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Beginner DSLR AGE: What to start with?

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The_Inquisitor

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Edit: Canon Rebel XS has arrived. Going to go experiment for a bit. Will post pics later.









Hey photography GAF you have a new member interested in getting into photography. I have been looking at the following models. D40/D60 , D80, and the XSI.

I plan to use this camera for taking everyday photos and sports pictures at my college games. Further along the road I would love to take some amazing shots that I can post on the walls of my apartment next year. I am looking for the most features for my buck, while not sacrificing too much quality. (ie I wouldn't mind auto focus, live LCD is not as big a deal to me)

Also what accessories would you recommend. Thanks again!
 
I've only used the XSi and it seemed nice enough. Taking sports pics your probably gonna want some kinda 70 - 300 or 400mm equiv zoom lens to get decent shots of stuff on the field. Extra battery packs/cards are a must. Also a good powerful flash for indoor/low light stuff. Tripod, on and on...
 
"Sports pictures". Indoors, outdoors, lighting..? You're heading into expensive lens territory now.
 
giga said:
"Sports pictures". Indoors, outdoors, lighting..? You're heading into expensive lens territory now.
Click to expand...

Don't tell me that. :lol Any recommendations on body though? I am thinking of getting the XSi with stock lens kit.
 
i would get the a XS or even a used XT or XTI on craigslist. spend the money on a good lens. do not get the kit lens. the 18-55mm is okay but save up some money and get a better lens, like the canon 50mm 1.8, or the tamron 17-50mm 2.8. i heavily recommend getting used lens on craigslist. you can find lens and stuff for like 30-60% off.

read up as much as possible. i recommend this site

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13

oh yeah, take as many pictures as you can. I have four different photo events this weekend alone.
 
The more I read about the XSi the more it seems to be a pretty damn good body. It seems I can get one new with the stock lens for 489 off of amazon. So would you recommend getting just the body instead and buying that 1.8 lens?
 
The_Inquisitor said:
The more I read about the XSi the more it seems to be a pretty damn good body. It seems I can get one new with the stock lens for 489 off of amazon. So would you recommend getting just the body instead and buying that 1.8 lens?
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Yes and no.

For the most part, my XSi lives with the 50mm on it - it's lighter than my previous superzoom camera, it takes some amazing pictures (the ability to do some extreme depth of field is a big plus for me), and it's cheap. All good qualities for a lens.

However, I also have an 18-200mm superzoom lens, and it's by far the more versatile for situations like sporting events. It gives you the ability to capture the moment as a whole with wide angle, but then zoom in when required. It obviously isn't as consistent in terms of quality at the long end of the zoom, but it suits my needs well.

The kit lens gives you some of that versatility, but not quite as much - I actually picked up my XSi in a kit with the 18-200 (which is a $500+ lens), and I'm really happy with its performance where required.
 
i see the XSi for $640 with the kit lens and $580 for the body only on Amazon. if you can get it for $489, then hell yeah, buy it.

the canon 1.8 is a good lens but its a fixed focus, meaning you can't zoom in or out. maybe you should just get the kit lens and practice it for a couple of months until you can afford another lens. plenty of people have taken great pictures of it.

but when i moved on to the tamron 17-50mm 2.8, holy crap, there was a big difference
 
sarcastor said:
i see the XSi for $640 with the kit lens and $580 for the body only on Amazon. if you can get it for $489, then hell yeah, buy it.

the canon 1.8 is a good lens but its a fixed focus, meaning you can't zoom in or out. maybe you should just get the kit lens and practice it for a couple of months until you can afford another lens. plenty of people have taken great pictures of it.

but when i moved on to the tamron 17-55mm 2.8, holy crap, there was a big difference
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I think I saw it on sale @ Fry's for 549. (Body w/ stock lens)

Heh my parents might kills me, but I think it's time I stepped up to the big leagues. I still have a lot to learn however, but I am sure it will come with time.
 
The 18-55mm, while not the best lens in the world on the canons, for the price is pretty damn good. If you went out to find something of equal or better quality for a similar range, you will not find something for $100 or less (which is basically what it costs over the body).

Yes, you can use the $100 you saved to buy something better, but it will cost you. The Canon EF 50mm F/1.8 which has been mentioned is a great lens. Can be had used for $50~$100 as well. I'd look into sites such as fredmiranda.com and peruse their used section. Lenses hold their value well and most buyers/sellers on there are reputable (ie. have done quite a few transactions) so at the very least, I can recommend using that over say craigslist or ebay.

