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New Halo 4 Details, Clarifications & No Beta Currently Scheduled

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
The questions were asked by the community on the Waypoint forums:
What do the media mean when they say "perks?" –Krevilz

Well, I think they’re talking about performance-enhancing abilities from Call of Duty, if we’re going to be perfectly honest. I should clarify that we never used the terms “perks,” other than when asked about them. That was a term coined in questions about our admittedly mysterious content.

The systems in Halo 4, and I say that in the plural because there is no single element that defines that aspect of our game, are interconnected and related directly to your in-game experience as a Spartan IV, but they’re not exactly like any specific existing template or scheme. We’ll be explaining more about the Campaign and Multiplayer systems as the year progresses, but suffice it to say that the new features we’re hinting at for Halo 4 will not be mirror images of the stuff they’re being compared to now in online conversations.

Can you elaborate a little more on the armor customization and how it affects gameplay? I'm expecting a vague answer, but anything new on the subject (even a little sliver) would be extremely appreciated. –ZippingFilly812

You will have a wide degree of control over your appearance, of course, but as we have hinted, there will also be elements of your ability and performance as a Spartan IV that you will have some control over, that will actually impact your gameplay experience, although it should be noted this will not allow players to arrive in a game session with what are traditionally called “power weapons” or a massively asymmetrical advantage over opponents. Now, there’s a lot of speculation about how this will affect balance – and when we have more details to share, that experience will start to come into focus, but our philosophy is still to provide a balanced and enjoyable game for all types of players, regardless of skill or experience.

Will there be a public multiplayer Beta, like the Halo 3 and Halo: Reach Betas, where everyday people got to play them? With this being 343's first Halo game and entry in the franchise, it seems like something very important.–UnanimousCrab42

While we are testing Halo 4 code, gameplay, and systems at significant scale to get excellent data, input, and feedback, we are focused on polishing and shipping our experience for the duration of the year, and splitting resources to manage and build a beta is not on our schedule.

Will Armor Abilities and/or Equipment return? –Daedalos42

Without going into too many details, in Halo: CE, you’d fight for control over armor abilities based on timing and map control, and that’s something that evolved over time until it became the Equipment pick-ups in Halo 3 and eventually the Armor Ability loadouts in Reach. Halo 4’s system will be a logical evolution, but based on lessons and inspiration from the (matchmaking) successes and less-than-successes in prior titles.

The HUD shown in the gameplay clips lacks a health bar. Will this change, has this changed, or will Halo 4 use the same health system as the one in Halo 2 and 3? –Gravemind

Health has been changed. There are no health pickups, but we’ll have more news on how that system works in gameplay at a later date.

What will the ranking system be like? –xMcCarthee

It will be altered. More news later.

In the new footage we see the game type set as Slayer yet the score goes up not by individual kills but by points. Is this a custom game? A new Slayer variant? Or is this how the default Slayer scoring is going to be? –zNiTeY

X75zS.jpg


The footage of MP you saw is taken from our internal Network test build and actually features a mashup of various game styles and UI elements, so don’t spend too much time trying to figure out what’s happening in it, because outside of surface elements, it’s not going to teach you a lot about any particular game mode. However, our new implementation of Slayer will score differently than the traditional 0-50 method of yore, and is one of 100 things we’ll share with you more deeply in the coming months.

Does the BR have spread? Is it hitscan? –xBrutaIity

The BR is a three-shot burst weapon. It is hitscan. In its current tuning, it has recoil (not bloom) which causes it to rise slightly (in a predictable and suppressible way). It is not a replacement for the DMR as has been discussed in the community. You will not see bloom as it currently exists in Vanilla Reach on any weapon, but there will be different methods for reticle targeting that vary depending on the weapon, and players will have a wide arsenal of weapons to choose from. More news about that later.


Will there be any Covenant presence in Campaign or Multiplayer? Be it weaponry, equipment, architecture, etc. –Lloyd Jo en es

Yes. The Covenant will definitely return, albeit in a completely (graphically, politically and sonically) overhauled form, but they may be the least of your problems.


Will the mid-construction mech seen on one of the Multiplayer levels appear in some form in the campaign of Halo 4? –Franc and Co

cTmvg.jpg


The Cyclops 2 seen in the center of War House will not be playable. But we will have some vehicle surprises, at least one of which will dwarf that weapon.

