Check out the in-game manual tutorial option you'll have access to whenever you are not engaged in combat. I had to refer to it quite a bit to figure some things out or remind myself about certain things. Also, be sure to check the game's instruction manual as it explains important elements of the overall combat system as well as other things.
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Combat in Xenoblade is so damn confusing... (mild spoilers)
- Thread starter Stiflers Mom
- Start date
Half the battle system isn't well explained but truthfully you don't really need to get it. I was most of the way through the game before I really understood how the party gauge works and how it's used for visions and chain attacks. I had completed the whole game and later read about how the skill colors matters for chain attacks.
SuperChoco
Member
Here's a little run down.
Enemies will aggro towards the person dealing the most damage, so if you continuously use arts as Shulk, enemies will gravitate towards him (which is bad). Characters like Reyn and
can aggro the enemy towards them so squishy characters can take a step back. You can tell if the enemy is aggro towards you if you have a red ring around your character.
You have a party gauge in the upper left hand corner. That increases every time you use an ability correctly (ie using back slash on an enemy's back), press the button prompt correctly, or defeat an enemy. You can use one bar to revive people by standing next to them and pressing B.
Each character has a talent art that can only be used when they do an auto attack a certain number of times. This is the Art in the middle of the row of abilities.
There's a system of Break>Topple>Daze, where each ailment can only be applied if the previous is (as in you can usually only topple an enemy that has break). Break does nothing while Topple immobilizes the enemy and Daze completely stops the enemy. I think at this point of the game, Shulk can break, and Reyn can topple.
Important! Non Monado characters cannot hurt Mechon enemies without having them be toppled first or using Monado Enchant!
Hopefully this will help as a primer.
Enemies will aggro towards the person dealing the most damage, so if you continuously use arts as Shulk, enemies will gravitate towards him (which is bad). Characters like Reyn and
Dunban
You have a party gauge in the upper left hand corner. That increases every time you use an ability correctly (ie using back slash on an enemy's back), press the button prompt correctly, or defeat an enemy. You can use one bar to revive people by standing next to them and pressing B.
Each character has a talent art that can only be used when they do an auto attack a certain number of times. This is the Art in the middle of the row of abilities.
There's a system of Break>Topple>Daze, where each ailment can only be applied if the previous is (as in you can usually only topple an enemy that has break). Break does nothing while Topple immobilizes the enemy and Daze completely stops the enemy. I think at this point of the game, Shulk can break, and Reyn can topple.
Important! Non Monado characters cannot hurt Mechon enemies without having them be toppled first or using Monado Enchant!
Hopefully this will help as a primer.
For me and my brother yes. If you only use Shulk or the combo Shulk-Reyn-Sharla the game combat can get a bit stale but then you receive some characters that spice up the combat system:
-
Dunban
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Melia
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The Heropon Riki
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Seven who is incredible fun to play, hell her playstyle change according to the equipment you put in her.
I loved how every one of them are different and the different combinatios that you could make of them, A thing a lot of people get a little wrong is that they think (and the game suggests) that they need the MMO trifecta (Tank, DPS and Healer) but some characters have abilites that could make posible to have an All Tank Team (Reyn,
Dunban and Riki
Melia and Riki
Dunban and Seven
I love it but I could see why some people could find it boring or even hard to get, the tutorials are good but a lot of people don't like to read and then get stuck in some bosses that need you to put attention to their actions or behavior, also I could see how the skill, affinty and crafting systems are hard to understand even with the tutorials.
Also, for what is worth, I only got the crafting system figured out in my last playtroughth and Oh Goodness! how good is to make a boring character in a broken one...
Sorry for the long post =D
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
It should be noted that certain Arts will start to build up aggro for a party member aside from damage causing ones, i.e. healing. If Sharla does a ton of healing in a short amount of time it could shift aggro towards her. Other defensive arts can also cause a spike in aggro towards the character activating them.
Yeah, this is a big part of things I think - it takes a long while before you get a bunch of new characters, by which point a lot of players are hesitant to shift away from what they're familiar with. And then many of those new characters play so differently that, unless players take the time to figure them out and/or read their battle tutorials, they just give up on them quickly and go back to the party they've mainly been using most of the game to that point.
I never thought the battle system was especially confusing. Then again, I was pretty over-leveled for a lot of the game.
