RMS Gigantic
Member
If they do anything further with this game, it will probably be adding and updating content in the current game, like most competetive F2P shooters.
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Steel Diver: Sub Wars (F2P) may have the makings of a Nintendo multiplayer classic
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
If they do anything further with this game, it will probably be adding and updating content in the current game, like most competetive F2P shooters.
"Something I never knew I wanted" -- that's a good way to describe it. Like I said, a FPS that emphasizes slow methodical movement doesn't sound fun on paper, but since everyone moves the same way and no one's at a disadvantage, it creates a tense game of wits where everyone tries to anticipate each other's every move. Sure, that's true of fast-paced shooters, too, but there's something super-satisfying about the deliberative pace of this game, and the sim-lite elements of managing your forward/reverse thrust, looking one way with the periscope while driving another, etc.
Yeah, Nintendo does seem smitten with Steel Diver. The prototype for the first one surfaced on the DS back in the mid-2000s, didn't it? And they stuck with it until it became a launch game for the 3DS. And now here we are with the free-to-play sequel/spinoff, Sub Wars.
I remember in an interview (might've been an Iwata Asks for the first Steel Diver, if there was such a thing), Miyamoto said he'd always wanted to make a simulation game where it was more about mastery of the controls, and he had been crestfallen when Capcom beat him to the punch with Steel Battalion (the mech game with the control deck). The first Steel Diver was all about playing the controls as much as playing the game. I appreciate how they've retained some of this in Sub Wars (I.E. your sub keeps moving forward/backwards until you manually set the lever at a different position, etc).
By "fleshing them out," I don't necessarily mean backstories. I mean, give each crew member a more detailed portrait -- maybe even go the extra mile and give them 3D models -- and then provide a name (rather than Brute A, etc.) and a short bio describing them (I.E. "He loves pizza, and is frequently berated by his shipmates for leaving empty pizza boxes everywhere"). Little details like this can go a long way toward giving the game more personality and charm.
Yeah, the game could use a little more character. That's another thing I think is holding it back from becoming a more popular franchise. Many people will just look at it and go "eh". Adding more character might help attract more people.
One cool thing could be the crew members you assign to the subs could be seen standing around the subs or working on them when you view the sub in the menu. One crew member washing it, another on top of it doing repairs, etc.
the franchise does have a ton of potential in almost every way.
RMS Gigantic
Member
And unlike other games with lots of potential, this game is already great as is!
FreedomFighter
Member
I downloaded this game right after the Nintendo Direct a couple days ago.
However Neitelo makes me want to play that shit right the fuck now. Holy hell.
I'm going to try it tomorrow. Nice write up. I wasn't expecting much from it at all but it should hella interesting.
However Neitelo makes me want to play that shit right the fuck now. Holy hell.
I'm going to try it tomorrow. Nice write up. I wasn't expecting much from it at all but it should hella interesting.
It feels kind of weird I want to play this more right now than many of my full-price games (and with a library as great as the 3DS, for that matter). I just like chugging along in my sub, peeping through the periscope and then taking evasive maneuvers when the enemy notices me and starts returning fire. The 4v4 format is perfect, too -- just long enough to have a good amount of exploration, battling, etc, but without overstaying its welcome. I really wish there was an option to record battles, though. I had one in the Underwater Caves where it was three of us looking for one of them, and the one enemy put up a heck of a fight once we finally -- finally -- found him (that map is huge!).
It's great.
But make sure you complete Training before you dive into multiplayer -- there are a number of mechanics you'll want to experiment with before you're being hunted by human opponents!It's a game that starts out decently entertaining but slowly becomes quite addictive as the layers of depth reveal themselves.
I'm also really digging the unique pacing the game has within matches. Many times it ends up following a sort of three act structure. First act- slow and quiet, everyone looking for signs of life. Second act- shots fired. Even if you're not in the action, you see players begin dying and tides begin turning in one teams favor. Third act- one team has a clear advantage and the game of cat and mouse begins as they hunt down the remaining enemies.
