Support NeoGAF

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

Welcome to the Dark Souls II Lore Thread. This thread is made specifically for the community to discuss about the lore of the game.
Have an opinion or speculation about the plot of the game? Fell free to share.
Be advised, there will be major spoilers in this thread.

Here is some of the info i have gathered so far, please note that none of this is 100% confirmed.

When does Dark Souls II takes place?

Dark Souls II takes place several ages after the first game. Most of the deities like Gwyn or Nito are long forgotten, to the point even their names aren't known anymore.

Drangleic is actually Lordran?

Yes and no. It's said that several kingdoms rose and fell before in the spot of land that is now Drangleic and its heavily implied one of them was Lordran. The fact Ornstein, the souls of Nito, Seath, Gwyn and the Witch of Izalith and the Sun Altar are in the game further supports this theory.
Pictures showing similarities between Lordran and Drangleic

Who is the Emerald Herald?

The Emerald Herald is named Shanalotte, she's was born of Dragons and contrived by men, although it didn't went as they expected. She states she is the one who brought the player to Drangleic.

Who is King Vendrick?

Vendrick is the ruler of Drangleic. It is said that one day a woman called Nashandra came from a foreign land and convinced King Vendrick to cross the sea and pilfer a mighty prize from the Land of Giants(it is never specified what the prize is). This is what caused the war between Drangleic and the Giants. At some time, during or after the war, Vendrick discovers Nashandra's true intentions and locks himself in the Undead Crypt, eventually becoming a Hollow.

Who is Nashandra? Why she is the final boss?

Nashandra is the Queen of Drangleic. She was born of the Dark with an insatiable lust of strength, she is a fragment of Manus, Father of the Abyss. Long ago, after his defeat by the Chosen Undead in Oolacile, he split into miniscule fragments. As the fragments recollected, they assumed a new form - Nashandra.
Nashandra eventually came to Drangleic and convinced the King to marry her and pilfer a prize from the Land of Giants. Eventually Vendrick discovers Nashandra's true intentions and leave her. Nashandra's goal is to bring Dark to the land, just like her former self tried a long time ago.

Descriptions of all enemies from the Official Game Guide

This OP will be updated as more info comes from the community.

jackmurray · Mar 16, 2014

Actually, the Lingering Dragoncrest Ring indicates that Drangleic is built on the same ground as Vinheim.

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

jackmurray said:
Actually, the Lingering Dragoncrest Ring indicates that Drangleic is built on the same ground as Vinheim.

Can you post the description? i'm on NG+ and can't see it now

Scooby · Mar 16, 2014

Nice thread. Subscribed

jackmurray · Mar 16, 2014

Darth Zandatsu said:
Can you post the description? i'm on NG+ and can't see it now

I think it's "A ring used long, long ago in the land where Drangleic is now", and since it's a ring that directly related back to Vinheim...

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

jackmurray said:
I think it's "A ring used long, long ago in the land where Drangleic is now", and since it's a ring that directly related back to Vinheim...

Interesting, although IIRC its never stated where Vinheim actually is located, for all we know Vinheim could be a city within Lordran just like Oolacile.

Metalingus5150 · Mar 16, 2014

Someone speculated that the reason you can warp is because the lord vessel has been placed.

Baliis · Mar 16, 2014

jackmurray said:
I think it's "A ring used long, long ago in the land where Drangleic is now", and since it's a ring that directly related back to Vinheim...

It could be referring to being used during DS1 though?

sssstententen · Mar 16, 2014

I'd love to get some more insight on some of the NPC's like the Embedded, Darkdiver, etc.

If anyone is into the lore then I'd highly recommend the guide too. I've been paging through it post-beating the game and wow is this thing awesome. Tons of snippets on lore and background for the characters/areas/items.

Oh and I'd be happy to look up stuff in the guide for anyone curious who doesn't have it.

