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GAF Book Club (Feb 2011) - "Flashman" by George MacDonald Fraser

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C

coldvein

Banned
i think i've somehow been a chapter behind schedule, but that's okay! just finished what i think is chapter eight and thought it was the funniest so far. Flashman posturing and screaming at Akbar Khan was pretty good. some really classic lines, after the afghan's 'betrayal'.

"..i rode forward a few paces, on impulse, and waved my sword over my head. It was impressively bloody from having hit somebody in the scramble.".


"For God's sake!" cries Le Geyt. "You can't fight them all!"
"Haven't I just been doing that?" says I.


shelton: "I will sneer at him, Mackenzie!" says he. "I like sneering at him!"



the humor is the best part of this book fo sho.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
coldvein said:
"..i rode forward a few paces, on impulse, and waved my sword over my head. It was impressively bloody from having hit somebody in the scramble.".


"For God's sake!" cries Le Geyt. "You can't fight them all!"
"Haven't I just been doing that?" says I.


shelton: "I will sneer at him, Mackenzie!" says he. "I like sneering at him!"



the humor is the best part of this book fo sho.
Click to expand...
That was a great scene. And then of course later Le Geyt is spouting off about how he had to hold Flashman back from fighting the whole mob. Love it!

Some of my favorite stuff is Flashy's sneering commentary on Elphy Bey and McNaghten.
 
Amory

Amory

Member
I've been reading this book incredibly slowly...mostly on toilet breaks...but I realized today that I'm really enjoying the story. The pacing is really good, and it's been a while since I read a straight-up adventure novel, and I've missed it.

Perhaps my favorite two paragraphs of the book so far:

"It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whore-mongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark.

It was a commonplace enough letter, I suppose, with news that she and my father were well, and that she was Desolate without her True Love, and Counted the Hours till my Triumphant Return from the Cannon's Mouth, and so on. God knows what young women think a soldier does for a living."
 
C

Cyan

Banned
End of Chapter Ten
Expulsions: 2
Ladies slept with: 6
Cowardly escapes: 4

"It is really too bad." - Elphy's epitaph, per Flashman.

It really, truly is incredible how at each juncture of decision (what W would call decision points!), Elphy chose the worst possible option. Dithering about leaving, then deciding so late that the whole army was up all night preparing to leave. Trying to stop before the river (good thing he was disobeyed). Stopping before the pass, which both allowed the enemy to take it and kept his army freezing and dying over night. And then trying over and over to negotiate with Akbar Khan. Yikes.

Flashy's well shut of it. Bout time he made a break for it.
 
D

Dresden

Member
Cyan said:
End of Chapter Ten
Expulsions: 2
Ladies slept with: 6
Cowardly escapes: 4

"It is really too bad." - Elphy's epitaph, per Flashman.

It really, truly is incredible how at each juncture of decision (what W would call decision points!), Elphy chose the worst possible option. Dithering about leaving, then deciding so late that the whole army was up all night preparing to leave. Trying to stop before the river (good thing he was disobeyed). Stopping before the pass, which both allowed the enemy to take it and kept his army freezing and dying over night. And then trying over and over to negotiate with Akbar Khan. Yikes.

Flashy's well shut of it. Bout time he made a break for it.
Click to expand...
That part made me rage.

If only someone had smothered old Elphy in his sleep. And yet, I suppose honor compelled them to follow and all that junk.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Righto, we've got about ten days until the end of the month. Time to start thinking about our next bookclub book!

The suggestions so far:
Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe
Ciaphas Cain series by Sandy Mitchell
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein
Lunar Park by Bret Easton Ellis
Anubis Gates (or On Stranger Tides, or Last Call) by Tim Powers
The Afghan Campaign by Steven Pressfield (not about the British, I promise!)
A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan

Let's get some votes going, and/or further suggestions. Also, if you are up for running the thread for a particular book, please mention that.

I vote for Shadow of the Torturer, and would be willing to run that thread.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Dresden said:
That part made me rage.

If only someone had smothered old Elphy in his sleep. And yet, I suppose honor compelled them to follow and all that junk.
Click to expand...
Shelton was pretty sensible--it was his disobedience that got them across the river. If he could've just taken over for Elphy... he even seemed pretty tempted when Elphy refused to keep on and cross the pass the first day.

Elphy... You really have to wonder how someone so totally incompetent not only rose to generalship, but was assigned to such a powder keg of a post, one that really required a steady hand.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Cyan said:
It really, truly is incredible how at each juncture of decision (what W would call decision points!), Elphy chose the worst possible option.
Click to expand...

It took quite a bit of controversially-received revisionist history to hammer home just how dire British generalship had been. Fraser does give a pretty bloody good picture of it: the fact that a more or less accurate account plays out as satire is a little tragic, really.
 