That said, this pacing is often broken (in a good way) after the first act, because you just never know who you're going to find first. You could find a teammate or an enemy. Or you could find three enemies. Or all hell could break loose and every player could be involved in an all out war. Or you could encounter one enemy and never see anyone else for the rest of the match.
But the one thing that seems consistent to me is the shift in tone the first time you spot an enemy. The game goes from peaceful, yet creepy, to tense and action packed, despite the slowness. Or actually, it could be because of the slowness.
That said, this pacing is often broken (in a good way) after the first act, because you just never know who you're going to find first. You could find a teammate or an enemy. Or you could find three enemies. Or all hell could break loose and every player could be involved in an all out war. Or you could encounter one enemy and never see anyone else for the rest of the match.
But the one thing that seems consistent to me is the shift in tone the first time you spot an enemy. The game goes from peaceful, yet creepy, to tense and action packed, despite the slowness. Or actually, it could be because of the slowness.
Hmm, well I tried it. I completed the tutorial, the two basic missions and headed into an online match.
I was destroyed very quickly, everyone else had a much cooler looking submarine, and the match went on like 3 extra minutes while two subs whirled around eachother like turds in a toilet bowl. This game is not for me.
I was destroyed very quickly, everyone else had a much cooler looking submarine, and the match went on like 3 extra minutes while two subs whirled around eachother like turds in a toilet bowl. This game is not for me.
Another favorite variant of mine:
1) Starts out slow, everyone looking for (or hiding from) each other
2) Two people engage in a shootout
3) Then everyone arrives -- seven subs onscreen at once!
Sometimes, a simple skirmish balloons into an all-out war, lol.
That's fine if you feel it's not for you. I'd like to point out a couple things, though:
- You can drop out of spectator mode once you've been sunk, but you'll forfeit any points you would've received if your team went on to win.
- You can switch the camera between the different subs and go into Morse chat mode and cheer your teammates on, or warn them about enemies, or tell them where the enemy is located.
- The "cooler" premium subs really don't have any sort of game-breaking advantage. The free sub you were using can shoot farther than most of the premium subs, and long-distance hits pack like 1.5 times the punch.
I think if you were to try it a couple more times, it might click. Don't be daunted by high-level players with cool-looking subs. Seek out your teammates and stick with them -- there is strength in numbers -- and remember you can avoid detection by staying still (you won't show up on sonar), and you can shake torpedoes by using your masker.
Another favorite variant of mine:
1) Starts out slow, everyone looking for (or hiding from) each other
2) Two people engage in a shootout
3) Then everyone arrives -- seven subs onscreen at once!
Sometimes, a simple skirmish balloons into an all-out war, lol.
It's also fun how some maps have an obvious influence on how the match will play out. In some maps it's really hard to find people. Other maps, everyone is in the same place within the first minute.
Yep. I'd say the two extremes are Underwater Caves (huuuuuuge) and Fish Tank (everyone is right across from each other -- absolute chaos ensues).
You also have interesting set-ups like Hot Springs, where you have one team in the men's bath and one team in the women's bath, and it becomes a matter of who will be first to cross through the hole in the fence and enter the other team's territory.
I haven't played in the hot springs. Sounds like fun. One of my favorites Underwater Base. Everyone always makes their way for the structure in the middle. So I always wait for engagements so I can sweep in and catch enemies by surprise.
There are nine maps overall, I believe. I'm surprised you haven't seen Hot Springs yet. It's one of my favorites, and I guess I've been lucky that it shows up every four or five rounds. You'll recognize it right away since you're the size of a toy in a steamy spring outside a Japanese bathhouse, surrounded by snowy rocks. There's a huge wooden fence dividing the two springs, with multiple holes high and low, and the teams are separated, so you have to invade their territory or wait for them to come to you...
