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Angel's Egg : There is no 'WTF did I just watch' large enough.

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Jex

Member
When you sit down and watch a Mamoru Oshii movie you don't really expect everything in the movie to be super clear - they tend to be dense, slow and confusing at times. But still, I think, well exectued stories (for the most part.) Yet after watching all of Angel's Egg I really can't say I have the slighest clue what was going on - theres very little else in the movie but symbolism. No apparent plot, characters, rhyme or reason. It was amazingly gorgeous though.

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Does anyone know what the heck was going on in this movie? Apart from what appeared to be lots of Christian imagery.
 

Branduil

Member
My theory is that Oshii once had his Easter eggs stolen.

It's a good movie, though. More people should watch this, as well as Beautiful Dreamer.
 

Mature

Member
I didn't know that Yoshitaka Amano handled the art, though looking at it now it's pretty evident. And just pretty.
 

Soma

Member
Yeah this film is on my list of older anime I need to watch.

It seems like one of those films I might need to be in a certain... 'mood' to sit down and watch though.
 

Narag

Member
Think I'll give this another go this weekend as I couldn't quite grasp what went on nor was I awake enough to attempt to this past weekend. Beautiful movie though.

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Suairyu

Banned
It didn't feel disjointed to me. The imagery, music, atmosphere, narrative, and dialogue all came together to form a cohesive and complete artistic statement. What elements felt out-of-place to you?
I didn't say anything felt out of place. And yes, it all comes together for a complete artistic statement. That doesn't mean it's a good film. It doesn't work as a film for me.

I mean, Jehixus in the OP said it best - "theres very little else in the movie but symbolism". It may be a cohesive artistic statement, but what is the statement actually saying? What are we being shown beyond imagery centered around birth, life and death? Where is our arc? Character, tone or narrative, I struggled to find one.

It is a sequence of answers, the director not letting you see the thematic questions that provoked them. Watching the film, I can but glide across its surface. I try to pick apart the detail, to ask "what is this showing me? What is this telling me? Why is this here?" and nothing comes from it.

The strength of the film medium is that it can demonstrate the passage of time unlike any other, yet that strength is not exploited in the slightest here. The effect is like that of going through an artist's gallery of images all centered around the same theme. These are not metaphors and images that use the film medium to convey something. They are images better absorbed at length, contemplated, wrestled with on the viewer's on time. That is not how a film works, unless the director specifically wanted the viewer to have his finger hovering over the 'pause' button through-out the viewing.

I guess I just feel the entire thing was done with the mindset and method of a painter, rather than a director. Even with the haunting soundtrack.

Fair, but you still haven't explained why you think it's a bad movie. Or mentioned a single poor aspect of the film, really.

edit - I don't mean to come off as hostile - though it's probably inevitable given how I feel about the subject - as I'm genuinely curious to hear your thoughts.
But that's the problem. I don't think a single element of the film is poor. In fact, I think near enough every element is sublime. Amano's gorgeous artwork. The haunting music. The minimal narrative. The constant repetition of egg/birth/death imagery.

It just doesn't work as a film.

Hopefully the first part of this post expands on that a little. It's extremely difficult to talk about. I may have to re-watch it to crystalise my thoughts. It's been about two years since my last re-watch of the film.

Did you just compare an obscure anime art film to Avatar?
I compared a film to a film. Let's not be snobs.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
I loved it when I first watched it years ago. I believe I've only ever watched it twice since and I still hardly understand it.

And my god what a bump.
 

CFMOORE!

Member
haven't watched anime in a decade, didn't know what this thread was about, but after reading the OP i really gotta check this out.

and holy shit, didn't even notice this thread is almost two years old. amazing it went that long and no one ever replied to the OP till now.
 
I didn't say anything felt out of place. And yes, it all comes together for a complete artistic statement. That doesn't mean it's a good film. It doesn't work as a film for me.

I mean, Jehixus in the OP said it best - "theres very little else in the movie but symbolism". It may be a cohesive artistic statement, but what is the statement actually saying? What are we being shown beyond imagery centered around birth, life and death? Where is our arc? Character, tone or narrative, I struggled to find one.

