• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

LTTP - Riven: The Sequel to Myst

luka

Loves Robotech S1
2bBvk.jpg


Jesus christ. I wrote up a huge multi-paragraph post on this, then I get distracted by something shiny and close the browser. I'm such a fucking idiot. Here is the angry, frustration-laced condensed edition of LTTP Riven. It will have significantly more swearing than the original.

So, I finished Riven this weekend. Goddamn. It was probably the best adventure game I've ever played...and I've played a lot of adventure games. I love stuff like Monkey Island and The Longest Journey, but to me, this is the best example of the purest and more intimate type of adventure. No dialogue trees, no insane and unpredictable item combinations. Just you, your wits, and the world around you.

So 15 years ago I beat Myst like everyone else with a pulse and was super hyped for Riven. For some dumb reason I never get it, and end up borrowing my friend's Playstation copy but never finish because it was missing a disc but that didn't really matter because I was too dumb to finish it anyway. 3 years ago I bought the 10th anniversary dvd set with myst and exile. Myst and Riven are basically DOA and won't work on any of my hardware. So I play Exile and it's...okay. I guess. Whatever. So Riven sits on my shelf and mocks me for a few years then something snaps and 4 days ago I'm like okay, time to get this shit working! Since I'm not completely stupid anymore I resort to virtualization with XP and VMware and BAM. Works perfectly. Thank fucking god. (No thanks to Microsoft making VPC and XP mode incompatible with Win7 home. Pricks.)

I went into this straight up old-school. No internet, no guides. Just pencil and graph paper. I felt so hardcore. Basically after a few hours I'm thinking, "motherfucker. I let the best damn adventure game go unplayed for 13 FREAKING YEARS." Yeah, it's just an interactive slideshow. Whatever, shut up. It's also the most cohesive, tangible, and lifelike worlds I've ever experienced in a game. EVER. Every single character, every strange device or abstract machine, every symbol has some profound connection with the rest of the world and inexorably, your interaction with the world. You have to play this as though you are actually there. Videogame logic doesn't apply. Early on I found a flimly looking locked wooden door. Videogame logic told me I'd have to find some arbitrary means of unlocking it later instead of just kicking the thing down or crawling through the huge gaping hole in the bottom. Well shit, I come back later and learn that's exactly what you're supposed to do. Just basic stuff like closing doors behind you (something you don't usually do in games) frequently reveals important details or side passages.

What really impressed me about the game was how encompassing the design was. There are only 2 major objectives and related puzzles to achieve them, but the puzzles are huge, sprawling, nonlinear affairs and were so ingrained in the world and culture that just by playing the game the 'right' way - exploring, examining everything and making logical deductions and connections - I was already taking the major steps to solving them before I even knew the full details of what they were. Every symbol, every sound, every unique visual indicator and color must be noted. Nothing is superfluous. A small counting game/contraption in the corner of an empty schoolhouse was enough to teach me the symbols used in the unique base-25 counting system and solve later problems. Just stopping and listening to the animals and insects buzzing around...just absorbing your surroundings will enable you to make important connections later on. You don't come face to face with the villain for a while, but you feel his presence from the very beginning. Every location, character, geographical oddity, strange device or abstract machine is somehow influenced or affected by him and figuring out his connection to everything is a huge part of the game's "big puzzle." The whole time I was playing I was just amazed. It's so rare to see the kind of design that takes everything from the story, the art, and the gameplay into such a cohesive whole. Everyone talks about SotC or Flower, but this is art. I feel an immediate need to start up a new game and just try to find all the little details I missed the first time through.

Myst got ugly and lost it's visual appeal real quick, but Riven is timeless. It's still just as amazing to look at as it was a decade ago. Sure it could probably be done pretty well in real time these days, but that's besides the point. It's not about the technology, it's about the artistry. The world looks and feels like a real place. The sound design is stunning, and full of life and detail. Even the music is flawless, eclectic mix of tribal and orchestral sounds that feels really tranquil and subdued and pops up at just the right points. The Mass Effect composer did the scores for the later games and they're not bad, but dramatic crescendos and choruses sound hilariously out of place in a game like this.

