• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dying Daughter's Health Insurance Cut By Wells Fargo

Status
Not open for further replies.

Measley

Junior Member
Apologies if already posted.

Yovany Gonzalez's Wells Fargo Lawsuit Alleges Bank Fired Him, Cut Dying Daughter's Health Insurance

"Wells Fargo allegedly fired an employee because his dying daughter needed expensive cancer treatment, according to a lawsuit filed in Palm Beach County Court on Thursday.

Wells Fargo fired mortgage consultant Yovany Gonzalez three days before his daughter Mackenzie was scheduled to get cancer surgery in August of 2010, the lawsuit states. According to the suit, the hospital canceled the surgery because Mackenzie no longer was covered by health insurance. She died of cancer in March of 2011.

Before Gonzalez was fired, Wells Fargo and United Health Care, the health insurer, asked Gonzalez's wife "numerous questions" about Mackenzie's treatment and made "several references ... to the costs of her treatment," the lawsuit states. Around that time, Gonzalez's supervisor told Gonzalez that Wells Fargo was looking for reasons to get rid of him, according to the lawsuit.

"This was a loss of an innocent child's life," Jack Scarola, Gonzalez's lawyer, told The Huffington Post. "There were [some] Wells Fargo employees who not only lacked compassion but seemed to have been motivated by entirely improper concerns about finances."

Wells Fargo, for its part, is defending itself against the allegations. "While we're very sympathetic to Mr. Gonzalez for his personal loss, his termination was unrelated to the allegations included in the lawsuit," said Bridget Braxton, a spokesperson for Wells Fargo, in a statement. "We intend to vigorously defend the matter in court. We support and value our team members and our employment practices are in alignment with that focus."

Wells Fargo claimed to fire Gonzalez because he allegedly had falsified his time records, according to the lawsuit. But his supervisor had input the time records and said it was fine that he could not always remember the exact hours he worked, the lawsuit says. After Mackenzie was diagnosed with cancer in December of 2008, Gonzalez started working in other locations because of her cancer treatment.

The lawsuit details that Wells Fargo also did not give Gonzalez information about how to continue his family's life insurance coverage -- information he was promised after he was fired, leading to the expiration of his plan. The coverage included life insurance on the lives of his children, according to the lawsuit. As a result, Gonzalez's life insurance policy expired before Mackenzie died, and Gonzalez was not able to receive life insurance compensation for Mackenzie's death.

While you are entitled to extend your employer health insurance coverage under the COBRA law if you lose your job, as long as you pay the full premium, it took more than 90 days for Wells Fargo to send Gonzalez information about how to extend his health insurance policy under COBRA, said paralegal Walter Stein, who is helping represent Gonzalez.

A charity eventually paid for Gonzalez's premium on his behalf so that he could get a year of health insurance coverage under COBRA, Stein said.

Gonzalez started working in 2007 for Wachovia, which Wells Fargo bought in 2008 during the financial crisis. He now is working at Chase Bank for less pay than he could earn with securities registration, according to the lawsuit. The suit says Chase is not letting Gonzalez sell securities because of the reasons that Wells Fargo gave for firing him."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...onzalez_n_1751461.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

TYT vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sib-bKfAmMc&feature=player_embedded

Healthcare for profit ftw!
 

squall211

Member
You know, when "Obamacare" first passed, I got all caught up in the OMG THE GUBMENT'S GUNNA TAKE OVER UR LIFE" hoopla. But shit, seeing stories like these makes me glad the supreme court upheld the law.


Oh, right, and fuck you Wells Fargo.
 

squall211

Member
"While we're very sympathetic to Mr. Gonzalez for his personal loss, his termination was unrelated to the allegations included in the lawsuit,"


Translation: "We had to come up with a bullshit, petty reason to fire him so we could cancel his insurance and not pay for his dying kid's surgery".
 

Wilsongt

Member
Wait... I thought companies gave you like a time period window after you are fired verses when your coverage is actually terminated?
 

KevinCow

Banned
I don't see a problem with this. It's only a human life. Who cares about a poor person's life when it means a rich person gets to save a few bucks?
 

FyreWulff

Member
For some reason I'm not surprised, Wells Fargo is pretty well known as being shitheels even at the base public banking level.
 

Cyan

Banned
This story doesn't make sense--isn't it the insurance company that would bear the costs? What financial motivation would WF have to fire him?
 
This claim just doesn't make any sense. Wells Fargo has hundreds of thousands of employees, costs are spread across the entire workforce. More than that, with that many workers, his daughter isn't the only one facing expensive medical treatment. Is Wells Fargo going to fire all of them? Beyond that, he would have been eligible to continue his insurance via COBRA.

