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Nirolak · Mar 16, 2013

Given recent events, I thought some people might want to weigh in with their opinions on Gamasutra's satire piece about the burden of dealing with entitled gamers.

Here's the front page intro to the article:

Gamasutra said:
'I've had it with lazy devs' - a forum-goer puts a studio on notice

You made a good game, it ships, but your audience expects more. An entitled player brings a torch and pitchfork to the forums in this all-too-accurate satire from Game Developer magazine.

Here is the banner image for their article:

Article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...devs__a_forumgoer_puts_a_studio_on_notice.php

Question: Do you feel this is a fair and accurate (as far as satire goes) representation of "entitled players"/people who criticize games on forums, or does it miss the mark?

Edit 1: My question is not "Is lazy devs a dumb argument?" since I feel it definitely is, but rather if this satire is actually driving home a strong point about the topic of "entitled players" as a whole, or if it is painting them in a narrow light without really making a strong point about them. I feel the point of satire is usually to use hyperbole to drive some sort of poignant message under the covers, and my question is if people think this is. I'm not weighing in either way since I'm legitimately curious about people's perspectives here.

Edit 2:

arne has offered up the following articles for context of the recurring column this piece occurred in, and it's also useful if people want to debate this on the more broadbase level of the column in general:

arne said:
How can satire be "fair and balanced"? For me, that statement is kindling right there.
All of Matt Wasteland's satire articles take the joke to hyperbolic extremes for the sake of laughs, and because there's a little bit of truth to it under the layers.

check out his other stuff:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...oid_Getting_Caught_In_Managerial_Rhetoric.php

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/110765/Humor_Excerpts_From_Development_Books_That_Never_Were.php

Takes it to extremes for the punch line.

I laughed at his current article, but I know we've all seen too many "I quit this forum because of X or until Y happens!" but mostly because that's least productive way to express your dissent. I mean, the way that they pretend to be writing this article, half of part of the post content would get you banned or taken to the cleaners by more knowledgeable folks on gaf anyway.

*shrug*

EmCeeGramr · Mar 16, 2013

All I'm going to say is that this was awkwardly timed.

tnaden · Mar 16, 2013

As a skinny, beardless gamer with perfect vision I'm offended!

epmode · Mar 16, 2013

Someone in the comments thread says this article was written before the SimCity mess. I hope that's true.

orznge · Mar 16, 2013

Gamasutra isn't entitled to my click

rohlfinator · Mar 16, 2013

Was this ghost-written by Lucy Bradshaw?

They make a couple decent points, but it has all the professionalism of a GameFAQs poster. Worst thing I've seen out of Gamasutra in a long time.

noobasuar · Mar 16, 2013

The satires stupid.

We actually bitch about games that are fundamently broken and get shit on by developers/publishers/game journalists/community for not supporting thier lazy game design and not feeding thier poor starving families.

orznge · Mar 16, 2013

"Consumers, please be more stupid."

nckillthegrimace · Mar 16, 2013

Yeah, I guess "satire" is one word for what they're doing.

denshuu · Mar 16, 2013

Accurate.

Unfortunately, the people who need to read it either won't bother reading or will get their feelings hurt a third of the way through and go back to their echo chambers.

EvilKatarn · Mar 16, 2013

Nirolak said:

Looks about right. Though my arms are way smaller. I have the wrists of a 10 year old girl, I can't even wear a watch without it sliding over my fist.

But seriously, fuck them and fuck off with the whole entitled gamer act. Publishers like to act like they're entitled to my money when they really aren't.

orznge · Mar 16, 2013

denshuu said:
Accurate.

Unfortunately, the people who need to read it either won't bother reading or will get their feelings hurt a third of the way through and go back to their echo chambers.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

ThreePiMatt · Mar 16, 2013

It goes both ways. Stroll into any official forums for a game and the amount of vitriol and entitlement will be enough to make your head spin. Really, any time someone makes a blanket statement like "the devs don't care" or "they should learn how to code" or "they clearly didn't test this" it makes me angry. But at the same time, this SimCity fiasco has gone to show that the other side can be just as moronic

GiantBreadbug · Mar 16, 2013

It's accurate for the folks it's trying to describe. GAF has some, as well as every other message board community ever. But the people described in the satire are not the majority, fortunately. It's just that the bitching voices of those few tend to be louder than the more reserved, reasonable criticisms of the industry given by the many.

That's the way I see it.

Sadist · Mar 16, 2013

Seems like a Gamefaqs post. Or the occasional crazy GAF'er. So yeah, seems somewhat acurate.

Thank god I'm not like that.

Brawndo Addict · Mar 16, 2013

I read the whole article but I felt it was a bit too specific in its "complaints" if it was supposed to be lampooning entitled gamers in the abstract. Is it supposed to be referencing the sim city debate? Or is it about people who complain about MMO content? It really isn't that funny or accurate to the real world issues it should presumably be based on, unless it is just meant to make fun of the most hyperbolic and illogical of posters. Very low hanging fruit, even if those kinds of posters make up the majority of some communities. We should be ignoring that kind of discourse entirely not engaging with it.

