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GAF Book Club (Mar 2011) - "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Robert A. Heinlein

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C

Cyan

Banned
wRAub.jpg


Can you grok it?

Z5JfH.jpg

Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A. Heinlein

Name: Valentine Michael Smith
Ancestry: Human
Origin: Mars

Heinlein's masterpiece--the brilliant, spectacular, and incredibly popular novel that grew from a cult favorite to a bestseller to a classic in a few short years. It is the story of Valentine Michael Smith, the man from Mars who taught humankind grokking and water-sharing. And love.

Paperback
Kindle
(as a popular classic, should also be available at your local library)

Let’s read!


Guidelines:
-If you read ahead, use spoiler tags!
text goes here[./spoiler]
-When using spoiler tags, please mark them--put a page or chapter number, or otherwise indicate just how far ahead you are.
-Unspoilered discussion of anything through the latest milestone is allowed and encouraged. If you’re not caught up, read the thread at your own risk!
-Suggestions for the next book club selection are welcome at any time. We'll vote on the next book around the 20th-21st.


Reading Milestones:
Wed 3/2- through end of chapter iv
Fri 3/4- Ch viii (End of Part 1)
Sun 3/6- Ch x
Tues 3/8 - Ch xii
Thurs 3/10 - Ch xiv
Sat 3/12 - Ch xvii
Mon 3/14 - Ch xx
Wed 3/16 - Ch xxi (End of Part 2)
Fri 3/18 - Ch xxiv
Sun 3/20 - Ch xxvii
Tues 3/22 - Ch xxix (End of Part 3)
Thurs 3/24 - Ch xxxi
Sat 3/26 - Ch xxxiii (End of Part 4)
Mon 3/28 - Ch xxxv
Wed 3/30 - End
This book is about twice as long as Flashman, so we'll need to set a faster pace. I've split it up so that we'll read at about 17 pages/day, which should be manageable (just don't fall too far behind!).

As before, each milestone evening I’ll make a post noting how far we should be.


Future Book Club Possibilities:
The Afghan Campaign by Steven Pressfield
The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin
Radio Shangri-La: What I Learned in the Happiest Place on Earth by Lisa Napoli
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
[your recommendation here!]


Previous Book Club Threads:
Flashman, by George MacDonald Fraser (Feb 2011)


(thanks to Flek for the banner!)
 
C

Cyan

Banned
A few notes on the new thread:
-I've kept The Afghan Campaign from the previous thread since it came in second in voting. But do feel free to re-recommend anything from last month that I didn't carry over.
-I'm going to be busier this month than last, so it's possible I'll miss a few milestones. Apologies in advance if that happens.
 
J

justin.au

Member
Really looking forward to reading this one. Hopefully I can finish up American Psycho (my god, what a book) today and Stranger will be my fiction book for the month.

Non-fiction for uni is going to be intense this month :(
 
V

VGChampion

Member
Ooo, you went with the suggestion! Can't wait to read it again.

I tried Flashman but just couldn't get through more than half of the book and always forgot to search for the thread. :p

Bookmarking this one!
 
B

Bananakin

Member
Cool. I'll put this on my list, but I have a few other books I want to get through first. I just found out completely unexpectedly that one of my favourite recent reads has a sequel. Score!
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Ratrat said:
I thought Starship Troopers was Heinleins masterpiece. :( I guess I'll have to read this.
Click to expand...
Heh. That was just the blurb from the back of the book. I've never read it; I have no idea how it really stacks up against his other work.

But by all means read along and find out.
 
B

BigAT

Member
I missed out on last month, but I'm definitely in for March. I've been a bit delinquent on the reading front lately (blame Starcraft II) and this is the perfect excuse to get back in.
 
L

lunarworks

Member
I read this last year after picking it up at a flea market. It was quite good.

Though, towards the end, it degrades into "Hey, everybody, we're all gonna get laid!"
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
Really wish I had time to do this book club thing. How long is the book? I can't usually read around three hundred pages in a weekend if I have no homework. Just happen to have free time next Thursday-Sunday. So I might be able to burn through it.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
Should go Wise Mans Fear for March or April, think it will be very popular when its released.
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Second in a series; don't think it'd really be good for a book club book.

Anyway, this is the March book. ;)

CaptYamato said:
Really wish I had time to do this book club thing. How long is the book? I can't usually read around three hundred pages in a weekend if I have no homework. Just happen to have free time next Thursday-Sunday. So I might be able to burn through it.
Click to expand...
Might be a bit long to burn through quickly. My copy's about 500 pages. But take a look at the library or bookstore and judge for yourself!
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
Also, just a reminder to get the *uncut* version. I guess there's two versions of the book around? It seems pretty easy to find the uncut in stores.

