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Combat in Xenoblade is so damn confusing... (mild spoilers)

Stiflers Mom

Stiflers Mom

Banned
I just started Xenoblade on my Wii U and am about five Hours in.

So far I like it a lot.

But...

Combat is starting to really get confusing to me. It's like almost too many things happen at the same time, and I don't have any idea what to concentrate on, with all this blinking shit happening on the screen, people and monsters running around, special attacks being inflicted upon me which I am supposed to prevent by doing some Monado defense magic thingy, attack chains, etc..

Btw, I am currently at that point right after meeting Sharla and Juju at that camp for the first time, fighting that Tentacle Mechon thats behind the bridge.

Anyone any advice how to get stuff more into some order, or what to concentrate on in a fight?

It feels so overwhelming at the moment, I almost don't want to go on with the game...

Thanks...
 
J

James Scott

Banned
A lot of Shulk's attacks are location based meaning you do extra damage depending where you hit the monster.
BACK SLASH! -> hit a monsters back.
 
C

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
never found the combat confusing at all. It's basically like a MMORPG: select action from quickslots, cooldowns, positioning and chain attacks where you choose every member's attack. It's really straightforward
 
Stiflers Mom

Stiflers Mom

Banned
Currygan said:
never found the combat confusing at all. It's basically like a MMORPG: select action from quickslots, cooldowns, positioning and chain attacks where you choose every member's attack. It's really straightforward
Click to expand...

I never played MMORPGs.

Last JRPG I played was FF7 back in 1998.

Believe it or not.

It seems war has changed.. ;)
 
mrmickfran

mrmickfran

Member
Everybody yelling doesn't help either.

"LOOKS LIKE WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE!"
"NOW IT'S REYN TIME!"
"BORN IN A WORLD OF STRIFE"
"I'M COOLING OFF"
"SUMMON BOLT"
"SUMMON AQUA"

Still my GOAT RPG though.
 
N

Neufr0

Neo Member
That's why you have auto-attacks unless it gets too confusing. But the skills are unlocked gratually so you have time to get used to it. For me, Tales of Graces is a lot more confusing in its gameplay (at first).
 
S

Syril

Member
When it gives a tutorial, it usually adds another one into the menu that explains things further. You can always reread the tutorials outside of battle.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Standard attacks are automatic so you can just stand by the enemy to beat it. You skills have to replenish so don't use them all in one go but space them out. Chain attacks will allow you to easily inflict stack up states. You can make longer chain attacks the higher your affliction with other party is. Also chain attacks are useful for forcing your team mates to rally on a certain enemy if you're fighting a group.

Reila said:
No, the worst part are the armors/equips of the game. They are ugly as hell. The combat definitely isn't the game's better aspect, though.
Click to expand...

They should steal The Last Story's armour system. One of the best I've seen.
 
L

LaneDS

Member
It isn't great advice, admittedly, but try sticking with it.

Pick a character that you like in terms of their role and try to use them primarily. Every character has a specific role to play in your party (one may be tanky, designed to take most of the damage and keep enemies attacking them, others may be damage dealers or healers). Those roles become more clear as the game goes on and more abilities are granted. Of the roles listed above, pick one that you find the most interesting or enjoyable and stick with it and try to build your party members skills around the roles you want them to have (AI controlled). Beat up some easier enemies for a while and I'm guessing it'll start to click and the craziness happening all around you will make more and more sense.

Early on the game is a little overwhelming with the systems, but in time I think you'll find it not overly confusing (and most importantly, more fun and rewarding).
 
J

jonno394

Member
James Scott said:
A lot of Shulk's attacks are location based meaning you do extra damage depending where you hit the monster.
BACK SLASH! -> hit a monsters back.
Click to expand...

This...

Currygan said:
never found the combat confusing at all. It's basically like a MMORPG: select action from quickslots, cooldowns, positioning and chain attacks where you choose every member's attack. It's really straightforward
Click to expand...

and this.