You mentioned Underwater Base. I always see that structure in the middle (looks like a laser cannon!) but I never go to check it out. Can you go through it or something?
Yeah, I'm surprised as well. My games tend to rotate around a few maps. I think there's at least 2 or 3 that I haven't been on yet (or have only been on once).
And I don't know if you can go through it. People just tend to come together in the middle section, so I hold back in whatever pocket I spawned in to see the best way to engage the enemy.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Here's my attempt at laying out the strategy of this game:
Damage heals ONLY if at least one of two conditions are met while the submarine is surfaced (either via a mechanic or by surfacing near a supply ship on the maps that have them), but the inability to mask (turn invisible) while on the surface makes you vulnerable to homing torpedoes. Homing torpedoes are most often outdone by masking (turning invisible, which can only be done underwater), but sonar can locate you even while you're masked if you're not still, which will allow an actively engaged enemy to narrow down where you are. Standing still while masked, especially if you start being still before you begin masking, hides you from sonar but makes you a predictable target for people using unguided torpedoes. To dodge the torpedoes, you can move and/or mask, though moving predictably can lead to your enemy easily leading you as a target, but changing course too many times might get you moving too slowly to avoid already incoming torpedoes because you might lack velocity. For the best speeds when up and down, you minimize the amount of forward-backward thrust you're applying.
Outside of battle, some crew members that you can give your sub will tweak your sub's stats (+1 submerged speed, +1 health, etc., and all stats are out of 10, even as you level up), which can either improve already great traits of your sub, give the jack-of-all-trades starter sub some traits to excel at, or balance out submarines that have glaring weaknesses due to overspecialization. Still other crew members have special traits such as being able to show all of your allies on the map at the same time or slowly repairing your submarine's health for as long as you're surfaced. These will affect how you end up playing the game (I personally use my knowledge of where my allies are to figure out where my enemies probably are, and you'll probably see people who get repaired while surfaced take advantage of this ability even though surfacing makes you vulnerable as stated earlier).
Finally, you get the submarines themselves: the starting submarine is a long-range jack-of-all-trades submarine, which means that it can actually shoot many premium submarines from a range where they would struggle to shoot back, and apparently the long-range torpedoes are more powerful than the shorter-range ones! There's also the typical stats such as health, firepower, and speed, but firepower is instead divided into number of torpedoes, reload time, and range. Short-range subs often exchange having weaker torpedoes for being able to fire more of them before needing to reload all of them. Similar to the breakup in firepower, speed is broken up into rate of turn, submerged speed, and surfaced speed. Interestingly, the premium sub that scores a 9/10 in submerged speed scores only a 3/10 (even worse than the starter submarine) in surface speed. The opposite is also true, with a submarine that scores a 9/10 by default in surface speed only to score a 3/10 in submerged speed (I can only assume that this thing makes for a better boat than it does a submarine).
Aside from all of that, you only get a limited number of homing torpedoes (three per match) unless you destroy an enemy and find a homing torpedo power up in its place. When you destroy an enemy, you will get either a homing torpedo or a repair kit to repair maybe 1/10 of your health. Also keep in mind that you cannot respawn during a match and that friendly fire is entirely possible.
And that's about all that comes to mind for me with the strategy involved in this game, aside from mastering controls (Morse code chat, using your periscope, and remembering that throttles for going forward and backward and surfacing and diving are held in place until you move them, and getting used to how your turning control stick is shared with your surface and dive control stick, while forward and backward are buttons).
The strategy in this game is deeper than a submarine in the shadows of The Trenches.
I would recommend going into a skill-based match. You should end up seeing mostly the same sub that you have.
