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French VG market figures (2013)

R

Raist

Banned
Just found a decent report from SELL from last month. Don't think it was posted so here goes. There's quite a few interesting hard data.

http://www.sell.fr/medias/images/uploads/resources/essentiel-jeu-video-2014-ENG.pdf

Total market estimated at slightly over €2.7bln (don't believe his lies)

First 5 weeks of sales:
WiiU+PS4+XB1: 468k
Wii+PS3+360 was 367k

Console YoY SW sales -0.03%. Mobile +26.6%

2,586k consoles sold in 2013:
819k Wii+360+PS3
542k WiiU+XB1+PS4
154k DS+PSP
1,071k 3DS+Vita

Total Gen7+8 install base: 15,113k Home consoles, 17,065 Handhelds

2013 Top 10 SW sales (Units):
[PS3] GTAV (1,359k)
[PS3] FIFA14 (620k)
[360] GTAV (586k)
[PS3] CoD:Ghosts (539k)
[WII] Just Dance 2014 (399k)
[3DS] Luigi's Mansion 2 (344k)
[3DS] AC:NL (330k)
[3DS] Pokemon Y (278k)
[3DS] Pokemon X (261k)
[3DS] MK7 (243k) - reminder, this launched in December 2011

2013 Top 10 SW sales (Value, in million euros):
[PS3] GTAV (78.7)
[PS3] FIFA14 (36.6)
[360] GTAV (34.2)
[PS3] CoD:Ghosts (30.6)
[PS3] The Last of Us (14.7)
[3DS] Luigi's Mansion 2 (14.1)
[WII] Just Dance 2014 (14)
[3DS] AC:NL (12.5)
[360] CoD:Ghosts (12.4)
[PS3] CoD:BO2 (12)

Some demographics:
Half of the population plays games (20% in 1999)
Average age: 38 (21 in 1999)
49% of gamers are female (10% in 1999).
 
theprodigy said:
damn, 3DS got 5 titles in the top 10
Then again isn't France one of the few areas where the 3DS actually went up YoY?
Click to expand...

Dunno. It's a success in France for sure anyway. I mean there are more handhelds sold than home consoles, by quite a margin.
 
Raist said:
Average age: 38 (21 in 1999)
Click to expand...

38 as in THIRTY EIGHT ? Is it for the console/PC crowd, or everybody included ?
It would make me think the youngsters aren't playing anymore, or that the older adults play a lot more than I thought. I consider myself "too old for this shit" already, and I'm slightly below that average...
 
Alx said:
38 as in THIRTY EIGHT ? Is it for the console/PC crowd, or everybody included ?
It would make me think the youngsters aren't playing anymore, or that the older adults play a lot more than I though. I consider myself "too old for this shit" already, and I'm slightly below that average...
Click to expand...

No, 38 as in fifteen and a half. :P

Dunno man, I'm surprised as well. Would have expected early thirties but no more.
But yes, I assume it's for the whole population, as soon as they play games in one way or another.
 
Alx said:
38 as in THIRTY EIGHT ? Is it for the console/PC crowd, or everybody included ?
It would make me think the youngsters aren't playing anymore, or that the older adults play a lot more than I thought. I consider myself "too old for this shit" already, and I'm slightly below that average...
Click to expand...

As in 38.
It's the younger generation that aren't playing more than a mass of 30 something playing discovering gaming.
The gaming population really is the younger of before growing up and not getting replaced.
This is not good.

Let it not be said I can't recognize when I'm wrong.
I'm full of shit :
90% of 6-10yo play games.
 
Mael said:
Actually Nintendo had a report from the hayday of the DS saying something that more than 50% of their customers were women.
So...yeah.
Click to expand...

Well i can believe it for the DS and Nintendo, but not for Sony and MS consoles.
So it can't add up to 49% for the whole thing without taking in account mobile gaming and facebook scams.
 
