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Is Sony's corporate culture in the right place to ensure PS4 is a success?

D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Sony's corporate culture is a shambles right now, and has been for years. Once a pioneer in practically everything they've touched, Sony has lost ground in every facet of their business endeavors, up to and including their once dominant gaming division.

At one time Sony was at the forefront of electronics technology - they were automatically associated with the best in electronics, and their decision making and relationships with developers and third parties with the original Playstation is still heralded as the reason for the platform's monumental success.

Fast forward to today. and Sony appears to be in shambles. They have been eclipsed by Samsung as the paramount of electronics technology, and ceded their once iron grip on the videogame front to Nintendo and Microsoft. There are many reasons for this, but I think chief among them are Sony's lack of focus and direction.

Vita is a perfect example of this - it is a platform that has no identity, no major strong suit to separate it from its competitors. It's a reflection of Sony themselves -Jack of all trades, master of none. The Move is another - a "me too" knee jerk reaction that lacked any discernible foundation besides what already existed. Even PSN is a reaction to the mega popular XBOX Live. Sony's once masterful relationships with third parties is now more attributed to their similarities with their competitors than it is their dominance of the marketplace.

I focus on their culture because that is what primarily drives a corporation and their business operations. Looking at Sony's internal structure with the brief windows we have, they appear to be a massive bureaucracy with no focused leadership.

My question to GAF is, considering what we've seen with present day Sony, can we naturally assume there will be a change with the PS4 when it debuts? Will the PS4 kick off a change in culture and philosophy towards a more directed, ultimate goal that the entire company wants to achieve, or will it continue on with the also ran, "me too" habits that Sony of late have adopted?
 
entremet

entremet

Member
I'm surprised they didn't secure Monster Hunter on the Vita. Who was sleeping at the wheel there?

I think they will fine, but they're far from the juggernaut of the PS2 era. I doubt will ever see that Sony.
 
H

HocusPocus

Member
It is interesting to see the changes they are making. Those are most evident this holiday when they have nothing on the shelf that will draw new buyers. If I see a PS3 commercial on TV now then I know it must be for a multiplatform game.

Perhaps the failure of the VITA has humbled them. I think that's what they need to be honest. They need to get back to being the underdog, and push gaming and not tech.
 
D

Dr. Feel Good

Banned
entrement said:
I'm surprised they didn't secure Monster Hunter on the Vita. Who was sleeping at the wheel there?

I think they will fine, but they're far from the juggernaut of the PS2 era. I doubt will ever see that Sony.
Click to expand...

Capcom is a business too. Why wouldn't they want their star franchise on the platform with the most sales potential?
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Sony's big problem is that they assumed they'd always be top tier and therefore could get away with charging top tier pricing. If the economy had stayed good, they may have even gotten away with it for longer... but when money is tight, and you look at 2 TVs on the display floor and one looks only slightly better, but comes with twice the cost........

Yeah... That pretty much sums up everything of theirs.
 
V

V_Ben

Banned
I think they've been learning their lessons from the PS3 launch for a while now, but the real question is if their marketing is in the right place to ensure that the PS4 is a success. The Vita and PS3 both had fairly lacklustre marketing, and that really hurt them.
 
SpinningBirdKick

SpinningBirdKick

Banned
Sony really dropped the ball with their handling of the PS3.

They demonstrated that they learned nothing from that experience with the fumbled Vita.

I have no faith in them what so ever to spec, price, launch and support the PS4 as required.

I won't even consider buying it until at least 18 months after launch. There's no way I'll be "buying on potential".

Don't tell, show me that you know what you're doing this time Sony.

Words are cheap.
 
A

AOC83

Banned
BlackJace said:
It come down to price, price, price.
Click to expand...

No. The price was only part of the problem when we look at the Vita/PS3 launch.

What they need is a combination of a reasonable price, powerful hardware, a working concept and first an foremost exclusive must have games.
 
R

REMEMBER CITADEL

Banned
I don't expect any huge changes, but at the same time, I believe PS4 can be a success for them. It depends on your definition of "success", however. They'll have a tough time taking the lead again (although it's not out of the realm of possibility), but being less ambitious and concentrating on PS4 making them some money? Sure.
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
Kaz decided to leave the TV market by investing further in it. So no its not in the right place.

