try, because it makes the game a lot deeper and more fun (in my opinion anyway).
 
Prefer EU 2 to this so much. I find EU 3 very loose in its history and HOI a different series to constricting. EU 2 to me is perfect it gives you freedom but guides you down a path of history that you can change but also observe actual events.

I also actually prefer the graphics of EU2 I know Im a freak but I think they are cleaner and easier to look at. I hate how you cant open up the map visually with royal marriages like with EU2 unless I am wrong on that one.

I do like the new gov choices but yeh I am a EU2 man still EU3 is good and I would love it if I hadnt played 2 first.
 
dionysus said:
It has its problems for sure. Figuring out how to transport troops was a bitch. Your ships can't be in port, they have to be in the open seas. I didn't find out the use for my merchants or missionaries until 10 hours in.
Click to expand...

Know of any good places to go on tips for a beginner. Any particularly good fan guides out there?
 
I so adore this game, especially after its expansions. Don't let anyone tell you that the game is "shit" without the two expansions, as that is not the case-yes, it is better with them for sure, but the base EU3 sucked down well over a hundred hours of my life last year, and this was right when it came out and before the base patching to EU3. The main gripe you'll have is that you'll find colonization and merchants to be a bit fiddly.

But it's sort of a game made for people that enjoy fiddling, so it didn't bother me.

EU3 really is the a true gem- it promotes the sort of rampaging megalomania that PC empire builders have when they play their games, and has a very detailed ruleset that challenges the player's ambitions and forces them to play a "dance of nations" in order to get control of that next juicy province. It has real tradeoffs and decisions to be made in nation devleopment, and while the game will allow you some leeway to bend the rules of the game, outright attempt to break them will result in disastrous consequences for the player.

For me, the biggest draw to the game is the way that the player can shape his particular instance of history. I've been playing with the Magna Mundi Platinum mod for EU3: IN in my current Muscovy/Russia game, and it's been a delight to deal with the challenge of an incredibly expansive Ottoman Empire and a Poland that inherited Lithuania whole instead of chopping it piecemeal with Bohemia or Crimea over the years. I've got a totally different set of challenges than I did when I played Mecklenburg, where I attempted to dismantle the HRE and form a mod ern German nation state by the mid 18th century, resulting in some dramatic wars with Austria. Or my game as Portugal, where I colonized all of the carribean and South America.

Each game plays out distinctly different, and each time the game gives the player a different history to react to. It's just so fanastic in that regard-different than, say, EU2 or HoI2 where history is completely deterministic, but I actually wound up liking it more, especially after In Nomine came out and added just enough extra structure and bonuses to the game to make it really great.

Oh here's another dirty Paradox secret that I'm uncovering in the latter part of this week-EU:Rome with its $10 expansion is actually a pretty damn good game.
 
How does EU3 compare in complexity to the original EU and to Hearts of Iron II? I ask because I used to love the first EU so when I recently got back into PC gaming I picked up Hearts of Iron II. I expected to love it (WWII buff), but I honestly have found it a little too much so far and I really feel that the UI doesn't keep up with the complexity that it's trying to show on screen. So is EU3 closer to the original EU or has it moved in the more complex HoI2 direction?
 
I'm reading up on the Magna Nundi mod and whilst it does sound very appealing a lot of people seem to stress that it makes the game a lot more challenging. As an absolute novice I think I'll avoid it for now.

Thanks for the tip on starting with Portugal. Going to read that wiki now.
 
TheFightingFish said:
How does EU3 compare in complexity to the original EU and to Hearts of Iron II? I ask because I used to love the first EU so when I recently got back into PC gaming I picked up Hearts of Iron II. I expected to love it (WWII buff), but I honestly have found it a little too much so far and I really feel that the UI doesn't keep up with the complexity that it's trying to show on screen. So is EU3 closer to the original EU or has it moved in the more complex HoI2 direction?
Click to expand...

EU3 is much, much easier to manage than HoI2, mainly because you don't have to spend so much time and effort managing your armies.

It's still a complex game, but that complexity is matched by the game's elegance of ruleset. You'll always have stuff to do and decisions to make so you're not bored, but at the same time understanding the variables and tradeoffs of those decisions is easier than in a game like Hearts of Iron 2.
 
dionysus said:
Complete is 27.99 for all expansions. In Nomine alone is 19.99.
Click to expand...

Try to see if any local Gamestops still have it in stock. I got the complete version for $10 there about a month ago.
 
brain_stew said:
I'm reading up on the Magna Nundi mod and whilst it does sound very appealing a lot of people seem to stress that it makes the game a lot more challenging. As an absolute novice I think I'll avoid it for now. .
Click to expand...

