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Scott Rohde on Amy Hennig's Departure [Up: Naughty Dog responds]
- Thread starter Jonboy
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oh ok then
Probably not, but from this thread it is clear that it makes no difference to those that want to think there was some grand melodrama going on behind he scenes. Sometimes conspiracy is too fun to accept a boring alternative.
boredandlazy
Member
You'd think so. But people have little things called agendas...
dragonbane
Member
Probably no grand melodrama, but it seems pretty apparent it wasn't in mutual agreement either. If so they would have mentioned it, like Sony's statement about Tretton.
ZackieChan
Member
Nothing. Except games. As it should be.
Nightengale
Member
The most damning part of IGN's report wasn't the part of Amy being forced out, but how it painted Neil and Bruce as the masterminds.
It was easy to gather that it was a split on bad terms due to lack of proper nods/goodbye associated with someone like her leaving, but citing names without a very clear picture of the whole situation is a very dangerous reporting.
Even if true, it doesn't mean both of them are at fault because ultimately, the copresidents sided with them. If false, then that means your report has caused ton of false accusations being thrown at them.
I don't like the way the story was reported, but IGN's source was obviously not full of shit, they knew Amy was out, and seemingly not of her own volition. If she was forced out by any specific person/s would almost certainly be subjective, it's quite possible whoever spoke to IGN is fully aware of the situation, and in their opinion, Neil and Bruce were responsible, and from other people's perspective, they had nothing to do with it.
Exactly. This was a bullshit disgraceful report. But Naughty Dog and Sony are at fault too. They should have reacted instantly, the moment two of their employees were implicated in the original report.
boredandlazy
Member
They took about a day? That's not exactly slow. You can make things a lot worse by putting out a hasty, badly written reply.
"Smoke & Fire + changing" because one or two employees left the studio?
Protip: So every game studio in the world is "changing" and has "smoke & fire", every day, every month, in the last 15 years?
Thanks for the info
Protip #2: Employees are leaving & joining all the time.
(This is a story here, just because Amy was a big name in the biz)
In the current times it was an eternity. Bullshit reports like this one propagate like fire. It's the nature of the beast. One outlet reports some controversial scoop, everyone else stampedes trying to get some of the sweet hits pie. Sony and Naughty Dog PR utterly failed.
Only to a delusional person. There might've been disagreements, but that doesn't automatically mean she was forced out. The disagreements might've just been about what they'll do next with Uncharted or some new IP and if she and some higher-ups didn't meet eye to eye on what the future would hold, she might've decided herself to leave. Adults CAN have perfectly non-drama-queen arguments and end up things on good terms even if they end up agreeing to disagree. For all we know, maybe Hennig has been planning this for a long time and maybe her part of Uncharted 4's development has just mostly ended and she felt that she needed to find something else if Naughty Dog isn't the place where she sees she can do what she wants to do. Hennig already left one workplace where she had done incredible work on a franchise, there's no reason to believe there's anything majorly different behind this and that time's resignations.
You're looking too much into some subliminal message that isn't there, letting the early negative rumors cloud your judgment. Maybe there was drama, maybe there wasn't, though Naughty Dog doesn't seem like the kind of workplace where you have some super-heated arguments that end with one person quitting at that spot & storming out.
SaucyJack
Member
Couple of comments as some posters seem to lack perspective.
When senior people leave employment it is frequently very sudden as notice periods are not enforced and employee goes on "garden leave" almost immediately.
When creative people leave employment it is often "dramatic". There are any number of reasons a creative person could suddenly fall out with their employer.
Amy is a senior creative person.
We aren't going to get any more than rumour on speculation added to this as Amy and ND will value their reputations too much to spill the details.
When senior people leave employment it is frequently very sudden as notice periods are not enforced and employee goes on "garden leave" almost immediately.
When creative people leave employment it is often "dramatic". There are any number of reasons a creative person could suddenly fall out with their employer.
Amy is a senior creative person.
We aren't going to get any more than rumour on speculation added to this as Amy and ND will value their reputations too much to spill the details.
BumblebeeCody
Member
And I would blame those instantly believe what they read and consider it fact when shitty websites like Kotaku and IGN spread this all the time.
I'm off on a tangent, but people please, give it a few days for the official statement to come out.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
The third one shits on one in every single possible way so yes your implications (which you make and pretend you don't) don't really mean much. The only reason the 3rd is such a disappointment compared to the 1-2 jump is that the jump from 2 to 3 was not that big, while 1 to 2 was massive, since 1 is nowhere near the same caliber as its two sequels.
GoofsterStud
Member
So what is a the possibility that she was holding out for more money and it backfired?