Anyway, I finished it. I have stacks of graph paper full of symbols, charts, notes, coordinates and maps to prove it. It was one of the best gaming experiences I've had in a long time and it really makes me feel like the industry has lost something amazing when games like this disappeared. It's really sad that Cyan left the series to lesser developers in order to chase their silly MMOA pipe dream. This thread probably won't get much attention because people see these games as forgotten and irrelevant relics, but I don't care. It's the best adventure game I've ever played and I had to write something about it. If it makes just one person re/discover this game it'll be worth typing the whole damn thing up twice.

*dies*
 

Clevinger

Member
luka said:
Videogame logic told me I'd have to find some arbitrary means of unlocking it later instead of just kicking the thing down or crawling through the huge gaping hole in the bottom. Well shit, I come back later and learn that's exactly what you're supposed to do. Just basic stuff like closing doors behind you (something you don't usually do in games) frequently reveals important details or side passages.

I remember that part. The giant bottom that you can crawl under is on par with the usual inanity of video game logic. Why is there a door, hell, a locked door, when it doesn't even reach the ground?
 

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
luka said:
If it makes just one person re/discover this game it'll be worth typing the whole damn thing up twice.
*dies*

I was never into adventure games but I am thinking of giving them a go. Who knows, I might discover one of the best games I will ever play, just like I did when I started playing RPGs and RTS' games. Its cheap on steam too.
I guess it wont run on Windows 7 64 bit, or is the steam version different?
 

mclem

Member
kittoo said:
I was never into adventure games but I am thinking of giving them a go. Who knows, I might discover one of the best games I will ever play, just like I did when I started playing RPGs and RTS' games. Its cheap on steam too.
I guess it wont run on Windows 7 64 bit, or is the steam version different?

Can't speak for the Steam edition, but on GoG:

http://www.gog.com/en/forum/myst_series/myst_and_riven_xp_64_bit_compatibility


My one overwhelming memory of Riven is that it basically had one huge but awesome puzzle (the marble grid). I'm aware that's a little unfair because there were several others, but that one alone stuck in my memory as entirely boiling down to testing whether you understand the world itself, which is a pretty cool way to create a problem.
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Clevinger said:
I remember that part. The giant bottom that you can crawl under is on par with the usual inanity of video game logic. Why is there a door, hell, a locked door, when it doesn't even reach the ground?

I don't know. I've seen doors or gates like that in real life. It was probably locked in a hurry in some halfhearted attempt to keep people (or you) out of the 'temple.'

It's a silly and ineffectual gate, but that's not the point. In any other game it would be impassable if not for some arbitrary solution. They put that door right at the beginning of the game to make it clear that if it looks like you can get past something in an obvious way, you probably can, and if you don't realize that or even make the attempt, you're not getting anywhere.

mclem said:

The GoG edition is supposed to be the best compatibility-wise, but I've heard some people still have problems with it. The sad thing is neither steam or GoG have the DVD version. You don't have to worry about disc swapping anyway, but the DVD has much better fmv quality.
 

Lafazar

Member
I agree wholeheartedly. Riven is a well thought game, a believable, living, breathing world and above all a great experience, but you have to put something into it. It requires patience and attention. And there is no violence (well, almost none). I guess that's why it is not a more popular game which is a real shame.

I recommend reading the first two books as well. Myst, Riven and the first two Books combine to make a great and original story. I felt everything after that was, while still a nice and welcome return to a thoughtfully created world, not really necessary.

Uru is an exception, because it is such an awesomely bizzare (also beautiful) game that it, too should be experienced, but you need to be familiar with the whole lore (all games and all three books) to really get the most out of it.

szaromir said:
I never played any of the series which game is worth playing the most to see what it's all about?