Damage heals ONLY if at least one of two conditions are met while the submarine is surfaced (either via a mechanic or by surfacing near a supply ship on the maps that have them), but the inability to mask (turn invisible) while on the surface makes you vulnerable to homing torpedoes. Homing torpedoes are most often outdone by masking (turning invisible, which can only be done underwater), but sonar can locate you even while you're masked if you're not still, which will allow an actively engaged enemy to narrow down where you are. Standing still while masked, especially if you start being still before you begin masking, hides you from sonar but makes you a predictable target for people using unguided torpedoes. To dodge the torpedoes, you can move and/or mask, though moving predictably can lead to your enemy easily leading you as a target, but changing course too many times might get you moving too slowly to avoid already incoming torpedoes because you might lack velocity. For the best speeds when up and down, you minimize the amount of forward-backward thrust you're applying.
Outside of battle, some crew members that you can give your sub will tweak your sub's stats (+1 submerged speed, +1 health, etc., and all stats are out of 10, even as you level up), which can either improve already great traits of your sub, give the jack-of-all-trades starter sub some traits to excel at, or balance out submarines that have glaring weaknesses due to overspecialization. Still other crew members have special traits such as being able to show all of your allies on the map at the same time or slowly repairing your submarine's health for as long as you're surfaced. These will affect how you end up playing the game (I personally use my knowledge of where my allies are to figure out where my enemies probably are, and you'll probably see people who get repaired while surfaced take advantage of this ability even though surfacing makes you vulnerable as stated earlier).
Finally, you get the submarines themselves: the starting submarine is a long-range jack-of-all-trades submarine, which means that it can actually shoot many premium submarines from a range where they would struggle to shoot back, and apparently the long-range torpedoes are more powerful than the shorter-range ones! There's also the typical stats such as health, firepower, and speed, but firepower is instead divided into number of torpedoes, reload time, and range. Short-range subs often exchange having weaker torpedoes for being able to fire more of them before needing to reload all of them. Similar to the breakup in firepower, speed is broken up into rate of turn, submerged speed, and surfaced speed. Interestingly, the premium sub that scores a 9/10 in submerged speed scores only a 3/10 (even worse than the starter submarine) in surface speed. The opposite is also true, with a submarine that scores a 9/10 by default in surface speed only to score a 3/10 in submerged speed (I can only assume that this thing makes for a better boat than it does a submarine).
Aside from all of that, you only get a limited number of homing torpedoes (three per match) unless you destroy an enemy and find a homing torpedo power up in its place. When you destroy an enemy, you will get either a homing torpedo or a repair kit to repair maybe 1/10 of your health. Also keep in mind that you cannot respawn during a match and that friendly fire is entirely possible.
And that's about all that comes to mind for me with the strategy involved in this game, aside from mastering controls (Morse code chat, using your periscope, and remembering that throttles for going forward and backward and surfacing and diving are held in place until you move them, and getting used to how your turning control stick is shared with your surface and dive control stick, while forward and backward are buttons).
The strategy in this game is deeper than a submarine in the shadows of The Trenches.
I would recommend going into a skill-based match. You should end up seeing mostly the same sub that you have.
I bet you hate chess too.
demonturkey
Member
Best match I've had yet. In the Caverns level, which has become my favourite.
There was a crew member right next to where I spawned and because my teammates and I all went for it straight away we assembled into a group very quickly. We moved towards the enemy territory, where they were still scattered about quite a bit, and because of this we were able to pick three of them off one at a time with GREAT JUSTICE.
The last enemy sub was way out on its own in a different area grid. I was charging out in front, and had to slam on my breaks to stop myself crashing into the boundary wall. I had been pinging my radar the whole time, but there was nothing. Then one of my teammates said "HIDING," which he obviously was doing and doing it very well, and this made the latter part of the game amazing fun. I know if you remain still and you Mask yourself you disappear from the radar but - unless there's a Crew Member that increases your Masking time - I couldn't understand how he wasn't appearing AT ALL on my radar and yet he was definitely on the same grid. Maybe he was just lurking outside of my radar, as when I investigated one of the corners of it I saw him appear very briefly. I quickly messaged "HERE" to my teammates and within second we were ontop of him and all hell broke loose.