Any chance we'll be getting Forge info anytime soon? –Nuclear Taco 42

We will discuss the future of Forge later this year. It will not be sad news.

Will assassinations return and if yes, will we have more unique weapon moves, for example the Energy Sword in Halo: Reach? –D4RKNESS 360

Short version, yes. Assassinations are altered, but they’re back. The weapon question isn’t something we’re going to answer today.

What stage of development are you at currently? –UnrealCh13f

Crunch. We’re finishing levels. Improving perf. Finishing gameplay. Finishing UI. The Campaign is playable from beginning to end. Cinematics are being fully realized. Music is composed, final orchestra sessions are booked. Some levels are graphically polished and beautiful, others waiting their turn in the schedule. Testing and polishing of systems continues. Crunchy.

For the rest of the questions unrelated to gameplay, here is the bulletin.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
although it should be noted this will not allow players to arrive in a game session with what are traditionally called “power weapons” or a massively asymmetrical advantage over opponents
So, my concern here is that they only rule out a "massively asymmetrical advantage" instead of any advantage.

I mean, it's not something I boycott a game over, but it does feel like a pretty significant philosophy change if it's not a balanced trade-off.

I realize they say the hope is to provide a balance, but my only concern would be that this exists at the top of the leveling scale instead of at the start.
 

Homeboyd

Member
So, my concern here is that they only rule out a "massively asymmetrical advantage" instead of any advantage.

I mean, it's not something I boycott a game over, but it does feel like a pretty significant philosophy change if it's not a balanced trade-off.

I realize they say the hope is to provide a balance, but my only concern would be that this exists at the top of the leveling scale instead of at the start.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35831327&postcount=1445
 

Gospel

Parmesan et Romano
Will Armor Abilities and/or Equipment return? –Daedalos42

Without going into too many details, in Halo: CE, you’d fight for control over armor abilities based on timing and map control, and that’s something that evolved over time until it became the Equipment pick-ups in Halo 3 and eventually the Armor Ability loadouts in Reach. Halo 4’s system will be a logical evolution, but based on lessons and inspiration from the (matchmaking) successes and less-than-successes in prior titles.
jetpack jetpack jetpack jetpack jetpack jetpack
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
So, my concern here is that they only rule out a "massively asymmetrical advantage" instead of any advantage.

I mean, it's not something I boycott a game over, but it does feel like a pretty significant philosophy change if it's not a balanced trade-off.
Well David Ellis has stated they're not going to "cock up the basics", they also do state that their is still "to provide a balanced and enjoyable game for all types of players, regardless of skill or experience." But it will be interesting to see the balancing act and how it all unfolds.
jetpack jetpack jetpack jetpack jetpack jetpack
Technically they've been stated as thrusters in H4 and everyone spawns with them(it's part of the Spartan suit now).
 
I dunno how I feel about the Covenant coming back, I was kind of hoping this new trilogy would have a new villain, and yeah she teases "something more threatening to deal with" but weren't the flood the "something more threatening" from the first series? Maybe I'm just reading too much into things but I really want a new threat that isn't flood or covenant and feels different to fight.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I wonder if they'll end up caving and give a beta..

I don't think it's a matter of caving, but rather production scheduling and resources. They're clearly going full-tilt on a very large project, and the non-trivial resources it would take to branch, support and then integrate a public beta don't seem to be available. I can't imagine that would change with single-digit months left on the production schedule.
 
so perks... I get that they're not being called "perks" but they're are "perks". They allow for the customization of gameplay characteristics, and it sounds fucking awful.

this will not allow players to arrive in a game session with what are traditionally called “power weapons” or a massively asymmetrical advantage over opponents.

any assymmetrical advantage(or disadvantage), big or small, is problematic. Anything that reduces the consistency of firefights on the battlefield are problematic, especially in halo which is highly competitive.



That said, the new vehicle seems like it's going to really interesting and awesome addition.
 

zap

Member
I'm going with the wait-and-see approach regarding 'gameplay adjustments'. My hope is that the gameplay will not provide people with no prior record/games/exp/whatever to be put at a disadvantage to those who have played a lot more.
 

Gospel

Parmesan et Romano
Technically they've been stated as thrusters in H4 and everyone spawns with them(it's part of the Spartan suit now).