I'm sorry for his loss and sorry he lost his job, but this lawsuit seems absurd.
 
This story doesn't make sense--isn't it the insurance company that would bear the costs? What financial motivation would WF have to fire him?

WF likely has a self funded health plan. The insurance company is what is called a third party administrator in such a case.

Also, believing one side of a story based largely on a plaintiff's complaint is pretty silly, but it won't stop most of the posts in this thread from being about how evil WF is.
This claim just doesn't make any sense. Wells Fargo has hundreds of thousands of employees, costs are spread across the entire workforce. More than that, with that many workers, his daughter isn't the only one facing expensive medical treatment. Is Wells Fargo going to fire all of them? Beyond that, he would have been eligible to continue his insurance via COBRA.

I'm sorry for his loss and sorry he lost his job, but this lawsuit seems absurd.

Yes, seems quite unlikely on its face. WF has tens of thousands of employees, thousands of which are undoubtedly undergoing more expensive treatment than this.
 

Hale-XF11

Member
This claim just doesn't make any sense. Wells Fargo has hundreds of thousands of employees, costs are spread across the entire workforce. More than that, with that many workers, his daughter isn't the only one facing expensive medical treatment. Is Wells Fargo going to fire all of them? Beyond that, he would have been eligible to continue his insurance via COBRA.

I'm sorry for his loss and sorry he lost his job, but this lawsuit seems absurd.

It's possible he didn't know about COBRA. You'd be surprised by how many people are unaware that it's an option, especially if their employers don't even educate them on the subject, which some don't.
 

Wolfe

Member
I thought premiums don't really go up for an employer otherwise you would see discrimination against large people or smokers.

Yeah I got no idea I was just trying to toss out a possible explanation, either way as someone that is close to a person with a medical issue and has to deal with her employer and insurance on a constant basis, I have a hard time not siding with the guy that got fired.

But as always all the info is what we do not have.
 

Ganhyun

Member
For some reason I'm not surprised, Wells Fargo is pretty well known as being shitheels even at the base public banking level.

I had tons of issues with BB&T and Wells Fargo has been nothing but good service for me.

Either way, if it can be proven that the reason he was fired was due to his daughter's condition then Wells will have to pay for it. Also, I'm pretty sure the taking longer than 90 days to get hm the information about the life insurance will hurt them.
 

alphaNoid

Banned
Wild thread title means the majority of posters won't even read the article, and assume Wells is guilty of murdering a child.
 

pigeon

Banned
This claim just doesn't make any sense. Wells Fargo has hundreds of thousands of employees, costs are spread across the entire workforce. More than that, with that many workers, his daughter isn't the only one facing expensive medical treatment. Is Wells Fargo going to fire all of them? Beyond that, he would have been eligible to continue his insurance via COBRA.

The article specifically addresses COBRA -- they claim they didn't receive COBRA continuation information within 90 days, which would itself be illegal. In either case, though, he'd still have to wait and reschedule the surgery, and cancer surgeries are often time-sensitive.
 
It's possible he didn't know about COBRA. You'd be surprised by how many people are unaware that it's an option, especially if their employers don't even educate them on the subject.

COBRA rights are required by law to be delivered to the employee, and you can retroactively sign up for it during the entire COBRA period. Anyone who thinks a large company like wells doesn't have a compliant cobra admin is fooling themselves.
 

Cat Party

Member
I really doubt the firing had anything to do with the surgery. Seems more like a terrible coincidence.

I mean, the bank isn't even paying for the surgery. They're just providing the insurance.
 
For everyone (like the post above this one for example) questioning why Wells would care about cost:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-funded_health_care
Self-funded health care is a self insurance arrangement whereby an employer provides health or disability benefits to employees with its own funds.[1] This is different from fully insured plans where the employer contracts an insurance company to cover the employees and dependents.[1] In self-funded health care, the employer assumes the direct risk for payment of the claims for benefits. The terms of eligibility and coverage are set forth in a plan document which includes provisions similar to those found in a typical group health insurance policy. Unless exempted, such plans create rights and obligations under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 ("ERISA").

