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sn00zer · Mar 16, 2014

I think its entirely in reaction to their 2005 PS3 reveal. As the PS4 reveal was literally the exact opposite of the PS3 reveal. Sony I think has put some pretty strict rules with prerelease footage and whether or not devs can match that footage. They got really (rightfully) burned in 2005 for showing off CG trailers and claiming them to be gameplay, then burned again with the MGS4 reveal, but so far everything they have shown for PS4 has either matched or improved upon release. They started this trend with the Uncharted 2 E3 reveal, but since then have fully embraced it for PS4 marketing.

They also seem to be straying away from CG entirely. I would be hard pressed to find any CG footage in any first party advertising that wasnt obviously live action.

I think Watch_Dogs has taught pubs a valuable lesson on backlash for showing off early footage that doesnt match the final game. Its 2014 where old and new footage is easily avaiable and shown to millions of viewers. Hopefully more devs follow suit or there are going to be a lot more threads and news stories about downgradetons in the future.

(Still waiting on more The Order stuff, but they certainly matched the reveal trailer with the gameplay trailer.)

eighty(one) · Mar 16, 2014

Sony of 2013/14 learned harsh lessons from Sony 2005:

Killzone 2 E3 CG as gameplay = backlash

Midou · Mar 16, 2014

eighty(one) said:
Sony of 2013-2014 learned harsh lessons from Sony 2005-2006:

Killzone 2 E3 CG as gameplay.

Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

Dead Prince · Mar 16, 2014

and then you see #driveclub started trickling videos and images. look where that got them.

sn00zer · Mar 16, 2014

DMPrince said:
and then you see #driveclub started trickling videos and images. look where that got them.

They got Forza'd like Watch_Dogs got GTA'd....I really think they went back to target 60fps

Lactose_Intolerant · Mar 16, 2014

Midou said:
Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

hahaha

ghst · Mar 16, 2014

so did the games come out in 4k in the end?

considering how much everyone hated the xbone scaler's crushed blacks, you all sure love that infamous screenshot.

Abdul Hafeez · Mar 16, 2014

It's also a good decision because you don't have to pay Blur millions of dollars to produce a few minutes of CG.

EightBitNate · Mar 16, 2014

Midou said:
Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

No, not at all.

Bloodrage · Mar 16, 2014

Midou said:
Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

Let's be serious here. No. And they learned from it.

TomShoe · Mar 16, 2014

I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.

― Friedrich Nietzsche

No wonder I'm getting increasing cynical after every EA/Ubisoft release.

RealityPales · Mar 16, 2014

I thought they dropped the ball with the latest Order 1886 footage, to be honest.

nbnt · Mar 16, 2014

Someone is going to post that U3 image.

Yeah I like that, they still do bullshots as in rendering screenshots at a much higher resolution and then downsampling them to eliminate the jaggies, but nothing crazy like Ubishots.

shwimpy · Mar 16, 2014

sn00zer said:
They got Forza'd like Watch_Dogs got GTA'd....I really think they went back to target 60fps

What does this even mean? Why would Sony care about what Forza is doing?

chadskin · Mar 16, 2014

ghst said:
so did the games come out in 4k in the end?

Sure.*

*Available on TVs with 4K upscaler.

8 X 11 Printer Paper · Mar 16, 2014

Lactose_Intolerant said:
hahaha

Melchiah · Mar 16, 2014

ghst said:
so did the games come out in 4k in the end?

considering how much everyone hated the xbone scaler's crushed blacks, you all sure love that infamous screenshot.

When was 4K promised for PS4 games?

eighty(one) · Mar 16, 2014

Midou said:
Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

In a lot of ways, sure - but for 2005:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-4HNmuEAKg

This was groundbreaking and some (most) of the things from this trailer, is still impossible today, on the newest systems.

Uno Venova · Mar 16, 2014

ghst said:
so did the games come out in 4k in the end?

considering how much everyone hated the xbone scaler's crushed blacks, you all sure love that infamous screenshot.

you always seem bitter lately

Replicant · Mar 16, 2014

Melchiah said:
When was 4K promised for PS4 games?

Never. It's ghst. Look at his tag.

Squalor · Mar 16, 2014

RealityPales said:
I thought they dropped the ball with the latest Order 1886 footage, to be honest.

I mean, it looked good, but there wasn't much to show in the twenty-seconds of gameplay, especially since ten of those seconds were QTE gameplay.

The rest of it just looked like a standard third-person shooter.

It wasn't much to go on, of course, but I have faith in Santa Monica.

Chamber · Mar 16, 2014

sn00zer said:
They got Forza'd like Watch_Dogs got GTA'd....I really think they went back to target 60fps

Hope not, I want this DriveClub.

Squalor said:
It wasn't much to go on, of course, but I have faith in Santa Monica.

