The "Brock Lesnar vs chimp" mini-debate last night got me thinking: in what scenarios would a strong, well-trained human being stand a reasonably good chance of defeating an ape without the use of guns, bows or other weapons?
Let's look at a few scenarios here:
1) Elite human fighter vs 150 lb chimpanzee in the octagon.
In this scenario, we're talking about one of the biggest and baddest of the badass human fighters ever to walk this earth. Mike Tyson in his prime, Brock Lesnar, or someone of that sort. Someone who could easily K.O. the average Joe off the street with a half-strength punch. He goes up against an average-sized chimpanzee. Not a hulking mass of chimp like that 200-pounder that ripped the woman's face off, but a chimp of average or even slightly-below average size.
I honestly believe the human would have a better than 50% chance at winning if he stuck to strikes. No grappling, no wrestling. Just pure strikes. In his prime, Tyson was rumored to throw a punch with 1600 psi of force. Even the thicker chimp skulls are going to be ringing after one or two of those.
HOWEVER, the most common argument used against me was that the chimp would maul the man with its teeth. If we concede that the chimp's teeth are too much of an advantage, then I give you the next scenario:
1b) Elite human fighter vs muzzled 150 lb chimpanzee in the octagon.
Exactly the same as the above, but the chimpanzee is unable to bite. It can only use its four limbs and sheer brute strength.
If we take the teeth out of the picture, can the elite human defeat the chimp?
Since I said the human could win in scenario 1, it goes without saying that I think he could win in scenario 1b. But if you thought that the human had no chance in the first scenario, does putting a muzzle on the chimp change your mind?
HOWEVER, another common argument was that chimps don't play fair and would reach for our oversized human genitals and rip them off. If we concede that the willingness and ability to castrate an opponent by hand is too much of an advantage, then I give you the next scenario:
1c) Elite human fighter wearing impenetrable jockstrap vs muzzled 150 lb chimpanzee in the octagon.
Exactly the same as the above, but now the human's bits and pieces are safe. This will probably allow the human to survive brief grappling periods against the chimp, and probably makes the human the dead nuts even if you didn't think he could win in scenarios 1 or 1b.
Scenario 2) Elite human fighter vs chimp in small forest arena.
The next scenario takes our combatants out of the octagon. The chimp is no longer muzzled, and the man doesn't get his jockstrap. However, they are placed in a small, fenced-in, forested area littered with rocks and tree branches. Both combatants can use anything they find. So while there are no man-made weapons, the human can throw rocks and sticks or use them to bash the chimp over the head. The chimp can do the same if it can figure out how to do so.
I'm definitely taking the human in this fight. If he can pick up a decent sized tree branch of sufficient hardness, it's gg chimp.
Scenario 3) Elite human fighter vs gorilla in larger forest arena. Both get prep time. No traps.
In this scenario, the stakes are raised as our elite human fighter finds himself up against the king of the primates. This is no 150 lb chimp. This is a 450 lb gorilla. It is actually 8-10 times stronger than the human. Again, there are rocks, trees and sticks around. Both combatants are given some time to formulate a strategy and to fashion whatever kinds of weapons they can. However, the human cannot build Predator-style traps. He can only create items that he can carry in his hands.
I have much more trouble taking the human here. His best chance would be to find some kind of tree branch that he could shape into a spear. But he doesn't have any kind of knife to carve a pointed end on the spear with, so he'd have to hope that snapping a branch in half would result in an end with sufficient sharpness. If he can do this, he has a fighting chance. If all he can do is throw rocks or swing sticks, I think the gorilla takes this one every time.
Scenario 4) Major League Baseball Fireballer with multiple rocks vs chimp or gorilla. Apes must start from 100 yards away.
In this scenario, we take an ultra-athletic major league pitcher with 100mph heat and give him lots and lots of rocks to throw. The ape starts from 100 yards away and must close the distance.