It is a sequence of answers, the director not letting you see the thematic questions that provoked them. Watching the film, I can but glide across its surface. I try to pick apart the detail, to ask "what is this showing me? What is this telling me? Why is this here?" and nothing comes from it.

The strength of the film medium is that it can demonstrate the passage of time unlike any other, yet that strength is not exploited in the slightest here. The effect is like that of going through an artist's gallery of images all centered around the same theme. These are not metaphors and images that use the film medium to convey something. They are images better absorbed at length, contemplated, wrestled with on the viewer's on time. That is not how a film works, unless the director specifically wanted the viewer to have his finger hovering over the 'pause' button through-out the viewing.

I guess I just feel the entire thing was done with the mindset and method of a painter, rather than a director. Even with the haunting soundtrack.

First off, Angel's Egg was released direct-to-video, so I suspect Oshii expected that his audience would, if not constantly be pausing, at least rewatch the film several times to pull out its meaning. The pacing and overall structure is unusual for a film, but does use the passage of time in a contemplative manner that justifies its existence as a film instead of a series of paintings. Not to mention the glorious animation. Elements such as the two characters' reactions to each other wouldn't have had the same impact in still form.

Second, there is definitely meaning behind the symbolism, even if it is obscure at first viewing. I think the reason it is so obscure is because Oshii was wrestling with issues of faith and doubt that he had difficulty articulating in verbal form. Perhaps he even had difficulty figuring out what exactly his own position was. At any rate, this is one work of anime where the Christian imagery actually means something and isn't just exotic window-dressing like Evangelion, so some knowledge of that background will help when interpreting it.

Third, there is an arc going on with the progression of the two main characters and their relationship with each other and the titular egg. Through how the woman and the man treat the egg, we move from complete trust to disillusionment to a final loss of faith. I won't pretend to understand everything - I've only watched it once after all. But the basic meaning of the film seems clear enough. Oshii once had faith that the Christian religion reflected something real and vital but now it has been emptied of meaning and he can only see behind it nothingness, a void. Perhaps that loss of meaning which itself is the meaning is what you are sensing in your negative reaction.

If there was another movie Angel's Egg reminds me of in its pacing and mood, it would be Solaris. Though maybe I was just impressed by the final shot.
 

Suairyu

Banned
I'll look to re-watch it sometime in the future, then bump this thread again. I'm certainly not above re-evaluating my opinions on things. But even with the explanation of the imagery you guys have given, I still half suspect this is art gallery style symbolism than film symbolism. I shall see.
 

Zekes!

Member
Holy shit, I forgot all about this movie. I remember finding it on TV one night, and ended up watching the whole thing. My reactions were in line with everyone else's.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Sounds like the kind of movie that panders to a niche of pseudo intellectuals quite well, while simultaneously causing everyone else to fall asleep through interminably poor pacing.

Like an overly stuffy animated slide show of dreary drug induced religious iconography.
 

Branduil

Member
It's certainly easier to parse if you have a working knowledge of Christian symbolism and imagery. Though I think even without that the the basic pessimism of the movie is clear.

Sounds like the kind of movie that panders to a niche of pseudo intellectuals quite well, while simultaneously causing everyone else to fall asleep through interminably poor pacing.

Like an overly stuffy animated slide show of dreary drug induced religious iconography.

Well you're entitled to your opinion but it's not going to be worth much to most people if you haven't even watched it.
 

Zekes!

Member
this movie actually kind of rocked

or at least watching it at 12 am in bed with the lights off fit the atmosphere perfectly
 

Zekes!

Member
Public access television?

That or you saw In the Aftermath.



They thought it'd be more popular & accessible if they spliced in some live-action footage that made it even weirder. lollercopters.

No, I think it was on one of our cartoon channels YTV a few years ago in the middle of the night. It definitely wasn't the In the Aftermath version, because there wasn't any live-action scenes.