Okay, to start off the discussion:

I think I've been tainted by several of my Goodreads friends warning me that Heinlein is 'weird about his women characters' whatever that means. I can't stop reading too much into how the main woman character behaves in this book.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Heinlein has a sort of unusual style, doesn't he? I've read a few of his books, and his characters tend to have mannerisms and ways of speaking that come of as odd. Maybe it's a product of his time.

Anyway. Well, we start off right into it. Four couples (interesting gender stuff going on here--the inventor of the engine they use is a woman, three of the women are Dr somebody) travel to Mars, they die off leaving behind an infant. Who eventually returns to Earth, having been brought up by Martians.

So far, so wacky.

Mr Smith is a bit of a puzzle. He's clearly supposed to be totally alien in outlook, with grokkings and nests and water-brotherhood. Guess we'll learn a bit more as we go on. The movie studio guy sneaking in to try to trick our martian into signing a contract--think Heinlein had some bad experiences with Hollywood?

Carry on!
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
Yeah, the way his characters talk is definitely odd. It feels almost like a hard boiled detective story or some bad writing in film noir.
 
E

eznark

Banned
nakedsushi said:
Yeah, the way his characters talk is definitely odd. It feels almost like a hard boiled detective story or some bad writing in film noir.
Click to expand...

But only sometimes. Seems like some characters switch into and out of Bogart-mode.

The conversation between the president and his wife made me think of the Clintons at breakfast.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
All right, things seem to be hotting up a little. I got a bit bored of the endless conversations between the reporter and Jill, but it got interesting once the dude was reporter-napped.

Nice to see Jill get a little agency. Bold move to sneak him out like that. I wasn't sure she had it in her! Suppose she'll have to get him to this guy Jubal whatsit that the reporter was going on about. Have to say that so far, I like her better than reporter-man.

And of course, the most interesting question--what's going on with Mike? Did he "discorporate" those two thugs? Hmm...
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Interesting, and presumably intentional contrast between El Presidente (Secretary? whatever it is) and Jubal Harshaw. In the one, we've got the trope of the henpecked husband--bossed around, bullied, blamed. Slightly unusual in that the henpecked husband is the purported most powerful man in the world (the Clintons at breakfast!). Then, in Jubal, we've got the legendary self-made man--masculine, strong-willed, suspicious of government, irresistible to women, yadda yadda (everything Heinlein wishes he could be, no doubt. Wonder what Mrs. Heinlein thought of that...).

Hang on--one of the girls he's watching in the pool is his granddaughter? Um.

Well, it was the sixties.
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
It seems like there isn't that much discussion on this book as there was on Flashman. I wonder why that's so.

As with Flashman, I find Heinlein's treatment of women odd. Or at least, the way his male characters treat the female ones.

Will read on and see if my opinion changes.
 
C

coldvein

Banned
crap. went to the bookstore today and bought something instead of this. i suck. perhaps i'll still be able to get it and get caught up tho.

also, two book club threads, two times nakedsushi is turned off by the way women are treated in the books. let's read enchanted april next month. :D
 
C

Cyan

Banned
nakedsushi said:
It seems like there isn't that much discussion on this book as there was on Flashman. I wonder why that's so.
Click to expand...
Yeah, was noticing that. Maybe I should start posting discussion questions?

As with Flashman, I find Heinlein's treatment of women odd. Or at least, the way his male characters treat the female ones.
Click to expand...
I see a bit of that, but then there can definitely be a priming effect with that sort of thing. Might not have jumped out at you if not for your friends' comments.

Heinlein's treatment of women is a touchy subject. On the one hand, he has a lot of strong female characters, who are often smarter or braver than their male costars. In a lot of ways, he was ahead of his time as far as gender equity.

But not always.

It's worth remembering that the bulk of Heinlein's work predates second wave feminism. He had his own ideas of how male-female equality would manifest itself, how it would look, and in some ways he underestimated it, which of course looks weird to us now. And his later obsession with free love and such didn't do him any favors in that regard.

Ironically, one reason Heinlein gets nailed with the sexism hammer so much while his contemporaries are ignored is that he tended to write more prominent female characters than most male scifi authors of the time.
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
coldvein said:
also, two book club threads, two times nakedsushi is turned off by the way women are treated in the books. let's read enchanted april next month. :D
Click to expand...

I don't think I've ever heard of that book, so let's not =P

Cyan said:
It's worth remembering that the bulk of Heinlein's work predates second wave feminism. He had his own ideas of how male-female equality would manifest itself, how it would look, and in some ways he underestimated it, which of course looks weird to us now. And his later obsession with free love and such didn't do him any favors in that regard.
Click to expand...