YES. Though, based on that debut trailer and some off hand comments made not too long ago, i was concerned they would be campaign-only.
 
So, my concern here is that they only rule out a "massively asymmetrical advantage" instead of any advantage.

I mean, it's not something I boycott a game over, but it does feel like a pretty significant philosophy change if it's not a balanced trade-off.

I realize they say the hope is to provide a balance, but my only concern would be that this exists at the top of the leveling scale instead of at the start.

If everything gameplay related is accessible off the start, it would still be technically balanced. Still could be a pretty significant philosophy change though.

More information please! Get that marketing plan in gear.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
I wonder if they'll end up caving and give a beta..
If they don't put out a beta(I'm thinking they won't), I'd love a demo(likely not happening either).
I dunno how I feel about the Covenant coming back, I was kind of hoping this new trilogy would have a new villain, and yeah she teases "something more threatening to deal with" but weren't the flood the "something more threatening" from the first series? Maybe I'm just reading too much into things but I really want a new threat that isn't flood or covenant and feels different to fight.
After the events in H3 I don't really see the covenant being an enemy or at the very least definitely not the main enemy if anything I'd expect them as allies.
so perks... I get that they're not being called "perks" but they're are "perks". They allow for the customization of gameplay characteristics, and it sounds fucking awful.

any assymmetrical advantage, big or small, is problematic. Anything that reduces the consistency of firefights on the battlefield are problematic, especially in halo which is highly competitive.
I think you misread, there won't be any asymmetrical advantage via the system they're talking about.
YES. Though, based on that debut trailer and some off hand comments made not too long ago, i was concerned they would be campaign-only.
The latest video showed the Spartans you play as in MP have thrusters.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Forge, Forge, Forge, Forge. Thats all I care about. :D

Yeah, I'm really interested in what they're doing with Forge, Theater and Firefight. I love me some Campaign and Multiplayer, but those are what I'll likely end up spending most of my time with.
 
Meh

The way I read it is its still perks of some kind. The only way this makes sense is if the matchmaking is so precise you will only match up against like ranks but lets be honest. Nobody has been able to do that.
 

Kinyou

Member
The Cyclops 2 seen in the center of War House will not be playable. But we will have some vehicle surprises, at least one of which will dwarf that weapon.
I hope they're not thinking of making the Scarab drivable. That train has left a long time ago.
 

Raide

Member
Yeah, I'm really interested in what they're doing with Forge, Theater and Firefight. I love me some Campaign and Multiplayer, but those are what I'll likely end up spending most of my time with.

80% of my Reach time was probably spent in Forge. :D I really enjoyed making maps but after several gray looking maps, it gets a bit tiring. Really interested to see what 343i do to make Forge even better. As long as it includes more stuff so I can finish Q3DM17.
 
Will there be any Covenant presence in Campaign or Multiplayer? Be it weaponry, equipment, architecture, etc. –Lloyd Jo en es

Yes. The Covenant will definitely return, albeit in a completely (graphically, politically and sonically) overhauled form, but they may be the least of your problems.

multi_approval.gif
 
No Beta, very stupid. H3 and Reach saw many tweaks and changes in beta. It would also allow 343 to weed out the things the community hates if need be to make the game more receptive. Lets face it, if MP is blown than Halo is dead.
 

Surface of Me

I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
I'd love to see some remnants of the Covenant just rampage through space. Maybe act a bit like the Savage Locust in Gears 3? Most hints seem to point that they will not be the main enemy in the game.
 

Khezu

Member
That's a whole lot of words for basically saying jack shit.

I don't mind armor abilities/perks making a return from Reach as long as they are all unlocked from the start, grinding in shooters is the worst thing ever.

And since the aliens are still in the game in some form I hope that means we can still play as elites.

Also bring back the brute motorcycle thing from halo 3, I missed that so much in reach.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Technically they've been stated as thrusters in H4 and everyone spawns with them(it's part of the Spartan suit now).
Yeah, but we still have no idea how this will work. Reach style jetpack? Slight boost after a jump? A full-on double jump? Maybe it'll function differently in certain conditions like low gravity?

hahaha

That's a whole lot of words for basically saying jack shit.
If you're really into the Halo franchise, there's a whole lot of info and between-the-lines info there.
 
i know bloom isnt popular but I feel it balances the game, other then that it seems they are pretty far into development, sounds like they will have time to thoroughly fine tune everything
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Yeah, but we still have no idea how this will work. Reach style jetpack? Slight boost after a jump? A full-on double jump? Maybe it'll function differently in certain conditions like low gravity?
I don't think it will be exactly like the jetpack after the notoriety it gained for being a map ruiner.