The only part of the game where I felt overwhelmed was at the beginning when you had access to a lot of different systems at once like Crystal Harvesting, Heart to Hearts, Gem Crafting, Collectopedia, Arts and Skill Links, Affinity, etc. A lot of these systems I just didn't bother with until hours after they were initially available.
The only part of the game where I felt overwhelmed was at the beginning when you had access to a lot of different systems at once like Crystal Harvesting, Heart to Hearts, Gem Crafting, Collectopedia, Arts and Skill Links, Affinity, etc. A lot of these systems I just didn't bother with until hours after they were initially available.
I don't remember exactly but I think 5 hours is not much time for that point in the game, I think you should just have more battles so you can get used to all the stuff, there are tons of sidequests you can do for that.
It's actually not really complicated, if you're using Shulk you are the main damage dealer, read the description of his Arts so you can figure out an efficent way of using them.
Just some tips would be use the attacking arts whenever you can, also use light heal whenever you can to help out, and if you get targeted by the enemy use shadow eye.
Remember to keep the monado arts so that when you get a vision tag(that thing on the top of the screen that warn you of a powerfull attack) you can use shield if it's a talent art(written in grey) or speed if it's a phisical art(written in red).
That's really all you need to keep up with the battle system for now, you just need to use your skills and whenever you have a vision tag use the right monado art.
You can read the pretty good in-game tutorials for other clarifications like chain-attacks, I don't remember how everithing work right now.
The AI can actually tank pretty well, you only get targeted if you deal too much damage, that means your doing good, and shadow eye can usually save you in those situarions.
You're still kinda forced to use Shulk early in the game because he's the worst character in the AI control.
It's actually not really complicated, if you're using Shulk you are the main damage dealer, read the description of his Arts so you can figure out an efficent way of using them.
Just some tips would be use the attacking arts whenever you can, also use light heal whenever you can to help out, and if you get targeted by the enemy use shadow eye.
Remember to keep the monado arts so that when you get a vision tag(that thing on the top of the screen that warn you of a powerfull attack) you can use shield if it's a talent art(written in grey) or speed if it's a phisical art(written in red).
That's really all you need to keep up with the battle system for now, you just need to use your skills and whenever you have a vision tag use the right monado art.
You can read the pretty good in-game tutorials for other clarifications like chain-attacks, I don't remember how everithing work right now.
The AI can actually tank pretty well, you only get targeted if you deal too much damage, that means your doing good, and shadow eye can usually save you in those situarions.
You're still kinda forced to use Shulk early in the game because he's the worst character in the AI control.
GuessMyUserName
Member
SHADOW EYE
BACKSLASH
BACKSLASH
That's how I feel about it too.
For me, it felt like the game was ordering me around instead of me having control of the combat.
-The enemy is in front of you?
>Go behind because there's no incentive for you to stay in front.
-The button lights up?
>Press it because why wouldn't you.
I personnaly enjoy other RPGs more because I'm at least able to choose what I want to use whenever I want to depending on the situation (buffs, attacks, spells, healing) ; and while I won't deny that Xenoblade offers you a lot of possibilities to set things up (which is a great thing), the combat itself felt like a glorified Skinner box to me.
DragonGirl
Member
Xenoblade has one of my favorite combat systems. It can be overwhelming to start out but as you get used to it you should realize it's pretty simple. For the most part you just need to worry about the character you control and use skills appropriately. New concepts are introduced slowly and only the occasional enemy will require you to back off and consider a specific strategy. The deeper aspects like skill links aren't necessary to do well but are fun to use, especially if you really want to tear through anything. Don't let the overall flashiness intimidate you. Also, yes, if you go back and read the tutorials in the menu they'll cover everything in detail. I never actually read them, as the battle system is simple enough to figure out on your own, even if you miss advantageous details.
Teletraan1
Banned
Of all the hyped games on this site this game has pretty terrible combat. I found myself enduring the combat to move the story along. The game would have been better with XSIII combat than the bastardized MMO combat. It seems that turn based combat has fallen out of favor. I dont know when MMO combat was ever in favor but its application here generally stinks.
This. Once I learned the break -> topple shit I was good. Also, BACK SLASH.
I was also pretty confused by the combat in this game. The JRPGs I've played to completion are... Dragon Quest 1 and 2, Final Fantasy 1, all of the Pokemon games, the Paper Mario games, and Chrono Trigger. That's it. Compared to those, Xenoblade's combat in insanity.
