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Nibel · Jul 21, 2014

かぎをかける if old

Last week, the creators of an unofficial English translation for the role-playing game Final Fantasy Type-0 announced that they were taking down the patch and all blog posts associated with it.

"Unfortunately I'm forced to remove my posts and pages related to the popular Final Fantasy Type-0 fan translation project," wrote the project lead, who goes by the handle SkyBladeCloud. "That's right, [publisher Square Enix] thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans."

For many gamers and media outlets across the web, the narrative became simple: big bad corporation comes out of nowhere to step on hardworking fans. But the story of Final Fantasy Type-0's fan translationwhich I've been following for months nowis far more nuanced, full of drama both external and internal. Square Enix has been engaged in conversations with the fan translation team for quite some time now, according to team members. And not everyone on the team is happy with how the patch was releasedor how this story seems to be ending.

Great write-up by Jubileus 'The Creator' Schreier. Read the full article here.

A lot of weird coincedences and just a lot of drama overall. Especially the part that the patch has been released without noticing the rest of the team is kind of baffling, despite the leader telling them he targets August.

teiresias · Jul 21, 2014

At the end of the day, if a studio is going to wait years upon years to even acknowledge a localization of a game then they only have themselves to blame when people take it upon themselves and I have no sympathy for them regardless of what drama the fan-based translation team goes through.

While SE was shoving Lighting-crap down our throats they could have been localizing some other things. Cry me a damn river SE and learn how to actually make a game on a realistic development schedule.

LiK · Jul 21, 2014

It was a good read, Jaysun.

Squishy3 · Jul 21, 2014

Still should be released on the platform the people petitioned for it to be released on. But Squeenix gonna Squeenix.

DNAbro · Jul 21, 2014

Well that's an interesting read.

ElMexiMerican · Jul 21, 2014

Considering Square Enix's stances on previous fan projects, this doesn't surprise me in the least.

Timeaisis · Jul 21, 2014

I'll just quote myself from the other thread:

Timeaisis said:
Just read this. Great write up. Here I was ready to be ready to hate on SE some more, but in reality, this paints a pretty different picture.

Seems like this Sky fellow went around his entire team to release this thing early as a big "up yours" to SE. It sounded like they might have settled on some mutually beneficial agreement had he not done that. But, seeing as how Type 0 was to been announced for the west, SE didn't really have much other course of action at that point, since the patch was already out in the wild. If he had just waited a little longer this whole thing might have ended a lot better for both parties.

I'm not in love with SE, but I don't blame them for the C&D given the circumstances surrounding this whole debacle. I feel for the team who clearly were willing to negotiate with SE and find some solution. Instead, Sky just up and released it.

darkside31337 · Jul 21, 2014

Honestly if they weren't even going to bother with a handheld version then why even go after them? If the HD version is that much of an improvement over the original game then it shouldn't even be worth the hassle and bad publicity.

But I don't feel bad for the folks involved with the translation either.

Trigonometrize. · Jul 21, 2014

I'm so conflicted on whether or not he's onto something with Square's announcement just being a reaction to the release of the fan translation. On one hand, you don't just make business decisions on a whim like that. On the other, the timing does seem exceptionally convenient.

Eh, he probably knew.

ShockingAlberto · Jul 21, 2014

teiresias said:
At the end of the day, if a studio is going to wait years upon years to even acknowledge a localization of a game then they only have themselves to blame when people take it upon themselves and I have no sympathy for them regardless of what drama the fan-based translation team goes through.

While SE was shoving Lighting-crap down our throats they could have been localizing some other things. Cry me a damn river SE and learn how to actually make a game on a realistic development schedule.

It's not like they could release it on the PSP in America and, honestly, the Vita's in a different though equally bad situation.

This seems like the best solution to a bad problem.

Bomber Bob · Jul 21, 2014

Why people always fail to understand how a legal department works?

t26 · Jul 21, 2014

Timeaisis said:
I'll just quote myself from the other thread:

I'm not in love with SE, but I don't blame them for the C&D given the circumstances surrounding this whole debacle. I feel for the team who clearly were willing to negotiate with SE and find some solution. Instead, Sky just up and released it.

What would be the mutual solution? There is no way square will allow a patch to release at all

ActStriker · Jul 21, 2014

Doesn't the patch include actual Type-0 code or something of that nature? That would be pretty clear grounds for a C&D

teiresias · Jul 21, 2014

ShockingAlberto said:
It's not like they could release it on the PSP in America and, honestly, the Vita's in a different though equally bad situation.