C

coldvein

Banned
what a disaster that last chapter was. in a good way, i mean. the march/massacre through the snow was harrowing stuff. was getting some dan simmons' The Terror vibes there. ha.


as for next month's book i don't have a preference. i don't feel like suggesting anything because i want to read something i haven't read before. i guess i'll cast my vote for shadow of the torturer, mostly because cyan is willing to run the thread and has done a great job with this one.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
End of Chapter Eleven
Expulsions: 2
Ladies slept with: 6
Cowardly escapes: 5

Another person who sees right through Flashman. Though it takes Hudson a while to get there, or at least to say it aloud. Too bad he apparently doesn't make it, if fortunate for Flashy.

And Gul Shah nicely out of the way, too. Man, even if Flashman deserved it, that was a harrowing bit. Maybe just a guy thing.

Flashman certainly has a talent for breaking down into a sniveling wreck when things get bad!
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
Cyan said:
Given that you just read it, would you want to read again for the book club?
Click to expand...

Sure! I think now that I "get" the story or know where it's going, a 2nd read will let me see the book in a different light.
 
Y

ymmv

Banned
I'd recommend either Anubis Gates or On Stranger Tides (with a slight nod to the former). Both books are incredible.

I love Shadow of the Torturer too, but I don't think reading only the first book of a tetralogy is good idea for a book club.
 
C

coldvein

Banned
ymmv said:
I love Shadow of the Torturer too, but I don't think reading only the first book of a tetralogy is good idea for a book club.
Click to expand...

i don't think it's necessarily a bad idea.. the current book is the first book of a series, right? and it has been absolutely delightful!
 
J

justin.au

Member
edit: Whoops, posted my current reads in the wrong thread.

On this topic: I'll add a vote for Stranger in a Strange Land by Heinlein.
 
Y

ymmv

Banned
coldvein said:
i don't think it's necessarily a bad idea.. the current book is the first book of a series, right? and it has been absolutely delightful!
Click to expand...

All the Flashman novels are standalones and you can read any of them in any order. That's not true of the Book of the New Sun series. The books are pretty difficult too. I think most readers will feel lost at the end of the first book. It's not easy entertainment but pretty dense reading after a while. A whole book has been written about Wolfe's use of archaic words and neologisms.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Ok, so far we've got:
-2 for Torturer, 1 against (as maybe not suited to a book club)
-2 for Stranger
-1 for Goon Squad
-1 for Powers
-1 for Afghan Campaign

I'll wait to see if anyone else chimes in today.

ymmv's objection seems a reasonable one (I've never read the book myself, so I have no idea how suitable it might be), so barring further votes one way or another, I'm inclined to give it to Stranger.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Dresden said:
Can we vote for our own recommendations? If so, Afghan Campaign.

If not, On Stranger Tides.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

Which (with justin's edit) brings us to:
-2 for Torturer, 1 against (as maybe not suited to a book club)
-3 for Stranger
-1 for Goon Squad
-1 for Powers
-2 for Afghan Campaign
 
C

Cyan

Banned
All right ladies and gents, the March Book Club selection is Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein.

You've got a week to get your hands on the book. Fortunately, it's a whole lot easier to find than Flashman. It's a popular classic and should be available at your local library.

If you want to buy a copy:
Amazon link
Kindle edition
 
S

Salazar

Member
Cyan said:
All right ladies and gents, the March Book Club selection is Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein.
Click to expand...

I have to do some microfiche torture at the uni library tomorrow, so I'll try and grab it.
 
B

-Babyteks-

Neo Member
Cool, I can take part :)

Btw, is anyone doing the 52 books in 52 weeks challenge? I think it could be fun to do.

Or at least a modified version of it. I like to think I read a lot but I honestly don't think I'd have time to read a book a week consistently.

This is my list if anyone is interested (Mostly old books since I realised that I've missed out on a lot of classics http://bit.ly/iiUccN )
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
-Babyteks- said:
Cool, I can take part :)

Btw, is anyone doing the 52 books in 52 weeks challenge? I think it could be fun to do.

Or at least a modified version of it. I like to think I read a lot but I honestly don't think I'd have time to read a book a week consistently.

This is my list if anyone is interested (Mostly old books since I realised that I've missed out on a lot of classics http://bit.ly/iiUccN )
Click to expand...

I'm doing the 52 books. I don't have a set list, but here's what I read so far:

http://www.goodreads.com/user_challenges/78

I took a look at your list and it looks mostly good. You have Alice Walker twice, not sure if that's intentional or not. I'd sub in something else for Memoirs of a Geisha though. I didn't think it was *that* good. Maybe replace it with Empire of the Sun or Never Let Me Go.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
-Babyteks- said:
Cool, I can take part :)

Btw, is anyone doing the 52 books in 52 weeks challenge? I think it could be fun to do.
Click to expand...
I'm signed up for it, but I'm already way behind. I'll get there in the end, though. Believe!
 