Between 0 and 100%.
Triggerhappytel
Member
He won't agree to the term 'pushed out', but doesn't actually deny it either? And Naughty Dog say they had to comment to protect the interest of Druckmann and Straley, and also do not deny it or say under what terms Hennig left? This is very fishy indeed. I wonder what's going on over there.
Well, I think we can all agree that Hennig and ND weren't seeing eye to eye on something / some things, and that either both parties agreed to part ways, or that ND just decided to to straight out fire her. Now, whether or not she was fired, I have no clue, but I'd like to think that they parted amicably.
Kind of ballsy of IGN to claim that Druckmann and Stratley were the reason behind her depature, though. They need to know for sure.
Kind of ballsy of IGN to claim that Druckmann and Stratley were the reason behind her depature, though. They need to know for sure.
When an employee leaves a company (voluntary or involuntary), exit interviews usually have agreements like non-compete and/or non-disclosure. Some of these agreements may be so broad and too vague, making it difficult to comment on certain scenarios.
Amy can freely shoot down that 4chan rumour since it was presented as her view on something (dlc she did not work on). When rumours involve another employee and her departure, any comment can be risky due to whatever agreement that was signed. It can be risky to even deny something silly like she left because Druckmann was being disruptive by making giant forts out of TLoU awards. An exit agreement can also require a company to act appropriately. This may explain why Balestra and Wells took a couple of days to respond; they may have had to consult with ND lawyers before issuing a statement.
The point here is that lawyers and signed agreements can complicate things. But just because it's not simple, it doesn't mean there was a ton of internal studio drama.
On IGN's Mitch Dyer doing his job by reporting rumours; there's a huge difference between a source leaking something like the number of multiplayer maps and a source leaking the reason why another employee left the studio.
Information related to a vetted source leaking product details has value. Product details can be planned ideas or actual fact. The information here can be verified. But a source leaking termination details about another employee should be received as opinion and office gossip. In a large team environment, when a senior employee leaves, only a small number people know the factual details of the situation. In this case, it would be Amy and whoever else in charge of her employment. This is where office rumours and gossip originate. It happens in every industry. Employees out of the loop start to smear circumstantial events into direct evidence. It's nonsense.
If this was a Team Bondi situation where there was a high turnover rate or mass exodus, where the sources were actual employees who were directly affected, name dropping Brendan McNamara made sense. However, in this situation, I highly doubt an industry veteran like Amy Hennig was the source of the leak of her own termination. Mitch Dyer screwed up.
Amy can freely shoot down that 4chan rumour since it was presented as her view on something (dlc she did not work on). When rumours involve another employee and her departure, any comment can be risky due to whatever agreement that was signed. It can be risky to even deny something silly like she left because Druckmann was being disruptive by making giant forts out of TLoU awards. An exit agreement can also require a company to act appropriately. This may explain why Balestra and Wells took a couple of days to respond; they may have had to consult with ND lawyers before issuing a statement.
The point here is that lawyers and signed agreements can complicate things. But just because it's not simple, it doesn't mean there was a ton of internal studio drama.
On IGN's Mitch Dyer doing his job by reporting rumours; there's a huge difference between a source leaking something like the number of multiplayer maps and a source leaking the reason why another employee left the studio.
Information related to a vetted source leaking product details has value. Product details can be planned ideas or actual fact. The information here can be verified. But a source leaking termination details about another employee should be received as opinion and office gossip. In a large team environment, when a senior employee leaves, only a small number people know the factual details of the situation. In this case, it would be Amy and whoever else in charge of her employment. This is where office rumours and gossip originate. It happens in every industry. Employees out of the loop start to smear circumstantial events into direct evidence. It's nonsense.
If this was a Team Bondi situation where there was a high turnover rate or mass exodus, where the sources were actual employees who were directly affected, name dropping Brendan McNamara made sense. However, in this situation, I highly doubt an industry veteran like Amy Hennig was the source of the leak of her own termination. Mitch Dyer screwed up.
We'll see. I am not looking for a fight.
Uncharted on PS4 is gonna look good and play well fo' sure.
Golden Abyss on VITA did too.
But Mama' Uncharted leaving the company while the game is in production is not good news.
At best it shows ND is willing to make harsh decisions in order for the game to end up great.
At worst, ND is now to "important" for Sony to keep a girl steering the series to possible uncharted territories. I believe she is in a very losing position leaving ND. uncharted 3 got some deserved praises and critics, and she had everything to win by helping make Uncharted on PS4 an universally acclaimed entry.
Same for the guy who moved from Epic. ND is very hot right now. and leaving without a shipped game on his resume is not what's best for him whatever happened during his month there.
