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GAF Book Club (Feb 2011) - "Flashman" by George MacDonald Fraser

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C

Cyan

Banned
Welcome to the inaugural GAF book club thread! It’s up a few days early to give you a chance to find the book if you’d like to join in.

February’s book:

220px-Flashmancover.jpg

Flashman, by George MacDonald Fraser

Can a man...
-who is expelled from school as a drunken bully
-who seduces his father's mistress to begin a secret life that leads from the boudoirs and bordellos of Victorian England to the erotic frontiers of her exotic Empire
-who lies, cheats, steals, fights fixed duels, betrays his country, and proves a coward on the battlefield...
be all bad?

Harry Paget Flashman: a scoundrel, a liar, a cheat, a thief, a coward – and, oh yes, a toady.

Should be available at your local library.
Definitely available on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0452259614/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Maybe available on Kindle (not available in US or UK): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035II8XA/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Let’s read!


Reading Milestones:
This is not a long book, but as it’s the first book club thread, we’ll go at the sedate pace of a chapter every other day.
Wed 2/2 - Ch 1&2
Fri 2/4 - Ch 3
Sun 2/6 - Ch 4
Tues 2/8 - Ch 5
Thurs 2/10 - Ch 6
Sat 2/12 - Ch 7
Mon 2/14 - Ch 8
Wed 2/16 - Ch 9
Fri 2/18 - Ch 10
Sun 2/20 - Ch 11
Tues 2/22 - Ch 12
Thurs 2/24 - End
Each milestone evening, I’ll make a post noting how far we should be, so we’re all on the same page. (Ha!)


Guidelines:
-If you read ahead, use spoiler tags!
text goes here[./spoiler]
-When using spoiler tags, please mark them--put a page or chapter number, or otherwise indicate just how far ahead you are.
-Unspoilered discussion of anything through the latest milestone is fine. If you’re not caught up, read the thread at your own risk!
-Suggestions for the next book club selection are welcome at any time. We'll pick one as we approach the end of the month.


(note: this book doesn’t have chapter numbers. This is the chapter numbering I’m using, based on the page numbers in my edition:
1 11-16
2 16-28
3 28-48
4 48-64
5 64-76
6 76-98
7 98-117
8 117-129
9 129-161
10 161-183
11 183-216
12 216-230
13 230-252)


Future Book Club Possibilities:
Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe
Ciaphas Cain series by Sandy Mitchell
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein
Lunar Park by Bret Easton Ellis
Anubis Gates (or On Stranger Tides, or Last Call) by Tim Powers
The Afghan Campaign by Steven Pressfield
 
C

Cyan

Banned
This is our first time trying this out, so feel free to chime in with comments and ideas on how to make things better.
 
J

joeyjoejoeshabadoo

Member
Just poking my head in here to say hi. I've actually started the book last Sunday but I'll refrain from discussing it until the month/club officially starts.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Repairman_Jack7 said:
My library doesn't have the original of the series. Local library fail.
Click to expand...
Damn, fail indeed. I checked several nearby libraries and they all had it. *shrug*
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Hmm. Not big on licensed books myself. But any suggestions are welcome.

Was there a particular book in the series you wanted to suggest?
 
T

Tim the Wiz

Banned
Reading Tom Brown's Schooldays (an earlier work predating this series by over a century and written by an entirely different author, showing the early years of Flashman as a young bully) is by no means necessary, but it does pay off later in the series (see: Flashman at the Charge, Flashman in the Great Game and Flashman's Lady).
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
I'm in!

Cerebral Assassin said:
Not available on the UK Kindle store. I will have to check the local library tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Yeah, where the hell are you Cyan?

"This title is not available for customers from:

United States"

No US either.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Cerebral Assassin said:
Not available on the UK Kindle store. I will have to check the local library tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Huh. Someone linked it in the reading thread and only said it was unavailable in the US... I wonder where the hell it is available.

bengraven said:
Yeah, where the hell are you Cyan?
Click to expand...
The land of people who don't own Kindles? :p
 
F

FnordChan

Member
Repairman_Jack7 said:
My library doesn't have the original of the series. Local library fail.
Click to expand...