Mael said:
It's the younger generation that aren't playing more than a mass of 30 something playing discovering gaming.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why one would make that assumption. The demographics are for the market as a whole, and there are more avenues for gaming that either weren't previously available or weren't previously included in these metrics - and they tend to skew both older and female/balanced.

The statistics also show the "gaming population" growing from 20% to 50% of the total population.

It's relatively safe to assume that at least part of the changes in demographics are due to new customers. Unless one also takes that the 90:10 male:female ratio changing to essentially 1:1 is due to some mass French gender reorientation craze.
 
And holy misogynistic Jesus,
some people here!

If the women market just jumpd ship to mobile then I guess we know were the market Nintendo got with the Wii/DS vanished.
It also means the games the industry are releasing are absolute shite.
 
shinra-bansho said:
I'm not sure why one would make that assumption. The demographics are for the market as a whole, and there are more avenues for gaming that either weren't previously available or weren't previously included in these metrics - and they tend to skew both older and female.

The statistics also show the "gaming population" growing from 20% to 50% of the total population.

It's relatively safe to assume that at least part of the changes in demographics are due to new customers. Unless one also takes that the 90:10 male:female ratio changing to essentially 1:1 is due to some mass French gender reorientation craze.
Click to expand...

The genderless dystopia is real?!?!?
/s
 
foxbeldin said:
Well i can believe it for the DS and Nintendo, but not for Sony and MS consoles.
So it can't add up to 49% for the whole thing without taking in account mobile gaming and facebook scams.
Click to expand...
Where did you get the idea that women don't play traditional games?
Women don't play Wow or something too?
shinra-bansho said:
I'm not sure why one would make that assumption. The demographics are for the market as a whole, and there are more avenues for gaming that either weren't previously available or weren't previously included in these metrics - and they tend to skew both older and female/balanced.

The statistics also show the "gaming population" growing from 20% to 50% of the total population.

It's relatively safe to assume that at least part of the changes in demographics are due to new customers. Unless one also takes that the 90:10 male:female ratio changing to essentially 1:1 is due to some mass French gender reorientation craze.
Click to expand...

There's nothing in the marketing of games that would push a 30 something to play a game if they didn't before.
Seriously if you don't play games in your 30s, nothing the industry push would entice you to play.
The more social games are actually targeting them since after all Google and Apple are doing the marketing for these apps.
And on top of that there's barely any marketing for the younger generation and looking at the toys sections, the gaming section isn't getting any bigger.
 
There's that extra bit on demography:

RucEJDH.png


So yeah, it's quite evenly distributed by age range.

foxbeldin said:
As a french, i don't believe it.

edit : oooh candy crush counts? Nevermind then.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't think the SELL would go for "unless you're playing CoD online 20h+ a week, you're not a gamer" :p
 
Mael said:
Where did you get the idea that women don't play traditional games?
Women don't play Wow or something too?
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, a lot of women play traditional games like wow too, but there's no way it's in a 1:1 proportion. Sorry for just observing it on a daily basis. It's not sexism, it's just how it is.

I definetely agree they're way more than the 10% of 1999 though.
 
foxbeldin said:
Don't get me wrong, a lot of women play traditional games like wow too, but there's no way it's in a 1:1 proportion. Sorry for just observing it on a daily basis. It's not sexism, it's just how it is.

I definetely agree they're way more than the 10% of 1999 though.
Click to expand...

How do you know the proportion ? Because unless you manage a micromania or something it's looking like bias more than anything.
Again >30% would certainly not be unexpected for the Sony/MSFT systems (as previously established Nintendo even boasted about a >50% ratio on DS some years ago).
 
Mael said:
Where did you get the idea that women don't play traditional games?
Women don't play Wow or something too?