This seems like the best solution to a bad problem.

I said nothing about the platform it was being released on. That's a moot point to me. The fact is up until this patch was about to be released SE just ignored this game for western release completely. Didn't speak of it, didn't make any mention of it, nothing regardless of platform.

After their inability to produce any new FFXV news at E3 this year it's clear this company is incompetent at game development, so I have no sympathy for them.

Stuart444 · Jul 21, 2014

This certainly paints things in a different light. I wondered what SE was talking to Sky about.

Regardless, Sky completely disregarded the team when he went and released the patch so I kinda feel bad for the fan translation team (not including Sky)

Oh well, nice write up Jason. Good work as always.

Renpatsu · Jul 21, 2014

Good read and some numbers for those interested.

Soon that would all go out the window. In early June, Sky suddenly announced that they were releasing two months early, and that the patch would be available on Sunday, June 8the day before E3. The patch was immediately popular, Sky saidhe estimates that it got 100,000 downloads in four daysand fans were ecstatic to finally get to play Type-0 in English.

ActStriker said:
Doesn't the patch include actual Type-0 code or something of that nature? That would be pretty clear grounds for a C&D

The patch contains data from both disc 1 and 2 in order to merge the files into a single ISO, but yes, that inherently contains code from the game.

ShockingAlberto · Jul 21, 2014

Trigonometrize. said:
I'm so conflicted on whether or not he's onto something with Square's announcement just being a reaction to the release of the fan translation. On one hand, you don't just make business decisions on a whim like that. On the other, the timing does seem exceptionally convenient.

Eh, he probably knew.

I mean

it was convenient

It was during E3. Sometimes, games get announced in that week! Conveniently!

Alucrid · Jul 21, 2014

teiresias said:
I said nothing about the platform it was being released on. That's a moot point to me. The fact is up until this patch was about to be released SE just ignored this game for western release completely. Didn't speak of it, didn't make any mention of it, nothing regardless of platform.

After their inability to produce any new FFXV news at E3 this year it's clear this company is incompetent at game development, so I have no sympathy for them.

So having a near complete localization including VO means they "ignored this game for western release completely" huh?

Aeana · Jul 21, 2014

ActStriker said:
Doesn't the patch include actual Type-0 code or something of that nature? That would be pretty clear grounds for a C&D

And that's most likely the reason why they contacted him to remove the patch. It's much shakier ground pursuing legal action on a translation that's being distributed only via delta information in a patch file (i.e., only the new work, none of the original content included), which is why such a thing doesn't tend to occur against fan translations in general.

Sir_Crocodile · Jul 21, 2014

I bought the PSP version of the game last year in anticipation of the patch, so I'm thankful to sky myself. I'd have much preferred he went the "hard way" and released it in a more legal way and shifted the heavy work to the users though

Good chap too, he always tries to help others with psp hacks if they get stuck

DigitalDevilSummoner · Jul 21, 2014

Interesting read but I still think Square's "announcement" was a knee jerk reaction. They showed absolutely nothing, they just made a promise.

chaosblade · Jul 21, 2014

Aeana said:
And that's most likely the reason why they contacted him to remove the patch. It's much shakier ground pursuing legal action on a translation that's being distributed only via delta information in a patch file (i.e., only the new work, none of the original content included), which is why such a thing doesn't tend to occur against fan translations in general.

I was questioning in the other thread what a "mutually solution " might be in that situation, but maybe this is it. Wonder if they would have let it slide otherwise.

Maybe also with the stipulation that SE gets to announce their English version of the game before the release of the PSP translation.

Timeaisis · Jul 21, 2014

t26 said:
What would be the mutual solution? There is no way square will allow a patch to release at all

Not sure but, from the article:

Square Enix representatives reached out to the fan translation team, warning them that the company intended to protect its copyrights, and asking the team if they'd like to talk further about mutual solutions that would leave both parties happy.

That flew out the window the minute Sky released the patch 3 months early.

Jucksalbe · Jul 21, 2014

Seems there's not much ground to properly judge either side's reaction without knowing the details of what those talks between SquareEnix and the translation team were about.
It's a shame the translation had to be removed, now let's hope SE actually delivers a proper version of the game.

Desi · Jul 21, 2014

Just don't come after my Front Mission 5, you bastards!

Vamphuntr · Jul 21, 2014

DigitalDevilSummoner said:
Interesting read but I still think Square's "announcement" was a knee jerk reaction. They showed absolutely nothing, they just made a promise.