Edit: Also, for the "Is Dranglic actually Lordan" question, the stone trader girl definitely teases at the fact, as she goes "Oh yes this land used to go by a different name....." and then cuts off with something like "It matters not" or that she doesn't remember anymore. And I'm pretty sure another character has a very similar dialog too, basically alluding to the player that this land is what you think it is.

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

sersteven said:
I'd love to get some more insight on some of the NPC's like the Embedded, Darkdiver, etc.

If anyone is into the lore then I'd highly recommend the guide too. I've been paging through it post-beating the game and wow is this thing awesome. Tons of snippets on lore and background for the characters/areas/items.

Oh and I'd be happy to look up stuff in the guide for anyone curious who doesn't have it.

Feel free to post anything interesting

LordCanti · Mar 16, 2014

Lordran may be the land across the sea where "The Giants" (obviously Anor Londo's forces, or what's left after Anor Londo was abandoned anyway) reside. We just don't know.

The prize Nashandra stole gave her the ability to create golems, if I'm remembering correctly. I can't think of a similar item from DS.

I'm pretty sure that the player is the child of Vendrick and Nashandra, though the memory of being that child is lost to the player due to the curse (I'm not sure if Nashandra knows). I forget how we know this.

The Lost Sinner locked in the Bastille (or the bug controlling him anyway) is The Witch of Izalith from Dark Souls. Someone told me the guide confirms this, but it's all there (the bug that controls him being the same variety as the one from the Bed of Chaos, her soul dropping in NG+, her summoning her children in NG+, the dialogue about her being a fool that tried to relight the fire, etc).

There's a theory (not sure if confirmed) that the guy that looks like Ornstein is actually Ornstein and that the one in Anor Londo was a fake made by Gwyndolin. Maybe he crossed the sea to steal back what Nashandra stole?

Couple questions:

1. What was the vortex the player jumps in at the beginning of the game. Some sort of portal? Where was the player before they jumped in the portal?

2. What is the deal with the guy in the wheelchair that pops up every now and again? I couldn't get him to speak with me and now he's gone.

3. Is there any significance to the singer that was locked in a cage opened by a keyblade? That was anticlimactic as hell.

4. How does the cat know so much/who is she?

convo · Mar 16, 2014

The extra souls you get from beating the big four bosses in ng+, are direct references to nito,gwyn, seethe and the witch of izalith.
You get the real moonlight greatsword from the "Old Paledrake Soul" and the chaos blade from "old witch soul".
The cat talks about the old ones, which have "grown quit a bit of moss on them"by now. What i believe is that the remnants of the first four lord souls of the first game reincarnated into new similar forms in a new age,or were used by new lords and repeated their previous mistakes. It's a curse where they experience failure and demise over and over again. It's a curse some realised existed and created the emerald herald to counter-act that.It's a kind of "break the circle" kind of deal.
There still seems to be some undiscovered secrets to uncover but it will be interesting to see what is up with the giants and the ancient dragon.

sssstententen · Mar 16, 2014

LordCanti said:
Lordran may be the land across the sea where "The Giants" (obviously Anor Londo's forces, or what's left after Anor Londo was abandoned anyway) reside. We just don't know.

The prize Nashandra stole gave her the ability to create golems, if I'm remembering correctly. I can't think of a similar item from DS.

I'm pretty sure that the player is the child of Vendrick and Nashandra, though the memory of being that child is lost to the player due to the curse (I'm not sure if Nashandra knows). I forget how we know this.

The Lost Sinner locked in the Bastille (or the bug controlling him anyway) is The Witch of Izalith from Dark Souls. Someone told me the guide confirms this, but it's all there (the bug that controls him being the same variety as the one from the Bed of Chaos, her soul dropping in NG+, her summoning her children in NG+, the dialogue about her being a fool that tried to relight the fire, etc).

There's a theory (not sure if confirmed) that the guy that looks like Ornstein is actually Ornstein and that the one in Anor Londo was a fake made by Gwyndolin. Maybe he crossed the sea to steal back what Nashandra stole?