You should have faith in Ready at Dawn.

sn00zer · Mar 16, 2014

shwimpy said:
What does this even mean? Why would Sony care about what Forza is doing?

There was a pretty big backlash when Driveclub was announced to be targetting 30 fps....I would advise googling it...because Forza was doing comparable specs of 1080/60 (regardless of how they cut corners to get there)...so people were disappointed that Driveclub wasnt doing the same....the game was supposed to be a LAUNCH title and theyve still gone on black out for the past few months

LookAtMeGo · Mar 16, 2014

RealityPales said:
I thought they dropped the ball with the latest Order 1886 footage, to be honest.

Not the best gameplay showing no, but they did manage to live up to the graphics being as good as the E3 revealed showed.

todd360 · Mar 16, 2014

Melchiah said:
When was 4K promised for PS4 games?

PS4 4k 1 fps master race.

Get on my level!

gigantor21 · Mar 16, 2014

Squalor said:
I mean, it looked good, but there wasn't much to show in the twenty-seconds of gameplay, especially since ten of those seconds were QTE gameplay.

The rest of it just looked like a standard third-person shooter.

It wasn't much to go on, of course, but I have faith in Santa Monica.

Ready at Dawn is developing it, not Santa Monica. I thought they were the main team working on GoW for a while because of the PSP games, though, so I can't blame you.

Anteater · Mar 16, 2014

Melchiah said:
When was 4K promised for PS4 games?

I think he's talking about the infamous screenshots that look like they were downsampled from 4k resolution, which (I think?) are technically "bullshots"
(I understand they are for prints)

Dead Prince · Mar 16, 2014

sn00zer said:
There was a pretty big backlash when Driveclub was announced to be targetting 30 fps....I would advise googling it...because Forza was doing comparable specs of 1080/60 (regardless of how they cut corners to get there)...so people were disappointed that Driveclub wasnt doing the same....the game was supposed to be a LAUNCH title and theyve still gone on black out for the past few months

sounds about right. can't have the xbox one outdo them in the racing genre.

Squalor · Mar 16, 2014

gigantor21 said:
Ready at Dawn is developing it, not Santa Monica. I thought they were the main team working on GoW for a while because of the PSP games, though, so I can't blame you.

I know that Santa Monica is only publishing it.

I'm saying that I have faith in their judgement of Ready at Dawn's ability.

Melchiah · Mar 16, 2014

Replicant said:
Never. It's ghst. Look at his tag.

It seems to be a pretty common misconception though, as I've also seen it being mentioned by some of my friends/acquaintances on FB. People not-in-the-know probably just assumed that Sony's 4K rhetoric included the PS4 games, and some may use that assumption as ammunition when there are no 4K games.

Metal_slime · Mar 16, 2014

Yeah they clearly don't want backlash from nerds who buy games for lighting engines.

Figboy79 · Mar 16, 2014

Squalor said:
I know that Santa Monica is only publishing it.

I'm saying that I have faith in their judgement of Ready at Dawn's ability.

Sony's publishing it, not Santa Monica. Santa Monica has an interesting role in the grand scheme of SCEA as being tech wizards, often helping out developers in small ways here and there throughout the development process. They aren't a publisher. I imagine that their involvement in The Order is very minimal. Ready at Dawn has also said as much.

ButchCat · Mar 16, 2014

It's really simpler than you think. One game (WD) is cross-gen and on multiple platforms while the other is developed solely for a single platform.

SneakyStephan · Mar 16, 2014

Midou said:
Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

not this again
no , not even close
maybe a killzone on the ps7 will have the smoke effects of that trailer, and maybe one on the ps5 will have the polygon counts

Zen · Mar 16, 2014

To be fair KIllzone is one of the best examples of the merger of art and tech in the history of the medium. It is absurdly good looking and so different stylistically from the original CG trailer that it can absolutely look better without pushing those kinds of effects.

Midou said:
Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

Artistically, though not technically (obviously).

serversurfer · Mar 16, 2014

Pet peeve: Jack never claimed Killzone was real-time; he was talking about Resistance.

Watch the interview again. Yes, Kieghly was asking about Killzone, but his segue was clumsily worded, and Jack thought they were still talking about Resistance. That's why he finished his response with, "But yeah, Ted [Price] wanted me to assure you guys that was all real time."

It's been years since I watched it myself, so those may not have been his exact words, but he was definitely talking about Resistance because he named Ted as the one who wanted it mentioned.

BruiserBear · Mar 16, 2014

I definitely commend Sony for going this route. They caused themselves a lot of headaches with all their PS3 fakery early on.