Doesn't mean it won't be a success though; unlike TV Sony can still be competitive - they just have to copy MS to stay in the game quite frankly. Personally I think they should be moving towards Nintendo but I don't see this happening at all.
 
C

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
PS3 came one year late and was more expensive than the Xbox. This wont happen this time, so i doubt Sony will screw up the PS4.
 
B

BlackJace

Member
AOC83 said:
No. The price was only part of the problem when we look at the Vita/PS3 launch.

What they need is a combination of a reasonable price, powerful hardware, a working concept and first an foremost exclusive must have games.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The average consumer isn't looking for powerful hardware. The first thing they will see is the price tag, and unlike most of us here, they won't have knowledge of specs beforehand to justify the asking price.
 
M

Massa

Member
In my opinion both the PS4 and Xbox 720 are going drop in sales compared to the PS3 and 360. That Sony is a complete mess, specially in North America, certainly doesn't help their case.
 
D

davidsaurus

Member
It'll be tough to shake this console system, since a lot of people have an infrastructure of friends that all have xbox's and gamertags it'll take a lot to convert those people.
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
davidsaurus said:
It'll be tough to shake this console system, since a lot of people have an infrastructure of friends that all have xbox's and gamertags it'll take a lot to convert those people.
Click to expand...

At the right price and right games this is not an issue. Anyway people keep acting like MS hasn't dropped the ball in the second half of this gen. PS3 is no gamecube and 360 is no PS2.
I don't think people put that much value on a friends list anyway.
 
A

AOC83

Banned
BlackJace said:
I disagree. The average consumer isn't looking for powerful hardware. The first thing they will see is the price tag, and unlike most of us here, they won't have knowledge of specs beforehand to justify the asking price.
Click to expand...

The average costumer will see what the hardware is capable of through advertising/internet/friends etc. He won´t buy a new console if the games look barely better than on his then almost a decade old PS3/360.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Dr. Feel Good said:
Capcom is a business too. Why wouldn't they want their star franchise on the platform with the most sales potential?
Click to expand...

Most definitely. But have their been any reports about Sony even trying to secure Monster Hunter for the Vita?

The game saved the PSP in Japan and gave it momentum to secure more development support.
 
M

Mutanthands

Member
Billiechu said:
Well he couldn't just cancel the thing or remake it. It was too late.
Click to expand...

Kaz was in charge of the department responsible for the Vita before he was CEO, so it's still on him.

I worry that Sony is still too hidebound and fragmented to really push the PS4 where it needs to be. And the rumors about a 2014 launch worry me. They can't prosper by launching after Microsoft and Nintendo.
 
C

Concept17

Member
HocusPocus said:
It is interesting to see the changes they are making. Those are most evident this holiday when they have nothing on the shelf that will draw new buyers. If I see a PS3 commercial on TV now then I know it must be for a multiplatform game.

Perhaps the failure of the VITA has humbled them. I think that's what they need to be honest. They need to get back to being the underdog, and push gaming and not tech.
Click to expand...

They were humbled with the PS3 launch. They have been pushing "gaming" far more than the other 2 companies. They don't need to be 'humbled' by the Vita launch, they need a marketing team worth a damn.
 
R

REMEMBER CITADEL

Banned
Massa said:
In my opinion both the PS4 and Xbox 720 are going drop in sales compared to the PS3 and 360. That Sony is a complete mess, specially in North America, certainly doesn't help their case.
Click to expand...

I can see that happening only if the next generation turns out being much shorter than this one (it won't), and even then it doesn't necessarily have to work out that way.
 
O

offshore

Member
Billiechu said:
Well they have a new CEO. The Vita is old Sony. The PS4 will be new Sony.
Click to expand...
Vita is old Sony? I don't think so. The very design of Vita was "new" Sony i.e. no lush arch., easier to dev for, nice price, etc, and look how well badly it's done.

There are question marks all over the place about how PS4 will turn out.
 
B

BlackJace

Member
AOC83 said:
The average costumer will see what the hardware is capable of through advertising/internet/friends etc. He won´t buy a new console if the games look barely better than on his then almost a decade old PS3/360.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting this from? People on gaming forums and gaming sites, and people in general who follow gaming news are but a small minority in the consumer demographic.

Many of my friends who play games don't even know what's in the system that they own now.
 