Lord_Nergal · Mar 16, 2013

Unfortunately, the "customers" have the "money" which is what the "developers" are out to get. If the "customers" don't like what the "developer" offers, the "customer" has the right to share their "opinion".

Unnecessary quotation marks.

cuyahoga · Mar 16, 2013

epmode said:
Someone in the comments thread says this article was written before the SimCity mess. I hope that's true.

Well, it obviously was, as it appeared in this month's issue of Game Developer, which would've been printed last month probably. I would guess they put it up on the site given how appropriate it is at the moment.

It's great, and I think it nails the absurdity of this stuff on the head.

Kayhan · Mar 16, 2013

I am deeply offended. I have supermodel good looks and I don't appreciate the ugly stereotypes.

ezekial45 · Mar 16, 2013

ThreePiMatt said:
It goes both ways. Stroll into any official forums for a game and the amount of vitriol and entitlement will be enough to make your head spin. Really, any time someone makes a blanket statement like "the devs don't care" or "they should learn how to code" or "they clearly didn't test this" it makes me angry. But at the same time, this SimCity fiasco has gone to show that the other side can be just as moronic

I agree.

mrklaw · Mar 16, 2013

This piece is very careful to have suggestions from forums not taken up by the devs, and the vitriol stems from there.

If it'd been 'oh the devs promised this coop mode and haven't delivered for xx months now' it'd have been different, but as it stands its difficult to argue with.

Luckily I don't come across this kind of behaviour very often - I guess I avoid those forums or threads.

REMEMBER CITADEL · Mar 16, 2013

Nirolak said:
Question: Do you feel this is a fair and accurate (as far as satire goes) representation of "entitled players"/people who criticize games on forums, or does it miss the mark?

No, the reality is much worse.

BHK3 · Mar 16, 2013

That looks nothing like my avatar.

Veezy · Mar 16, 2013

Entitlement has become a dirty word, for some odd reason. People are allowed to feel entitled. That doesn't mean you actually are, per se, but it's not a negative thing.

I, as a consumer, am entitled to use a product I exchanged currency for. I, as a consumer, am entitled to have a product work as described and intended.

So, devs, you're god damn right the consumers of your product feel entitled to use your product just like any other service they'd pay for. I buy a toaster to make toast and I'm entitled to have that expectation. When it doesn't work, the toaster company doesn't give me shit about being angry.

I mean, fuckin' a.

EmCeeGramr · Mar 16, 2013

EmCeeGramr said:
All I'm going to say is that this was awkwardly timed.

Alright, I lied.

Yes, there are tons of times when forum posters act like it's far easier to do complex things than in reality. However, trying to tie this ignorance to people complaining about impossible features that were never promised by the developers is obviously less accurate and biting.

Aaron · Mar 16, 2013

Consumers are paying for the games. They're entitled for a decent product, and included in that is being entitled to complain when it doesn't meet their standards. How publishers and the gaming press have turned 'entitled' is the biggest insult from this whole mess.

orznge · Mar 16, 2013

is there any industry in which consumers are as bad at self-interest as the gaming industry

Open Source · Mar 16, 2013

It was published in the issue of Game Developer I got in late Feb.

So obviously not a SimCity reference.

TrickRoom · Mar 16, 2013

My first thought upon seeing that article was that nothing good could come out of this for any side.

TL4E · Mar 16, 2013

Veezy said:
Entitlement has become a dirty word, for some odd reason. People are allowed to feel entitled. That doesn't mean you actually are, per se, but it's not a negative thing.

I, as a consumer, am entitled to use a product I exchanged currency for. I, as a consumer, am entitled to have a product work as described and intended.

So, devs, you're god damn right the consumers of your product feel entitled to use your product just like any other service they'd pay for. I buy a toaster to make toast and I'm entitled to have that expectation. When it doesn't work, the toaster company doesn't give me shit about being angry.

I mean, fuckin' a.

Exactly.

Being entitled doesn't mean much when your sense of entitlement can easily be ignored.

prwxv3 · Mar 16, 2013

ThreePiMatt said:
It goes both ways. Stroll into any official forums for a game and the amount of vitriol and entitlement will be enough to make your head spin. Really, any time someone makes a blanket statement like "the devs don't care" or "they should learn how to code" or "they clearly didn't test this" it makes me angry. But at the same time, this SimCity fiasco has gone to show that the other side can be just as moronic

Pretty much this.

TaroYamada · Mar 16, 2013

I don't feel entitled gamers exist, for themost part I think they are satirizing uninformed gamers. That type of poster would be ridiculed on gaf for such ignorant posts.

HolyBaikal · Mar 16, 2013

So, can I not buy games I don't like and not be entitled, please?

FryHole · Mar 16, 2013

orznge said:
is there any industry in which consumers are as bad at self-interest as the gaming industry

Was just about to post this, plus a follow-up - is there any other industry in which the customer is as openly derided? The latter may be a consequence of the former.

ronito · Mar 16, 2013

Waa waa hobbyist consumers want to be listened to waa waa they want quality products waa

Man gamasutra has gone downhill

LuchaShaq · Mar 16, 2013

Don't want gamers to be entitled? 1 month period from purchase date for 100% refund no questions asked.