Many employers seek to mitigate the financial risk of self funding claims under the plan by purchasing stop loss insurance from an insurance carrier. These policies typically provide for risk retention limitations both on a specific claim and aggregate claims basis. An important aspect of self funded group health plans lies in the requirement that the employer remain liable for funding of plan claims regardless of the purchase of stop loss insurance. What this means, in turn, is a fund or company's own bank account creates a pool of their employees and is managed & distributed to claim payouts. In other words, only the employer has a contractual relationship with plan participants and beneficiaries. The stop loss policy runs solely between the employer and the stop loss carrier and creates no direct liability to those individuals covered under the plan. This feature provides the critical distinction between fully insured plans (subject to State law insurance regulations) and self funded health plans which, under the provisions of Section 514 of ERISA, are exempt from State insurance regulations.

Stop loss policies are effective for large corporations with large losses. The stop loss feature is most cost effective for large companies, typically Fortune 500 companies with over 10,000 employees.
 
He now is working at Chase Bank for less pay than he could earn with securities registration, according to the lawsuit. The suit says Chase is not letting Gonzalez sell securities because of the reasons that Wells Fargo gave for firing him.

Real "reason" for the lawsuit. Right there.
 

Amir0x

Banned
That's the problem with the fucked up state of health care in the country. Even if he DID get fired for reasons unrelated to his daughters health care issues, SHE SHOULD HAVE STILL BEEN COVERED
 
There seems to be a lot of important details missing. I'll await further information.

I'll need to see an overwhelming amount of evidence that his daughter's health care plan was the primary reason for termination. Will others come forth?
 

pigeon

Banned
That's the problem with the fucked up state of health care in the country. Even if he DID get fired for reasons unrelated to his daughters health care issues, SHE SHOULD HAVE STILL BEEN COVERED

Yeah, this. Even if he got fired for a totally justifiable reason -- should that mean his daughter dies?
 
Even thinking about it more, I still can't get my head around it.

It says the hospital cancelled the surgery. Even if you accept the fact he didn't know about COBRA, wouldn't the hospital?

I want to not be cynical, but this is 2012 America.
 

Mudkips

Banned
COBRA rights are required by law to be delivered to the employee, and you can retroactively sign up for it during the entire COBRA period. Anyone who thinks a large company like wells doesn't have a compliant cobra admin is fooling themselves.

Yup. The only thing I can see being a sticking point is if Wells Fargo really didn't get him the necessary information for 90 days. But even then the hospital would have known about his COBRA eligibility and helped him get his stuff together.

A registered letter saying "I need my COBRA information ASAP or my daughter will die of cancer and it will be Wells Fargo's fault." would have gotten the ball rolling extremely quickly.

And his employer pays for that insurance right?

And the rates are negotiated well in advance if done through an insurance company, or funded though a massive account (with insurance backing in case of hugely unexpected outlays) if entirely self-funded by the company.

Real "reason" for the lawsuit. Right there.

That, and this, unfortunately.

The coverage included life insurance on the lives of his children, according to the lawsuit. As a result, Gonzalez's life insurance policy expired before Mackenzie died, and Gonzalez was not able to receive life insurance compensation for Mackenzie's death.

Regardless, even if the guy was missing a lot of work or had a sporadic schedule (this is my guess based on the comment about the inaccurate time cards), it's shitty for Wells Fargo to fire him without first discussing the issue and the continuation of his health insurance (under COBRA).

But since we have only one side of the story we don't know what WF actually did.

Even thinking about it more, I still can't get my head around it.

It says the hospital cancelled the surgery. Even if you accept the fact he didn't know about COBRA, wouldn't the hospital?

I want to not be cynical, but this is 2012 America.

I can see the hospital automatically canceling the surgery upon being notified his coverage was dropped. But the instant the hospital contacted him and he said he was fired, someone would have brought up COBRA. For me to take the guy's story at face value I have to believe that Well's Fargo are jerks and morons who left themselves open to a doozy of a lawsuit, AND that there isn't a single competent person in the hospital he could reach.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Yeah, this. Even if he got fired for a totally justifiable reason -- should that mean his daughter dies?

Exactly.

People against a single payer system genuinely hate their fellow humans - there's no other explanation. Everyone gets sick. HEALTH CARE should not be a for profit industry. People have one life to live, and having to be concerned and be stressed because their health care might not cover their specific illness or because they don't have health care at all is absurd. It's counter to what any civil modern society should be aiming for.

My mom has had health insurance for ages, and due to her recent illness she went close to being bankrupt. It took the generosity of neoGAF to put a safety net there for her future health.