If you are maining Shulk then you need to see what attacks are more effective from where. One gives double damage when used from behind the enemy, another breaks the enemy when used from the side, another does good damage to a group of enemies in front of you etc etc

When you get a vision of impending death you need to use one of the monados abilities such as shield or speed, or get one of your team mates to use one of their abilities that might stop the vision, such as Reyn drawing attention to himself to get the attacked and seeing as he's usually the highest defence and HP of your team he won't die.

Some enemies have a spike effect that damages you every time you attack them, you need to use Purge when dealing with these.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
The first time I had it rough in Xenoblade, but my latest restart (playing currently) the combat feels pretty great. You just have to take time reading on all the stuff, how aggro works, what all your arts and skills do, using the right gems with the right armour. It's basically a singleplayer MMO, so set up tank/damage/healer/buff roles and stick to that. You can let Reyn do the tanking and use Shulk for all the damage, for example Stream Edge, Slit Edge, Reyn toples and you attack from behind with Back Slash dealing hefty damage, maybe putting in a Buster if the enemy is powerful. If playing Reyn just keep attracting all the agro and use your auras well.

If you play with higher resolution on Dolphin, you'll understand better what's going on and can better anticipate on all the enemies attacks. The combat feels pretty dynamic once you get the hang of it.
 
M

Mupod

Member
my main issue with it is that the AI is a shitty tank and can't hold enemies properly. But I feel obligated to play Shulk because of his monado abilities.

This is a big reason I'm looking forward to the next one, I can just have myself take care of the tank role, which is what I'd prefer to play anyways.

I still haven't finished it, but I will definitely go back to it before the Wii U game. I'm thinking I'll just play as someone else when I do.
 
L

LonelyGreyWolf

Banned
ohlawd said:
are you guys serious

this game has a simple as fuck battle system
Click to expand...

Wouldn't phrase it like that but I agree, it's really simple imo.

I don't know, read the descriptions of all the arts and just use them when appropriate? Or just spam them and win anyway.
 
T

threelights

Member
Yeah, they've made it overly confusing to seem like there's more to it than there actually is.

It's the most basic thing OP.

If you're playing as Shulk: Walk up to the enemy, normal attacks go off automatically, so you just keep circling the enemy and using his skills. Look at the descriptions, some of them deal more damage when you're behind, some of them deal more damage on the side, so you use them accordingly.

Reyn is a dumbed down version of that.

The only other thing to worry about is the gauge at the top, check it every once in a while, when it's filled you can do a Chain Attack, which is just you connecting a bunch of skills together.

The combat is actually extremely weak in this game =X
 
M

mrmyhthef

Member
Concentrate on doing Break -> Topple combos for now. Use Back Slash a ton. This should get you far enough until you're comfortable doing other things.
 
S

Septimius

Junior Member
ohlawd said:
are you guys serious

this game has a simple as fuck battle system
Click to expand...

It's not "simple as fuck". You can't say that. Final Fantasy FFVII I could agree has a simple as fuck battle system, not minding the calculations that happen. You choose an attack, that's it. Try lightning against water enemies. In this game, you do Break -> Topple -> Daze -> Stuff -> More stuff. You gotta position yourself, you've gotta do it on the fly, remember what to do when. It flows with me, but only after a good while. There are still things that baffle me a bit about the system. It is not simple. You can say it's not chaotic, but you can not make an objective argument that this system is simple.
 
openrob

openrob

Member
I felt like that but realised that I was thinking there was MORE to it than there actually is.
It's pretty simple.

Choose arts. Spam them essentily. I'm about half way through, and with all the characters I can put on my party then the tactitcs are in choosing party members and prep.

I still just mainly use shulk and spam Arts though haha
 
T

thewhitehawk

Member
I don't understand what's so complicated about it. You use a skill, while it's on cooldown, you use another. You try to use some skills in succession for an increase effect so you pay attention to what moves your team mates are doing and when they afflict a certain status on an enemy you use your skill that does bonus damage. That's pretty much all there is too it. Some enemies require you to use spells or other techniques, but your team mates will clue you on what you need to do in those situations or the game will instruct you in some other way.
 