O

Oersted

Member
More F2P, more online subscribtions, less physical copies and more cloud gaming (via cellphones, PS4 etc.). At the end of the day they are a company in favor of commercial success.
 
A

AOC83

Banned
BlackJace said:
Where are you getting this from? People on gaming forums and gaming sites, and people in general who follow gaming news are but a small minority in the consumer demographic.

Many of my friends who play games don't even know what's in the system that they own now.
Click to expand...

And as i said, they don´t need to. They want the games/consoles because they like what they see.
 
B

BlackJace

Member
AOC83 said:
And as i said, they don´t need to. They want the games/consoles because they like what they see.
Click to expand...

This generation was the leap into the HD era, and apparently people were blown away by the launch games right?
Obviously people liked what they saw, but $599 was too much to ask for. Even with the gigantic leap we saw in visuals.

And look at the 3DS price drop, people are willing to hold out on things they want until the price is within their range. I'm sure the Vita would see an increase in sales if a price drop was enacted.
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
BlackJace said:
This generation was the leap into the HD era, and apparently people were blown away by the launch games right?

Obviously people liked what they saw, but $599 was too much to ask for. Even with the gigantic leap we saw in visuals.
Click to expand...

PS3 wasn't a gigantic leap over the cheaper 360 though.

That's the problem. The mainstream doesn't care about last gen or the comparative leap in visuals. They care about what they're getting for a good price. For the first 3 years of its life, the 360 was in all facets a better deal for people that wanted a better looking console.
 
A

AOC83

Banned
BlackJace said:
This generation was the leap into the HD era, and apparently people were blown away by the launch games right?

Obviously people liked what they saw, but $599 was too much to ask for. Even with the gigantic leap we saw in visuals.
Click to expand...

I wasn´t arguing that 599 wasn´t too much for the PS3. But that wasn´t only because of the price itself but also the competition which offered better graphics (Gears of War and others) and better online for 200 bucks less at this point.
 
P

pswii60

Member
I don't think anybody outside Sony expected Vita to be a commercial success. The fact that they repeated all the mistakes of the PSP - and in an even more competitive market than ever before - was beyond baffling.

Whether PS4 avoids repeating the same mistakes of the PS3 remains to be seen, but it's an amazing U-turn in confidence that I had for the company compared to latter of their glory days around 2004/2005. And it's not the fault of Nintendo or Microsoft, it's all their own doing.
 
B

BlackJace

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
PS3 wasn't a gigantic leap over the cheaper 360 though.

That's the problem. The mainstream doesn't care about last gen or the comparative leap in visuals. They care about what they're getting for a good price. For the first 3 years of its life, the 360 was in all facets a better deal for people that wanted a better looking console.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's my argument. Average Joe gamer doesn't care about the specs and bells n' whistles the gaming community talks about.

He'll walk into Gamestop, see the PS4, say "Oh sweet, PS4!" He'll then see the price tag (if it's outrageous) and most likely walk away, hoping to return later in hopes of a price drop.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Billiechu said:
I voted for Obama
Click to expand...

Me too, the joke setup was too good for me to resist though -_- It just wasn't very funny.

Video games are a very visual experience, like with movies... In the end people can like them even if they don't have those visual effects, but it can draw them in at first... so they do need to push them at least on some level.

Nintendo can get away with it simply because "Hey, it's Zelda in HD" and I agree with them, that's enough for me.
 
RSLAEV

RSLAEV

Member
Is it in the right place now? From my POV it still isn't. It may be changing as we speak and hopefully they'll have turned this ship in the right direction before the PS4 launches.
 
T

Takao

Banned
Vita's problems stem from software. The software that would make people buy a Vita just isn't there. It isn't there because A) Western developers have never cared about traditional handhelds, and B) Japanese developers have a cheaper platform to develop on with a larger userbase in 3DS. This isn't the case with PS4. Western devs are all about pushing the technological envelope. Console games are too expensive to keep exclusive so PS4's guaranteed third party support by virtue of it being a platform that can run a third party's games. Vita should be seen as a good thing from Sony's hardware design of it. It's the easiest platform SCE has ever made in terms of being able to develop software on, and it seems they're continuing that tradition onwards with PS4. This would mean third party developers are not going to go through the same struggles they did on PS3 with getting games to run properly.
 
S

somuchwater

Member
After Vita, it's hard to have faith in Sony. Their new approach to hardware is great - but their inability to have the guts to NOT make a portable showed some incredible myopia and stubbornness.

