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My Living Room Gaming Audio Conundrum

B

BBboy20

Member

For the record, the reason I'm posting this now is because Bayonetta 2 is being released next week and time is in the essence for me...and that my problem seems unique enough for it's own thread...

Topic 1
The Logitech Z-5500 Digital has been the surround sound system of choice for me since 2008. Highs and lows (not a pun), it's what makes up my home entertainment system...Until I personally discovered that the WiiU was not sampling through all the speakers. Researching this got me NoeGAF's Surround Sound FAQ so if I want to utilize LCPM 5.1 with a HDMI for the system, I'll have to get a receiver that can utilize it. Of course, looking at the prices, I've gone "YIKES" at this direction. For a long time, I've relied on the Psyclone Source Selector, mainly so my TV, 360 and PS3 can utilize their optical cable jacks, but I have a feeling audiophiles look at this as a toy compared to what these receivers can do but once again, those prices (and yes, I've seem to notice optical really seems dependent on Dolby and DTS)...though, I do wonder if the Z-5500 is even capable of whatever conversion it can take to get the WiiU to actually output surround sound. D=

Topic 2
The other conundrum but a lot less expensive direction is headphones which actually what got me started about this. I live with others so I don't want to disturb them when they're here but I also want to get that first play through experience with minimal sacrifice of audio quality so this is where this topic comes up. I actually don't have much experience with them in the console space so my PS3 Wireless Headset has been my only foray into it. When I play PS3 games with it, I was deeply surprised how, at times, I can hear details I didn't notice on my surround system though the problem is that sometimes, even for a moment, the audio kind of makes a noise as a indication of a loss (I have used this on my PC though I seem to notice just a slight loss despite the receiver being next to me) but I'd figure that seems to be the case for wireless frequencies.

I do plan on getting a PS4 in the future so I also have to take consideration to a pair that doesn't just involve the WiiU so I've researched things, including threads here both in gaming and off-topic but maybe direct, precise answers can help here through this list of questions (my budget would be around the $100 range):
  • Will there be loss connections even being wired by USB\3.5-1/4 connections?
  • Do all wireless headsets still need receivers even when being connected to device?
  • Is it true that audio quality in headphone jacks in stereo systems aren't that great anyways?
  • How much of a difference there is to USB & phone connectors in relation to audio? [*}Am I better off with headphones that has it's own mini surround system that they call amps?
  • Is it better to still pursue wired headphones/headsets?
At the end of the day, I'm not sure I'm willing to go through such an expensive endeavor (let alone less then a week) just to make sure I can hear Bayonetta (2) at the clearest yet also the most precise manner so bear with my noob worries and knowledge.

Actually, has anyone here have the exact ideal set-up and have played Bayonetta 2 (rather by import or demo)? If so, is there that much of a difference between non-LCPM and LCPM sound?
 
S

spadge

Member
A proper surround setup isn't incredibly expensive, and you can start small and build up.
My complete 7.1 setup cost me around £380 total:
Onkyo tx-Nr626 - £230
Wharfedale diamond 9 stereo speakers - £40
JBL 5 speaker kit (center and surrounds)- £50
Eltax Subwoofer - £60

They're not the best speakers, but the setup still sounds miles better than any TV or "home theatre in a box" type sets.
I'd recommend buying the best receiver you can afford along with some decent stereo speakers, then add more when you can afford to.
 
T

thuway

Member
Audio is a VERY deep well that can be stupidly expensive and ridiculously deceptive all at the same time. Fortunately, excellent quality and affordability can go hand in hand, if you decide to buy everything one component at a time.

The most important thing to remember is that the biggest upgrade one can do outside the loudspeaker - is - ROOM CORRECTION. In a shit room, a 10 thousand dollar pair of speakers can sound like a $200 dollar home theater in a box.