E

Earthpainting

Member
It took me quite a long time before it clicked with me too, but I enjoyed it quite a lot once I felt like I was in control. One of the most key parts I can tell you is that a Shulk player needs to be ready for quick Monado Art use (such as speed, shield, ...), positioning yourself in order to maximise your art damage and trying to slip away from aggro in favour for Reyn and Dunban. Especially with mechon enemies, you'll probably want to be ready for topples as well. Take some time to read all the descriptions of your abilities, and pay special mind to their colours. Each colour corresponds to a type of attack, and many serve a specific purpose.

Finally the biggest tip I can give you is to let your characters use their auto attack too. They'll use weaker regular attacks constantly as long as you aren't using arts, and using an art resets the timer of your next regular attack. Putting two and two together, the best time to use your arts is right after a regular attack. This way you can get both the chip damage and your special attack. The regular attack may not look like a significant amount of damage, but it adds up quickly. It also allows you to spread your arts out better, giving you more time to let them cool down.

The battle system becomes actually quite simple once you get into a rhythm of a specific character. If you feel like mixing things up, you can change your leader and learn that character's role.
 
C

Crayolan

Member
Yea I found it confusing my first time too. Make sure you read all the tutorials, for me realizing that there was a command to get your party to focus on a single enemy made a huge difference. You might be missing something key like that.

If you're confused about the visions, that's pretty simple, it just warns you when someone is about to die. If the attack name is white, use shield, if it's red, use speed, and if it's purple, you're SOL (for now). Also, if your monado shield level isn't equal the number of a white attack, it won't do anything, so always keep that at a decent level.

Zing said:
This is a single player MMORPG. If you have played FFXI or maybe WoW, it all makes sense.
Click to expand...

Aside from the quests, not really.

ohlawd said:
are you guys serious

this game has a simple as fuck battle system
Click to expand...

It's not that simple for people who have no experience with action RPGs. Or at least I assume that's the case, I had pretty much exclusively played turn-based RPGs before Xenoblade.
 
J

JCX

Member
Part of the issue is that you naturally start with a narrow range of powers. I generally just followed the Break -> Topple -> Daze strategy, which worked better as the party learned more Artes.
 
H

Hibiki Kurosawa

Member
I really didn't find it confusing at all. It was rather straightforward. Has MMO style battle elements while you have to pay attention to conditions, attack from behind or the side, use special attacks at the right time to knock foes down and use chain attacks etc.

I hope I remember that all correctly. It's been a while.
 
BasilZero

BasilZero

Member
Not a big fan of the battle system either.

But after playing it for 20+ hours straight I got used to it. If you think about it - it is like a mmo.
 
Stiflers Mom

Stiflers Mom

Banned
Earthpainting said:
It took me quite a long time before it clicked with me too, but I enjoyed it quite a lot once I felt like I was in control. One of the most key parts I can tell you is that a Shulk player needs to be ready for quick Monado Art use (such as speed, shield, ...), positioning yourself in order to maximise your art damage and trying to slip away from aggro in favour for Reyn and Dunban. Especially with mechon enemies, you'll probably want to be ready for topples as well. Take some time to read all the descriptions of your abilities, and pay special mind to their colours. Each colour corresponds to a type of attack, and many serve a specific purpose.

Finally the biggest tip I can give you is to let your characters use their auto attack too. They'll use weaker regular attacks constantly as long as you aren't using arts, and using an art resets the timer of your next regular attack. Putting two and two together, the best time to use your arts is right after a regular attack. This way you can get both the chip damage and your special attack. The regular attack may not look like a significant amount of damage, but it adds up quickly. It also allows you to spread your arts out better, giving you more time to let them cool down.

The battle system becomes actually quite simple once you get into a rhythm of a specific character. If you feel like mixing things up, you can change your leader and learn that character's role.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the kind of advice I wanted to read..

Thanks (also to all the others who bothered writing something constructive)... :)


Crayolan said:
Yea I found it confusing my first time too. Make sure you read all the tutorials, for me realizing that there was a command to get your party to focus on a single enemy made a huge difference. You might be missing something key like that.
Click to expand...
Didn't know that one... Thanks a lot... I definitely need to study the tutorials more than I already do, it seems..