But the more you play, the more used to it you become. For me, the same strategy tends to work for most fights until you come across a boss that has some unique condition where you are required to change your strategy slightly.
threelights
Member
Yeah, I always thought the game would be much better if battles played out like the chain attacks, but turn based, so the enemies would also do them after you finished it.
I'd actually say worse than 90% of other JRPGs battle system. Most of them just do turn based/ATB, which are great.
Haeralis The BRave
Banned
Yep, that's one of the reasons that I haven't picked the game up again in months. It made absolutely no sense to me, and the story / voice acting was really bad so I have had zero motivation to continue
The funny thing is, for JRPG standards, it's rather complex.
Askherserenity
Member
I enjoyed the combat. It's really not that confusing. The only problem I had was the amount of different abilities you can have and how most of them combo into each other. Just read up on every characters abilities and make sure you're constantly taking advantage of their buffs and such. Like others have said, it's pretty much MMO combat
It'll click for you eventually. Just read up on the in game tutorials and the roles of each character.
It'll click for you eventually. Just read up on the in game tutorials and the roles of each character.
Or shallow and tedious. Meanwhile enjoyed circle-strifing huge monsters as Shulk and getting in powerful strikes from behind or switching to Dunban and having a Witcher 1 like rhythm game as my special attack. Or going full medic as Sharla. Or full break/topple tactician. All characters are unique and the combat is quite something compared to most JRPGs, or RPGs in general. Final Fantasy is almost all about just confirming choices and hammering one button, TES is some kind of terrible hack'n'slay without any depth or something, Witcher 1 is basically just Dunban's special move without any variety. Fiddling with stats and weighting up skills and setting up teams is a huge part of Xenoblade's combat.
Don't even know where all the hate for Monolith's combat comes from all of a sudden. They always were into hot ass combat, see Baten Kaitos. X looks great so far, too.
Well, opinions.
SuperCambot
Banned
There are some enemies you can:
Step 1: Engage
Step 2: Put down your controller
Step 3: Go make a sandwich
Step 4: Victory!
Step 1: Engage
Step 2: Put down your controller
Step 3: Go make a sandwich
Step 4: Victory!
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
To be fair, this is true in all RPGs.
Combat is okay. Could have been a lot better with mid-battle character switching and customizable AI like FF12. Default AI wasn't optimal. And if it were on PC it would have made more sense to play with keyboard and mouse micromanagement of all party members from a top-down view.
Damn I must be a bad Xenoblade fan. I really like the combat in it. I had the same issue as you OP for the first five or so hours. Then something clicked for me and I really started enjoying it. I mostly just started focusing on that break->topple-> daze thing and getting the chain attack meter filled and that worked for me. Also definitely re-read the tutorials. They were gibberish to me the first time I saw them, but once I got more abilities and went back to the tutorials it made more sense.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You can sort of shape the AI decisions by tweaking a character's loadout of Arts, along with the use of party commands. But yeah, some characters just aren't worth putting in if you're not going to main them.
Seeing as there seems to be alot of people in the know in here I'm playing through game for first time also, love it! However I'm stuck on the Leone Telethia (out of context spoilers):
I use the art that enables me to hit him but after that Its just miss after miss after miss after miss and cant get the Monado charged again.. I'm prob missing something though! I'm level 32 atm, tried switching team up with Ricki ect.. Should I just grind more to level up?
Hypemaster
Member
I found it pretty simple especially since they color coded what most of the status effects do.
Break (pink) --> Topple (green) --> Potential spoilers, not sure if you have a move with this status yet
= profit usually if done in that order. My only problem is the AI can sometimes take a while to follow this execution correctly.
Break (pink) --> Topple (green) --> Potential spoilers, not sure if you have a move with this status yet
Daze (yellow)
Maybe you are too low level or need more agility gems. Also the arts that enable you to hit him has a duration of the effect on him so maybe you just need to use it again...
I thought I might have been too low level also, I might just grind for a bit and come back to the fight.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
It's mainly due to how agility works. If you load up on agility gems, you may be able to negate the level penalty enough to have a chance.
Oh I'm aware, but levelling up is a better solution than stacking yourselves up with agility gems. Unless you want to challenge yourself, I guess.