If you really want to dive deep into audio and be in the game for the long haul - I suggest purchasing a HDMI 2.0 receiver with good reviews (the latest Sony DNR series is excellent) and buying a pair of stereo speakers (Magnepan, used AV123 Rockets, or Polk Lsi). From there, build up slowly and within a few years, your system will be killer.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
I never thought of all people, Thuway would respond to me.

Yeah, getting a receiver is really becoming less likely and may not even consider one in the near future but I'll keep this in mind.

EDIT: I checked craiglist and there is one that claims that it's a still packaged sony str-dh540 for $160 yet looking at the reviews, it seems like it's all over the place.

I do wonder though if anybody actually used that Sony Gold headset for the WiiU? Does it work?
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
for a receiver you really only need HDMI LPCM - some of the earliest HDMI enabled receivers will do that. And there should be plenty of used ones around as people upgraded to those that supported the more advanced bluray codecs - there was a period of about 2-3 years where the audio support changed rapidly and you can take advantage of that.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
thuway said:
The most important thing to remember is that the biggest upgrade one can do outside the loudspeaker - is - ROOM CORRECTION. In a shit room, a 10 thousand dollar pair of speakers can sound like a $200 dollar home theater in a box.
Click to expand...

That's a little hyperbolic.

A decent pair of speakers will sound substantially better than a paper cone speaker even in an untreated room.

I would give this the following order of importance:

1) Your speakers should be where the most money goes. A good pair of speakers will last you 20 years. A good 5.1 system can be bought for 800-900 dollars.

2) Subs - this can be a giant money sink. If you are in an apartment don't even go here, if you own a home and like bass, I would point towards SVS or Epik for a decent subwoofer.

3) Your receiver will be replaced really often. Even if you think it won't some new audio format will come along and you'll just have to have it. So don't go stupid with a receiver.

4) Sound treating the room at primary and secondary reflection points is a very good idea. Getting some bass traps for the corners and reflective dispersion panels for directly behind the viewer is a good idea.

OR Given that you have room-mates

1) Spend 200-300 bucks on a really really nice set of headphones and a DAC (I own a used pair of Audio-Technica ATH-A900X on Amazon and a FiiO E7 USB DAC AMP combo.

If you need to be able to chat while online, get an Antlion ModMic and a splitter that splits the headphone signal from the mic signal. I have this really weird frankensteined set-up for my Xbox One where I split the signal from the headset adapter, then run the headphone out through my AMP (FiiO E7) with my headphones plugged into the amp, and then run the mic set-up to a modmic. Really good quality sound and my friends say I sound better than anyone else over live as the modmic is a high quality mic.

I assume the WiiU gamepad has a headphone out?

I went from the first set-up (crazy good 5.1 theater system) when I lived in Texas to the second set-up when I moved to Manhattan. The second set-up sounds better AND my wife can be working in the same room or in the office and can't hear anything at all.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
mrklaw said:
for a receiver you really only need HDMI LPCM - some of the earliest HDMI enabled receivers will do that. And there should be plenty of used ones around as people upgraded to those that supported the more advanced bluray codecs - there was a period of about 2-3 years where the audio support changed rapidly and you can take advantage of that.
Click to expand...
That's why I mentioned this person on Craiglist who has a almost $300 dollar for $170. I mean, if I do contact him and make a deal this weekday, maybe my speakers can utilize 5.1 for the WiiU. Though, looking at my system's specs, it's max Root Mean Square is 500 while it's total power is 1000. Looking at that receiver, I have no idea if my speakers and sub woofer is compatible with it.

StoOgE said:
3) Your receiver will be replaced really often. Even if you think it won't some new audio format will come along and you'll just have to have it. So don't go stupid with a receiver.
Click to expand...
Even within console gaming? I mean, from here on out, I shouldn't worry about new formats or whatever until the new console(?) generation comes around, right?