The problem is that the series is heavily story-based, so you really should not start in the middle. I recommend starting with Myst, even though its far more abstract puzzles are a far cry from the ingenious puzzles organically woven into Riven.

You can choose between the original Myst which uses still images or the remake realMyst which sports an actual 3D engine.

Get it from here:
http://www.gog.com/en/search/sort/publisher/Cyan Inc
http://www.gog.com/en/search/sort/publisher/Cyan Worlds
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
szaromir said:
I never played any of the series which game is worth playing the most to see what it's all about?

Obviously, I'd say you should play Riven above all else, but it's probably best to give the original Myst a shot first. The puzzles are much simpler and it will get you into the right kind of mindset to properly tackle Riven. It will also acquaint you with some of the more abstract concepts in the series such as linking books.

Just keep in mind Myst has aged horribly and is pretty incoherent and clumsy in design and execution. It will, however, make Riven more enjoyable.

Only tackle the other games, exile, revelation and end of ages if you absolutely need more after you finish Riven. With the exception of EoA, none of them were made by the original team and they don't have the same cleverness and originality. They make up for it in production value though I suppose. None of them comes close to Riven however.
 

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
I remember when this first came out... the puzzle where you do indeed have to close the doors behind you (many doors in Riven close behind you automatically, so this should've been a hint).

I got hopelessly stuck. I played through every part of the game I had been to, every day, for a week and a half, before i finally clicked on that damn open door and shut it behind me.

That still grinds my gears.
 

szaromir

Banned
Thanks for the answers. I think I'll buy realMyst soon then, seems to have good graphics for a 2000 title and I think it's better for immersion than prerendered images.
 

Lafazar

Member
mclem said:
Out of interest, having played Myst long ago (on the Saturn!) - was the new zone added in (IIRC) RealMyst any good?
It's quite beautiful, but very small. It has a small puzzle that reveals a room which ties directly to Atrus' efforts with Riven, but you'd have to have played Myst 4 before to understand its significance.

The Myst series is incredibly well interconnected, lots of little things that only make sense when you played a later game or read the books, but this one example is perhaps a bit extreme, especially for newcomers for which it will have little significance or even make no sense.
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Lafazar said:
It's quite beautiful, but very small. It has a small puzzle that reveals a room which ties directly to Atrus' efforts with Riven, but you'd have to have played Myst 4 before to understand its significance.

Man was I ever disappointed in Rime. It took me a whole 5 minutes to finish and all you get is a
picture of Riven
. The little light show is kind of neat I guess.
 

protonion

Member
You solved the marble puzzle by yourself? Even though I've played every adventure game out there (mostly without guides), this puzzle was just impossible for me. Maybe I wasn't patient.
The game is basically 3 puzzles.Marlbe, D'ni numbers and animals. Noone can deny the brilliance in the game's design, but in the end I think it was harder than it should.

BTW there is an amazing faq for this game at gamefaqs (the first one by 3791). It explains every detail in the game. And it also makes playing the game a lot of fun for those who don't want to invest dozens of hours to solve it themselves...
 

Lafazar

Member
luka said:
Man was I ever disappointed in Rime. It took me a whole 5 minutes to finish and all you get is a
picture of Riven
. The little light show is kind of neat I guess.
If you played Myst 4 you realize what Atrus was doing there. It's nice little "a-ha" moment. If you haven't played Myst 4 the thing falls flat, I admit. (It's not just a picture)
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
protonion said:
You solved the marble puzzle by yourself? Even though I've played every adventure game out there (mostly without guides), this puzzle was just impossible for me. Maybe I wasn't patient.
The game is basically 3 puzzles.Marlbe, D'ni numbers and animals. Noone can deny the brilliance in the game's design, but in the end I think it was harder than it should.