There's nothing in the marketing of games that would push a 30 something to play a game if they didn't before.
Seriously if you don't play games in your 30s, nothing the industry push would entice you to play.
The more social games are actually targeting them since after all Google and Apple are doing the marketing for these apps.
And on top of that there's barely any marketing for the younger generation and looking at the toys sections, the gaming section isn't getting any bigger.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's the point. The 22% of gamers as defined in this research that are (EDIT: females) aged 35-64 are likely largely not playing Call of Duty. This isn't misogyny, it's simply the likely reality. The market is larger, and it includes more platforms for which there is greater gender balance and older demographics.

So your commentary on how this demographic shift is somehow a massive danger and that young people are moving away from traditional games seems melodramatic, when the change can be quite easily explained by the study using a more inclusive definition of what constitutes a gamer now than what was used in the past (1999). If the figures for 1999 included everyone playing Snake on their Nokia phones I imagine the demographics would look quite different.

If the data broke down the demographics more and showed that the 12% of gamers who are in the 11-14 category, or the 20% in the 11-24 year old male category had shifted in their consumption habits then there might be a case to argue.
 
Found these old figures, Jan - Jun 2013 sales (second number is LTD)

Code: 
1 	3DS 	237.950  	1.928.838 
2 	PS3 	198.158  	4.561.277 
3 	360 	92.405   	3.133.692 
4 	Wii 	62.470  	6.161.310 
5 	PSP 	46.467  	3.396.999 
6 	WiU 	38.927  	149.434 
7 	PSV 	34.592  	233.309

So ~800k 3DS and ~35k PSV sold in the second half? wtf.
 
Mael said:
How do you know the proportion ? Because unless you manage a micromania or something it's looking like bias more than anything.
Again >30% would certainly not be unexpected for the Sony/MSFT systems (as previously established Nintendo even boasted about a >50% ratio on DS some years ago).
Click to expand...

Do you really believe that 49% of traditionnal gamers are female in France or are you just playing the "you can't know you're not omniscient" card? Come on... just walk into any video game store, gaming convention, forum and everything gaming related.
Nintendo is a cultural exception, not an example of the bigger picture.
 
foxbeldin said:
Do you really believe that 49% of traditionnal gamers are female in France or are you just playing the "you can't know you're not omniscient" card? Come on... just walk into any video game store, gaming convention, forum and everything gaming related.
Nintendo is a cultural exception, not an example of the bigger picture.
Click to expand...

Yes I can believe women play video games, it isn't exactly hard.

Since women play video games.
 
shinra-bansho said:
Yes, that's the point. The 22% of gamers as defined in this research that are aged 35-64 are likely largely not playing Call of Duty. This isn't misogyny, it's simply the likely reality.

So your commentary on how this demographic shift is somehow a massive danger and that young people are moving away from traditional games seems melodramatic, when the change can be quite easily explained by the study using a more inclusive definition of what constitutes a gamer now than what was used in the past (1999). If the figures for 1999 included everyone playing Snake on their Nokia phones I imagine the demographics would look quite different.

If the data broke down the demographics more and showed that the 12% of gamers who are in the 11-14 category, or the 20% in the 11-24 year old male category had shifted in their consumption habits then there might be a case to argue.
Click to expand...
Actually I'm wrong on the younger not playing anymore (more than 90% playing).
I never said however that demographic shift to more girls playing was a bad thing.
On top of that it's 50% of household that play and not 50% of the population (more than 68M people and 28.6M players).
And again where do you get the split of women/men in more traditional console gaming from?
So far the only split we've been given before that I know of is from Nintendo on their system.
It's assumed that there's more men playing than women but without data it's a shot in the dark.
And even looking here I would never assume that girls wouldn't be part of the gaming population (even discounting social games)

foxbeldin said:
Do you really believe that 49% of traditionnal gamers are female in France or are you just playing the "you can't know you're not omniscient" card? Come on... just walk into any video game store, gaming convention, forum and everything gaming related.
Nintendo is a cultural exception, not an example of the bigger picture.
Click to expand...