Definitely, it's a mod for advanced EU3/Paradox vets. It also has a huge additional set of rules that, when compounded with EU3's already large ruleset, would overwhelm the newbie gamer and turn him off.

It's definitely worth looking at once you hit a point where the game gets too easy for your tastes. The built in controls to overly expansionist behavior, missionary conversion changes, and such help to reign in the usual manner of player abuse of the game's mechanics.
 
Screaming_Gremlin said:
Try to see if any local Gamestops still have it in stock. I got the complete version for $10 there about a month ago.
Click to expand...

It also goes for about that on ebay, even after shipping, for a brand new copy. Just another option for getting a hold of it for less than the DD price.
 
Munin said:
2) Magna Mundi - completely overhauls EU3's mechanics and adds in many events based on real history in the timeline. Many EU veterans were disappointed that with EU3, Paradox pretty much removed the complete history angle, making it a more or less bland affair with no connection whatsoever to historic events that previously dictated the flow of the game. If you're a new player, you might not mind it all that much, but even so, you should give this mod a try, because it makes the game a lot deeper and more fun (in my opinion anyway).
Click to expand...
I tried this and decided I didn't like it :P
It makes it way too hard for me.
Being a state in the Holy Roman Empire and actually expanding from time to time is next to impossible for a player of my limited skill.
 
I have yet to actually play in Europe in this game. I've been mainly doing Asian things :lol

I actually got it free wtih Civ Colonization. Have yet to play Colonization, yet :lol
 
dionysus said:
...that is complete gibberish to your average consolite japanophile pedo, but the effect is that it mimics reality...
Click to expand...

p3image.jpg


Oxymoron?

As for staying on topic, I got the demo a while back and since I havent really ever played Civ, this was a bit too much for me .. although I love the idea of playing it :)
 
zoku88 said:
I have yet to actually play in Europe in this game. I've been mainly doing Asian things :lol

I actually got it free wtih Civ Colonization. Have yet to play Colonization, yet :lol
Click to expand...
I've yet to play as anything other than a Dutch state :P
 
Me and Kabouter put this game to the test. We agreed playing a single player game with the same state (with Brabant, it's in Holland) and check what happens differently in each games. Last time I heard he was colonizing the world and I was still expanding my Dutch territory :lol. So our both games are totally different and I would bet if I choose Brabant again, it would turn out different again too. And there are so many nations to choose from :D. Endless possibilities.
 
Steeven said:
Me and Kabouter put this game to the test. We agreed playing a single player game with the same state (with Brabant, it's in Holland) and check what happens differently in each games. Last time I heard he was colonizing the world and I was still expanding my Dutch territory :lol. So our both games are totally different and I would bet if I choose Brabant again, it would turn out different again too. And there are so many nations to choose from :D. Endless possibilities.
Click to expand...
To be fair, back in the 15th century, where you are, I was still expanding in Europe too :P.
Also, I'm not so focused on the new world anymore. Recently took several provinces in Northern France and intend to expand further in Europe :P.
 
Fragamemnon said:
EU:Rome with its $10 expansion is actually a pretty damn good game.
Click to expand...

Is it really? I bought the game at launch and thought it was very disappointing. To be honest, it felt like an EU3 mod, bland gameplay and not a whole lot of historical flavor.
 
I started with EU1 which I LOVED because of the then "deep" diplomacy (actually the first game by them I played was Svea Rike). Something which has been lacking in many strategy games.

EU2 improved even further on this, I loved it even more. Then came Victoria Empire Under the Sun (I skipped Hears of Iron, I didn't like the limited time space and it concentrating too much on World War 2). Victoria is probably the best game Paradox has ever made.

I was late to join the EU3 band wagon because I really hated the 3D look, its horrendous and there is no need for it IMO. I miss the beautiful 2D bitmap.

However, after a while I came to it and its a very very nice game, once you get over the ugly looks. I haven't played it as much as the other games though because I couldn't break free from Victoria, but I will in the future. :)

I love how you can play these games without ever going to war. All can be done with diplomacy and development of your country.
Me and my brother played as Brazil (me) and Colombia (him) in a LAN game in Victoria, my brother was never involved in any war instead developing his country to an industrialised country. The only military action he was involved with was sending expeditionary forces to other countries. I however was pretty aggressive playing as Brazil, but I paid for it due to my bad-boy status, which makes diplomacy hard. :(
 
Basileus777 said:
Is it really? I bought the game at launch and thought it was very disappointing. To be honest, it felt like an EU3 mod, bland gameplay and not a whole lot of historical flavor.
Click to expand...