The only thing that could make the PS4 a success is something really promising in terms of an online community and online services. Sony have demonstrated that they are always playing catch-up when it comes to those ideas, and I highly highly doubt we're going to see anything innovative in terms of controls/interaction.

So, no, nothing about the leadership atm instills confidence. I just hope there's enough of a traditional hardcore market to continue to support at least one major console.
 
T

thuway

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Sony's corporate culture is a shambles right now, and has been for years. Once a pioneer in practically everything they've touched, Sony has lost ground in every facet of their business endeavors, up to and including their once dominant gaming division.

At one time Sony was at the forefront of electronics technology - they were automatically associated with the best in electronics, and their decision making and relationships with developers and third parties with the original Playstation is still heralded as the reason for the platform's monumental success.

Fast forward to today. and Sony appears to be in shambles. They have been eclipsed by Samsung as the paramount of electronics technology, and ceded their once iron grip on the videogame front to Nintendo and Microsoft. There are many reasons for this, but I think chief among them are Sony's lack of focus and direction.

Vita is a perfect example of this - it is a platform that has no identity, no major strong suit to separate it from its competitors. It's a reflection of Sony themselves -Jack of all trades, master of none. The Move is another - a "me too" knee jerk reaction that lacked any discernible foundation besides what already existed. Even PSN is a reaction to the mega popular XBOX Live. Sony's once masterful relationships with third parties is now more attributed to their similarities with their competitors than it is their dominance of the marketplace.

I focus on their culture because that is what primarily drives a corporation and their business operations. Looking at Sony's internal structure with the brief windows we have, they appear to be a massive bureaucracy with no focused leadership.

My question to GAF is, considering what we've seen with present day Sony, can we naturally assume there will be a change with the PS4 when it debuts? Will the PS4 kick off a change in culture and philosophy towards a more directed, ultimate goal that the entire company wants to achieve, or will it continue on with the also ran, "me too" habits that Sony of late have adopted?
Click to expand...

Ahh its Deaconknowledge again.
 
O

Oersted

Member
BlackJace said:
This generation was the leap into the HD era, and apparently people were blown away by the launch games right?
Obviously people liked what they saw, but $599 was too much to ask for. Even with the gigantic leap we saw in visuals.

And look at the 3DS price drop, people are willing to hold out on things they want until the price is within their range. I'm sure the Vita would see an increase in sales if a price drop was enacted.
Click to expand...

I thought we all had realised that the 3DS was not only due to the price drop. LoZ OoT, NSMB 2 and exclusive Monster Hunter played their part.
 
B

BlackJace

Member
AOC83 said:
I wasn´t arguing that 599 wasn´t too much for the PS3. But that wasn´t only because of the price itself but also the competition which offered better graphics (Gears of War and others) and better online for 200 bucks less at this point.
Click to expand...

Why has "Five Hundred and Ninety Nine US Dollars" become a meme? That was all anybody was discussing after that E3 event. That price was ridiculous, even if it offered such pretty visuals.

You can argue that some folks flocked to the 360 because of slightly better visuals, but I don't think you can argue that being $200 cheaper wasn't the core reason.
And again, the 360 had slightly better graphics, why would the average consumer muse over that in comparing the two systems? They compared the price tags. Nothing more.

Lastly, look at the Vita's E3 reveal. It was a huge blow to Nintendo when the Vita's retail price was $249, the same price as the rival handheld with inferior tech/visuals.

Oersted said:
I thought we all had realised that the 3DS was not only due to the price drop. LoZ OoT, NSMB 2 and exclusive Monster Hunter played their part.
Click to expand...
Games, yeah I guess that's a viable point, but I'm sure more people were chanting that the system was not worth $250, and that Ninty needed a price drop ASAP.
 
MrMephistoX

MrMephistoX

Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Sony's corporate culture is a shambles right now, and has been for years. Once a pioneer in practically everything they've touched, Sony has lost ground in every facet of their business endeavors, up to and including their once dominant gaming division.

At one time Sony was at the forefront of electronics technology - they were automatically associated with the best in electronics, and their decision making and relationships with developers and third parties with the original Playstation is still heralded as the reason for the platform's monumental success.

