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PS4's PDM has strange ways in which it fails and needs to improve

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Welcome to the PlayStation Dynamic Menu.
ITYiQ8W.jpg


Now as the PS4 is a very connected device that likes to inform you what goes on in the world of Playstation it communicates with the Playstation Network.

Grabbing your friends list, telling you what other add-ons you have available or could purchase. How many people like the game you play. Its aim is to enrich the experience by display information about the state of the community and games.
I am fully behind that aim and share that vision for my games console.

The issue is when this UI doesn't behave the way it's supposed to by various parameters that Sony apparently didn't account for or the production system differing a lot from the test system. (Scalability is hard, I'm not denying that.)

Just see the way the Friends List can break if you have a lot of friends that are online:
vmndzi.gif


Or the horizontal scrolling:
hxihqm.gif


Cancel the trophies and then you stay informed anyway.
tsbqgq.gif


Full disclosure: I have never had this happen to me in even a less severe form. But my use case is also 20 people on my friends list with like 5 online at the same time and way less games than Pete.

The problem might even be fixed temporarily by shutting the device off and on again or rebuilding the database.
Do note that I think these steps are not prohibitive, but they are absolute failings.
If this is a universal fix then the PS4 needs to do maintenance on itself. Build a use pattern over time or just do the maintenance at night.

In addition to that the numerous reports that the UI being so network aware (half the screen is done via WebGL with data pulled remotely) that when the PSN is being DDOS'd it will behave very strange where people can't even start their games because one part of the system detects that the Network is online, but because it's overloaded it doesn't respond.
Again, the fix is simple, but unintuitive: Disconnect from PSN or boot without a network connection (turned off router on wifi or removed ethernet cable) so it reverts to an offline mode.

Programmers on GAF that have done network related stuff knows how annoying I/O is when it comes to networking. I can sympathize but PDM needs to be better in that aspect.
It needs better failsafes. Maybe it need to more aggressively cache like a browser would with a high cache setting.

Gifs and images created based on the video by Pete Dodd.
 

curb

Banned
You'all just need less friends. I only ever see 10 tops out of my 25 friends online at any given time and everything loads fine for me.
Lonely people non-problems
 

LeFAIS

Member
I have had the same issues, with exception the trophy one. I also just have a maximum of 30 friends online at the same time, but the horizontal and vertical loading is very common on my end. Multiple times every hour if I visit the PDM.
 

Ramza

Banned
I love my PS4 but Sony really needs a new team to work on their OS. I loved the XMB, and the Vita one is OK, but the PS4 one was extremely short sighted. It's as if they never thought of people having more than 5 or 10 digital games.
 
I've had some friend's list lag but I've actually never seen any of the other stuff.

For the record my PS4 is getting replaced at the moment for the 'eject' bug.
 

geordiemp

Member
Welcome to the PlayStation Dynamic Menu.
ITYiQ8W.jpg


Now as the PS4 is a very connected device that likes to inform you what goes on in the world of Playstation it communicates with the Playstation Network.

Grabbing your friends list, telling you what other add-ons you have available or could purchase. How many people like the game you play. Its aim is to enrich the experience by display information about the state of the community and games.
I am fully behind that aim and share that vision for my games console.

The issue is when this UI doesn't behave the way it's supposed to by various parameters that Sony apparently didn't account for or the production system differing a lot from the test system. (Scalability is hard, I'm not denying that.)

Just see the way the Friends List can break if you have a lot of friends that are online:
vmndzi.gif


Or the horizontal scrolling:
hxihqm.gif


.

Found a solution to this a few days ago - I USED put Ps4 in idle when not in use to charge the controller.

If you fully turn off the Ps4 and reboot from cold then all the PSN services work properly again.



Must be a bug when booting from idle mode, especially if its been done a few times.

Sounds like a memory leak type thing that builds over time and is killed with a proper restart.

PLease everyone when this happens reboot from cold your Ps4 and see if it solves the issue (worked for me). If so Sony needs to improve the idle start up....
 

USC-fan

Banned
Never had this problem but I have an ssd in my ps4 and im hard wired.

Ps4 is crazy fast with an ssd. Very good upgrade! You can get an 500gb for under $200.
 
