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Pope Francis on freedom of speech: 'One cannot make fun of faith'

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C

ComputerMKII

Banned
And another one boards the "Freedom of speech, but..." train.

Pope on Charlie Hebdo: There are limits to free expression

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE (AP) — Pope Francis says there are limits to freedom of expression, especially when it insults or ridicules someone's faith.

Francis spoke Thursday about the Paris attacks while en route to the Philippines. He defended freedom of expression as not only a fundamental human right but a duty to speak one's mind for the sake of the common good.

But he said there were limits.

By way of example, he referred to Alberto Gasparri, who organizes papal trips and was standing by his side. He said: "If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch. It's normal. It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."
Click to expand...
http://news.yahoo.com/pope-charlie-hebdo-limits-free-expression-121639260.html
 
H

hobblygobbly

Member
Yes you can. It's just not free from consequence whatever that may be (legal consequences of course, not stuff like murder. Boycotting something is a legal consequence/response).
 
T

The Smoking Bun

Banned
So what if I make fun of your faith? Does it magically become wrong or irrelevant?
Will the church mysteriously vanish because one dude on facebook said "Jesus sucks!"

You can ignore those who mock or deride and instead support your followers
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
About what one would expect of someone in his position, even if the pope in question is a bit unorthodox.

The Smoking Bun said:
So what if I make fun of your faith? Does it magically become wrong or irrelevant?
Will the church mysteriously vanish because one dude on facebook said "Jesus sucks!"

You can ignore those who mock or deride and instead support your followers
Click to expand...

He's saying it's morally wrong to do so. He's a priest.
 
R

Rektash

Member
What he is basically saying is: "Freedom of expression is only ok as long as it doesn't offend my personal sensibilities."

Thats not freedom of expression at all.
 
N

neorej

ERMYGERD!
ComputerMKII said:
And another one boards the "Freedom of speech, but..." train.


http://news.yahoo.com/pope-charlie-hebdo-limits-free-expression-121639260.html
Click to expand...

"If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch.
Click to expand...

Luke 6:29 said:
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if Pope Francis is trolling, taking a piss or is dead serious.
 
C

ComputerMKII

Banned
"It is true that you must not react violently, but although we are good friends if (he) says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch, it's normal.
Click to expand...

Am I wrong if I interpret that as "I'm not saying they asked for it, but they asked for it"?
 
D

Darklord

Banned
So I guess it works both ways and if anyone insults me by pushing their faith on to me or my lifestyle that means I get to punch them as well? Ok then. I can't way to sock someone right in the jaw on the Popes advice.
 
Chuckie

Chuckie

Member
Wow, so the representative of St Peter would punch his mate for cursing against his mom?

#ReligionofPeace
 
P

Platy

Member
How can you NOT make fun of faith ?
it is by DEFINITION believing in invisible unproff thing just for the sake of believing =P

It makes no sense and yet everyone has a faith in something ... be it fate, destiny, fast enrichment, goodness of others or a deity =P
 
J

Joni

Member
There are limits. The limits don't condone violence, the limits shouldn't limit the mocking of one's faith.
If someone mocks your mother or your faith, maybe you should turn the other cheeck.
I'm a bad Catholic now, I seem to have a falling out with the pope.
 
S

SneakySneaks

Member
He's not saying you 'can't' or shouldn't make fun of faith. He's saying don't be a dick, and gives an example that if someone called his mom a cunt to his face, he'd punch them. Seems fair, but I'll still make fun of Catholicism.
 
J

Joni

Member
SneakySneaks said:
He's not saying you 'can't' or shouldn't make fun of faith. He's saying don't be a dick, and gives an example that if someone called his mom a cunt to his face, he'd punch them.
Click to expand...
He is also forgetting one of those things Jesus was kinda big on.
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

—Luke 6:27–31 KJV
 
L

LostCaress

Member
There's a difference between insulting a concept and insulting a specific person (which can already lead to criminal prosecution under defamation laws). Obviously neither warrants violence.
 
R

Raxus

Member
SneakySneaks said:
He's not saying you 'can't' or shouldn't make fun of faith. He's saying don't be a dick, and gives an example that if someone called his mom a cunt to his face, he'd punch them. Seems fair, but I'll still make fun of Catholicism.
Click to expand...

Basically how I interpret it.

It is the basic Freedom of Speech laws. You can say what you want but repercussions are sure to follow if you do not choose your words carefully. Same applies on NeoGAF. Racist/Homophobic 'jokes' won't fly here for the very same reason. Or how yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater is not a proper prank.

Plus how can you not make fun of Catholicism. It is such an easy target.
 
U

UtterlyPerplexed

Member
Yes I can, Francis. I am free to mock the ideas you believe in and all other ideas that command significant followers.

"If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch. It's normal. It's normal.
Click to expand...

Err, no, it's not. You certainly have the right to be pissed off, but you're probably a wee bit unhinged if you immediately strike out at someone just for that. Also, "normal"? Would it not be within the tenets of Christianity to turn the other cheek instead of accepting that a tit-for-tat response is normal?
 
S

StayDead

Member
He has the freedom to say that and I have the freedom to ignore it and wish for religions to be mocked. Maybe this is all some elaborate ruse with him actually agreeing but not wanting to say it.
 
K

KageZero

Member
Well i doubt if anyone who is insulted will go with "well it's free speech so i can say whatever i want". Someone insults based on religion, someone based on race, others again based on some other things.
If you want to follow with this line that you can insult people based on their religion they you should also accept that others can insult you also in any way they see fit. And i'm not religious btw, there should always be a limit and you shouldn't be a dick to other people.
 
T

Tugatrix

Member
349.gif


Now you have lost some credit Francis, I'm disappointed
 
Y

YoungFa

Member
First reading of the OP I understood it that in a way faith itself is not insultable as it is an abstract concept, only it's symbols and traditions can be insulted. Strenthening the concept of faith, putting it above worldly matters.
 
DiscoJer

DiscoJer

Member
Well, from the Bible (Mathew)

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Click to expand...

Or the possible original (Gospel of Thomas)

44. Jesus said, "Whoever blasphemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven, either on earth or in heaven."
Click to expand...

In either case, he's not advocating a punch in the nose...
 
N

nacimento

Member
Francis did some good stuff for a pope, but he still is a conservative catholic. After all, he also said when he was archbishop that legalizing gay marriage was "something from the devil".
 
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