Bizarre.
 

Amagon

Member
Pics remind me of The End of Evangelion. I'm intrigued because Oshii is cool in my book so I guess I'm gonna have to check this out myself now.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
Because none of those elements in isolation create a good film.
To be fair, film is film, you haft to appreciate a film for what it is, not what it isn't, there isn't any clear-cut rules for what a film should be like, of course they are certain standards in how one executes the elements of a particular film, and that's how you differentiate a bad film from a good film I guess, but asides from that eh.
It's not really like End of Eva at all. It is the Oshii-est of all Oshii movies, though.
Pfft but it's the "spiritual" sequel to EoE!
oh wait I stole that idea from pizzaroll
 

Zekes!

Member
Huh. Canada's just that awesome, I guess.

I did a quick Google and couldn't find any mention of it ever airing in Canada on TV in general...

Maybe that one night in my bed I slipped in to an alternate dimension where I was granted a viewing of this film?

This whole thing coupled with the bizarreness of the film is giving me a really eerie feeling.
 

Zekes!

Member
Unless you're referring to attractive women, no. It's his portraiture that I absolutely adore. The way he creates delicate beauty, even in menacing, non-delicate characters.

I have his artbook "Dawn: The Worlds of Final Fantasy" which collects his art for the first six games, it's fantastic


Maybe you never even saw it in the first place?!

I think you need to watch it again to confirm.

I saw it for sure man, for sure. I'm bugging out.

I def wanna rewatch it though.
 

Suairyu

Banned
I have his artbook "Dawn: The Worlds of Final Fantasy" which collects his art for the first six games, it's fantastic
Yeah, I've had the opportunity to have a quality hour with most of his art books thanks to friends and bought one myself, not sure which one. Stunning work. Just the sort of thing you want to sit down with by a fire, glass of wine on hand and some good classical music in the background.
 
Just watched this a few days ago knowing nothing about it so this thread popping up was quite the coincidence.

I'm very much with Suairyu on this. I felt that the atmosphere, artwork, music and minimalist tone were all brilliant. And from that perspective I think it can be appreciated as an art form. However as film with any kind of logical, coherent narrative, character arcs/development or any "story" I just think it fails.

I mean I won't pretend to fully understand it and I could certainly muse over every tiny detail looking for meaning intended or not, but I just don't think we were given enough to deduce anything that makes sense of everything in a cohesive way, all we can do is muse over the symbolism of individual scenes/imagery.

Things just seem to "happen" in the film for no real reason at all, perhaps their meaning is all symbolic or even just there for the sake of being there and causing the audience to wonder but for me that doesn't make a good film. I think the best films with heavy symbolism still work as a logical story on the surface level and the themes/imagery are there for a deeper/grander meaning to the story.

But with Angel's Egg it's just the symbolism with nothing to anchor it into a comprehensible plot and as such I can't say it succeeds at being a "complete" film. It's certainly an experience and one I would recommend for it's positive artistic elements, but a good "film" it is not. Like Suairyu said it is more like an art gallery of great pieces.
 
I HAS FOOD AND MOVIE

LETS GO WEIRD ARTHOUSE FILM

Edit: so that was weird. I like it a lot. I love the feeling I got of absolute bewilderment. I need to watch this again soon. It's disorienting and I just really enjoyed. However, I feel extremely numb now and so I need to get some feeling back before I can describe it more cohesively.
 

Erigu

Member
There are 4 artbooks (well, artbook, storyboard, novelization, and prequel thing) for this movie, and some day I will own them all.
Something I just realized/remembered about the "novelization": officially, it's actually considered the original work. The book doesn't say anything about being based on an OVA, whereas the OVA actually says it's based on the book, in its opening credits.

"Officially", anyway. Probably a bit the Strider Hiryû games were based on the comics. "Officially".
 

TimeKillr

Member
I saw it in a film festival a few years ago, and the entire audience just left with a huge "wtf was that?"

I loved it, but had no clue what it was. It's so incredibly atmospheric and beautiful!
 
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