The horizontal scrolling kills me. It's just such an inelegant way of displaying the information, especially for someone who has a lot of digital content on their system.
All those PS+ games are starting to add up, so I really hope they improve this in the years to come.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
I've had some friend's list lag but I've actually never seen any of the other stuff.

For the record my PS4 is getting replaced at the moment for the 'eject' bug.
That trophy thing in particular I believe must be some bug that is caused because the rest of the system is already in a state of disarray.
When stuff goes wrong in the execution then you can create some very interesting oddities.

I've worked in embedded firmware development and the non-reproducible bugs we saw were crazy. :p

Never had this problem but I have an ssd in my ps4 and im hard wired.
The PS4 in the OP uses a 1TB SSHD. I never had that happen and I use stock, but others have.
 

lazarus43

Neo Member
I've had a lot of the same issues that others here reported. My fix was to set a static IP on the PS4, then it all disappeared. Don't know if this will fix everyone's issue, but it seemed as though something was happening with DHCP, my PS4 would still indicate that it was online, but nothing would load. Could possibly be an OS or wireless adapter firmware issue.
 
I'm not too picky. 49 times out of 50 that I boot my ps4 I just want to play the disc that's in the drive or the downloaded game I last played.

It lets me do that in just a few seconds. Works fine.

The Xbox one dash is largely the same but I really like how it resumes the game where you were when you shut it off.
 
It does seem to be tied to your friends list. I've had all of these problems shown in the OP over the past few weeks, I thought it was because of the most recent update.

But, because of Destiny my friends list really grew, so I just decided to delete about 20 people, now I'm down to 30 and suddenly the UI is just as fast as it was when I first got my PS4, even friends list is finally loading almost instantly.
 

w00zey

Member
when do we get fucking folders? I need folders this long line of games is killing me. I need order amongst the chaos.
 

TwistedN

Member
Sometimes when I try to access the Playstation Store while a game is suspended the homepage just doesn't pop up at all, only thing it has is "O Cancel" at the bottom. Has this happened to any of you?
 

bedlamite

Member
The horizontal scrolling kills me. It's just such an inelegant way of displaying the information, especially for someone who has a lot of digital content on their system.
All those PS+ games are starting to add up, so I really hope they improve this in the years to come.

w00zey said:
when do we get fucking folders? I need folders this long line of games is killing me. I need order amongst the chaos.

The current UI is fine for scrolling through 4 or 5 games, but when you have a larger collection it's a real pain to scroll through everything.

Folders, a jump list, anything. Sony needs to implement something, and quick.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
The current UI is fine for scrolling through 4 or 5 games, but when you have a larger collection it's a real pain to scroll through everything.

Folders, a jump list, anything. Sony needs to implement something, and quick.
We're quickly approaching peak scroll! :-D
 

neobiz

Member
Must be a bug when booting from idle mode, especially if its been done a few times.

Sounds like a memory leak type thing that builds over time and is killed with a proper restart.

PLease everyone when this happens reboot from cold your Ps4 and see if it solves the issue (worked for me). If so Sony needs to improve the idle start up....

That works for me, I've been doing a total shutdown every couple of days for the last 2 weeks or so.
 

Liamario

Banned
The current UI is fine for scrolling through 4 or 5 games, but when you have a larger collection it's a real pain to scroll through everything.

Folders, a jump list, anything. Sony needs to implement something, and quick.

'Sony' and 'quick' go together like soup and ice cream.
 

Caayn

Member
Never had those problems, first time hearing about them. I do have some problems with the vertical scrolling. For example with Watch Dogs the screen doesn't follow the cursor.
 

Ricky_R

Member
I haven't used the PS4 extensively, so I don't really know if those issues have happened to me, tbh. However, one that has happened to me quite a few times is that the store won't load. It's pretty annoying.
 
Some of these problems I experience but not frequently. I would say the friends list thing is on a case by case situation.

When PSN is having some downtime, it will move slow but normally it moves pretty fast. I usually always have 40+ friends online.

My problems stem mostly from...