They may be able to get you a copy via interlibrary loan. Chat with the folks at the front desk and see if they can hook you up.

I don't think I'm going to be able to find time for a re-read of Flashman, but I can attest that it's a damn fine selection to kick off the GAF Book Club. Historical fiction is always more entertaining when it's being told from the viewpoint of an utter bastard. This is also a great way to learn about the First Anglo-Afghan war and to get an understanding of why Afghanistan is nicknamed the "graveyard of empires".

FlashChan
 
C

coldvein

Banned
glad somebody decided to step up and do this. nice OP, cyan. can see that you put in some work. i just finished a big fattyfat book last night, this could be the a perfect come-down read for me. i'll check the bookstore today. (yes, i read books on paper).

p.s.: i'm glad the milestones made it in, i think that'll be key.
p.p.s: no warmhammer 40k books in the book club.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
nakedsushi said:
Great! Added it to my to-read list. But boy, what a hard to find book!
Click to expand...
No kidding. Even tracking it down on Amazon was hard.

coldvein said:
p.p.s: no warmhammer 40k books in the book club.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree. I don't want to be a snob, but I'd prefer not reading licensed books. But if it's what the people want...

FnordChan said:
I don't think I'm going to be able to find time for a re-read of Flashman, but I can attest that it's a damn fine selection to kick off the GAF Book Club. Historical fiction is always more entertaining when it's being told from the viewpoint of an utter bastard. This is also a great way to learn about the First Anglo-Afghan war and to get an understanding of why Afghanistan is nicknamed the "graveyard of empires".

FlashChan
Click to expand...
Bummer. I'd like to have you on board. You should hop in at some point and give us suggestions for future book clubs, in any case. :)
 
A

Attackthebase

Member
This sounds like an awesome idea, sadly I won't be able to join any of the Gaf's book club until the summer. Curse being an English major!
 
V

VGChampion

Member
Going to check Barnes & Noble for Flashman later tonight though. Sounds like it could be good. A little different from what I usually read but I'm always open.

And did I miss a suggestion thread or anything? Because more people need to read Stranger in a Strange Land. Such a great book.

Oh, and I've never read Warhammer and really don't have any interest in it but a book club should be about reading something you wouldn't have before.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
VGChampion said:
And did I miss a suggestion thread or anything? Because more people need to read Stranger in a Strange Land. Such a great book.
Click to expand...
Nah, we talked about various suggestions in the January Reading thread. I'm keeping a list of people's suggestions though, so feel free to mention something you'd like to add at any time. I've added a note to that effect in the OP.

So far we've got:
Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe
Ciaphas Cain series by Sandy Mitchell
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein

I'll probably add the list to the bottom of the OP at some point. Anyway, when we approach the end of the month we'll have a vote.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
One more day to get your hands on the book!

Edit: Wait, actually I can't count. Today's the 29th, isn't it. :lol
 
R

ronito

Member
Sorry Hobbes, I've got such a huge backlog of stuff to read I can't get into this. But still a brilliant idea.
 
A

Anno

Member
Apparently Columbus-GAF has beat me to the punch here. Both copies owned by the CML are out and there are 5 requests after that! Guess I'll call around to Half-Price Books and see if they have any copies nearby.
 
V

Vard

Member
Thanks for making this thread, Cyan. I placed a hold for it last week through my library but it looks like I can't pick it up yet. :\ Hopefully it will be in my possession soon.
 
T

TTG

Member
I suppose I'm ahead of you guys, I just finished the first in the series and will be moving on to the third(or 4th chronologically). My edition includes three books, with no apparent reason for why they skipped a few along the way. Anyway, this doesn't seem to be a problem at all. I'm looking forward to what war/conflict Flashy gets himself into next more than anything else. That's really the ultimate highlight, historical fiction done very very well. It's genuinely funny and moves at a good pace too.