I assume the WiiU gamepad has a headphone out?
Click to expand...
Yes though I notice some say it's not a good enough jack while others say so. I'm gonna' play Bayonetta 2 with the Pro Controller but you can use the Gamepad as a dedicated audio jack.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
StoOgE said:
If you need to be able to chat while online, get an Antlion ModMic and a splitter that splits the headphone signal from the mic signal. I have this really weird frankensteined set-up for my Xbox One where I split the signal from the headset adapter, then run the headphone out through my AMP (FiiO E7) with my headphones plugged into the amp, and then run the mic set-up to a modmic. Really good quality sound and my friends say I sound better than anyone else over live as the modmic is a high quality mic.
Click to expand...

I've heard so many good things about the audio quality of the ModMic. I haven't personally used it, but it seems like your best price/performance recommendation at this point.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Grief.exe said:
I've heard so many good things about the audio quality of the ModMic. I haven't personally used it, but it seems like your best price/performance recommendation at this point.
Click to expand...

It's really good stuff for the price, and for me it was worth being able to get a really quality pair of headphones that I can use for day to day use (music listening, in bed Netflix, airplane) *and* be able to use for online gaming as well.

The Modmic has really been a life saver on top of being really high quality. I've been really happy with the purchase.
 
H

Hedrush

Member
Ooh this thread is convenient. My Sony soundbar has stopped working, but it's weird, it powers on but then immediately powers off, it was fine last night before we all went to bed. Anyway, I've been looking at various replacements and really like the look of the new Sony HT XT1 Soundstage. It's a bit more expensive than my now deceased soundbar, I say a bit more but it's actually £180 more expensive. So has anyone got this unit? Is it worth the money? I've looked at various reviews and they all seem pretty positive.

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-dvd...ny-htxt1-cek-2-1-soundstage-22089486-pdt.html

Thoughts
 
B

BBboy20

Member
Wel, ok, I missed a detail: apparently my subwoofer uses a DSUB jack and I seem to notice plenty of receivers don't have them and I don't think my local Best Buy has a reciever with that jack.
 
H

Herne

Member
This is above the budget you specified but I bought it a couple of months back and it has been perfect. Great sound, plenty of hdmi inputs, support for 4k and 3d, supports the latest audio formats (dolby truehd, dts master audio, etc.). A complete kit for very little, it's very powerful for the price, and my Wii U sounds amazing with it. We used to have a Logitech X-540 system hooked up to our media pc, and this is a definite upgrade in everything over that.

If you can save for it, I highly recommend it.
 
S

sbrew

Banned
thuway said:
Audio is a VERY deep well that can be stupidly expensive and ridiculously deceptive all at the same time. Fortunately, excellent quality and affordability can go hand in hand, if you decide to buy everything one component at a time.

The most important thing to remember is that the biggest upgrade one can do outside the loudspeaker - is - ROOM CORRECTION. In a shit room, a 10 thousand dollar pair of speakers can sound like a $200 dollar home theater in a box.

If you really want to dive deep into audio and be in the game for the long haul - I suggest purchasing a HDMI 2.0 receiver with good reviews (the latest Sony DNR series is excellent) and buying a pair of stereo speakers (Magnepan, used AV123 Rockets, or Polk Lsi). From there, build up slowly and within a few years, your system will be killer.
Click to expand...


Listen to this person.

Setup is the most important thing. "Low-end" speakers set up correctly will spank the shit out of "audiophile" speakers poorly set up.

Speaking as someone who went past the point of diminishing returns LONG AGO. My audio system: Audyssey DSX 11.2 speaker system (yes, 11 speakers and 2 subwoofers) with the subwoofers being 2000 watt Infinite Baffle in-floor units capable of displacing close to 30 liters of air and measuring flat below 10hz in-room.
 
N

Noob Fu

Member
I have a Yamaha reciever with no speakers. All Yamaha recievers have silent cinema that enables surround sound on headphones. Takes in DTS, DD and all sources and mixes it. Get a good pair of headphones and your set. I have Seinhauser (however you spell them). Those mixamps only do DD. For movies your screwed if it has DTS on them but with the reciever it does all sound sources.
All my consoles hook through it with HDMI so no need for optical.
 