I did. Once I saw it I was totally stumped and overwhelmed for a few hours. But in the end it really wasn't too tough when you break it down into manageable bits. It's just a matter of figuring out what you're trying to do, the machine actually does, and making the connections with the other devices around the world by the symbols and colors that represent them. Making notes and diagrams of pretty much everything you see helps a lot. When you look at each component individually it's totally doable.

The big problems I ran into were little things like noticing the switch inside the temple that raises the bridge to allow access to the marble grid...or pressing the little white button after lowering the switch to actually activate the machine. Figuring out the pattern took a while, but I think that was actually the easiest part. :lol

Lafazar said:
If you played Myst 4 you realize what Atrus was doing there. It's nice little "a-ha" moment. If you haven't played Myst 4 the thing falls flat, I admit. (It's not just a picture)

I haven't finished 4 yet. That's next on the chopping block once I get another weekend to myself. I don't think I want to subject myself to that one without a bit of outside help though. :p
 

mclem

Member
protonion said:
To finish them? Anything between 20 hours and an eternity!

You can roll the end credits of Myst in two minutes. I think you can do similar with Riven, too. Both are missing the point entirely!
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Oh man, Riven. I spent weeks playing through the PS1 version when I was like 15.

Only to get RIGHT near the end, and a switch that was supposed to be somewhere wasn't.

I raged for a month straight. :lol
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
mclem said:
You can roll the end credits of Myst in two minutes. I think you can do similar with Riven, too. Both are missing the point entirely!

Isn't the code to the telescope hatch in Riven random? I'll have to try.
Even if it isn't, you'd just get one of the bad endings. I'm almost positive most of the codes like the domes and Catherine's prison are random.
 

JoeMartin

Member
I mean if you knew the combo to the switches to get the white page and the pattern for the lock on the fireplace then yeah, you could beat Myst in like 5 minutes.

But that's completely beside the point as you'd need to complete the whole game (well, most of it anyways) to get to get access to that information.
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
JoeMartin said:
I mean if you knew the combo to the switches to get the white page and the pattern for the lock on the fireplace then yeah, you could beat Myst in like 5 minutes.

Technically you'd also need to know the setting for the clock tower. :p
 

protonion

Member
Well, you can enter the D'ni without the white page and get stuck there. That's what happened in my first playthrough. Then I released the brothers...
 

luka

Loves Robotech S1
Just checked, all the codes in Riven are definitely randomized. I'd say it you could beat it in about 20 minutes though, knowing exactly where to go. Maybe I'll try a speedrun just for shits.
 

6.8

Member
Riven was quite good.
I felt like a freaking champ after solving many of its puzzle, again no internet back then. Glad you liked it. :D
 

Eccocid

Member
i used to ride that roller coster submarine on rails all day back and forth!
Riven has the most difficult puzzles among all of them i think. The hting is it is very organic not like other Myst games.
 
Riven and Myst are fantastic games that really choke me up with nostalgia when I think about just how unfortunate Cyan's fate was, and just how forgotten the games have become. Beautiful, beautiful environments and a compelling mythos to boot. I love those first two - not so much the rest - for their ability to instill a sense of wonder and desire to explore and discover.
 
I remember finding this game so intimidating after Myst! At least in Myst the puzzles all... looked like puzzles, and you were always constrained to a few screens at a time. When I loaded up Riven, I didn't have a bloody clue where to start; I wandered around for screen after screen and couldn't even FIND the puzzles, let alone solve 'em.

I understand that's the whole point though, so I ought to pick it up again really! You'd think these and the 'room escape' games would be a good fit for the casual market these days.
 

mclem

Member
Eccocid said:
i used to ride that roller coster submarine on rails all day back and forth!

That reminds me. Folks remember the railway maze in Myst,
where you were supposed to use audio cues to lead you to the exit?

I failed to spot the audio cues.

I mapped the whole damn thing.
 

BearFoo

Neo Member
Lafazar said:
I recommend reading the first two books as well. Myst, Riven and the first two Books combine to make a great and original story. I felt everything after that was, while still a nice and welcome return to a thoughtfully created world, not really necessary.