If you're looking for a hero with at least some redeeming qualities... you won't find many. Every time you start to cheer for the guy(he has a good sense of humor and is a good judge of character) he'll do something shitty. But, again, a really fun read.
 
S

Salazar

Member
TTG said:
I suppose I'm ahead of you guys, I just finished the first in the series and will be moving on to the third(or 4th chronologically). My edition includes three books, with no apparent reason for why they skipped a few along the way. Anyway, this doesn't seem to be a problem at all. I'm looking forward to what war/conflict Flashy gets himself into next more than anything else. That's really the ultimate highlight, historical fiction done very very well. It's genuinely funny and moves at a good pace too.
Click to expand...

Royal Flash is the apex of Fraser's achievement and Flashy's adventures. Bismarck and Rudi are such glorious villains.

I was stunned afresh rereading this one how quickly Flashy's
quasi-rapist erotic style
is established, and how
disquietingly easy it is to like him all the more for it
. I've read a bit of Fraser's essays ("Lights Out At Signpost" is the collection) and he does seem to have been a somewhat crusty and dislikable buffer, but I can't help but admire the ironic deftness in sketching Flashy's character - and to think that you have to, in some sense or measure, be a good person to be able to create such a superbly constructed rotter.

And I love, simply love, the censored cursing.

Fraser also wrote the screenplays for the old Musketeer films (at least two of them), and I suppose you could take Flashy to be a louche extension - a soiled twin - of Porthos. As I've mentioned before in connection with these books, though, the next step after them is Kyril Bonfiglioli's Mortdecai trilogy. It takes a sort of Flashman figure but subtracts what little courage there is and adds a sort of Bertie Wooster-ish geniality. It preserves a lot of the things that make Flashy so horrible and likeable, and is a considerably richer - if less immediately vivid - kind of character. And the books are funny. Timelessly goddamn funny.
 
T

TTG

Member
Salazar said:
Flashy so horrible and likeable
Click to expand...


He really is, isn't he? He is an opportunistic coward of sorts. Very clear perspective on most things, very adroit under certain circumstances. His sense of humor and honesty sort of start to win you over, then he'll step over bounds and do a really nasty thing and you'll be weary of enjoying his commentary so much for a few minutes... then it will melt away. It's the same way when he gets into trouble. Most of the time I'm enjoying it, he deserves everything that's coming to him. But, at the very end of the first book(won't spoil what happens, but I'm sure you know) I actually felt sorry for him. Flashy, of course, just rolled with the punches and took it in stride.
 
Amory

Amory

Member
drat. nook's ebook selection includes what appears to be two sequels, but not "Flashman" itself.

would also like to suggest "Lunar Park" by bret easton ellis. very strange book, but dude can write extremely well. he's a popular author though, so too many people may have already read it
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Vard said:
Thanks for making this thread, Cyan. I placed a hold for it last week through my library but it looks like I can't pick it up yet. :\ Hopefully it will be in my possession soon.
Click to expand...
Don't worry, no need to rush. Just be wary of spoilers from 2/2 onward.

afternoon delight said:
Up for book club in general, but will wait for next month's book.
Click to expand...
Boo!
 
J

Jenga

Banned
Just finished.

Better make it forty.

A great adventure novel with a protagonist (of sorts) that makes you think twice cheering for. Just what I expected!


EDIT: wait we were doing it by days? heh woops!
 
J

joeyjoejoeshabadoo

Member
I don't know what to think about the book so far. It's interesting and Flashy is definitely a lovable asshole but it's not what I was expecting. I guess I was a expecting a more British version of Little Big Man, however, Flashman doesn't seem as funny to me as Little Big Man was. It's possible that I'm just not getting a lot of the humor or some of the references are just going over my head but it's not as funny as people made it seem.
 