I think it might be a booster for high to reach areas and such, but who knows cause as you've stated we still don't know.
 
I think you misread, there won't be any asymmetrical advantage via the system they're talking about.

No, I didn't miss read.

Anything that creates an assymetrical fighting condition, and isn't available to all players at all times, or isn't directly tied to the level (such as powerups/power weapons), is a problem.

edit: by all players at all times, I mean that there is no requirement to enter a math with it preselected, like perks in cod, or require you to die to change it, like loadouts in reach.

think about it like this.

In halo 3, a player could take fire from the front and side, and if that player knows that his target will die with the next action (be that a headshot, melee, or the timing of a thrown grenade), said player could then premeditate on how to deal with his flanking enemy.

If that target is then given any form of "condition" which changes that fundemental aspect of player control, it "breaks" the comepetitive nature of the game. (even if it's very minor, such as enough shield to handle one extra shot).

In reach, this can be seen with the inability to accurately determine a players movement (sprint/jetpack), if that player has extra defensive capabilities (armorlock) and by the random nature of recoil on weapons(though the fact that "bloom" is to a degree controlable helps limit that aspect).

In the gametypes where all players are given the same ability, this "broken" condition is lessened in that there is an inherent knowledge that an opposing player can use said ability at any time.

If abilities are placed on a map, that "broken" condition changes from an uncontrolable circumstance, to one of player strategy, ie how does one control and benefit from said ability (as seen with equipment/powerups in previous halo games). This set up allows for players to use skill to snowball, which is both a desired and undesired consequence respectively. That said the issue becomes one of level and layout design. It can also be directly influenced by the community (mlg maps in halo 3) or removed all together.
 

Ramirez

Member
No Beta, very stupid. H3 and Reach saw many tweaks and changes in beta. It would also allow 343 to weed out the things the community hates if need be to make the game more receptive. Lets face it, if MP is blown than Halo is dead.

Yea man, from the Reach beta we got:

-Map changes
-Weaker nades
-Tweaked AA's
-Bloom tweaks
-Vehicle overhauls

Oh wait, none of that happened. They made the pistol worse, left the maps untouched, didn't tweak the nades, bloom, or AA's at all. They added some more bullets to the DMR, so I guess it wasn't completely worthless!

Hmm, so it's hard to get the flag out of the base on PH, should we redesign the base, or maybe not give rockets and AL to defenders? NAH, let's just put the flag on top of a random building outside. Ship it.
 

Proelite

Member
Chief plays the same as Spartan IVs for game-play purposes. That probably means that Spartan IVs are better in the fictional universe. It would be cool if we get to fight an evil clone army of Spartan IVs in the campaign, because volunteer Spartan IVs doesn't sound good as antagonists.
 
Chief plays the same as Spartan IVs for game-play purposes. That probably means that Spartan IVs are better in the fictional universe. It would be cool if we get to fight an evil clone army of Spartan IVs in the campaign, because everything related to clones are evil.
I don't delve into lore all that much but it seems like the IIs are the best of the best, the most ideal version of the Spartan program. The IIIs were expendables and made on the cheap for greater quantity, and the IVs are exceptional soldiers that have gone under augmentation and given armour.

So yeah, Chief as a II is still the top dog by being kidnapped as a child and put under rigorous training and modification.

i know bloom isnt popular but I feel it balances the game, other then that it seems they are pretty far into development, sounds like they will have time to thoroughly fine tune everything
Having your shots reduced to a gamble is horrible balance.
 

Proelite

Member
I don't delve into lore all that much but it seems like the IIs are the best of the best, the most ideal version of the Spartan program. The IIIs were expendables and made on the cheap for greater quantity, and the IVs are exceptional soldiers that have gone under augmentation and given armour.

So yeah, Chief as a II is still the top dog by being kidnapped as a child and put under rigorous training and modification.