Uru is an exception, because it is such an awesomely bizzare (also beautiful) game that it, too should be experienced, but you need to be familiar with the whole lore (all games and all three books) to really get the most out of it.

I'll echo Lafazar. I played the all games many years ago. whilst I enjoyed them, I was young at the time and so obviously found the challenge too much for my patience a lot of the time.

Then I happened across the first 2 books, enjoyed reading them and the worlds they describe, so about a year ago I re-brought them all in the dvd collection, and played them all in order without hints. I really enjoyed how the story and the world they had created had a real sense of purpose, there is a wonderful sense of discovery.

Having read the books, it really brings parts of Myst V & Uru to life, knowing the history behind some of the environments, it was a great experience.
 

Zing

Banned
I bought Riven at release. I played through quite a bit of it, but got stuck and couldn't figure out what to do or where to go. Swapping between discs all the time when I was already frustrated was enough for me to retire it.

I still have my original discs. About a month ago, I dug them out and was tempted to install. Then I read that SCUMMVM has preliminary support for Myst & Riven. I decided to save myself a lot of headache by waiting for it to be supported in a stable build. I have no desire to pollute my WinXP system with some random old version of quicktime just for this game.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I highly recommend both RealMYST and Riven, both spectacular examples of adventure game design. They're probably the ultimate example of in medias res. You are dumped into a dead world and given no information. Through exploring and taking notes, you begin to get a sense of how things went to shit.

The worlds you're in are full of complex, precise, and most importantly foreign machines, all of which have no discernible purpose or mode of operation until you figure them out. You need to use your imagination and your deductive skills to figure out how and who used the machines.

Foreignness is key to Myst. No world looks like Asia, or Africa, or South America, or Art Nouveau. No particular historical place or period or style is being evoked. It's not steampunk, it's not cyberpunk. It's foreign. It's alien.

Although you can't* die in Myst or Riven, there's always a feeling of dread because as you get closer to discovering what happened, you know what happened was very wrong. The limited human communication you do get in both games is very authentic too, thanks to the use of live-action actors.

Use a good pen and a full notebook for Myst and Riven. Don't use internet FAQs; Myst can be finished in less than 5 minutes if you read a FAQ, but that's not the point. It's the journey, not the destination. Myst is hard because it's different than anything else, but Riven is merciless; it'll probably be the hardest puzzle/adventure game you'll ever play.

If you liked Myst and Riven, Zork: Nemesis is contemporary to both and similar in a lot of ways, despite being a lot more sinister and evil. One problem is that it looks total total fucking garbage in this day and age :/
 
I used to watch my bro play the original Myst on his 3DO, which we still have, back in the day. I used to love watching him play. The game creeped me the fuck out though. I remember my brother pressing a wrong switch in a boat and an alarm sounded and all the lights went out. I thought something was gonna get him in the dark. I was so scared at the time. The whole game is still unlike anything I've ever played. No game has been able to replicate it.


Riven is a WHOLE other beast. Hard as fuck but rewarding if done on your own. I give major props to OP for beating the game legit. It took me and my older bro a looooong time to finish it with us both working together. I remember swapping discs constantly when going back to other areas. :lol

Fantastic adventure games. I like exile too. Cool game but not as good as thr first two. I didn't even bother with new ones after exile because I heard they weren't that good. :(
 
I remeber playing through Myst when I was 13 or so and it was such a great experience. I never even tried Riven but the OP has really sold me on it. I will definitely be on the lookout for a way to play it in the future.
 
Stumpokapow said:
I highly recommend both RealMYST and Riven, both spectacular examples of adventure game design. They're probably the ultimate example of in medias res. You are dumped into a dead world and given no information. Through exploring and taking notes, you begin to get a sense of how things went to shit.