I don't think it was a knee jerk reaction at all. They want in on the PS4/Xbox One money right now while there is a drought of games and their Japanese side has nothing to offer in the near future (FFXV and KH3 are far away). They already have a localization with voices recorded and by releasing in on PS4/Xbox One they can finally sell it to the west.

You make it seems like SE never announces stuff by showing only a logo or a picture

Aeana · Jul 21, 2014

Vamphuntr said:
I don't think it was a knee jerk reaction at all. They want in on the PS4/Xbox One money right now while there is a drought of games and their Japanese side has nothing to offer in the near future (FFXV and KH3 are far away). They already have a localization with voices recorded and by releasing in on PS4/Xbox One they can finally sell it to the west.

You make it seems like SE never announces stuff by showing only a logo or a picture

I think that the timing of this particular announcement was probably in response to the patch release. It is certainly uncharacteristic of SE to announce something for the first time via a PS Blog post for NA and EU only without any information. Not to mention that the announcement was so hurried that they didn't even have their facts straight.

Kagari · Jul 21, 2014

Aeana said:
I think that the timing of this particular announcement was probably in response to the patch release. It is certainly uncharacteristic of SE to announce something for the first time via a PS Blog post for NA and EU only without any information. Not to mention that the announcement was so hurried that they didn't even have their facts straight.

They did have a press release, but no screen shots or video just screams 'rushed'.

DigitalDevilSummoner · Jul 21, 2014

Vamphuntr said:
You make it seems like SE never announces stuff by showing only a logo or a picture

Actually yeah, when it comes to bigger projects, they don't. If they were ready to sell Type-0 on the new gen, their first game on the new gen no less, they would have done so with bells and whistles.

This kind of coverage however is only working in favour of the english patch, if anything it lets people know there is a patch.

Pie and Beans · Jul 21, 2014

I'm not sure what the dissenting members of the team wanted to happen. All their work never see release as the game got "officially licensed" and the shoe dropped sooner rather than later? Or perhaps there was hope for legitimising the translation and peeps perhaps getting paid? Dunno, seems like some weird e-drama that always emerges from translation groups like these.

Kagari said:
They did have a press release, but no screen shots or video just screams 'rushed'.

Wasn't there a screenshot that had some slightly higher resolution puddles n stuff or was that fake/emulation lifted?

Unknown Soldier · Jul 21, 2014

Fan translations have always worked in a legal gray area, if the owner of the IP determines they want to sell the content in a previously unreleased region then the fan translators are SOL. That's how it has always worked and I don't know what there is to get all mad about. You took a risk when you chose to invest your time into translating something owned by someone else, sometimes it pays off when the IP owner ignores you because they weren't even going to sell it in the translated language. And sometimes, well, this happens.

mgs2master2 · Jul 21, 2014

was gonna post this in the other thread, but its locked so...

http://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/comments/2b1ew0/final_fantasy_type0_translation_patch_no_longer/cj0ua8t

apparently sky received something worse than a C/D letter

Nibel · Jul 21, 2014

I assumed this screenshot was from the new version?

jwhit28 · Jul 21, 2014

Unknown Soldier said:
Fan translations have always worked in a legal gray area, if the owner of the IP determines they want to sell the content in a previously unreleased region then the fan translators are SOL. That's how it has always worked and I don't know what there is to get all mad about. You took a risk when you chose to invest your time into translating something owned by someone else, sometimes it pays off when the IP owner ignores you because they weren't even going to sell it in the translated language. And sometimes, well, this happens.

What's so gray about the translation? Isn't the only crime here the distribution method?

Coxy · Jul 21, 2014

Desi said:
Just don't come after my Front Mission 5, you bastards!

Hey, if they want to remake it for ps4 and officially translate it, that'd be just dandy

Squire · Jul 21, 2014

Trigonometrize. said:
I'm so conflicted on whether or not he's onto something with Square's announcement just being a reaction to the release of the fan translation. On one hand, you don't just make business decisions on a whim like that. On the other, the timing does seem exceptionally convenient.

Eh, he probably knew.

He knew. Don't allow yourself for even a second to entertain the idea SE out of the blue decided to localize the game as a reaction to a couple of fans when they were already struggling with how to handle the situation for years.

They gave Sky a heads up. He reacted and he knows it.