I think the human has a great chance vs the chimp in this scenario. A baseball sized rock striking the chimp's head at 90+mph is going to do some damage. I'm not sure how much the rocks would hurt the gorilla though.
Let's look at a few scenarios here:
1) Elite human fighter vs 150 lb chimpanzee in the octagon.
In this scenario, we're talking about one of the biggest and baddest of the badass human fighters ever to walk this earth. Mike Tyson in his prime, Brock Lesnar, or someone of that sort. Someone who could easily K.O. the average Joe off the street with a half-strength punch. He goes up against an average-sized chimpanzee. Not a hulking mass of chimp like that 200-pounder that ripped the woman's face off, but a chimp of average or even slightly-below average size.
I honestly believe the human would have a better than 50% chance at winning if he stuck to strikes. No grappling, no wrestling. Just pure strikes. In his prime, Tyson was rumored to throw a punch with 1600 psi of force. Even the thicker chimp skulls are going to be ringing after one or two of those.
HOWEVER, the most common argument used against me was that the chimp would maul the man with its teeth. If we concede that the chimp's teeth are too much of an advantage, then I give you the next scenario:
1b) Elite human fighter vs muzzled 150 lb chimpanzee in the octagon.
Exactly the same as the above, but the chimpanzee is unable to bite. It can only use its four limbs and sheer brute strength.
If we take the teeth out of the picture, can the elite human defeat the chimp?
Since I said the human could win in scenario 1, it goes without saying that I think he could win in scenario 1b. But if you thought that the human had no chance in the first scenario, does putting a muzzle on the chimp change your mind?
HOWEVER, another common argument was that chimps don't play fair and would reach for our oversized human genitals and rip them off. If we concede that the willingness and ability to castrate an opponent by hand is too much of an advantage, then I give you the next scenario:
1c) Elite human fighter wearing impenetrable jockstrap vs muzzled 150 lb chimpanzee in the octagon.
Exactly the same as the above, but now the human's bits and pieces are safe. This will probably allow the human to survive brief grappling periods against the chimp, and probably makes the human the dead nuts even if you didn't think he could win in scenarios 1 or 1b.
Scenario 2) Elite human fighter vs chimp in small forest arena.
The next scenario takes our combatants out of the octagon. The chimp is no longer muzzled, and the man doesn't get his jockstrap. However, they are placed in a small, fenced-in, forested area littered with rocks and tree branches. Both combatants can use anything they find. So while there are no man-made weapons, the human can throw rocks and sticks or use them to bash the chimp over the head. The chimp can do the same if it can figure out how to do so.
I'm definitely taking the human in this fight. If he can pick up a decent sized tree branch of sufficient hardness, it's gg chimp.
Scenario 3) Elite human fighter vs gorilla in larger forest arena. Both get prep time. No traps.
In this scenario, the stakes are raised as our elite human fighter finds himself up against the king of the primates. This is no 150 lb chimp. This is a 450 lb gorilla. It is actually 8-10 times stronger than the human. Again, there are rocks, trees and sticks around. Both combatants are given some time to formulate a strategy and to fashion whatever kinds of weapons they can. However, the human cannot build Predator-style traps. He can only create items that he can carry in his hands.
I have much more trouble taking the human here. His best chance would be to find some kind of tree branch that he could shape into a spear. But he doesn't have any kind of knife to carve a pointed end on the spear with, so he'd have to hope that snapping a branch in half would result in an end with sufficient sharpness. If he can do this, he has a fighting chance. If all he can do is throw rocks or swing sticks, I think the gorilla takes this one every time.
Scenario 4) Major League Baseball Fireballer with multiple rocks vs chimp or gorilla. Apes must start from 100 yards away.
In this scenario, we take an ultra-athletic major league pitcher with 100mph heat and give him lots and lots of rocks to throw. The ape starts from 100 yards away and must close the distance.
I think the human has a great chance vs the chimp in this scenario. A baseball sized rock striking the chimp's head at 90+mph is going to do some damage. I'm not sure how much the rocks would hurt the gorilla though.