America is Neanderthal-ish in regards to its health care policy
 

Cat Party

Member
For everyone (like the post above this one for example) questioning why Wells would care about cost:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-funded_health_care
Self-funded health care is a self insurance arrangement whereby an employer provides health or disability benefits to employees with its own funds.[1] This is different from fully insured plans where the employer contracts an insurance company to cover the employees and dependents.[1] In self-funded health care, the employer assumes the direct risk for payment of the claims for benefits. The terms of eligibility and coverage are set forth in a plan document which includes provisions similar to those found in a typical group health insurance policy. Unless exempted, such plans create rights and obligations under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 ("ERISA").

Many employers seek to mitigate the financial risk of self funding claims under the plan by purchasing stop loss insurance from an insurance carrier. These policies typically provide for risk retention limitations both on a specific claim and aggregate claims basis. An important aspect of self funded group health plans lies in the requirement that the employer remain liable for funding of plan claims regardless of the purchase of stop loss insurance. What this means, in turn, is a fund or company's own bank account creates a pool of their employees and is managed & distributed to claim payouts. In other words, only the employer has a contractual relationship with plan participants and beneficiaries. The stop loss policy runs solely between the employer and the stop loss carrier and creates no direct liability to those individuals covered under the plan. This feature provides the critical distinction between fully insured plans (subject to State law insurance regulations) and self funded health plans which, under the provisions of Section 514 of ERISA, are exempt from State insurance regulations.

Stop loss policies are effective for large corporations with large losses. The stop loss feature is most cost effective for large companies, typically Fortune 500 companies with over 10,000 employees.

The stop loss would have triggered in a case like this, wouldn't it?
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Even thinking about it more, I still can't get my head around it.

It says the hospital cancelled the surgery. Even if you accept the fact he didn't know about COBRA, wouldn't the hospital?

I want to not be cynical, but this is 2012 America.

Was it a private, for profit hospital?

That would explain their actions.
 
Even thinking about it more, I still can't get my head around it.

It says the hospital cancelled the surgery. Even if you accept the fact he didn't know about COBRA, wouldn't the hospital?

I want to not be cynical, but this is 2012 America.

Exactley. It is also completely normal for a company's HR department to reach out and communicate with employees over unusual health insurace situations. Heath providers tell you that you are responsible for finding out what is or is not covered. Children with cancer is a situation where you should expect some calls and questions from a good employer to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Hospitals do not cancel life saving surgeries due to lack of insurance. My brother had dialysis, wound clinic treatments, and several surgeries for the last 2 years of his life and never paid a cent out of pocket. It was all Medicare/Medicaid.
 

Zoe

Member
Wait... I thought companies gave you like a time period window after you are fired verses when your coverage is actually terminated?

That window can be very small. The bf's was cut off the day after he was let go. The time before that he had the rest of the month.

COBRA is different though. He definitely would have qualified for COBRA (though it's very expensive).

This story doesn't make sense--isn't it the insurance company that would bear the costs? What financial motivation would WF have to fire him?

Our premiums are going up next year because all of the employees are using more services than we're paying for. It's probably a similar thing here.
 

Dibbz

Member
How can anyone seriously believe that the guy was fired for not filling out his time sheet correctly? What a shit excuse to come up with.
 
Agreed with whoever said no matter what reason he got fired the daughter should not have had to suffer. Almost makes me want to move to Britain so I don't have to deal with shit like this when I become a doctor. I saw a lady today who basically has to choose between paying her electric bill and getting her blood pressure medicine. Fuck the assholes who are holding our healthcare system back
 
How can anyone seriously believe that the guy was fired for not filling out his time sheet correctly? What a shit excuse to come up with.

I do. We just had an employee of 20+ yrs let go last week for the same thing. Raise a red flag and you start getting watched. Confirm the suspicions in any way, you're gone. Employers assume you've been fucking them since day one.
 

Measley

Junior Member
I do. We just had an employee of 20+ yrs let go last week for the same thing. Raise a red flag and you start getting watched. Confirm the suspicions in any way, you're gone. Employers assume you've been fucking them since day one.

So your company fires people if they have an illness in the family that prevents them from working a normal schedule?
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
This story doesn't make sense--isn't it the insurance company that would bear the costs? What financial motivation would WF have to fire him?
Yeah ... I'm really confused by this.




And his employer pays for that insurance right?
They pay a percentage of your premiums. An individual being sick has no direct affect on the premium price.




The only way this makes any sense is if Wells Fargo is actually their insurance provider as well. If that's the case, I'm shocked a corporation would allow that on business ethics grounds since it's a conflict of interests.
 

jey_16

Banned
So they cancelled the surgery because she had no insurance? The government doesn't provide anything at all? Please tell me I'm wrong because I can't understand why then people would be against Obama's healthcare reforms
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom