Huh. That's really odd...
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#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
Huh. That's really odd...
copelandmaster
Member
It's probably a LOD bug. The game probably was switching between the different models. Maybe the model is the same but the textures (and possibly UV's, dunno if those work like that) change based on LOD. One LOD level just happens to be the pre-downgrade asset.
If the original assets are still in the game, that could potentially be good news for a fan mod down the road.
If the original assets are still in the game, that could potentially be good news for a fan mod down the road.
Krusenstern
Banned
I've seen it. It's this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEHkn_BE1No
Right before the 6 minute mark. :LOL
What does that mean?
CountAntonius
Member
Could mean the textures are still in the game but they added some downgraded ones for performance purposes? Could this mean the PC version will still use them?
Metalingus5150
Member
I think that some of the old assets are in the game still.
The network test file had all of the music tracks of the retail version.
Someone who had the file posted on tumblr that they could have leaked it if they wanted to.
John Rabbit
Banned
it means it was easier to simply add the new model and remove any usage of the old one, than to completely remove the old one.
there's a ton of unused data in most games. just look at how much is still inside Demon's Souls that wasn't even remotely used.
Krusenstern
Banned
Now we have to find a glitch that temporarily shows the pre-downgrade lighting.
copelandmaster
Member
After seeing the footage, and comparing it to January footage, I really don't know what to make of that.
Definitely a bug, but what kind? The model doesn't switch out, so it's not LOD.
I don't think that there was an model switch, but that doesn't mean that the original assets aren't still on the disk.
Definitely a bug, but what kind? The model doesn't switch out, so it's not LOD.
I don't think that there was an model switch, but that doesn't mean that the original assets aren't still on the disk.
John Rabbit
Banned
that wasn't a model switch, it's a lighting glitch. seems like a piece of geometry or his model was causing an issue with the lighting. you can recreate a similar glitch in Lost Bastille with a door near the bridge to Sinner's Rise.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
I've watched this like 5 times and I don't see what you're referring to.
Yea all I'm seeing is a really bad player that can't dodge a single attack
Metalingus5150
Member
Watch from 5:59 to 6:03
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
Is it the shield? I noticed it went from black to a shiny colorful look.
SilverBullet
Member
It's just a lighting/shaders glitch.
Krusenstern
Banned
The entirety of the Mirror Knight went shiny like in the pre-downgrade demos.
Garcia
Member
:lol, fair point but we're speaking of textures here, not picture quality. Feel free to upload a direct grab from the game; it won't make any difference. The texture repetition resembles a Tomb Raider game from the early PS1 days. I've been going through Dark Souls recently and, even when it also has its share of repeated textures, the way those are diluted and taken care of by using adequate lighting and variations is leaps ahead of the job done in Souls 2.
No idea what the hell were those guys thinking by going the quick route on the Sequel.
Well, that gives me a little bit of hope for the PC version.
copelandmaster
Member
Shaders, that's the word I was looking for, not UV's.
This could mean good news for the PC version. All FROM has to do is tweak those, fix the lighting, and then add the vfx particles back in. Some added VSSAO2 could help too.
Can modders fix shaders in retail games that don't have mod tools?
John Rabbit
Banned
can you site specific locations where you're seeing these repeated textures? otherwise this sounds like a massive case of selective memory. dark souls 1 has some of the worst abuse of texture repetition of the generation. lost izalith and demon ruins are especially bad.
SilverBullet
Member
Yeah I think they did the downgrade at the eleven hour and the fastest way was to turn off some attributes. Thats what I think we are seeing in the video. It's a specular attribute of the shader that pops in.
In other words, the shader from the preview version is there and it's the same just with some attributes turned off.
I don't think we will need mods to turn it on though. That is what FROM will do for the PC version.
Pyramid head
Banned
There was one posted on the previous page? Huge, gigantic room with a single low res texture tiled hundreds of times and pasted over every wall and the ceiling. It looks awful and it's fair to assume you weren't supposed to be able to see it pre downgrade.