SaucyJack
Member
All of this is spot on. Well said.
same, nice post (quoted yours because its shorter)
Very few high profile women in games -> it's a plus to have one.
Corinne Yu is a very sellable figure -> ND has its girl mascot and tho a it's a plus, I have yet to see a duo of high profiles women on a AAA game.
Other creative directors have a lot to win by steering Uncharted on PS4 to new heights of sells/approvals -> competition
Is there another creative director who is a woman at ND? -> competition against men only.
I still haven't met a woman who plays on fair ground when she's in a directing responsibility.
Maybe ND is so special it's not like 99% of other businesses?
it's not even about the rumoured reasons. It's 99% about her leaving while she's a creative director on the most recognizable PS4 system seller. which begs for looking for reasons why she would go/ bet let go...
Uncharted is the series that sells. So "someone" having had great success with a new IP would want to try and replicate his success on series with far more selling potential.
->$$$ is not something people ignore. Fame is also great.
The IGN guy just did what the police does. He looked for those who had anything to gain from it. and when birdy told him just that, he could not not publish it. He may laso have invented the rumor himself...it's not like game journalism is irreproachable.
Just because a woman in a high position is let go / quit/ is fired doesn't mean a company is being unfair to women. That's kind of a stretch.
I mean they hired her in the first place and she was on the job for quite some time.
this is not exactly what I'm saying.
I DON'T KNOW.
But ND is in a position where it was not when PS3 launched.
Maybe change is necessary.
Maybe some people want all the pie to themselves.
Maybe both.
Maybe neither and she did not have it in her to help make the game the success it needs to be.
It simply is very late in the process to switch gears. and she's obvioulsy not the driving force behind her departure.
You're reading way too much into something that isn't there. They say the two had absolutely nothing to do with Hennig leaving. That's as clear cut as can be. ND said that those two's reputation had been wrongly tarnished and wanted to make it clear that they had nothing to do with Hennig's departure. And companies very rarely if ever comment on someone being let go, as that would put them in the risk of being sued if that statement in any way harms the employees future prospects, even if it isn't something overly negative.
Maybe there were disagreements about the future direction of Uncharted or a new IP, but it doesn't need to involve any drama. Hennig nor any other of the heads of Naughty Dog don't really seem like the kind of people to throw hissy fits that could lead to a person leaving. Maybe it's Hennig herself who doesn't want to comment on why she left, she seems like a very private person who doesn't really want to draw too much attention to herself. I don't really remember her making any grand statements after she left Crystal Dynamics for Naughty Dog.
If her job as the writer of the game is pretty much complete (which it could be since the game has been in development since Uncharted 3's release and if the game is going to have a ~late 2014-early 2015 release), then she doesn't necessarily have that big of a role in the game's development anymore, which is possibly why she might've chosen this point to leave (if she chose it and wasn't kicked out ASAP).
What a load of circular reasoning bullshit.
There actually are quite a few high profile women in the industry, it's just that the media only really seems to focus on whoever pitches games publicly.
Just the year Uncharted (directed by Amy Hennig) came out we saw women in very senior positions in lots of high profile games, Assassin's Creed (produced by Jade Raymond), BioShock (produced by Melissa Miller), and Portal (project lead was Kim Swift).
No, no one is going to buy Uncharted 4 because Corinne Yu worked on it, she was pivotal in the engine creation of Halo 4, which was by orders of magnitude the most impressive game to run on the 360, she's obviously a very valuable talent.
That doesn't have anything to do with her being a woman though. Assuming she was creative director on Uncharted 4, and we have no reason to think she wasn't, she's been at the helm for two years, which is the time it took to make UC2. If the results were weak, she should be taken off the project if more talented directors are available to take her place.
No, since Jason Rubin's exit, all games until TLoU were directed by Amy, since Rubin there have also been two additional directors, both men.
I'm not sure what this means, but it might be really offensive if it's what I suspect.
I don't think the rest of the industry give a shit if a director is male or female. Maybe it's valuable to have a very attractive woman in a senior role so she looks good on camera in interviews, but no offense to Amy Hennig, she's not a model, she obviously got her position because she's talented, in fact, she got her first directing role on Soul Reaver, which shipped in 1999, way before women in the industry became a hot topic.
reptilescorpio
Member
Corinne Yu is a saint and is going to make that PS4 purr like a damn baby. Don't bring her into this!
(also I thought she was ICE since she was on Twitter saying the Dogs were partying but her team aren't part of that)
(also I thought she was ICE since she was on Twitter saying the Dogs were partying but her team aren't part of that)
yes, but she was cited as co-directing uncharted PS4, which is much more than writting it. Maybe Uncharted is going into a hiatus and her talent are not aligned with their other IPs but leaving before the game ships is bizarre for someone who has gained so much from this series.
humm...I just make comments on the topic. I'm not stirring shit.
it's offensive to men, indeed.