Women play video games, how do I know that?
Simple I interact with women.
And they play video games, less than the men I know but they still do.
And I go into gaming conventions and....surprise, plenty of girls there.
Heck hilariously enough there was even a girl tournament on some fps in the last conv I went to
Again where did you take that girls don't play video games?
Next you'll tell me they don't read anything but shojo mangas too.
 
Village said:
Yes I can believe women play video games, it isn't exactly hard.

Since women play video games.
Click to expand...

I do believe women play traditionnal video games, just not in 1:1 proportion with men. How hard is that to believe?

Look at all those girls waiting to buy ps4s

and here, 50%?

I'm sorry, but the only reason my 65 years old mother in law is in those 49% is because she got an ipad and plays candy crush. She didn't suddenly develop a taste for cod.
The number of traditionnal female gamers went up, but isn't in par with men. I wish it was, i'd love to share my hobby with my wife, but that's just not the case. No matter how politicaly correct it sounds to say otherwise.
 
Mael said:
Actually I'm wrong on the younger not playing anymore (more than 90% playing).
I never said however that demographic shift to more girls playing was a bad thing.
On top of that it's 50% of household that play and not 50% of the population (more than 68M people and 28.6M players).
And again where do you get the split of women/men in more traditional console gaming from?
So far the only split we've been given before that I know of is from Nintendo on their system.
It's assumed that there's more men playing than women but without data it's a shot in the dark.
And even looking here I would never assume that girls wouldn't be part of the gaming population (even discounting social games)



Women play video games, how do I know that?
Simple I interact with women.
And they play video games, less than the men I know but they still do.
And I go into gaming conventions and....surprise, plenty of girls there.
Heck hilariously enough there was even a girl tournament on some fps in the last conv I went to
Again where did you take that girls don't play video games?
Next you'll tell me they don't read anything but shojo mangas.
Click to expand...

I suppose the joke is that they make up 50% of the reader base of the most popular Shounens.
 
foxbeldin said:
I do believe women play traditionnal video games, just not in 1:1 proportion with men. How hard is that to believe?

Look at all those girls waiting to buy ps4s

and here, 50%?

I'm sorry, but the only reason my 65 years old mother in law is in those 49% is because she got an ipad and plays candy crush. She didn't suddenly develop a taste for cod.
The number of traditionnal female gamers went up, but isn't in par with men. I wish it was, i'd love to share my hobby with my wife, but that's just not the case. No matter how politicaly correct it sounds to say otherwise.
Click to expand...

Do you really think that 28% of the gaming market of women from 6 to 34yo don't play traditional games?

Principate said:
I suppose the joke is that they make up 50% of the reader base of the most popular Shounens.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, that's most certainly the case but since it's shounen girls obviously don't read them, amirite?
 
Women play video games. A friend of mine loves The Last of Us and Uncharted and is addicted to WoW. She got me to play To The Moon. And that anecdote is on the whole relatively worthless.

This is how the numbers break down using population figures for 1999 and 2013.
Code: 
		Male	Female
1999		10.53	1.17
2013		15.93	15.93
Change		5.39	14.76
% Change	51.2	1260.7

2013:
11 - 14		1.91	1.91
15 - 24		4.46	3.82
25 - 34		3.82	3.19
35 - 44		3.19	3.19
45 - 64		2.87	3.82
While I would love the idea that the 1200% increase in the number of female gamers is because the traditional gaming market has become more inclusive and managed to attract them into the fold, including almost 7M women aged 35-64... I simply don't think that's the case. Although, I would, based on little but intuition, assume (and hope) that a reasonable chunk of those aged between 11-34 are playing on more traditional platforms. I think part of the increase in gamers, male and female, is due to the "mainstreaming" of gaming that has occurred over the last decade or so.
 
Orgen said:
It's more or less the same people? (21 in 1999 - 35 in 2013) :P

Thanks for the numbers!
Click to expand...