Couple questions:

1. What was the vortex the player jumps in at the beginning of the game. Some sort of portal? Where was the player before they jumped in the portal?

2. What is the deal with the guy in the wheelchair that pops up every now and again? I couldn't get him to speak with me and now he's gone.

3. Is there any significance to the singer that was locked in a cage opened by a keyblade? That was anticlimactic as hell.

I don't believe the theory about Ornstein. More like the opposite in my opinion. Why this one is just "Dragonslayer", and clearly corrupted, and only gives a "Dragonslayer" Soul, where as I believe Ornstein would give a soul bearing his own name.

1.) I have no clue. Maybe a visual representation of the "undead curse"?
2.) Darkdiver. He's the abyss covenant leader/recruiter. You have to speak to him all three time's he appears, then he'll let you join his covenant, where you can literally go to the Abyss and fight an extra boss. I want to know more about his origins as well.
3.) That's the Embedded guy I mentioned.
Guide says:
"Once a human, but his worldly desires began spiraling out of control and ultimately corrupted him. Realizing that he lacked the strength to resist the temptation of the flesh, The Embedded chained himself for an eternity in the tower of Dragleic Castle to ensure he could never act upon his sinful urges. Though he covets the pure and innocent Milfanito held prisoner by his own chains, he can never touch her and is able to only wait in anguish for the bearer of his key to arrive and deliver him from his torment."

He's invincible too, which makes me wonder how he got that strong/if he's really more significant than the guide/game lets on.

The girl is a Milfanito (a race of immortal maidens created by the "Great Dead One". They serve the dead and the dark and are basically priestesses/nuns.

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

LordCanti said:
Couple questions:

2. What is the deal with the guy in the wheelchair that pops up every now and again? I couldn't get him to speak with me and now he's gone.

3. Is there any significance to the singer that was locked in a cage opened by a keyblade? That was anticlimactic as hell.

4. How does the cat know so much/who is she?

2. I assume you are referring to Darkdiver Grandahl, he's the NPC who lets you join the Pilgrims of Dark covenant

3. The singers are Milfanitos, created by The Great Dead One (aka Nito), they know nothing of the outside world and the only thing they do is sing to the Undead.

4. The cat is referred by the Emerald Herald as an Ancient Being, i assume she's somehow related to Alvina since she know much of the past, like WoI and the first flame.

LordCanti · Mar 16, 2014

sersteven said:
The girl is a Milfanito (a race of immortal maidens created by the "Great Dead One". They serve the dead and the dark and are basically priestesses/nuns.

Darth Zandatsu said:
2. I assume you are referring to Darkdiver Grandahl, he's the NPC who lets you join the Pilgrims of Dark covenant

3. The singers are Milfanitos, created by The Great Dead One (aka Nito), they know nothing of the outside world and the only thing they do is sing to the Undead.

4. The cat is referred by the Emerald Herald as an Ancient Being, i assume she's someone related to Alvina since she know much of the past, like WoI and the first flame.

I was wondering if that specific Milfanito held any significance or if she was just the unlucky (lucky? She didn't have to hear the horrible singing) one that happened to get picked. I guess it's a good thing that he didn't just go on a never ending rape spree, since he can't be killed by normal means.

That was the NPC I'm referring to. I saw him multiple times, but I guess I missed one/didn't get the chance to join his covenant.

I like to think that the cat is related to Alvina in some way for sure.

sssstententen · Mar 16, 2014

LordCanti said:
I was wondering if that specific Milfanito held any significance or if she was just the unlucky (lucky? She didn't have to hear the horrible singing) one that happened to get picked.

That was the NPC I'm referring to. I saw him multiple times, but I guess I missed one/didn't get the chance to join his covenant.

I like to think that the cat is related to Alvina in some way for sure.

Pretty sure she's just supposed to represent the ultimate prize for the Embedded. A pure maiden. She doesn't even have her own name, like the rest of the Milfanito. I do wonder about the injured one outside the Demon of Song's room.