LiquidMetal14 · Jul 21, 2014

First and foremost, great work. Wish it was longer but the nature of these things makes any information valuable. I think the team shouldn't be so bitter about this considering most fans are happy and that's what the team set out to do in the big picture of it all. I think it was the right decision to make. I'm pretty sure there people who went out and bought legit copies of the game and ripped it for their own use on the PSP or via emulation on PC. It helped in sales in a way for SE.

DiipuSurotu said:
Just noticed Sky has a Paypal donate button on his website. That's not cool, also.

So does Durante and we know he's the main reason we bought Dark Souls on PC such as some who went out and bought legit copies of FFT0 in order to rip them and play them on their PSP's or emulators on PC. It can go both ways but I really don't know all of Sky or Durante's doings. I'm merely pointing that out for some context. Again, I'm not attacking or accusing but merely comparing so no offense to Durante or Sky.

Aeana · Jul 21, 2014

Unknown Soldier said:
Fan translations have always worked in a legal gray area, if the owner of the IP determines they want to sell the content in a previously unreleased region then the fan translators are SOL. That's how it has always worked and I don't know what there is to get all mad about. You took a risk when you chose to invest your time into translating something owned by someone else, sometimes it pays off when the IP owner ignores you because they weren't even going to sell it in the translated language. And sometimes, well, this happens.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Fan translations don't receive C&Ds. That's not a common occurrence (or even one that's actually happened outside of zero-day Pokemon translation patches), when you're phrasing it like it is.
Regardless, it's pretty clear that they got him to remove the patch due to the distribution of copyrighted material, not because it's a fan translation of something they intended to release.

Unknown Soldier · Jul 21, 2014

jwhit28 said:
What's so gray about the translation? Isn't the only crime here the distribution method?

In general, if the owner of the IP is going to sell a localized version themselves, they won't allow fans to distribute a translation for free. It's not technically legal to translate and release content that you don't own, after all.

Aeana said:
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Fan translations don't receive C&Ds. That's not a common occurrence (or even one that's actually happened outside of zero-day Pokemon translation patches), when you're phrasing it like it is.
Regardless, it's pretty clear that they got him to remove the patch due to the distribution of copyrighted material, not because it's a fan translation of something they intended to release.

Well it seems awfully coincidental that they started caring about the Type-0 fan translation only after they decided to localize and release it in the West. We're agreeing that fan translations generally don't receive C&Ds though, I wasn't saying that happens regularly at all. Fansubbed anime works roughly the same way.

androvsky · Jul 21, 2014

DigitalDevilSummoner said:
Actually yeah, when it comes to bigger projects, they don't. If they were ready to sell Type-0 on the new gen, their first game on the new gen no less, they would have done so with bells and whistles.

This kind of coverage however is only working in favour of the english patch, if anything it lets people know there is a patch.

I'll grant the FF-X HD project announcement had not only a logo but background music as well, but it's a very comparable announcement.

Squire · Jul 21, 2014

Aeana said:
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Fan translations don't receive C&Ds. That's not a common occurrence (or even one that's actually happened outside of zero-day Pokemon translation patches), when you're phrasing it like it is.
Regardless, it's pretty clear that they got him to remove the patch due to the distribution of copyrighted material, not because it's a fan translation of something they intended to release.

Reddit post linked above says they sent him something worse than a C/D, so that definitely fits with what you've been saying.

Nairume · Jul 21, 2014

ElMexiMerican said:
Considering Square Enix's stances on previous fan projects, this doesn't surprise me in the least.

Their stance to overlook them unless they overstep their bounds? Because there's countless more projects that they have left alone compared to the handful they've shut down.

Im_Special · Jul 21, 2014

LiquidMetal14 said:
So does Durante and we know he's the main reason we bought Dark Souls on PC such as some who went out and bought legit copies of FFT0 in order to rip them and play them on their PSP's or emulators on PC. It can go both ways but I really don't know all of Sky or Durante's doings. I'm merely pointing that out for some context. Again, I'm not attacking or accusing but merely comparing so no offense to Durante or Sky.

This isn't even the same thing, Durante made money yes, by injecting stuff into the games code and that was it, you still needed to buy the game from Steam, and blah blah. Namco probably saw this as beneficial to them and their game sales so they left it alone, if Namco was planning on re-releasing a new PC version with all the bells and whistles that Durante added I bet you they would have told him to stop.

This thing with SE, Sky made money and redistributed SE's work as his own, and this is also cutting into SE's future profits with their own HD version, which they will want to protect. Lots of people now will play it and say to themselves that once was enough and will save their $60 for something else.