What lenses you'll want will ultimately depend on what you want to focus on for photography. However, for a zoom that's reasonable in price (relatively speaking) and great for daytime sports, I'd highly suggest accomodating a Canon EF 70-200 F4L into your kit. Super sharp, amazing color saturation, and for an L lens (Canon's professional line), it's very affordable. I paid $375 used or something.

Here's a sample shot of it that was one of my first photos with it and might be representative of what you might be taking photos of (except, replace dogs with humans). Also, this is with the original Digital Rebel (back from 2004), so you may get further improved results.

70-200f4l_sample.jpg


It has no IS, but aside from that, it's really a great lens. (btw, image is cropped for a sample print)

also, a sample from the 18-55mm kit lens

18-55_sample.jpg
 
The kit lens the XSi comes with isn't bad at all. It has IS even. It's not the best lens in the world, but it's definitely a good one to tool around with.
 
Well I am primarily looking at the XS and D60 now. Seems amazon is going to be my cheapest bet. Any last words of advice on which to consider /pros and cons?
 
Buckethead said:
This reminds me, has there been a GAF Photog thread lately?
Click to expand...
Well there's the The Official Camera Equipment Megathread, the GAF Photography 2009 - Q3 thread, GAF Photography Assignment Thread #72 - Faces, and the GAF Photography Workshop - July: Feedback, Crit & Discussion thread.

Also, a second on the "the kit lens may not be the greatest, but you might as well get it if this is your first DSLR" recommendation. Also a second on the "pick up the 50mm F/1.8 with the pocket change you have left" recommendation.
 
Question, why does everyone say don't get the kit lens, get a 50mm instead? The kit lens allows for a bit of zoom. Am I missing something?

Edit: oops meant 50
 
koam said:
Question, why does everyone say don't get the kit lens, get a 50mm instead? The kit lens allows for a bit of zoom. Am I missing something?

Edit: oops meant 50
Click to expand...

The Kit lens + 50mm f/1.8 is a great little combo and it's what I've been shooting with since picking up my DSLR a year ago. I wouldn't go with one over the other (though my preference is the 50mm, these days), simply for the versatility the combonation offers for the price.
 
koam said:
Question, why does everyone say don't get the kit lens, get a 50mm instead? The kit lens allows for a bit of zoom. Am I missing something?

Edit: oops meant 50
Click to expand...

It's called projection. They hardly read the OP and just assume the guy who created the topic ought to have the same needs as they do.

Of course a bit of zoom would be more useful to a beginner than a fixed lens.
 
Alright guys I am going to get the ....


Canon XS from Amazon. At 500 it seems like a great deal! Now I need a good beginners bag (nothing really fancy just enough to hold maybe an additional lens). I'd like to order it all from amazon if possible. Should I also get a tripod at this point? Should I buy a UV filter for my lens too? Thanks for your help again guys.
 
Personally, I think you're going to grow out of a D60 real quick.

The range of styles you're hoping to get into calls for a broad range of lenses; that's why an earlier poster mentioned it could be a very expensive exercise. The quality of your photos is (apart from your own skill) less about the body and more about your choice of lenses. A cheap super-zoom like an 18-200mm is only affordable because it's a slow lens, which in turn can be a major limiter to the kind of results you're able to produce.

If you give up a little reach for, say, a fast prime, you'll find that you'll develop much faster and your pictures will be that much better.

That said, if you're on a limited budget, an 18-200mm is a good place to start. But I'd strongly suggest picking up a D90 or a D80 (lots pf grat deals around). The D60 buries all of its manual options in a convoluted menu system and it drove me up the wall when I tested it. The D80 and D90 keep pretty much every manual and auto function you'll need on tye body as a button.
 
ScientificNinja said:
Personally, I think you're going to grow out of a D60 real quick.

The range of styles you're hoping to get into calls for a broad range of lenses; that's why an earlier poster mentioned it could be a very expensive exercise. The quality of your photos is (apart from your own skill) less about the body and more about your choice of lenses. A cheap super-zoom like an 18-200mm is only affordable because it's a slow lens, which in turn can be a major limiter to the kind of results you're able to produce.

If you give up a little reach for, say, a fast prime, you'll find that you'll develop much faster and your pictures will be that much better.