Of course with 4/1 odds we won easily, but how the match turned into a deadly game of hide&seek is the best moment I've had with Sub Wars so far. Loved it.
There was a crew member right next to where I spawned and because my teammates and I all went for it straight away we assembled into a group very quickly. We moved towards the enemy territory, where they were still scattered about quite a bit, and because of this we were able to pick three of them off one at a time with GREAT JUSTICE.
The last enemy sub was way out on its own in a different area grid. I was charging out in front, and had to slam on my breaks to stop myself crashing into the boundary wall. I had been pinging my radar the whole time, but there was nothing. Then one of my teammates said "HIDING," which he obviously was doing and doing it very well, and this made the latter part of the game amazing fun. I know if you remain still and you Mask yourself you disappear from the radar but - unless there's a Crew Member that increases your Masking time - I couldn't understand how he wasn't appearing AT ALL on my radar and yet he was definitely on the same grid. Maybe he was just lurking outside of my radar, as when I investigated one of the corners of it I saw him appear very briefly. I quickly messaged "HERE" to my teammates and within second we were ontop of him and all hell broke loose.
Of course with 4/1 odds we won easily, but how the match turned into a deadly game of hide&seek is the best moment I've had with Sub Wars so far. Loved it.
March of the Crabs
Member
This game is so surprisingly good I can't put it down. I just LOVE the slow, methodical pace it has. Makes it much more strategic and tense. I hope to god no exploits or anything ever surface because the online community for this is great and really fun so far.
^Couldn't agree more.
It's such a welcome release, especially after all the disappointing things I read about how utterly terrible Tank! Tank! Tank! was on Wii U.
Well, I'm certainly surprised by this game. Firstly, the very idea of a Nintendo free to play game is surprising but I like it. I'd really want to see more of this and I prefer this f2p model than the micronsactions hell many other f2p games is. So, the game is all about strategy. You can make your sub better and stronger but without teamwork you can't win. It's slow paced and most of the times it's really hard to evade a battle if an enemy finds you. I like that though.
Excellent war story.
Don't underestimate an outnumbered opponent, though. I might've imagined it, but I'm fairly certain I was in a match where one person took down three opponents surrounding him. (I think I was first to go down on my team, then my team took down three people on the other team, and then their sole survivor wasted the rest of my team.) I know in another match, I myself took down two subs at once when it was just me and them. It was dumb luck, though, since I shot one while accidentally backing up into another when the one behind me was weak, lol.Yeah, it's not the Mona Lisa x Sistine Chapel x Avatar (a nod to the title change in my other thread), but I think it's fair to say it's like Quake Live x Descent x Steel Diver 1. And shooting slow-motion torpedoes kind of feels like throwing javelins, oddly enough. Very satisfying leading with your shots and still hitting your target, especially if you do it with a long-range sub from a mile away and get the last hit (at which point everyone can practically hear Chariots of Fire as you watch it on the slow-mo kill-cam).
A good way to evade battle is to use your masker and then move (or not move) in unexpected ways. I know when I see an enemy turn invisible with the masker, I tend to fire in front of where I last saw them, under the assumption that they will continue moving forward. I think many people think the same way, so a good way to move after using the masker might be to stop, and then dive or rise. Then while your opponent is wheeling around looking for you to reappear, you can ambush them from above or below. A savvy opponent will ping his sonar to see you moving while you're masked, but I have to imagine that if you're diving/rising, the sonar won't reflect this since it only reflects your horizontal movement.
So I got the premium version and have been experimenting with a few new subs, and I can reconfirm what others have been saying in this thread. The subs are balanced and the premium version players do not have a significant advantage over the free players. And often they don't have any advantage. Many premium subs actually have pretty bad mobility from the ones I've seen, and many have short range missiles.