Crayolan said:
If you're confused about the visions, that's pretty simple, it just warns you when someone is about to die. If the attack name is white, use shield, if it's red, use speed, and if it's purple, you're SOL (for now). Also, if your monado shield level isn't equal the number of a white attack, it won't do anything, so always keep that at a decent level.
.
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks... :)
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
I didn't think it was confusing myself. It just felt disjointed and clumsy. Maybe I'll give it a second chance someday, but after ten hours it just grated on me.
 
O

ohlawd

Member
Septimius said:
It's not "simple as fuck". You can't say that. Final Fantasy FFVII I could agree has a simple as fuck battle system, not minding the calculations that happen. You choose an attack, that's it. Try lightning against water enemies. In this game, you do Break -> Topple -> Daze -> Stuff -> More stuff. You gotta position yourself, you've gotta do it on the fly, remember what to do when. It flows with me, but only after a good while. There are still things that baffle me a bit about the system. It is not simple. You can say it's not chaotic, but you can not make an objective argument that this system is simple.
Click to expand...

yeah I'm saying all those things you gotta factor in don't make the game any more complex than an action RPG where stuff like combos and positioning do matter. adding in cooldowns and the like doesn't suddenly make the whole thing complicated.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Read all of the tutorials in the menu. It makes things much easier.

I'd never played an MMO or any RPG with a similar combat system, but I was eventually able to wrap my head around Xenoblade and come up with my own play style.

Just stick with it, and focus on one aspect of the game at first: e.g. defense,or speed, or the break->topple->daze system.

Also, pay attention to buffs and debuffs and try to stack them for certain characters to tip the odds in your favor. If you have a fast character, and augment his speed with auras and gems, and make him accumulate all of the aggro, because then you'll a lot of enemies focusing on one party member that they're unable to hit.

Try to exploit stuff like that. And yes, it gets fun... and this is coming from someone who doesn't typically like RPGs.
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
I don't find it confusing. I used Shulk for a good percentage of the game, until
I learned how god-like naked Dunban is
, and I never found it too crazy.

The idea is to think of it as an MMO, and as such, you have rotations. I don't remember the exact combinations you'll want to use, but usually stack the armor break skill (Slit Edge) or other debuff skills then use your damage dealing skills (Back Slash). As you get more used to it and get more skills, your rotation gets more complex, but fairly early on there's not much to it except Slit Edge -> Back Slash, then just autoattack. Rinse and repeat. It takes some getting used to, honestly, but it's pretty simple once you do.

As you unlock skills, remember to keep an eye out for the colors of skills. It'll explain it to you over time, but basically, you'll want to topple enemies to disable their attacks. The order, iirc, was pink -> yellow -> green, to topple then daze.
 
C

Corgi

Banned
it's disappointingly simple at times. Like you can get womped by one of those stronger mobs and there is nothing you could have done better to have won besides having better gear or level.
 
T

threelights

Member
King Gilga said:
Does the battle system get better?

I stopped playing it because it was super boring, like bad mmo combat.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately no. They get more skills, but the battle system itself is always this weak =X

The combat is the worst part of the game (along with the fetch quests). The story does get better as the game goes on though.
 
R

raven777

Member
threelights said:
Unfortunately no. They get more skills, but the battle system itself is always this weak =X

The combat is the worst part of the game (along with the fetch quests). The story does get better as the game goes on though.
Click to expand...

Good to hear. I played around 55~60% and story was terrible in xeno standard. Need to finish the game one day...
 
T

threelights

Member
raven777 said:
Good to hear. I played around 55~60% and story was terrible in xeno standard. Need to finish the game one day...
Click to expand...

Well...

Xeno standards are kinda high =P

It gets better, but unfortunately it never gets as good as Xenogears.

Still worth playing though, as it is pretty good on it's own right.
 
B

Burt

Member
Yeah, I could progress just fine, but was never really clear on why button prompts would jump on the screen or what characters' relationships improving meant or if I was able to fight a large monster without being forced to crane my neck upwards into its ass end for ten minutes of combat.
 
M

Mory Dunz

Member
mrmickfran said:
Everybody yelling doesn't help either.