That said, if you're on a limited budget, an 18-200mm is a good place to start. But I'd strongly suggest picking up a D90 or a D80 (lots pf grat deals around). The D60 buries all of its manual options in a convoluted menu system and it drove me up the wall when I tested it. The D80 and D90 keep pretty much every manual and auto function you'll need on tye body as a button.
Click to expand...

Getting a XS. :)
 
Sorry to piggyback on this but I was about to spend 1000-1500 on a setup.
Want the XSI with the kit lens, nice bag and a zoom lens. I live on a lake and want to do some nice zoom shots for the birds I can't get close enough to and a regular lens for everyday shooting, puppy pics, family etc. Suggestions on my bag and second lens is appreciated.
 
sullyj said:
Sorry to piggyback on this but I was about to spend 1000-1500 on a setup.
Want the XSI with the kit lens, nice bag and a zoom lens. I live on a lake and want to do some nice zoom shots for the birds I can't get close enough to and a regular lens for everyday shooting, puppy pics, family etc. Suggestions on my bag and second lens is appreciated.
Click to expand...

A co-worker I know bought an XSi with the kit lens and the 55-250 4.0-5.6 IS. He showed me some of his pics and I was pretty impressed. For around $250USD I think it's decent enough for a starting zoom lens. On an XSi, the crop factor would give you a focal length of 88-400.

I think ponying up more for a zoom will get you better build, resolution, and color, but we're talking a lot more bucks and more weight to your camera bag. I would see the 70-300 4.0-5.6 IS as the next step up, but it's twice as expensive as the 55-250 and I'm not sure the IQ is that much better.
 
The_Inquisitor said:
Getting a XS. :)
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Congratulations.

The shutter life of the Canon low end models have been released recently (for some reason Canon has been secretive about them).

Canon XS: 100,000 acutations
Canon XSi: 100,000 acutations
Canon T1i: 100,000 acutations

Compared to the older "inexpensive" rebel models, it's shutter life is double that of the XT and the XTi and equivalent to the midrange 30D, 40D, and 50D.

Basically, you are getting a very reliable camera.
 
Hcoregamer00 said:
Congratulations.

The shutter life of the Canon low end models have been released recently (for some reason Canon has been secretive about them).

Canon XS: 100,000 acutations
Canon XSi: 100,000 acutations
Canon T1i: 100,000 acutations

Compared to the older "inexpensive" rebel models, it's shutter life is double that of the XT and the XTi and equivalent to the midrange 30D, 40D, and 50D.

Basically, you are getting a very reliable camera.
Click to expand...

That's great. I am about to order right now. Now do I get 2nd day delivery or standard 5 day.

I've been wanting a Nikon D40 for a while now. Would dropping an additional $75 for the XS be a better option?
Click to expand...

I was more impressed with the XS.
 
you can get a used kit lens for like $40-60 on craigslist. much better than paying $100+ for a new one. the canon 50mm f/1.8 is great, but if you don't know what you're doing, there's no point in getting it.

you'd better off experimenting with the kit lens for a month or two. learn how to use the aperture, iso and shutter speed setting. THEN move on to the 55-250mm or 18-200mm.

take as many pictures as you can. that means not only bringing it with you everywhere you go, but take photo excursions. find other people in your area, or friends that are into photograhy

and by no means do you buy a point and shoot camera. even if it has manual controls. N-E-V-E-R. Not if you want to be serious about photography.
 
Oh btw B&H has the XS for 504 USD with free 5 day ground shipping. I am going to see if I can get some kind of combo deal with a bag. Otherwise I will pick up one I saw for 20 dollars at Fry's.

Edit: ORDERED! I decided to just pick up the UV lens when I buy my bag on Monday. For the XS it's 58mm right??
 
Congrats! Take pics, post'em here (or preferably, the quarterly photo threads), participate in the weekly-ish assignment threads, and do learn more about exposure.

Get a flickR or something and post it to us (join the GAF photo group!).
 
mrkgoo said:
Congrats! Take pics, post'em here (or preferably, the quarterly photo threads), participate in the weekly-ish assignment threads, and do learn more about exposure.

Get a flickR or something and post it to us (join the GAF photo group!).
Click to expand...

Will do! I plan to first just set it on manual and go crazy with it for a bit. I'll then look at my pictures, and read the instructions. :p
 
Now begin your internet quest of looking at expensive yet totally unneeded lenses that make you weep into upheld palms.
 