I'm a huge fan of the classical period and I totally agree that when it came out it lacked any resemblance to that period, and furthermore the game was just flat out half-done in most regards.

Now they have an system of titles, personal ambitions, and competing Senate parties that makes management of officeholders in a Republic FAR more interesting and demanding on the player (which is good in this case, since EU:Rome's biggest failiing IMO was not giving the player enough do to), adding in a neat internal political layer that the game was sorely missing. A lot of the totally wonky diplomatic issues are fixed and the addition of missions ala In Nomine also drastically helps keep you busy.

Take a look at this post:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393106

I remember when Rome came out, there was nothing approaching this sort of logical and interesting mechanics in the game. Vae Victis puts Rome out of the cellar and back into the middle of the pack of Paradox titles, from what little (I'm only a few hours into my current game) I've played so far.

It's also $10 instead of the $20 they were charging for EU3 expansions.
 
lol at thread title. More like 'thank you console 'hardcore' gamers for not showing interest in this game because then the series would've gotten consolized to better appeal to a broader audience'.
 
Alright, I've started into it and am fiddling with some colonization; how is the colonization range expanding? A few minutes ago my limit was at a range of 285 from a main port, now it's 300, what is it that's causing that to rise? I don't see anything in the manual that talks about this, at least not obviously.
 
I look upon EU with scornful distaste. But thats because I am a RTW modder, and know exactly why the TW series is just so so much better.
 
You do need a pretty good PC to get it running quickly. Mostly due to processor speed.

This is a very good series, but for EUIII to be as good as EUII, you do need to get both expansions.

If you buy this game, support Paradox by getting through Gamersgate. That way they get all the money, instead of giving a cut to Valve or Stardock.

(Nothing against Valve/Stardock- they're both good companies, but you support the dev 100% if you can- that's the way I feel- unless there's a really good sale)
 
Peronthious said:
Alright, I've started into it and am fiddling with some colonization; how is the colonization range expanding? A few minutes ago my limit was at a range of 285 from a main port, now it's 300, what is it that's causing that to rise? I don't see anything in the manual that talks about this, at least not obviously.
Click to expand...

Advisors and naval tech increase colonial range, if I recall right. I think some of the National Ideas do as well.
 
Just wanted to say that if any Swedes have been thinking about getting this game, Webhallen is selling EU3 Complete for only 119 kr (about $13,50) right now. :D
 
pseudocaesar said:
I look upon EU with scornful distaste. But thats because I am a RTW modder, and know exactly why the TW series is just so so much better.
Click to expand...

And how can you even compare those games? Total War is, uh, about war, 99% of the time. Actual combat is probably EU's weakest and most underdeveloped aspect.
 
Munin said:
2) Magna Mundi - completely overhauls EU3's mechanics and adds in many events based on real history in the timeline. Many EU veterans were disappointed that with EU3, Paradox pretty much removed the complete history angle, making it a more or less bland affair with no connection whatsoever to historic events that previously dictated the flow of the game. If you're a new player, you might not mind it all that much, but even so, you should give this mod a try, because it makes the game a lot deeper and more fun (in my opinion anyway).
Click to expand...
How you can possibly recommend Magna Mundi to new players i beyond me. That mod can be great fun if you know what you are doing, but if you are new then chances are you don't and the game will definitely punish you for that. Personally I usually don't play with MM either, because I prefer to be able to get away with a few stupid moves every now and then :P
 
Speaking of questions, what are the rules for Terra CantSeeItLatinWord? I am trying to force annexation of Portugal and Aragon, but they have one colony that I have 25 carracks around and 5,000 troops waiting to invade, but it is whited over. I've tried putting conquistadors and explorers in the transports, to no avail. Even switched my national idea to Explore a New World or whatever it is.
 
pseudocaesar said:
I look upon EU with scornful distaste. But thats because I am a RTW modder, and know exactly why the TW series is just so so much better.
Click to expand...

In combat yes they aren't even in the same league but in diplomacy, historical detail, scope, economics and a lot of other stuff hell no. And that is coming from someone who loves TW games.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

is the Zelda OoT dungeons just as complicated today?
35
576
Heimdall_Xtreme replied
  • Featured
Europa Universalis V |OT| Now begins your empire of DLCs
2
57
3K
StereoVsn replied
A new Katamari Damacy just released and people barely notice, Europa Universalis V in two weeks and it's barely registering, game marketing is crateri
22
591
DarkShadowXI replied
Paradox announces Europa Universalis 5
2
62
3K
Emedan replied
Microsoft says that adding the ability to move the taskbar in Windows is very complicated and would require too much effort from its engineers.
2 3
111
963
kikkis replied
Top Bottom