Don't like it? Stop being entitled devs who aren't confident in their work.

Gamasutra is a joke either way.

I mean they employee Leigh Alexander of all people. Might as well hire a literal clown.

iammeiam · Mar 16, 2013

ThreePiMatt said:
It goes both ways. Stroll into any official forums for a game and the amount of vitriol and entitlement will be enough to make your head spin. Really, any time someone makes a blanket statement like "the devs don't care" or "they should learn how to code" or "they clearly didn't test this" it makes me angry. But at the same time, this SimCity fiasco has gone to show that the other side can be just as moronic

Stroll into any forum for any form of entertainment anywhere and this is likely to be going on; musicians have sold out, authors have lost sight of the story and are chasing the dollar, TV show writers are either pandering too hard to one portion of the fanbase or not pandering hard enough. It's just the other side of the crazy fan admiration coin.

The article is careful to construct a gamer who can only be viewed as entitled, demanding things that weren't part of the game and were never supposed to be. It doesn't say anything new, and isn't funny or amusing, but it's not terribly offensive either.

noobasuar · Mar 16, 2013

Also I think developers/publishers are trying to follow a certain criteria in trying to make a succusful game instead of just trying to make something fun and interesting and hoping for the best. Instead we have games that are focused tested to hell and end up being medicore garbage because they want to make sure that someone without hands is also able to complete the game.

It's like if video games were soccer and whoever was in charge of soccer decided that the goal posts had to be three times as wide just to help get more people playing soccer and expand the audience. Well the people that play soccer are going to say fuck that because they play soccer to be competitive and have fun from that rule set and are going to end up moving on to some other sport. And then the people in charge of soccer will bitch and moan about these players just acting like they're "entitled" and that's the reason for the blame.

Alucrid · Mar 16, 2013

I think it's a poorly written and thought out article.

AppleMIX · Mar 16, 2013

LuchaShaq said:
Don't want gamers to be entitled? 1 month period for 100% refund no questions asked.

Don't like it? Stop being entitled devs who aren't confident in their work.

Gamasutra is a joke either way.

I mean they employee Leigh Alexander of all people. Might as well hire a literal clown.

How is that not completely open to abuse?

Anyways, yes and no. Their is obviously legitimate grievances with games but their is also a load of nonsense that people use to down talk a game.

Kusagari · Mar 16, 2013

The video game industry is the only industry where the press thinks the consumers don't have the RIGHT to be entitled.

I am the one buying your games, I am entitled to demand more and more. Especially if you're charging me $60 a pop and then want to nickel and dime me for DLC.

Open Source · Mar 16, 2013

FryHole said:
Was just about to post this, plus a follow-up - is there any other industry in which the customer is as openly derided? The latter may be a consequence of the former.

I'm not going to comment on the wisdom of mocking your customers, but do some of them deserve it? Hell yes. Pretty much anyone who uses the term "lazy devs", for instance.

SonicMegaDrive · Mar 16, 2013

I don't know if I'm 'entitled'.

But I do know that I only buy games that I like to play, and don't buy games that I don't.

On the plus side, I don't spend too much time whining on forums about games that I don't play.

I'm just a guy that knows what he likes.

dr_octagon · Mar 16, 2013

(to paraphrase Stewart Lee)

If only there was some way of eliminating the gamers from the equation. If it were the game developers and the reviewers in an endless self congratulatory loop.

Muchi Muchi Pink · Mar 16, 2013

Lord_Nergal said:
Unfortunately, the "customers" have the "money" which is what the "developers" are out to get. If the "customers" don't like what the "developer" offers, the "customer" has the right to share their "opinion".

Unnecessary quotation marks.

Agreed. Seems to be a new trend to give the people who actually buys these products the fault for everything.

Of course there is people who tend to overact, but this is present in every hobby or discussion.

This article is boring and even the banner screams "cheap hits".

DocSeuss · Mar 16, 2013

What is it with journalists and developers constantly trying to create straw men or only point out the worst commenters they can find to justify themselves?

The best journalists and developers seem to be the guys who, y'know, don't do this.

fallagin · Mar 16, 2013

Oh shit, people feel entitled to things they pay for. No friggin way.

synce · Mar 16, 2013

I think the term "entitled gamer" is funny. Gamers are customers and the customer is always right.

Kuro Madoushi · Mar 16, 2013

how DARE gamers demand offline play!? You don't want online all the time. We didn't design it that way. It's better for you to play it online.

nckillthegrimace · Mar 16, 2013

ronito said:
Waa waa hobbyist consumers want to be listened to waa waa they want quality products waa

Man gamasutra has gone downhill

Kusagari said:
The video game industry is the only industry where the press thinks the consumers don't have the RIGHT to be entitled.

I am the one buying your games, I am entitled to demand more and more. Especially if you're charging me $60 a pop and then want to nickel and dime me for DLC.

I can't wait for next week's companion article: "Entitled Gamer Refuses to Thank Giant Corporation for Shitting in his Mouth."

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