The worlds you're in are full of complex, precise, and most importantly foreign machines, all of which have no discernible purpose or mode of operation until you figure them out. You need to use your imagination and your deductive skills to figure out how and who used the machines.

Foreignness is key to Myst. No world looks like Asia, or Africa, or South America, or Art Nouveau. No particular historical place or period or style is being evoked. It's not steampunk, it's not cyberpunk. It's foreign. It's alien.

Although you can't* die in Myst or Riven, there's always a feeling of dread because as you get closer to discovering what happened, you know what happened was very wrong. The limited human communication you do get in both games is very authentic too, thanks to the use of live-action actors.

Use a good pen and a full notebook for Myst and Riven. Don't use internet FAQs; Myst can be finished in less than 5 minutes if you read a FAQ, but that's not the point. It's the journey, not the destination. Myst is hard because it's different than anything else, but Riven is merciless; it'll probably be the hardest puzzle/adventure game you'll ever play.

If you liked Myst and Riven, Zork: Nemesis is contemporary to both and similar in a lot of ways, despite being a lot more sinister and evil. One problem is that it looks total total fucking garbage in this day and age :/

I still want to see someone make realRiven with a modern graphics engine. :'(

Riven is hard not just because the puzzles are obscure, but because the game deliberately fucks with you. Several times.
 

Tain

Member
Still need to play Myst IV. Hell, it's even installed and waiting!

This series definitely gets shit on too much in some circles.
 
I received Riven as a gift pretty much when it first came out. For some reason it didn't work on my computer - it crashed really early on. So I never really got the chance to play it. I still have it. Now I'm inspired to see if I can get it to work once again.
 
I loved these games back in the day, and I'm not sure if I ever finished Riven, though I think I still have the MacOS (System 9 BITCHES) back in my parents house.

Didn't marty O'Donnell (Of Halo's singing monks fame) do the music for Riven?
 
Tain said:
Still need to play Myst IV. Hell, it's even installed and waiting!

This series definitely gets shit on too much in some circles.

Myst was the first game I remember recieving that kind of "hardcore angry at games that appeal to casual gamers because it's different than what he expects" kind of pointless rage. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now.
farmville sucks
 

BigAT

Member
electricpirate said:
Myst was the first game I remember recieving that kind of "hardcore angry at games that appeal to casual gamers because it's different than what he expects" kind of pointless rage. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now.
farmville sucks
That sentiment was especially misplaced because Myst is actually quite hardcore in its own way. It happened to appeal to a segment of the population that wasn't traditionally interested in video games at the time, but I think anyone that sat down and tried to play it without a guide/hints would agree that it's hardcore.
 
I couldn't have written a more dead-on post about Riven than the OP. It perfectly captures exactly my response after playing it for the for the first time a few years ago. I got the 10th Anniversary DVDs, zipped through Myst in a day, thought it was cute but not that special, then popped in Riven.

The next week was the most I've ever gotten wrapped up and fixated on a single video game.

I'll confess I consulted a walkthrough at a couple points but mainly because of switches or doors I was missing (the switch to open the big fish totem's mouth in the jungle is totally inconspicuous). I did solve the bulk of the puzzles as you say: observation, deduction, analyzing everything's purpose. I'll never forget the feeling when I first got to Map Island, and turned on the Map: I knew exactly what it was and what it represented, and what I was supposed to do with it. For lack of a better word, it just made sense. More than anything else, Riven made feel like an anthropologist, trying to piece together how a people operated and made use of their habitat from afar, and what other forces (Gehn) shaped them.

I actually really liked Exile and Revelation but none of them come close to the singular execution and cohesiveness of Riven (because, like Myst, they were each about traveling to 3-4 Ages). But the Ages were well-designed and fascinating to explore. Fuck Revelation's puzzles (how the fuck did anyone figure out that power chair?)

I played through realMyst for the first time a few days ago. Just made me want a realRiven. :( I just hope all these new Myst ports are bringing Cyan some dough.
 
Top Bottom