No, they changed the way they count someone a gamer. If your mom plays the built-in Spider card game on Windows every once in a while, she counts just as much as a heavy user who buys a game every other week for the purpose of the survey. All of that said, there are more female traditional gamers now than there were in 1999. That seems evident.
 
shinra-bansho said:
Women play video games. A friend of mine loves The Last of Us and Uncharted and is addicted to WoW. She got me to play To The Moon. And that anecdote is on the whole relatively worthless.

This is how the numbers break down using population figures for 1999 and 2013.
Code: 
		Male	Female
1999		10.53	1.17
2013		15.93	15.93
Change		5.39	14.76
% Change	51.2	1260.7

2013:
11 - 14		1.91	1.91
15 - 24		4.46	3.82
25 - 34		3.82	3.19
35 - 44		3.19	3.19
45 - 64		2.87	3.82
While I would love the idea that the 1200% increase in the number of female gamers is because the traditional gaming market has become more inclusive and managed to attract them into the fold, including almost 7M women aged 35-64... I simply don't think that's the case.
Click to expand...

So you're saying that basically, Wow and other online games as well as handhelds are not traditional games?

SmokyDave said:
Eh, much as I adore my neighbours, I'm aware they have awful taste ;)
Click to expand...

We'll talk about that when you manage to not overboil your dishes :p

Oh no he didn't!

The thing about the change in how they count people now is that these people are monetized one way or another and that wasn't the case before.
 
Mael said:
Do you really think that 28% of the gaming market of women from 6 to 34yo don't play traditional games?



Well yeah, that's most certainly the case but since it's shounen girls obviously don't read them, amirite?
Click to expand...

True enough, I'll be honest and say I somehow doubt the opposite is true. but I don't know any stats.

SmokyDave said:
Eh, much as I adore my neighbours, I'm aware they have awful taste ;)
Click to expand...

Come on all I see is all round excellent taste. Aside from Vita numbers those quite tragic.
 
Mael said:
Do you really think that 28% of the gaming market of women from 6 to 34yo don't play traditional games?
Click to expand...


You're not reading me are you? Where did i say that no women plays traditionnal games. Again, and last time because i'm tired of this : a lot of them play games, just not as much as men. (if you don't count mobile + facebook gaming)

Pyrrhus said:
No, they changed the way they count someone a gamer. If your mom plays the built-in Spider card game on Windows every once in a while, she counts just as much as a heavy user who buys a game every other week for the purpose of the survey. All of that said, there are more female traditional gamers now than there were in 1999. That seems evident.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
Mael said:
So you're saying that basically, Wow and other online games as well as handhelds are not traditional games?
Click to expand...
I don't think the split, if we must define it, goes along the line of games. I think there is an argument to be made regarding the separation between gamers and gaming enthusiasts, but without any data it's pointless.
 
Mael said:
So you're saying that basically, Wow and other online games as well as handhelds are not traditional games?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where you derived that.

My only assertions thus far are that a) the demographic shift is not necessarily some sort of portent as your initial post seemed to contend, and b) that at least part, I think a reasonably large part, of the demographic shift is due to differing definitions of who was classified as a gamer in 1999 v. this current research.
 
Pyrrhus said:
No, they changed the way they count someone a gamer. If your mom plays the built-in Spider card game on Windows every once in a while, she counts just as much as a heavy user who buys a game every other week for the purpose of the survey. All of that said, there are more female traditional gamers now than there were in 1999. That seems evident.
Click to expand...

Ohhhh I didn't know! Thanks for the clarification :)

Anyway Nintendo was doing a special research to see why they have more success in France than other European countries. Maybe they looked at this...
 
shinra-bansho said:
I'm not sure where you derived that.

My only assertions thus far are that a) the demographic shift is not necessarily some sort of portent and b) that at least part, I think a reasonably large part, of the demographic shift is due to differing definitions of who was classified as a gamer in 1999 v. this current research.
Click to expand...

edit: Scratch that.
 
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