Edit: Unless you're using Dunban, he's quite the tank with lots of agility.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
The Last Story made upgrading your armor fun since it adds more visual addons to your armor that you can turn on/off and adjust the colours and position of. I had Zael equipped with the outfit modified to look like the one he's wearing on the cover art.
As for Xenoblade's combat I found it to be very enjoyable. It shares things in common with the type of combat usually found in MMO's but I feel that it differentiates itself enough in terms of mechanics and how information and the feedback of your actions are relayed to you.
When I look at combat in a game, I don't just look at the mechanics on their own, I look at how they interact with the other elements of the game like music, visual effects and feedback, audio and vocal cues, things like that. Xenoblade imo excels in terms of providing many enhancements to the battles through non-mechanics. Most importantly I feel that the music and voice work elevate the combat experience to something that just wouldn't be the same if it was without.
One thing I would suggest assuming you get the hang of the combat system is to try using different party setups. First playthrough I mostly used Shulk, Reyn and Sharla until I realized you don't need a healer in your party to succeed in battles.
Head of Vengarl
Banned
Let's see if I can get you up to speed, OP.
Here's a very basic text guide on combat:
Xenoblade Chronicles beginner's guide - Combat
Here are two simple video tutorials that goes over the basics of break/topple/daze and chain attacks:
Wii - Xenoblade Chronicles How to Play Video -- Part 4
Xenoblade battle tutorial
Melia is very different from the other characters, so she takes some extra getting used to. GAF member Zornica made an excellent guide on how to play her in the Xenoblade OT:
Character #5 Tutorial: Melia
Here's a good video guide to compliment Zornica's post:
[Xenoblade] Guide How NOT to Suck with Melia
Speaking of the Xenoblade OT, make sure you check it out! It's not as active as it used to be, but there's still some very helpful people in there who will give you advice:
Xenoblade |OT| Sorry I Kept You Waiting!
Some final tips:
- Agility is the most important stat in the game! It affects your accuracy (crucial when fighting higher level enemies) and your dodge rate.
- Don't ignore gems! Crafting high level gems (especially Agility gems) will make the game so much easier. NeoGAF member Man God made an awesome gem crafting tutorial post in the Xenoblade OT.
- Shulk is amazing! Ignore anyone in here who tells you to not use him. Get the hang of his Monado arts and you are a huge asset to your party:
-- Enchant lets your party members hit Mechon and increases everyone's auto attack damage.
-- Shield blocks an enemy's Talent Art. You can tell if an enemy is using a talent art if you get a vision, and the attack the enemy is using has a roman numeral after its name. Your Monado Shield's level must be equal to or greater than the level of the enemy's Talent Art in order to block it. Talent Arts usually do a ton of damage, so being able to block them is a lifesaver.
-- Speed grants a huge temporary boost to the dodge rate of your targeted party member. If you get a vision of an enemy using an attack with red font color, use Speed on whoever the enemy is targeting and the attack will most likely miss.
-- Purge is explained pretty well when you acquire it. It shuts down enemy aura & spike abilities. For example, certain monsters have a spike ability where you take damage every time you auto attack them (you'll see purple damage numbers appearing over your party members and your HP will start dropping fast). Use Purge to temporarily nullify this.
-- There are two "hidden" Monado arts that you can acquire though sidequests later in the game. One of them (Eater) is kinda lame, but the other (Armor) is probably the most overpowered defensive art in the entire game.
Here's a very basic text guide on combat:
Xenoblade Chronicles beginner's guide - Combat
Here are two simple video tutorials that goes over the basics of break/topple/daze and chain attacks:
Wii - Xenoblade Chronicles How to Play Video -- Part 4
Xenoblade battle tutorial
Melia is very different from the other characters, so she takes some extra getting used to. GAF member Zornica made an excellent guide on how to play her in the Xenoblade OT:
Character #5 Tutorial: Melia
Here's a good video guide to compliment Zornica's post:
[Xenoblade] Guide How NOT to Suck with Melia
Speaking of the Xenoblade OT, make sure you check it out! It's not as active as it used to be, but there's still some very helpful people in there who will give you advice:
Xenoblade |OT| Sorry I Kept You Waiting!
Some final tips:
- Agility is the most important stat in the game! It affects your accuracy (crucial when fighting higher level enemies) and your dodge rate.
