• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

John Carmack: There will still be lots of 30 fps games next generation

N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
This probably shouldn't be surprising, but I noticed a fair amount of people predicting 60 fps games across the board next generation, so I thought people might be interested in this comment.

Though he kind of implies id's games won't be if I understand him correctly, since he feels it isn't a good trade off.

carmack30fpstbie5.png


Source: https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/204012533143715841
 
BigTnaples

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Anyone who thought otherwise was an idiot.

There will always be people who prefer better graphical features at 30fps, than less graphical features at 60fps.
 
J

JdFoX187

Banned
It happens every generation. People think developers will take the new power and make 60 FPS and they always push the graphical limits instead.
 
S

Shadow Hog

Member
I'd thought many developers had already said as much, honestly.

Good on Carmack for implying he won't follow the trend, though. 60FPS is awesome.
 
O

Orayn

Member
rvy said:
Why must you break my heart, Godmack? Why?
Click to expand...

He's not happy with it, but it's the things are. In spite of its benefits, there aren't many games and genres that absolutely need 60 FPS, so devs will always be trying to get away with less.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Probably the only way we'd see a reliable 60 FPS is if you somehow can provide such a huge jump ahead developers literally don't know HOW to use all of that power and as such default to 60 FPS. And even then they may just get lazy about optimization and it somehow ends up at 30 FPS anyway.
 
Nizz

Nizz

Member
Wouldn't next gen consoles be able to play games like Battlefield 3 looks on PC now at 60fps?
That framerate is what imo gives COD games that slight edge over Battlefield 3 on consoles now.

I'm assuming next gen consoles BF3 could technically run at 60fps so that would be one more checkpoint in DICE's favor as far as feel.
 
O

Orayn

Member
Eusis said:
Probably the only way we'd see a reliable 60 FPS is if you somehow can provide such a huge jump ahead developers literally don't know HOW to use all of that power and as such default to 60 FPS. And even then they may just get lazy about optimization and it somehow ends up at 30 FPS anyway.
Click to expand...

The other option is using a middleware technique where the rendering time for each frame is what you'd use for 30 FPS, but it's displayed at an interpolated 60 FPS. It would probably look nasty and have obnoxious input lag, but mark my words, someone's going to try it.
 
P

pakkit

Banned
vazel said:
It doesn't happen every generation. Dreamcast and PS2 had many 60fps games.
Click to expand...

A lot of Dreamcast's 60 FPS games were a beneficial side-effect of it's NAOMI innards. Arcade games are much more reliably 60 FPS, whereas console gamers value pushing the technology more than silky smoothness.

I don't recall a ton of PS2 games being 60 FPS.
 
N

nextgeneration

Member
2nd post nails it. It will always be like this. That's why I invested in a gaming pc two years ago and haven't looked back. I still play consoles, but pc is my primary system now for games.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
A lot of Dreamcast's 60 FPS games were a beneficial side-effect of it's NAOMI innards. Arcade games are much more reliably 60 FPS, whereas console gamers value pushing the technology more than silky smoothness.
Click to expand...
Right.

What made PS2 impressive, however, was the fact that every genre was represented by 60 fps titles on the platform. Both AAA and low budget titles often delivered a smooth 60 fps on PS2 during its early years.

Once developers started seeking better image quality, however, performance started to drop.

I don't recall a ton of PS2 games being 60 FPS.
Click to expand...
Whoa now, PS2 has, perhaps, the highest percentage of 60 fps 3D games of any console ever made. There are LOADS of 60 fps games on PS2. It's seriously impressive and one of the things that really sold me on the system early on. Now it did so at the expense of image quality but I thought it was worth it.
 
U

UncleSporky

Member
In order to get standard 60 FPS and 1080p next gen, yeah, all devs would have to agree to continue making games with lighting, texturing, and geometry about the same level as this gen. Which would never happen.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
bangai-o said:
neogaf was wrong again. i cant believe it.
Click to expand...

As stated already whoever seriously thought 60fps would be on anything more than a few games they are idiots. Developers will always go for the extra graphics and I'm fine with that as long as they can try to get a stable 30. I have a gaming PC for 60 fps and other stuff.
 
C

cyborg009

Banned
pakkit said:
A lot of Dreamcast's 60 FPS games were a beneficial side-effect of it's NAOMI innards. Arcade games are much more reliably 60 FPS, whereas console gamers value pushing the technology more than silky smoothness.

I don't recall a ton of PS2 games being 60 FPS.
Click to expand...