  • PS Store taking forever to come up when I click it.
  • Friends list taking forever to load due to downtime.
  • Horizontal scrolling sluggish while playing a game sometimes.
  • Pictures in messages really not loading up at all.
  • Messages having a timestamp of 5 minutes ago when it's actually was sent a second ago.
  • Infinite loading if it's a group conversation in messages.


That's all I got for you.
 

Meantime

Member
Sometimes when I try to access the Playstation Store while a game is suspended the homepage just doesn't pop up at all, only thing it has is "O Cancel" at the bottom. Has this happened to any of you?

Yes, and it continues to happen even if you force quit the game. The only way to fix it that I've found is to reboot the console. It's annoying.
 

Allforce

Member
when do we get fucking folders? I need folders this long line of games is killing me. I need order amongst the chaos.

They honestly just need to move "Library" to be a static tile on the LEFT of the damn bar instead of all the way to the right. It makes no sense why it's not there. It should be

Library -> What's New -> Every other tile in order of last used.

It's a simple fix I would think, not involving elaborate folders and needless drilling down. If anything make the Library have options for Large Icons, Small Icons, List, etc. in order to get more or less information on your screen as you prefer.
 

jcm

Member
None of that has happened to me, but I dislike the UI in general. I can't ever find anything quickly.
 

Busigkatt

Banned
The thing I want the most right now is a folder system. Remember the fakes that came out a couple of months ago? Yeah, those looks perfect! It's baffling that Sony still haven't given us this. It's been a year since the release soon!

jN0Ke97.jpg


These things needs to be fixed aswell:

  • Leave the system in power saving mode and boot it straight up, and continue to play your game (Like on Xbox One)
  • Invites for games and parties pops up inside your currently played games
Overall I feel like the system actually have a way worse OS than Xbox One. It's more simple and easy to undestand at first, but it has some huge problems. Microsoft are really good a fixing things and hearing their community out. If It wasen't for the graphics, X1 would be my main console right now. Fix this Sony!
 
I regularly have the friend list and horizontal issues. I also regularly leave my ps4 in standby so it can auto update games and such. I think I am going to start turning it all the way off to see if it does help with this.

I think the friend servers are just horrible though. When Diablo 3 RoS came out i added 150+ friends over that timeframe.

After that it became impossible to scroll through and find friends who were towards the bottom so I decided to delete some friends. I actually got "banned" temporarily from the friend server after deleting about 50 friends because I was pinging it too much. The fact that you have to remove friends one at a time sucks instead of having mass delete options but even worse is that whenever you try to manage your friends list you will get blocked after making too many changes.
 

Allforce

Member
It has to be related to the Friends list, I have had my PS4 since launch and never had any issues until I went over 100. I deleted people after there was a glitch in Assassins Creed 4 related to the friends list and I've never had an issue since.

I have kept this thing on Standby now for close to a year and have it on at least 5-6 hours a night. None of the glitchiness shown in the OP at all. It can't be a hardware issue, it has to be something to do with the friends list because that is the common theme here (ex: I added a ton of people and now's it's fucked!)
 

Upinsmoke

Member
My only issues (besides the times its offline!) are sometimes the store just won't load and I'll have to reboot my ps4 and the message delay is ridiculous.


I turn my ps4 off every time I've finished with it though.
 

Carl

Member
Wow, never seen the trophy thing!

Friends list though, wow. Can't remember the last time it actually worked. Pile of shit.
 
It makes the consoles feel really rushed. On top of the current feature set barely working, or being downright piss poor.....there's a ton of basic features missing. Simply unacceptable.

The fact that we don't have download limits / throttling features when digital downloads are up to 50GB just blows my mind.
 
The UI should work if you have 10 or 100 friends online. Sony set the limit and the PDM should hold up to that limit. I personally have not had any major UI problem aside from things taking larger to load up at times. I think the PDM is a good starting point but its very lacking in being fully featured. I'm surprised how both companies started out of the gate so behind when it comes to features. When last gen systems had a fine ground work in place already. Microsoft have the skills to improve the UI quick while Sony's weakness shows here in how long it take for them to update and build on the UI. Sorting, folders, backgrounds, and pining icons to the front seem like no brainers to me and should be ready well before a year into the system life.
 
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