- Don't ignore gems! Crafting high level gems (especially Agility gems) will make the game so much easier. NeoGAF member Man God made an awesome gem crafting tutorial post in the Xenoblade OT.
- Shulk is amazing! Ignore anyone in here who tells you to not use him. Get the hang of his Monado arts and you are a huge asset to your party:
-- Enchant lets your party members hit Mechon and increases everyone's auto attack damage.
-- Shield blocks an enemy's Talent Art. You can tell if an enemy is using a talent art if you get a vision, and the attack the enemy is using has a roman numeral after its name. Your Monado Shield's level must be equal to or greater than the level of the enemy's Talent Art in order to block it. Talent Arts usually do a ton of damage, so being able to block them is a lifesaver.
-- Speed grants a huge temporary boost to the dodge rate of your targeted party member. If you get a vision of an enemy using an attack with red font color, use Speed on whoever the enemy is targeting and the attack will most likely miss.
-- Purge is explained pretty well when you acquire it. It shuts down enemy aura & spike abilities. For example, certain monsters have a spike ability where you take damage every time you auto attack them (you'll see purple damage numbers appearing over your party members and your HP will start dropping fast). Use Purge to temporarily nullify this.
-- There are two "hidden" Monado arts that you can acquire though sidequests later in the game. One of them (Eater) is kinda lame, but the other (Armor) is probably the most overpowered defensive art in the entire game.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
this.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Considering where the OP is in the story, are there any spoilers in those tutorials?
Head of Vengarl
Banned
I checked, and didn't see any. Some people may complain that even mentioning the 2 hidden Monado arts is a spoiler, but I don't agree. They have no effect on the story.
it kinda makes me sad that so many people dismiss XBs combat system as bad or boring. I'd bet that those people never actually got the hang of it or just stuck with the main party for most or all of the game.
so my advice to you:
don't
Start switching party members as soon as you can. Try to play all of them and find the one that works the best FOR YOU. Also don't feel like you'd have to stick to the dreaded dd-heal-tank setup. I've beaten most of the game with a dd-dd-dd setup just fine. In fact, a classic dd-heal-tank setup might be the hardest possible combination to play as, because sharla is just that bad.
so my advice to you:
don't
Start switching party members as soon as you can. Try to play all of them and find the one that works the best FOR YOU. Also don't feel like you'd have to stick to the dreaded dd-heal-tank setup. I've beaten most of the game with a dd-dd-dd setup just fine. In fact, a classic dd-heal-tank setup might be the hardest possible combination to play as, because sharla is just that bad.
texhnolyze
Banned
I love the combat, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the minority. One of major flaw in most JRPGs is the dull, boring, and repetitive combat, but Xenoblade made a breakthrough on this department. It's one of the most engaging combat in JRPG, even more engaging than most action games out there. It's the combination of understanding of each skill and the enemy, planning the battle, and adapting to situation in the battle. I love it.
Riposte
Member
The combat system is actually a lot like the combination of two versions of FFXIV's combat systems pre-A Realm Reborn, to the point if I wonder if there was some crossover in design. I liked the concept behind it, if only due to my irrational bias towards combat systems that remind me of improved versions of FFXI (which was true of FFXIV).
Wyndstryker
Member
I had no problems with the combat system. But I have played MMO's like crazy in the past so it's nothing new.
And Melia is the destroyer of worlds once player controlled and you have a clue about what you're doing.
And Melia is the destroyer of worlds once player controlled and you have a clue about what you're doing.
MindGamingMantis
Banned
My first playthrough, I got confused by the chain attack and future sight stuff, but it all becomes second nature by the 10 hour mark.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Im not a MMO player and undesrtanded perfectly after the first slow battle tutorial, explaining how Shulks attacks affect differently depending on where you strike and how you do teamwork with Reyn. Is basically a simpler version that what you are going to do during the whole game.
I never thought it was confussing at all.
The only boss battle I found chaotic and shit (and would have been better if it have never had left the drawing board) was the one where you are surrounded by "lava". People who have beated the game will now which one im talking about.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Awesome and very helpful post...
Also thanks to everybody else replying in this thread...
*thumbs up*
Yep, it addresses the problem of stats vs aesthetics. You still have motivation to upgrade and your armour gets stronger and you unlock more features for it, but if you don't feel like have those visual tweaks you can keep you character looking the same for the whole game with no penalty. Being able to choose the colours is also a bonus.