Ya a lot dreamcast games ran great but last Gen a lot of games ran at 60 fps even MGS2
 
P

pakkit

Banned
dark10x said:
Whoa now, PS2 has, perhaps, the highest percentage of 60 fps 3D games of any console ever made. There are LOADS of 60 fps games on PS2. It's seriously impressive and one of the things that really sold me on the system early on. Now it did so at the expense of image quality but I thought it was worth it.
Click to expand...

I know you're a stickler for the technical aspects of videogames, so I'll take your word for it. I guess Shadow of the Colossus has twisted my memory of the PS2's library.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
pakkit said:
I know you're a stickler for the technical aspects of videogames, so I'll take your word for it. I guess Shadow of the Colossus has twisted my memory of the PS2's library.
Click to expand...
Yeah, SotC runs very poor and lower framerates became more common later in the PS2s life due to attempts at pushing the hardware further.

The first two to three years are loaded with all sorts of 60 fps games. Honestly, I'd say at least 40-50% of the games on the system run at 60 fps. So many random low/mid budget games ran at 60 fps as did a great number of high profile titles.

It was so much more common on PS2 than Gamecube or XBOX (especially XBOX).

Never cared about RAGE. Driving focus in my FPS makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Carmack agrees as Rage is NOT focused on driving at all.
 
M

Man

Member
Rage is an awesome looking game but overall the texture technology was a misstep imo.
It was an honest attempt and I'm glad they did go for it but the on-screen caching / load-in kinda kills it.
Carmack is so right in going for 60fps though, good man.

Edit: And yes, the PS2 was the golden era for 60fps games. Just made sense with the type of tech the hardware pushed best.
 
dummydecoy

dummydecoy

Member
All games to run at 60fps is ideal. I sure hope the 30fps games next gen would do exactly that and not a frame lower with zero screen tear. Too many games ruined this gen.
 
N

nincompoop

Banned
Most Nintendo games on Wii are 60 fps, which is one of the main reasons why the Wii was the only console worth owning this gen. Hopefully that trend continues with the Wii U.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I'm surprised that people always think that 60fps is going to be a standard when a new gen rolls out. As much as I would love for this to happen it's never going to happne. Still, I hope that next gen will have a higher frequency of 60fps, at least as much as last gen.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Man said:
Rage is an awesome looking game but overall the texture technology was a misstep imo.
It was an honest attempt and I'm glad they did go for it but the on-screen caching / load-in kinda kills it.
Carmack is so right in going for 60fps though, good man.
Click to expand...
I actually think the texture idea is very forward looking but the hardware just isn't there yet.

When viewed from a distance, the level of variety is simply stunning and well beyond anything else out there. There isn't a single repeating texture anywhere on the screen which results in this feeling of a fully hand painted scene rather than one made up of swaths of textures repeated across the geometry.

Most Nintendo games on Wii are 60 fps, which is one of the main reasons why the Wii was the only console worth owning this gen. Hopefully that trend continues with the Wii U.
Click to expand...
The only console worth owning? You've got to be shitting me.
 
BigTnaples

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
dark10x said:
I actually think the texture idea is very forward looking but the hardware just isn't there yet.

When viewed from a distance, the level of variety is simply stunning and well beyond anything else out there. There isn't a single repeating texture anywhere on the screen which results in this feeling of a fully hand painted scene rather than one made up of swaths of textures repeated across the geometry.
Click to expand...


Indeed, when the hardware catches up the tech used in Rage will be fully realized and jaws will drop.
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
The difference seems pretty obvious when you play a game that changes between 30fps and 60fps for different modes.

For example, going from 1-player in Mario Kart Wii to 4-player. I definitely noticed it there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RoadtoVR: John Carmack Has Doubts About PSVR 2’s Chance for Success
5 6 7 8 9
428
19K
Eddie-Griffin replied
EA Hopes to Use Generative AI to Drive Monetization and Make Development 30% More Efficient
Opinion Business Game Dev
27
2K
radewagon replied
Déjà Vu: Is PS5's Performance Mode a Rehash of the Early HD Debacle?
Opinion 2
53
3K
Gojiira replied
[Prima Games] Starfield Should Have a 60 FPS Performance Mode
Opinion News Drama 2 3 4 5 6
275
16K
Kenneth Haight replied
Sony Is Reportedly Improving Reprojection Tech For PSVR 2 Games That Run At 60 FPS
News VR Hardware
7
1K
Crayon replied
Top Bottom