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

sersteven said:
I do wonder about the injured one outside the Demon of Song's room.

I remember her being in a hollowed state unlike the rest of the Milfanitos

isual · Mar 16, 2014

I strongly believe that it is indeed lordran or rather a place close to that, but thousands of years later.

Just bought the official guide off amazon. Never really buy guides, but I support FROM and bought it.

Will read it through when i get it on Tuesday

TeddyShardik · Mar 16, 2014

Darth Zandatsu said:
Interesting, although IIRC its never stated where Vinheim actually is located, for all we know Vinheim could be a city within Lordran just like Oolacile.

Vinheim sounds reasonable to me. In the Lost Bastille the NPC you can use a fragrant branch of yore on says, like some others, that he doesn't know the land under the name Drangleic but something else.
At first I thought Thorolund because he was going on about how the undead were rounded up and locked away there but since he is a sorcerer so I think Vinheim might be more likely.

Completely unrelated to that: Shalquoir in Majula talks about the bosses of the different areas at some point and she mentions the Lost Sinner as being locked up because he tried to rekindle the first flame. So, is he another undead who tried to fuel the flame after the player character in DS1 did so? Or did his attempt to kindle the first flame get him locked up by a certain Dark Lord?

Kusagari · Mar 16, 2014

TeddyShardik said:
Vinheim sounds reasonable to me. In the Lost Bastille the NPC you can use a fragrant branch of yore on says, like some others, that he doesn't know the land under the name Drangleic but something else.
At first I thought Thorolund because he was going on about how the undead were rounded up and locked away there but since he is a sorcerer so I think Vinheim might be more likely.

Completely unrelated to that: Shalquoir in Majula talks about the bosses of the different areas at some point and she mentions the Lost Sinner as being locked up because he tried to rekindle the first flame. So, is he another undead who tried to fuel the flame after the player character in DS1 did so? Or did his attempt to kindle the first flame get him locked up by a certain Dark Lord?

Lost Sinner is probably a reincarnation of the Witch of Izalith. Everything suggests it, including her soul being dropped in NG+.

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

TeddyShardik said:
Completely unrelated to that: Shalquoir in Majula talks about the bosses of the different areas at some point and she mentions the Lost Sinner as being locked up because he tried to rekindle the first flame. So, is he another undead who tried to fuel the flame after the player character in DS1 did so? Or did his attempt to kindle the first flame get him locked up by a certain Dark Lord?

Lost Sinner is a woman dude

. I can think of two theories

1) She is a random undead that at some point found the WoI Soul and tried to use it to link the flame

2) She's the last remaining Daughter of Chaos (WoI had 7 children) and used her mother's soul to link the flame.

LordCanti · Mar 16, 2014

Someone with the guide will have to tell us for sure. Someone told me it specifically says that the bug is The Witch of Izalith herself in the guide, but I can't confirm that since I don't have it.

They may have meant that The Witch's soul drops. Either way, it's either her or someone related to her very closely in some way.

TeddyShardik · Mar 16, 2014

Hmm...Considering what the chancellor says about Vendrick using the Souls of the 4 "old ones" (didn't realise those were the 4 lords of DS 1 until this thread btw

) to build his kingdom, isn't it a possibility that the prize he wanted to conquer was the Lord vessel that was filled with these Souls? How else would they be there if Drangleic is not Lordran?

The Xtortionist · Mar 16, 2014

The ending makes no sense to me. How is taking the throne going to link the fire? Why does Nashandra want to kill the player? Nothing in the ending suggests that the fire is actually linked. And why would Nashandra lead the player along only to turn on them? Why isn't there a choice to reject the throne when the ending narration suggests it to be possible? Ugh

Also, a voice actor for young Shanalotte is listed in the credits. Does she ever appear as a child? I must have missed it.

todd360 · Mar 16, 2014

I'm not very far in the game yet but I'm loving this were actually in lordran thousands of years later theory.

floatingcoffins · Mar 16, 2014

I have the guide - there's actually a section for lore (which is just a list of entries that has story related stuff). I can type up some of the stuff in there.

pantsmith · Mar 16, 2014

todd360 said:
I'm not very far in the game yet but I'm loving this were actually in lordran thousands of years later theory.