I was entertaining the idea of an evil clone army of Spartans IV, since cloning is an existing, but not perfect technology in the current Halo universe. It might have been perfected in the 5 years time gap between Halo 3 and Halo 4.
 
No, I didn't miss read.

Anything that creates an assymetrical fighting condition, and isn't available to all players at all times, or isn't directly tied to the level (such as powerups/power weapons), is a problem.
Yep, I read that answer the same way - there will be asymmetries, just not "massive" ones, and hopefully not unbalanced ones. They've definitely got some 'splaining to do, and hopefully we won't have to wait too long for more details.
 
I was entertaining the idea of an evil clone army of Spartans IV, since cloning is an existing, but not perfect technology in the current Halo universe. It might have been perfected in the 5 years time gap between Halo 3 and Halo 4.

I still think it's a forerunner AI that's killing covenant and human soldiers, taking their consiousness', and turning them into spartan IV ai. (like how 343 was created)
 

Hurmun

Neo Member
Hmmmm....no beta? I understand that they are crunched for time, but betas are extremely important for stress testing.

They're really far along though so I'm guessing come E3, we may even see gameplay and/or a full on trailer.

Can't wait.
 
Before I start investing any care in the MP portion I need to know details about the perks and loadouts, right now, I'm pretty cautious.
 

Miles X

Member
'Will there be any Covenant presence in Campaign or Multiplayer? Be it weaponry, equipment, architecture, etc. –Lloyd Jo en es

Yes. The Covenant will definitely return, albeit in a completely (graphically, politically and sonically) overhauled form, but they may be the least of your problems.'

Just what I wanted to hear, can't wait!! (As long as they're not refering to Brutes 0_o)
 

Proelite

Member
'Will there be any Covenant presence in Campaign or Multiplayer? Be it weaponry, equipment, architecture, etc. –Lloyd Jo en es

Yes. The Covenant will definitely return, albeit in a completely (graphically, politically and sonically) overhauled form, but they may be the least of your problems.'

Just what I wanted to hear, can't wait!! (As long as they're not refering to Brutes 0_o)

Skirmishers and drones only.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Chief plays the same as Spartan IVs for game-play purposes. That probably means that Spartan IVs are better in the fictional universe. It would be cool if we get to fight an evil clone army of Spartan IVs in the campaign, because volunteer Spartan IVs doesn't sound good as antagonists.

They aren't better.

II's, so far, the best by training alone. Not sure about the IV's armor though.
 

Hurmun

Neo Member
If they do decide to go more of a Halo 2 route, will they include things like BxR and double shot for old times sake.

....I think I just really miss Halo 2 right now. All I really want is the matchmaking system from Halo 2.
 
Great update, lots of questions answered. That said, we still know little to nothing about the game.

So, my concern here is that they only rule out a "massively asymmetrical advantage" instead of any advantage.

I mean, it's not something I boycott a game over, but it does feel like a pretty significant philosophy change if it's not a balanced trade-off.

I realize they say the hope is to provide a balance, but my only concern would be that this exists at the top of the leveling scale instead of at the start.

I get this and totally agree, that said I think things will become more clear as they reveal more. Rather than be worried about it, Ill just be excited that there is something new to look forward to, and then judge it once we know more. I'm open to changes, as since they have assured classic Halo gameplay will return as well I welcome the idea of change.

I dunno how I feel about the Covenant coming back, I was kind of hoping this new trilogy would have a new villain, and yeah she teases "something more threatening to deal with" but weren't the flood the "something more threatening" from the first series? Maybe I'm just reading too much into things but I really want a new threat that isn't flood or covenant and feels different to fight.

I really don't think the Covenant will be a major enemy during the game, though we may have some clashes with them at points. I imagine they will appear in the game as friend, foe and neutral characters. I would not be surprised if some members of the covenant have allied themselves with the UNSC while other branches remain independent, leading to some interesting complexity.
 

dalVlatko

Member
If they do decide to go more of a Halo 2 route, will they include things like BxR and double shot for old times sake.

....I think I just really miss Halo 2 right now. All I really want is the matchmaking system from Halo 2.

Button combos would be a great addition.

Even though they were glitches in Halo 2, BxR and BxB added a lot to the gameplay. Double shot was a bit much though.
 
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