C

coldvein

Banned
alright, read the first couple chapters. i dig the character. to start off with, i like that he seems to be accepting of his faults. i liked that he feels no guilt for being kicked out of school for drunkenness at age seventeen. that part made me smile.

when Miss Parsons is introduced, he's instantly attracted to her, and ballsy enough to decide that he can bang off with her. i wasn't sure if he actually would, then he did, and i was like "oh, so this book is gonna be like that". ha. i did find it a bit shocking when she refused to sleep with him again and he essentially beat her.


anyway, good choice for a first book club book i figure. easy enough to read and entertaining too.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
End of Chapter Two
Expulsions: 1
Ladies slept with: 3

Well, good fun so far. Our... hero has been thrown out of Rugby School for drunkenness, showed that he doesn't give a damn, seduced daddy's mistress, then beat her up when she wouldn't sleep with him a second time. Then joined the army.

Which raises the question, why do I even like this guy?

So. Anyone here read Tom Brown's Schooldays? I'm slightly curious about the other characters mentioned in the first chapter. Are they all straight out of that book, and does knowledge thereof add anything?

Also, gotta love the frame story. Apparently more than one reviewer was taken in by the "Explanatory Note" at the beginning, about how this is a true story straight out of Flashman's private papers. Which is why the book now says "a novel" on the front just under the title. Can't remember where I read this, maybe someone can confirm.

Reminds me of The Princess Bride, actually. I was taken in by the frame story for more than a year after having read it. It wasn't until somebody else talked about "the frame story in Princess Bride" that I finally figured it out. lols.
 
C

coldvein

Banned
Cyan said:
Also, gotta love the frame story. Apparently more than one reviewer was taken in by the "Explanatory Note" at the beginning, about how this is a true story straight out of Flashman's private papers. Which is why the book now says "a novel" on the front just under the title. Can't remember where I read this, maybe someone can confirm.

Reminds me of The Princess Bride, actually. I was taken in by the frame story for more than a year after having read it. It wasn't until somebody else talked about "the frame story in Princess Bride" that I finally figured it out. lols.
Click to expand...

never heard the term frame story before. it's a cool idea. and there's no reason that there should be any disclaimer or "it's just a story!" there to spoil it. it's great if people buy into it. i was the same with the princess bride..for the longest time i was like, who is this s. morgenstern?
 
D

Dresden

Member
I believed that it was real for a long time, too (regarding the Princess Bride). Then one day I googled it and it was like Santa died.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
coldvein said:
never heard the term frame story before. it's a cool idea. and there's no reason that there should be any disclaimer or "it's just a story!" there to spoil it. it's great if people buy into it. i was the same with the princess bride..for the longest time i was like, who is this s. morgenstern?
Click to expand...
Love em. We did it in Creative Writing GAF a long while back.

Dresden said:
I believed that it was real for a long time, too (regarding the Princess Bride). Then one day I googled it and it was like Santa died.
Click to expand...
It was damn convincing! I mean, Goldman went all out to convince you it was real, even being credited as having abridged the book rather than written it.

I felt slightly betrayed when I realized he didn't even have a son. :/
 
J

joeyjoejoeshabadoo

Member
Cyan said:
It was damn convincing! I mean, Goldman went all out to convince you it was real, even being credited as having abridged the book rather than written it.

I felt slightly betrayed when I realized he didn't even have a son. :/
Click to expand...
Not to go on about about The Princess Bride but I loved Goldman's little notes throughout the book about what he took out of the "original" text.

Unfortunately I read The Princess Bride after I knew S. Morgenstern was fake so I never was fooled. However, I did read it as if Goldman really did find this long lost book and abridged it.
 
D

Dresden

Member
What really got me was all the stuff about Stephen King. I'm glad I was so suckered--made for a better reading experience.

Anyways, got through the first three chapters right now. Enjoying it so far.
 
E

evilpigking

Member
Interesting so far, I think Flashman's actions towards his father's mistress are probably the best indications of what to expect as the book progresses. Clearly a lot of these two chapters was setup. Looking forward to seeing why everyone has been transferring out of the unit and his reaction when he realizes he is about to be boned (as the foreshadowing with the Uncle would indicate).
 
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