Fast forward to today. and Sony appears to be in shambles. They have been eclipsed by Samsung as the paramount of electronics technology, and ceded their once iron grip on the videogame front to Nintendo and Microsoft. There are many reasons for this, but I think chief among them are Sony's lack of focus and direction.

Vita is a perfect example of this - it is a platform that has no identity, no major strong suit to separate it from its competitors. It's a reflection of Sony themselves -Jack of all trades, master of none. The Move is another - a "me too" knee jerk reaction that lacked any discernible foundation besides what already existed. Even PSN is a reaction to the mega popular XBOX Live. Sony's once masterful relationships with third parties is now more attributed to their similarities with their competitors than it is their dominance of the marketplace.

I focus on their culture because that is what primarily drives a corporation and their business operations. Looking at Sony's internal structure with the brief windows we have, they appear to be a massive bureaucracy with no focused leadership.

My question to GAF is, considering what we've seen with present day Sony, can we naturally assume there will be a change with the PS4 when it debuts? Will the PS4 kick off a change in culture and philosophy towards a more directed, ultimate goal that the entire company wants to achieve, or will it continue on with the also ran, "me too" habits that Sony of late have adopted?
Click to expand...


It's a very good question because they clearly have better first party content than Microsoft when it comes to console exclusives but I haven't seen anything from Kaz Hirai that will rock the boat too much. Sony is still a company with great individual divisions that have a total lack of synergy. Who knows maybe they'll surprise us with a solid strategy for your own Playstation One, PS2, and PS3 streaming library through GAIKAI. PS Plus could be huge too if they ingrane it with their marketing plan next gen: they need something big to differentiate the console next gen like that to capture more casual players who aren't automatically in MS's back pocket by virtue of being tied to their Xbox Live purchases, points and gamerscore.
 
H

H_Prestige

Banned
I think the ps4 will be like the vita: a generic piece of hardware that looks good on paper and has no defining characteristic. As long as MS and Nintendo don't knock it out of the park, it should sell decently, just based on the fact that it exists and will most likely have all the major games.

It's a very good question because they clearly have better first party content than Microsoft when it comes to console exclusives but I haven't seen anything from Kaz Hirai that will rock the boat too much. Sony is still a company with great individual divisions that have a total lack of synergy.
Click to expand...

Better for who? Certainly not Sony. MS' first party is way stronger, money wise. Halo is more valuable than anything Sony has.
 
C

Chibits12

Banned
Sony needs to realize that brand value alone will no longer carry their products toward success in the future. They should know this by now. The videogame industry is not like what it was a decade ago when PS2 was king. Heck, even if Samsung comes up with a gaming system that has plenty of third party support for a good price count me in. I just hope that the industry doesn't stagnate like in the early 80's like what happened with Atari.
 
B

BlackJace

Member
H_Prestige said:
I think the ps4 will be like the vita: a generic piece of hardware that looks good on paper and has no defining characteristic. As long as MS and Nintendo don't knock it out of the park, it should sell decently, just based on the fact that it exists and will most likely have all the major games.



Better for who? Certainly not Sony. MS' first party is way stronger, money wise. Halo is more valuable than anything Sony has.
Click to expand...

This is the reason why exclusives will be as important as ever.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
DeaconKnowledge said:
My question to GAF is, considering what we've seen with present day Sony, can we naturally assume there will be a change with the PS4 when it debuts? Will the PS4 kick off a change in culture and philosophy towards a more directed, ultimate goal that the entire company wants to achieve, or will it continue on with the also ran, "me too" habits that Sony of late have adopted?
Click to expand...
Well, so far the closest thing to a vision they've had is cinematic single-player heavy games, which does do pretty well in the review circuit and forums like NeoGAF, but not so great in the "software that sells consoles, preferably at the 5-10+ million unit per game level".

As it currently stands, they have three franchises that still ship and/or sell 5-6 million units with Gran Turismo, Uncharted, and God of War, but they have by far the biggest first party development and second party publishing operation of any console maker.

Since they're not targeting Nintendo, I feel they need to try and take Microsoft head on in the 5-10+ million selling multiplayer focused game category, and they need to do it early and often next generation, along with release at least two of their 5-6 million selling existing series in the first year of the system's life.

I'm not sure if they actually have the staff that can do this, but they should certainly be making it a huge focus even if they need to go to currently successful multiplayer studios and try to poach as much staff as possible.
 
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