Yeah, I havent finished it either (I cant play at the moment ;_

but I noticed the Chaos Bug on Last/Lost Sinner, the namedrop in "The Dukes" Dear Freja, and the way the big pile of corpses with a sword at the bottom of The Gutter... Is a big pile of corpses with a sword.

These (probably) arent the same characters but they are the same archetypes, and I think thats fascinating... the nature of story in a universe, and how mythology lends to itself over time as stories are passed around by a bonfire.

Really cool stuff. Ill dive into the guide once I finally finish the game on my own.

takoyaki · Mar 16, 2014

Metalingus5150 said:
Someone speculated that the reason you can warp is because the lord vessel has been placed.

mind blown. great thread, getting into the lore is what drives me to finish the game asap. Until I played the game, I thought From said that DS2 was a prequel to DS1, it's great to be surprised like that.

Caffeine · Mar 16, 2014

LordCanti said:
There's a theory (not sure if confirmed) that the guy that looks like Ornstein is actually Ornstein and that the one in Anor Londo was a fake made by Gwyndolin. Maybe he crossed the sea to steal back what Nashandra stole?

idk I feel like ornstein and smough were tricked by the illusion standing their post. the old dragonslayer clearly is corrupted though so it could be the same one just reanimating a dead body. especially if this place is built on lordran.

Punished_Snake · Mar 16, 2014

The Xtortionist said:
The ending makes no sense to me. How is taking the throne going to link the fire? Why does Nashandra want to kill the player? Nothing in the ending suggests that the fire is actually linked. And why would Nashandra lead the player along only to turn on them? Why isn't there a choice to reject the throne when the ending narration suggests it to be possible? Ugh

Also, a voice actor for young Shanalotte is listed in the credits. Does she ever appear as a child? I must have missed it.

I was about to ask the same questions, during the ending the narrator suggests that you have a choice, but you actually don't. Does the game has a different/another ending?

SargerusBR · Mar 16, 2014

floatingcoffins said:
I have the guide - there's actually a section for lore (which is just a list of entries that has story related stuff). I can type up some of the stuff in there.

Ken · Mar 16, 2014

so that ending huh.

if nashandra didn't want anyone to light the fire why not kill the golems? you had foreverrrrrr

but then you could probably pay laddersmith 50k to make a ladder that crosses over anyways

Soulflarz · Mar 17, 2014

^where does the game say we are nashandras kid?

SargerusBR · Mar 17, 2014

Soulflarz said:
^where does the game say we are nashandras kid?

AFAIK, it doesn't, people are assuming it because of the opening cinematic

Visceir · Mar 17, 2014

The ending narrator starts off with "You, who link the fire, you who bear the curse..."

Makes me think at that point you've already made the choise and get that ending. Maybe it's something you can do during the game that alters the choise you're making to get a different ending.

Dark Souls ending choise was made by lighting the bonfire -- maybe in Dark Souls 2 you shouldn't light a single bonfire to get a different ending. I know there is an item reward for no bonfire run, would be cool if you'd get an alternative ending too.

I've sort of accepted that we only get this one hella dumb ending, but still hoping there is more to it.

Also kinda curious who the pursuer is, as he shows up in multiple places to fight you (first encounter, boss battle, after the smelter boss in Iron Keep)

Sinfamy · Mar 17, 2014

Is Heidi's Tower of Flame the remnant Anor Londo?

vas_a_morir · Mar 17, 2014

Sinfamy said:
Is Heidi's Tower of Flame the remnant Anor Londo?