C

CLEEK

Member
My WiiU FAQ thread still has legs. Neat.

I'll answer your last questions first. If you don't have a receiver that accepts multi channel LPCM, you will only get stereo from the WiiU. Everything accepts 2.0 LPCM. That's just regular stereo.

My advice would be by a 2nd hand AVR and speakers. You could probably reuse your existing Logitech speaker at a push, especially for the surround. $100 won't get you much at all if you're after an AVR, five speakers and a sub.

My AV setup is a bottom end Pioneer VSX AVR, some stock clearance Mordant Short fronts, rears and centre which I got crazy cheap. And a stock clearance Audio Pro sub. I spent about AU$700 in total.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
SPE said:
My WiiU FAQ thread still has legs. Neat.

I'll answer your last questions first. If you don't have a receiver that accepts multi channel LPCM, you will only get stereo from the WiiU. Everything accepts 2.0 LPCM. That's just regular stereo.

My advice would be by a 2nd hand AVR and speakers. You could probably reuse your existing Logitech speaker at a push, especially for the surround. $100 won't get you much at all if you're after an AVR, five speakers and a sub.

My AV setup is a bottom end Pioneer VSX AVR, some stock clearance Mordant Short fronts, rears and centre which I got crazy cheap. And a stock clearance Audio Pro sub. I spent about AU$700 in total.
Click to expand...
Speakers will probably the last unless somehow they don't utilize the LPCM that well. It still urks me I'll have to get a new subwoofer along with the receiver right away as doing this direction so soon is financially exhausting. (I thought I would just let this go but after actually playing Bayonetta 2, it is driving me to wanting a newer system )

Also: Jesus, just researching both the realm of receivers and headphones and how they (might) relate to the WiiU is a god damn rabbit hole. @_@
 
L

lt519

Member
I was in the same boat as you OP, my receiver didn't handle the signal and I wasn't even getting voice out of AC3, just the music. I couldn't figure it out.

I'm not an audiophile so I don't care all that much. My set up had the Wii U HDMI going through the receiver and then the receiver connected to HDMI to the TV. Instead I flipped it so the Wii U HDMI goes to the TV and then my TV has optical out that goes to the receiver. Somehow this fixed the problem.

Can anyone explain to me why this fixed it (if it truly did) and what I really ended up with?
 
K

KentBrockman

Member
Noob Fu said:
I have a Yamaha reciever with no speakers. All Yamaha recievers have silent cinema that enables surround sound on headphones. Takes in DTS, DD and all sources and mixes it. Get a good pair of headphones and your set. I have Seinhauser (however you spell them). Those mixamps only do DD. For movies your screwed if it has DTS on them but with the reciever it does all sound sources.
All my consoles hook through it with HDMI so no need for optical.
Click to expand...

This is the best option. Yamaha Silent Cinema works great and is one of the only ways to get a qualty surround experience through headphones from the Wii U. Most other surround headsets require the source to be Dolby Digital. This will also work perfectly with the PS4.
 
B

BBboy20

Member
uUA0VlL.jpg


I did it. All of this for a 720p game... Probably won't power it right away since there's a thunderstorm going on but yeah, I'm still in shock I went ahead and did this in one go. Also, turns out I am not a sub person as when the Best Buy employee tested out a Klipsch and at max, was rather overwhelming so I took the cheap(ish)est they had as just having a booming bass is good enough for me.Though, now I'm concerned about ventilation since, from the instructions, these things can get hot easily. This Yamaha wants 20-30cm of space yet the most ideal spot of the entertainment center where I can easily plug in and out the AVR is this spot:

D9Rxep5.jpg


I measured this and obviously this isn't wide enough of any diameter but I'm hoping this is the company being cautious then being super serious. =/
 
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