Fake Edit: Even if some people bought legit copies of FFT-0, this was money to Ebay or retailer#234 or reseller#423, not to SE, so again this isn't the same as Durante's Dark Souls Mod = Benefit to Namco's pocket.

Squishy3 · Jul 21, 2014

Nibel said:
I assumed this screenshot was from the new version?

Even if it is that's from a CG cutscene.

Labadal · Jul 21, 2014

Now, that article does clear up some things. I'm still glad I got to play the fan translation, but I can understand why Square sent the C&D. The fact that they announced this so close to the release of the patch, was a reaction from their side, no doubt about it.

A messed up situation, all in all.

LiquidMetal14 · Jul 21, 2014

Im_Special said:
This isn't even the same thing, Durante made money yes, by injecting stuff into the games code and that was it, you still needed to buy the game from Steam, and blah blah. Namco probably saw this as beneficial to them and their game sales so they left it alone, if Namco was planning on re-releasing a new PC version with all the bells and whistles that Durante added I bet you they would have told him to stop.

This with SE, Sky made money and redistributed SE's work as his own, and this is also cutting into SE's future profit with their HD version, which they want to protect. Lots of people now will play it and say to them selves that once was enough and will save there 60$ for something else.

I merely want more information on this BUT he made money out of this like he sold the patch somewhere? Or do you mean the fact that he has a donation option akin to Durante's site?

And I fully comprehend that Durante injected and frankly fixed some thing which caused me to buy the game but I see little difference here. I want to now buy FFT0 because of this project as much as I did Dark Souls due to Durante's work. And they both have donation options. I see nothing wrong with either so I'm perfectly clear. I see a problem with some casting Sky aside but not the other people like Durante.

studyguy · Jul 21, 2014

If both sides were headed towards a mutual solution, then I don't know what to say if the translation team played their hand early. I mean at this point we know there was game code riding along with the translation so the company is in the driver's seat whether we like it or not, it's their IP to protect after all.

I don't buy the idea that SE decided to release Type-0 as a reaction, that seems too far fetched in terms of planning out the details that go along with a release. Did they drag their feet though? Absolutely, but that's besides the point if it was an intended release at all. As far as I know Front Mission 5: Scars of War was allowed through with little fuss from SE, but then again that never hit state side.

Paracelsus · Jul 21, 2014

People are free to believe what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. This is what I think: I don't believe he was unaware it was coming, he knew, else Square would have never been so adamant to approach them, have them sign an NDA and so on.

and asking the team if they'd like to talk further about mutual solutions that would leave both parties happy.

Don't release the patch and maybe you'll get a voucher or a copy of the game or we'll make one or two of you guys moderators in our forums. They already have a translation so there was no money deal involved, which means the fantranslators were in a lose-lose situation.

Then, he likely learned the -to say the least- awkward platform choice, he learned they were skipping the two platforms the vocal audience requesting the game wanted the most and went "You know what? Screw you". I don't blame him for doing that, only for risking legal ramifications for his project teammates.

Zomba13 · Jul 21, 2014

Im_Special said:
This isn't even the same thing, Durante made money yes, by injecting stuff into the games code and that was it, you still needed to buy the game from Steam, and blah blah. Namco probably saw this as beneficial to them and their game sales so they left it alone, if Namco was planning on re-releasing a new PC version with all the bells and whistles that Durante added I bet you they would have told him to stop.

This with SE, Sky made money and redistributed SE's work as his own, and this is also cutting into SE's future profit with their HD version, which they want to protect. Lots of people now will play it and say to them selves that once was enough and will save there 60$ for something else.

He's not charging for it or anything. It's a donation button. Plenty of websites have them. You don't have to donate to get the patch and if you want to throw a few bucks to someone who worked on the fan translation then why not? No one is forcing them to. And if SE really wanted to get money from the Type-0 game they had years to release it on last gen consoles or as a download only thing for Vita (or hell, crossbuy PS3/Vita and 360). They've had a translation done in house and VO work done on it (not sure if 100% or not) for years. They've had plenty of oppurtunity to release it in some fashion in the west to get profit out of it and not make fans resort to doing th ejob themselves.

Yeah, it's hella questionable including actual code in the patch (something that by all means SE should go after) but that stuff is useless unless you have the dumped iso of disk 1 or 2 to patch it on to.

Kagari · Jul 21, 2014

Nibel said:
I assumed this screenshot was from the new version?

This is CG.

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