Interesting, but I personally do not see the connection. Anor Londo was way up on top of a mountain and looked totally different. I don't think this is Lordran, as things seem pretty different. Lodran was maybe more mountainous? Lodran felt like the Alps, while DS2 felt more like Scotland or something.

I felt the armor and architecture felt a little younger, too. But, now that I think about it, DS1 had armor sets the span several centuries in style. Solaire's armor seemed like it was from around the 13th century, while the Elite Knight Armor seemed possibly 15th or 16th century. I'd love to see where they got the models for the armor.

SargerusBR · Mar 17, 2014

vas_a_morir said:
Interesting, but I personally do not see the connection. Anor Londo was way up on top of a mountain and looked totally different. I don't think this is Lordran, as things seem pretty different. Lodran was maybe more mountainous? Lodran felt like the Alps, while DS2 felt more like Scotland or something.

Assuming thousands of years have passed since the events of DaS, it not that difficult to see Drangleic as Lordran. The geographical differences could be explained with erosion.

Zukuu · Mar 17, 2014

The game is a thousand times more obtrusive than DeS and DaS in terms of story and purpose of the pc.

TeddyShardik · Mar 17, 2014

Sinfamy said:
Is Heidi's Tower of Flame the remnant Anor Londo?

I really don't think so. In my opinion the architecture of the Chapel and the boss are just there as a nice throwback for people familiar with the previous game.
But then again I always get confused and unsure on what actually means something Lore wise and what is just there because videogames. >.<

ElFly · Mar 18, 2014

Can you engage the hollow giant king in undead crypt?

e: just made enough damage and he wtfpwned me

SargerusBR · Mar 18, 2014

ElFly said:
Can you engage the hollow giant king in undead crypt?

Yes, but he has a HUGE amount of health and his attacks while slow and easily avoidable, can take all your health in one hit.

ElFly · Mar 18, 2014

So who is the Invader Royal ??? Nalvaana?

ixix · Mar 18, 2014

Benhart's the best. Dude's got a cheap knockoff Moonlight Sword that he thinks is the real deal, and the descriptions for his armor mention that his shield has clearly been around for generations but has no special value and that he never took his armor off so it now has an odor.

He's a stinky knight with a fake sword and a ratty old shield that's still willing to help you with the final boss.

Dude's got heart. Love ya, Benhart.

tesqui · Mar 18, 2014

Darth Zandatsu said:
Yes, but he has a HUGE amount of health and his attacks while slow and easily avoidable, can take all your health in one hit.

What does he drop?

SargerusBR · Mar 18, 2014

tesqui said:
What does he drop?

Nothing, but after killing him you can get his soul and armor set in the Shrine of Amana

JerkShep · Mar 18, 2014

The game kind of lost me plotwise after the undead crypt. I get the Nashandra and Manus thing but the part with the Ancient Dragon, its apparent connection with the giants, the final revelation with the herald, the role of the Throne..I find it hard to piece together. It may be only a floating feeling, but my impression is that there are lots of elements closer to DeS this time around. The major role of giants, the advancement of soul studies, a "maiden in black" of sorts. Even the final image of the Throne kind of reminded me more of the Old One than the kiln of the first flame. I'd really need more elements to form a coherent theory, I hope the game has more info to be found, everything seems pretty vague for now.

SnakeLinkSonic · Mar 18, 2014

Who is this?

SargerusBR · Mar 18, 2014

SnakeLinkSonic said:
Who is this?

Nashandra, if had to guess. Looks exactly like her human form sitting in the throne room.

Icomp · Mar 18, 2014

Where are people getting the idea that Ornstein is a copy of the Dragonslayer in this game? (Or vice versa)

Support NeoGAF

The Dark Souls II Lore Thread of speculations, spoilers and headaches

I love Pokken!

Neo Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Neo Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Member

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Member

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Banned

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Banned

I love Pokken!

Member

Member

Banned

I love Pokken!

Banned

Banned

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Member

I love Pokken!

Member

Similar threads