"LOOKS LIKE WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE!"
"NOW IT'S REYN TIME!"
"BORN IN A WORLD OF STRIFE"
"I'M COOLING OFF"
"SUMMON BOLT"
"SUMMON AQUA"

Still my GOAT RPG though.
Click to expand...
The combat wasn't confusing at all i feel. The tutorials were great. Just read them again.

As for voices, they're very helpful.
If I hear sharla yell heal round, I hold off and healing with shulk. If I hear she's cooling off, I know she won't do anything for a bit. I I haven't heard blossom dance or Monaco buster or something in a while, I can almost tell when their talent art will be full so I can do a better chain attack.

So...yeah
 
D

Damaniel

Banned
StifflersMum said:
I just started Xenoblade on my Wii U and am about five Hours in.

So far I like it a lot.

But...

Combat is starting to really get confusing to me. It's like almost too many things happen at the same time, and I don't have any idea what to concentrate on, with all this blinking shit happening on the screen, people and monsters running around, special attacks being inflicted upon me which I am supposed to prevent by doing some Monado defense magic thingy, attack chains, etc..

Btw, I am currently at that point right after meeting Sharla and Juju at that camp for the first time, fighting that Tentacle Mechon thats behind the bridge.

Anyone any advice how to get stuff more into some order, or what to concentrate on in a fight?

It feels so overwhelming at the moment, I almost don't want to go on with the game...

Thanks...
Click to expand...

You get used to it eventually. I thought that the introduction of new combat mechanics was paced rather well (normal combat, then skills, then combo skills, then Monado skills, then
'seeing the future' skills
), but the first few hours are still confusing. Nothing feels better than being 40 or 50 hours in and tearing stuff up with the full array of attacks and skills available, understanding and juggling between them without any difficulty due to the large amount of practice you end up getting.
 
W

Wildean

Member
Like a lot of things about Xenoblade, I didn't feel like my contribution to the combat was particularly important. I want to give it a second chance, but big and beautiful but strangely cold and hollow is how it felt to me.

Also, playing with Japanese audio, those comments during combat were left untranslated, serving no purpose at all.
 
Z

Zafir

Member
If you're controlling Shulk, it's mainly just positioning and knowing when to use the Monado(which the game does tell you about, mostly). The QTE's you don't really need to worry about too much, they give you bonuses if you manage to hit them, but it's not the end of the world if you don't from what I remember.

I at least found the combat better than XII's(the other 'mmo' like jrpg). But I'm not sure that's saying much considering I really didn't like that combat system at all. :I
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Peltz said:
Read all of the tutorials in the menu. It makes things much easier.

I'd never played an MMO or any RPG with a similar combat system, but I was eventually able to wrap my head around Xenoblade and come up with my own play style.

Just stick with it, and focus on one aspect of the game at first: e.g. defense,or speed, or the break->topple->daze system.

Also, pay attention to buffs and debuffs and try to stack them for certain characters to tip the odds in your favor. If you have a fast character, and augment his speed with auras and gems, and make him accumulate all of the aggro, because then you'll a lot of enemies focusing on one party member that they're unable to hit.

Try to exploit stuff like that. And yes, it gets fun... and this is coming from someone who doesn't typically like RPGs.
Click to expand...

And also remember that if you don't find Shulk's playstyle to your liking, you can always switch to a different person as the main party member. Obviously, this gets more interesting a lot later on in the game than where OP is since he only has a few party members to choose from. But they all pretty much fit into your typical MMO styles (i.e. melee DPS, defense tank, ranged healer, agility/evade tank, etc) or can be setup into a particular style by equipping certain gears/gems, arts, and skill trees/skill links (so you can make your range DPS into a nuke style or a DoT style for example).

I found the combat system most fun later on in the game when I can start trying to mix up the party into different configurations and see if I can make a certain character fit in to a particular style with the right setup. Then see if I can go wreck higher level enemies easily or not.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
The messy UI partly contributed to the cause, as well as the gigantic numbers covering a big part of your screen very often. I hope this is sorted out in the sequel.
 
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