B

-Babyteks-

Neo Member
Wow!
You've read 18 books already?!
I think I'll add Never let me go - the synopsis sounds awesome.
I was on the fence about Memoirs of a Geisha because I've heard that the author completely distorted the geisha's account & made her work seem a lot more sexual and submissive than it really is. I think I heard that she herself published her own version to make things right.
I'll still read it because it seems interesting. I might read hers as well.

Oh and yeah Alice Walker's 2nd book seemed interesting too, that's why.
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
^ Oh interesting! I didn't know that about Memoirs of a Geisha. I should track down the other book and read it and see what the differences are.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
End of Chapter Twelve
Expulsions: 2
Ladies slept with: 6
Cowardly escapes: 5

And the undeserved accolades rain down!

"I just... well, pitched in with the rest, sir."

Hahaha, Flashy you bastard.

Seems to me he's quite right in his cynical observation that in such a disaster, they almost had to seize on him as a hero, just for something positive to point to. And, too, that Hudson would not have gotten the same reception.

One more chapter to go!
 
L

leroy hacker

Member
Cyan said:
Righto, we've got about ten days until the end of the month. Time to start thinking about our next bookclub book!

The suggestions so far:
Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe
Ciaphas Cain series by Sandy Mitchell
Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein
Lunar Park by Bret Easton Ellis
Anubis Gates (or On Stranger Tides, or Last Call) by Tim Powers
The Afghan Campaign by Steven Pressfield (not about the British, I promise!)
A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan

Let's get some votes going, and/or further suggestions. Also, if you are up for running the thread for a particular book, please mention that.

I vote for Shadow of the Torturer, and would be willing to run that thread.
Click to expand...

I too vote for Wolfe.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Cyan said:
And the undeserved accolades rain down!

"I just... well, pitched in with the rest, sir."

Hahaha, Flashy you bastard.
Click to expand...

It is a theme in the later novels; the undeserved glory accumulated in the first book follows him around - alternately helping and awfully hindering him.
 
D

Davedough

Member
Seeing as I now have a Kindle and I've begun reading a lot more than I already did, I'd like to take part in this if I can. Can I vote even though I wasn't part of Flashman? If so, I'd like to vote Stranger in a Strange Land.
 
D

Dresden

Member
Davedough said:
Seeing as I now have a Kindle and I've begun reading a lot more than I already did, I'd like to take part in this if I can. Can I vote even though I wasn't part of Flashman? If so, I'd like to vote Stranger in a Strange Land.
Click to expand...
The voting is over, the choice was Stranger in a Strange Land.
 
D

Davedough

Member
Dresden said:
The voting is over, the choice was Stranger in a Strange Land.
Click to expand...

Oh, whoops... missed that post it seems. Is there an official thread to sign up? I searched for Gaf Book Club and only saw this book and another one with Angel in the title.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Davedough said:
Oh, whoops... missed that post it seems. Is there an official thread to sign up? I searched for Gaf Book Club and only saw this book and another one with Angel in the title.
Click to expand...
This was the inaugural thread. There's no need to sign up for anything--a new thread will go up shortly before the beginning of the month. At that time, feel free to jump in and discuss the book. You can follow the milestones/discussion time-frame set up in the OP, or read at your own pace; whatever you like. Then, as the next month nears, we'll all vote on what to read next.

It's all very informal.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
End of the first packet of the Flashman Papers
Expulsions: 2
Ladies slept with: 7 (missed one in the last chapter)
Cowardly escapes: 5

And at last, what goes around comes around.

Flashman finds himself actually in love with a woman for the first time--just in time for her to have an affair with a man he can't stand.

And there's nothing he can do about it.

Karma's a bitch, ain't it?
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
Great fucking book. I found out recently that my sister in law has the complete collection and she's considering lending me the rest at my leisure, so that's a bonus.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
In the final analysis, Flashman does exactly what it says on the tin: Flashman is "a scoundrel, a liar, a cheat, a thief, a coward – and, oh yes, a toady." And self-aware and wry enough to be damned entertaining.

Flashy's a bastard. A consummate, grade-A bastard with few redeeming qualities. He lies to and betrays people he calls friends. He saves his own skin at the cost of others' lives. He's misogynistic as they come, he takes credit where none is due, and he has no trouble sleeping at night.

But somehow his dry wit, his candid admission of his own faults, and his sharp eye for human foibles make you want to root for him. Even as you deplore his actions, you want him to win, to get away clean once again.

As a bonus, you learn a little history on the way. Fraser's use of the frame story and footnoting is excellent, lending a nice verisimilitude to the tale. And his research is (from what I can tell) top-notch.

High marks, and I definitely intend to read the rest as I can get my hands on them.
 
S

SerArthurDayne

Member
So, I finally broke down and purchased the Flashman Everyman's library 3-in-1. I was waiting on a B&N coupon or something that would make it a deal, but oh well. So, I'll bookmark the thread and look at everyone's thoughts when I finally wrap up.
I have been wanting to check Flashman out for a while, but since I was in the middle of a series that I'm almost done with, I would have missed out on this month even if I owned the book already.
 
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