I have been using premium subs and I'm not any better or worse than I was before. I simply have more options to customize my sub to my play-style. For instance, I enjoy having a high turning speed. But I had to give up surface and dive speed to get it.
And the single player missions are fun. Some give me a Star Fox vibe.
If this is how Nintendo free-to-play is going to work in the coming years, I'm ok with it (though a few more free single players missions would have been appreciated).
I have been using premium subs and I'm not any better or worse than I was before. I simply have more options to customize my sub to my play-style. For instance, I enjoy having a high turning speed. But I had to give up surface and dive speed to get it.
And the single player missions are fun. Some give me a Star Fox vibe.
If this is how Nintendo free-to-play is going to work in the coming years, I'm ok with it (though a few more free single players missions would have been appreciated).
This game is really cool. Love the concept of a "contemplative" FPS, as Iwata described it. I feel like the game's only weaknesses are related to presentation, which I think have the potential to be much more atmospheric. Like a video game version of Das Boot. I'm imagining a version on the Wii U with the same kind of visual style as Zombi U.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It's good. Really fucking good. Like, the concept of submarines bores me to tears, but this is really fun.
Do you sail with your team or do you go solo? In my experience, most teammates will follow you if you sail close to them.
RMS Gigantic
Member
The game servers are undergoing maintenance. Let's see afterwards if said maintenance stops the error codes?
I think the servers were getting slammed by unexpected levels of traffic. I'm all for improving the servers, but at the same time I'm a bit bummed since I was just about to log on and play. :-x
Sounds like numerous people in the OT were simply disconnected mid-match. Hopefully it doesn't count against them in their combat record. Not exactly their fault!
RMS Gigantic
Member
No, mid-match errors do not count as disconnects.
Servers are back and I've been doing well. I had this fellow following me in hot pursuit, but I activated the masker and simply stayed still. He pulled right alongside my invisible sub and wheeled about looking for me. I then materialized next to him and unleashed my payload right into his side. Wish this game had the face cam from Star Fox 64 3D, so I could've seen his reaction. (Hey, that'd be something cool for a WiiU version!)
Also, the best is when you're following someone who's following someone else, and they're so obsessed with shooting down their target that they don't notice your potshots whizzing past them, lol.
(Hey, that'd be something cool for a WiiU version!)Also, the best is when you're following someone who's following someone else, and they're so obsessed with shooting down their target that they don't notice your potshots whizzing past them, lol.
Hours Left
Member
What do the crew members do, and what do they look like?
One thing I thought was a big problem with the first game was it completely lacked any sort of character or identity, which is a shocking omission for a Nintendo game.
One thing I thought was a big problem with the first game was it completely lacked any sort of character or identity, which is a shocking omission for a Nintendo game.
There are lots of crew members. They have little portraits of their faces. Some look very eccentric! Basically, each sub can carry a certain number of crew, from as few as two to as many as five. They add passive bonuses to your subs -- I.E. +1 health, -1 sec reloading time, etc. Some allow you to see allies; others repair your sub when you're at the surface. There are many uses for crew. They appear at random in single-player and multplayer; you ping your sonar and when you see a purple dot, that's a crew member waiting to be rescued. They appear in little rafts floating on the surface.
RomanceDawn
Member
I skimmed through less than 5 comments and I'm downloading the free version as I type. I'm putting my faith in you guys.
The Xtortionist
Member
Is there a party system for matchmaking?
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Still getting dropped after random matches. Which sucks because it takes away my win streak I believe.
Party system? As in the ability to play with friends online? Unfortunately, no. The options are "Worldwide" and "Same Region," and from there, "Random Battle" and "Matched-Skills Battle."
Oh, I thought the win streak refers to sinking multiple subs in a single match. You might be right, though.
Dang. Well it looks like they're working on it.
Hope it's fixed soon so it doesn't turn people off the game.
I got a disconnect on my record after getting disconnected mid-match due to the maintenance.