The_Inquisitor said:
Will do! I plan to first just set it on manual and go crazy with it for a bit. I'll then look at my pictures, and read the instructions. :p
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about your photography background, but the pictures are the important part. If you don't know much about exposure, then I'd suggest leaving the manual mode for toying around when you have time, and get into taking pictures. The more technical side can get you frustrated if you're not expecting it.
 
The_Inquisitor said:
Well I am primarily looking at the XS and D60 now. Seems amazon is going to be my cheapest bet. Any last words of advice on which to consider /pros and cons?
Click to expand...
I am in pretty much the same boat. Anyone have any insight?

I'm a total photo-nub. Will be taking classes. Mostly interested in taking outdoorsy, nature stills.
 
mrkgoo said:
I'm not sure about your photography background, but the pictures are the important part. If you don't know much about exposure, then I'd suggest leaving the manual mode for toying around when you have time, and get into taking pictures. The more technical side can get you frustrated if you're not expecting it.
Click to expand...

Alright. Took your advice. I have nearly 0 photography experience so I expect to get chewed up a bit here. :lol Here are some quick shots I took.

3819233184_20de2b274c.jpg
 
The_Inquisitor said:
Alright. Took your advice. I have nearly 0 photography experience so I expect to get chewed up a bit here. :lol Here are some quick shots I took.

3819233184_20de2b274c.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks like the Flash fired. First Rule of SLR Club, on body (camera) flash doesn't exist! Put your camera on Tv or Av mode and just mess around. Most of the fully automated settings will fire the flash.
 
BlueTsunami said:
Looks like the Flash fired. First Rule of SLR Club, on body (camera) flash doesn't exist! Put your camera on Tv or Av mode and just mess around. Most of the fully automated settings will fire the flash.
Click to expand...

Yeah saw that just now. I swear I turned it off. :( I am moving back on campus tomorrow, so I will have a lot more photo opportunities then. I am heavily interested in landscape/nature shots at the moment.
 
BlueTsunami said:
Looks like the Flash fired. First Rule of SLR Club, on body (camera) flash doesn't exist! Put your camera on Tv or Av mode and just mess around. Most of the fully automated settings will fire the flash.
Click to expand...


i thought the first rule was underexposure > overexposure...
 
I have a copy of Photoshop CS4 but was a bit overwhelmed by all the options. I instead loaded an overexposed picture into iPhoto, and was able to clean it up significantly with ease. I will probably stick with iPhoto for now until I start getting more advanced.

Due partially to your suggestion, I picked up a Canon XS, too. Just arrived today from Amazon :)
Click to expand...

Grats man! I am loving my XS so far. Can't wait to go out and take pictures tomorrow. The SMU campus is beautiful. I hope my 8GB card is enough. :lol
 
BlueTsunami said:
Looks like the Flash fired. First Rule of SLR Club, on body (camera) flash doesn't exist! Put your camera on Tv or Av mode and just mess around. Most of the fully automated settings will fire the flash.
Click to expand...

Hints from a fellow DSLR beginner, to expand on BlueTsunami's tip.

Low lighting hints

Tv mode
-Making the shutter slower will allow for more light
-Half the speed means that you will get twice as much light (ie going from 1/100 to 1/50th of a second)
-The kit lens is hand-holdable to 1/4th of a second thanks to the great IS
-At lower shutter speed, action shots turn the person moving into a blur (which can be used to great effect)

Av Mode
-The lower the f-stop, the more light the camera will let in.
-Half the f-stop means that you will get FOUR TIMES as much light (ie going from f/5.6 to f/2.8)
-The kit lens probably has a dynamic f-stop of 3.5 - 5.6, keep the lens at the lowest zoom to get the best f-stop (f/3.5)

Using ISO to your best
-The consumer model SLR's (XS, XSi, and T1i) are superb to around 400.
-Bump your ISO up if you want to make the Tv or Av mode freeze motion better at low lighting
-The ISO increments DOUBLE the amount of light you can let in. For example, if the picture is great at 1/20th of second in low lighting at ISO 100, you can bump it up to 1/40th of a second in ISO 200. You freeze motion better with a higher shutter speed.
-What you have to worry about in bumping the ISO is noise. Noise is what makes a picture grainy, it can be used for great artistic effect. It is pretty nonexistent in ISO 100, 200, and 400. It starts becoming noticeable in ISO 800 and it becomes really obvious in ISO 1600.

I hope you enjoy the tips :D
 
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