Then I don't understand what it meant, sorry.
You seem to think having a woman on a project is some sort of token gesture, and I really don't see why. I seriously doubt ND care if their directors are men or women, only how talented they are.
According to Wikipedia: "In addition, Naughty Dog is home to the ICE Team, one of Sony's World Wide Studios central technology groups."
So we're all correct (except for the guy that said she wasn't part of the ICE team).
She's on the UC4 team, not ICE, according to the credits for Left Behind.
Oh, so we want them to dish on information that would lead to a lawsuit? Can't imagine why they wouldn't tell us all the dirty details of a personnel action.
This needs to be repeated frequently. The game industry is in the business of making creative products. Gender is irrelevant.
"Normally, we wouldnt respond to rumors and speculation on matters that are internal to Naughty Dog, but because the personal reputation of two of our employees is being damaged we needed to set the record straight."
Then says nothing.
Yes, that will stop speculations. 10/10 in communication theory.
Then says nothing.
Yes, that will stop speculations. 10/10 in communication theory.
I was wrong then. Is there a separate credit for the ICE team?
There is.
Sephiroth503
Member
Did you only read that line...because they unequivocally state that two of their employees which the IGN article implicated originally were not involved in her departure. That is setting a record straight. The other information - Amy has left ND - is also correct.
reptilescorpio
Member
Oh sweet, I must have misunderstood her tweets (damn short messaging system!).
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Lol after reading this thread I've had to adjust my baseline estimate for average GAFfer reading comprehension. It's not the majority of GAF that has issues with understanding the strings of words that we call sentences, but a fair few really bring the aggregate comprehension level way down.
This is some shameful shit, what with the baseless character defamation, name calling, and utterly nonsensical attempts to make this a gender issue. Holy Hell, guys. This might just be the most embarrassing carnival of stupid yet.
IIRC Hennig left Crystal Dynamics before Legacy of Kain: Defiance was released as well, and she was the sole director of that project. It's not necessarily too big of a problem is Hennig was mostly handling the writing and helping with some directorial duties. If the writing is done and the project is well underway, then it doesn't have to cause too many problems. I mean, a lot of people were abandoning ship at the time of Uncharted 1's development because PS3 was causing so much trouble for them and people just couldn't take it, yet that turned out pretty decent (not even near to the greatness of 2 & 3, but not a bad game by any means).
They say that the two accused parties have nothing to do with any of this. That's pretty clear cut dismissal of the accusations of IGN that those two actively pushed Hennig to be fired. They can't say much more because of likely NDAs that protect both Hennig and Naughty Dog.
This reminds me of the Omnirumour.
For several years, there were persistent murmurings that there had been some large find of long-missing Doctor Who episodes; all linked to rumours of a search in Africa. Several people who *should* be in the know about it did deny such a find - but they did it in an awfully mealy-mouthed way that left key loopholes. Come October last year, it turned out there was *some* truth to the rumours after all, just not at the scale some claimed.
That's what I'm seeing here. If it was a *completely* natural break, fair enough - but there's *much* more direct ways to say that than the terminology used here. Heck, one of the statements directly implies that: "Bruce Straley and Neil Druckmann were NOT involved in what transpired.". They may absolutely be in the clear, but that tells me that something transpired, and that's not a word you use to describe leaving calmly. I'm sure that there's something we're not being told, but that doesn't necessarily mean that therefore Naughty Dog are in the wrong.
I don't think we know the full story, but that doesn't mean that the first story we find that fits the facts is necessarily the right one.
For several years, there were persistent murmurings that there had been some large find of long-missing Doctor Who episodes; all linked to rumours of a search in Africa. Several people who *should* be in the know about it did deny such a find - but they did it in an awfully mealy-mouthed way that left key loopholes. Come October last year, it turned out there was *some* truth to the rumours after all, just not at the scale some claimed.
That's what I'm seeing here. If it was a *completely* natural break, fair enough - but there's *much* more direct ways to say that than the terminology used here. Heck, one of the statements directly implies that: "Bruce Straley and Neil Druckmann were NOT involved in what transpired.". They may absolutely be in the clear, but that tells me that something transpired, and that's not a word you use to describe leaving calmly. I'm sure that there's something we're not being told, but that doesn't necessarily mean that therefore Naughty Dog are in the wrong.
I don't think we know the full story, but that doesn't mean that the first story we find that fits the facts is necessarily the right one.
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