Oh, now this brings some of his attitude towards women to light. What I find odd is that I can tell he's *trying* for male/female equality in having both a strong male protagonist and a female protagonist, but they both "get their way" using different means. His female character seems to get things to go her way by making males around her do her bidding and help her, while the male characters are the ones directly doing the action do get their way.

On a lighter note, I think I'm very disturbed by his discomfort in using the word "breast". Is that why he keeps referring to them as mammaries? Or is he just keeping with the scientific jargon in those sections?
 
R

Ratrat

Member
nakedsushi said:
Yeah, the way his characters talk is definitely odd. It feels almost like a hard boiled detective story or some bad writing in film noir.
Click to expand...
I thought so too. Not gritty like Starship Troopers.
I'm only up to V. can't seem to find any time to read though. :(
 
E

eznark

Banned
I've read probably as much as I am likely to read of the book. Just didn't grab me while the two other books I am reading are tough to put down. I feel like I can see where this is going and right now there is nothing I find interesting enough to keep reading to find out how Heinlen gets there.
 
S

Seth C

Member
eznark said:
I've read probably as much as I am likely to read of the book. Just didn't grab me while the two other books I am reading are tough to put down. I feel like I can see where this is going and right now there is nothing I find interesting enough to keep reading to find out how Heinlen gets there.
Click to expand...

I hope you don't let that turn you off to Heinlein. I am a big fan, having read at least a dozen of his books, but I don't like Stranger in a Strange Land (or Starship Troopers, really). I consider it a shame that is the first (and often only) introduction most people get to his writing. For whatever reason though, that is what the literary community seemed to latch on to.


Cyan said:
It's worth remembering that the bulk of Heinlein's work predates second wave feminism. He had his own ideas of how male-female equality would manifest itself, how it would look, and in some ways he underestimated it, which of course looks weird to us now. And his later obsession with free love and such didn't do him any favors in that regard.
Click to expand...

His obsession with free love didn't really come later. It was always there. I assume there just wasn't much of a place for it in his young adult readers. Still, even in For Us, The Living he was clearly thinking about that sort of thing. I'm not sure why he would be criticized for it though. The central woman in that book is the one with the power.
 
M

Maklershed

Member
Does anyone else picture the action in the book taking place in a 1940s detective movie? I see a lot of rain coats and fedoras and such .. all in black and white of course.
 
N

Nappuccino

Member
I remember enjoying the first half of this book... then things took a turn that I, as a freshman in highschool, really couldn't relate to.

And, for that matter, probably still couldn't. I'm tempted to try it again but it really just left a bad taste in my mouth.
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
Maklershed said:
Does anyone else picture the action in the book taking place in a 1940s detective movie? I see a lot of rain coats and fedoras and such .. all in black and white of course.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. Or maybe more Blade Runner-esque. With the Fair Witnesses wearing togas.
 
D

Datwheezy

Unconfirmed Member
Read this a few years ago, and wasnt really a fan of it, but I'm definitely in for next months club though. And I may try to get a hold of Flashman from last month's thread since I missed out on it.
 
A

Apple Sauce

Member
Just a quick question to all of you guys that have the book: How difficult a read is it?
I study English so I have a lot of required reading every week. Any book I read for pleasure is usually powered through in a long afternoon.
Is it even worth me trying to do this or is this book too complex to be read that quickly?
 
M

Maklershed

Member
Very easy read. No hard science at all. And I don't think I've had to use the Kindle's dictionary function yet. (unlike Hyperion where I had to use it every friggin page)
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
Apple Sauce said:
Just a quick question to all of you guys that have the book: How difficult a read is it?
I study English so I have a lot of required reading every week. Any book I read for pleasure is usually powered through in a long afternoon.
Is it even worth me trying to do this or is this book too complex to be read that quickly?
Click to expand...

It's a very easy read in terms of language and vocabulary, but I find certain sections to be dragging just because Heinlein likes being SUPER wordy. Whenever I come to a long non-dialogue section, I skim it, stop at the next dialog point, and see if I missed anything. Most of the time, nope, they're still in the same spot/dilemma plot-wise.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
nakedsushi said:
It's a very easy read in terms of language and vocabulary, but I find certain sections to be dragging just because Heinlein likes being SUPER wordy. Whenever I come to a long non-dialogue section, I skim it, stop at the next dialog point, and see if I missed anything. Most of the time, nope, they're still in the same spot/dilemma plot-wise.
Click to expand...
The dialogue's pretty wordy too. I have to wonder if this uncut version really is better than what was first published.
 
S

Seth C

Member
Cyan said:
The dialogue's pretty wordy too. I have to wonder if this uncut version really is better than what was first published.
Click to expand...

I wonder the same. I haven't ever read the abridged version, but if I decide to give it another read I will choose that one.
 
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