This screenshot really makes me want to buy Second Son.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd....31/1655456_10203498791089558_1214241031_o.jpg

travisbickle · Mar 16, 2014

ghst said:
so did the games come out in 4k in the end?

considering how much everyone hated the xbone scaler's crushed blacks, you all sure love that infamous screenshot.

Can everyone educate themselves on "crushed blacks" and stop fuckin' equating it to images with a dark setting. It's embarrassing!!

dugdug · Mar 16, 2014

BruiserBear said:
I definitely commend Sony for going this route. They caused themselves a lot of headaches with all their PS3 fakery early on.

This screenshot really makes me want to buy Second Son.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd....31/1655456_10203498791089558_1214241031_o.jpg

Yep. That shot tipped me over the edge from rent to buy.

Shining Sunshine · Mar 16, 2014

Midou said:
Didn't Killzone end up looking better in the final game than original videos?

Despite what other people think and laugh to, I think KZ2 looked better than that CG trailer.

killu4what · Mar 16, 2014

SneakyStephan said:
not this again
no , not even close
maybe a killzone on the ps7 will have the smoke effects of that trailer, and maybe one on the ps5 will have the polygon counts

To me it atheistically looks better. Of course there are things happening in the trailer that might be impossible to accomplish on PS3. Not counting polygons or anything like that. Just looking at it. Killzone was on par with the trailer graphically. Gameplay is a different story. I guess effects fire and smoke were better in the trailer as well. But its certainly not laughable to think the final game looked better. In my opinion of course.

Edit - I meant Aesthetically. Sorry I can't spell, speak, or read.

John_RiticelloEA · Mar 16, 2014

let's just say that Sony's 2006 E3 showing was almost 100% CGI "target renders". There was a pretty big backlash, and it seems that Sony is being VERY careful this time around to avoid it.

JABEE · Mar 16, 2014

ghst said:
so did the games come out in 4k in the end?

considering how much everyone hated the xbone scaler's crushed blacks, you all sure love that infamous screenshot.

Don't you love the InFamous screenshots or are you above it all?

coolasj19 · Mar 16, 2014

sn00zer said:
They got Forza'd like Watch_Dogs got GTA'd....I really think they went back to target 60fps

Why in the world would you want half the fidelity of this?
*Post a ton of Driveclub GIFs you've seen tens of times*

BruiserBear said:
I definitely commend Sony for going this route. They caused themselves a lot of headaches with all their PS3 fakery early on.
This screenshot really makes me want to buy Second Son.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd....31/1655456_10203498791089558_1214241031_o.jpg

Ummmm...
Is that a Facebook Share? Like, with all the compression and everything? Friday can't come soon enough.

Yes. I like the thing Sony is doing. We'll never see unattainable bullshots ever again *Let Me Dream*

disastermouse · Mar 16, 2014

killu4what said:
To me it atheistically looks better. Of course there are things happening in the trailer that might be impossible to accomplish on PS3. Not counting polygons or anything like that. Just looking at it. Killzone was on par with the trailer graphically. Gameplay is a different story. I guess effects fire and smoke were better in the trailer as well. But its certainly not laughable to think the final game looked better. In my opinion of course.

Atheistically?

makingmusic476 · Mar 16, 2014

I think the Killzone 2 trailer only looked better than the actual game in certain ways. Which parts you look at seem to influence how you think the game matched up.

Areas in which I think the trailer is superior:

Animations
Smoke effects
Texture resolution

Areas in which I think the game was superior:

Geometry
General aesthetics
Lighting?

zackmorris · Mar 16, 2014

Chamber said:
You should have faith in Ready at Dawn.

I want to, I respect the studio based off their work on the GoW psp games. But this is a whole new ball game, their first original IP, first console game they are developing. I think it will be good I think it will look stunning, but I also don't think it will come out this year. Hope I'm wrong on that last point though.

Ravek · Mar 16, 2014

zackmorris said:
I want to, I respect the studio based off their work on the GoW psp games. But this is a whole new ball game, their first original IP, first console game they are developing. I think it will be good I think it will look stunning, but I also don't think it will come out this year. Hope I'm wrong on that last point though.

The original Zack Morris was wrong a lot...

Pestilence11 · Mar 16, 2014

I have to say it's really nice to see previews for games in development and know I'm going to get basically the same thing when the game launches.

Watch_Dogs not withstanding. I still have my $40 pre-order for it though.

Khalifa Jayy · Mar 16, 2014

makingmusic476 said:
I think the Killzone 2 trailer only looked better than the actual game in certain ways. Which parts you look at seem to influence how you think the game matched up.

Areas in which I think the trailer is superior:

Animations

Smoke effects

Texture resolution

Areas in which I think the game was superior:

Geometry

General aesthetics

Lighting?

Agreed. The final product, in my eyes, looked much more aesthetically pleasing even though there were obvious cutbacks on a purely technical level.

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