Garcia
Member
I wonder if you've also been playing the game.
There are plenty of locations in Dark Souls 2 that abuse flat surface texture repetition (common during the PS1 days). One area in particular is almost a joke since it has the same single texture repeated everywhere: floors, walls, columns, hills and other objects look exactly the same. I am, of course, speaking of the infamous
Shaded Woods.
There is no location in Dark Souls 1 that comes close to that in terms of lack of polish. Not a single one.
In Dark Souls 2 you find yourself entering void square rooms with nothing but a bonfire or a handful of objects several times. Even when it's a sporadic occurrence, it is heavily accentuated because you sometimes reach such locations once you've gone through a relevant moment like a boss battle or an area transition. The lack of lighting only worsens the already shocking effect of gazing upon such a disgraceful sight.
Dark Souls 1 has repeated textures on the surface of most of its architecture, but the stochastic geometry, sporadic texture variations, FOV, lighting, brightness and contrast levels, the emphasis on your character and the highly detailed geometry of most enemies help together to ignore most of those secondary issues.
I'm going through a 2nd. DaS1 run specifically for visual and aesthetic comparisons and it is just unbelievable how many steps down the sequel took.
Yes, DaS1 has a very tight and reserved color palette, but it works because it is always, constantly coherent. There are no contradictions between any of the foreground and background elements throughout the game (even when you switch armors or weapons). Nothing ever truly stands out; it always meshes and comes together perfectly.
This is something that DaS2 lacks from the very moment you get the chance to move your character. He feels like an intruder in the world. He stands out immediately, like he doesn't (visually) belong in that universe and this reminder prevails for over 50 hours.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
lol, wow. Talk about reaching now.
Hahaha. The best part is that DSP is back on everyone's screens.
Yeah. Some of the posts in this thread are so far off from my own experience that I can't help but think "wat".
Robot Pants
Member
HO-LEE shit.
YianGaruga
Banned
The framerate isn't great, but it's very playable. The worst thing are 20-30 second load times and other loading related issues though.
It's kind of bad.
zephervack
Member
This is so weird, it obviously looks much better when the reflections are high, why would that be the "glitch" instead of the default model.
Slowed-Motion....
Slowed-Motion....
Slowed-Motion....
That is a strange glitch. This just keeps going deeper, hopefully returns for the PC version.
Sharp eyes.
YianGaruga
Banned
It seems like his shield reflects a greenish place with a blue sky in the first gif, which I find especially weird.
He also seems to be crossing from a light area to a shadowed area just as he glitches. So that's probably a factor.
zephervack
Member
Someone needs to go back to that boss and do some tests to see how the glitch gets activated, so weird.
So when does NAMCO finally start marketing the PC version? Two weeks from release? Is that when we'll finally know?
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'm not sure it's any secret the lighting is in the game in some capacity still - every in-game cutscene has it. It's especially noticeable in the boss intros.
I don't think the day they start marketing it will be the day we know hows it gonna look.
jimmypython
Member
This is so weird, it obviously looks much better when the reflections are high, why would that be the "glitch" instead of the default model.
Slowed-Motion....
did they seriously take a wrong build to GM lol?
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Seems to trigger if the Mirror Knight walks on a destroyed pillar. This glitch / bug happened to me yesterday too:
That horizontal lightning swipe of his also seemed nowhere near as long as it did in the preview build (the one with higher graphical fidelity). Think it didn't even show for me at one point, so I was left wondering what the big deal was about that attack. I'll post another comparison about that later.
Polioliolio
Member
So odd.
Well the performance doesn't seem to suffer when he reverts to his shiny look, so what's the dealio?
Well the performance doesn't seem to suffer when he reverts to his shiny look, so what's the dealio?
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Very interesting development with this boss glitching like that. Gives me great hope for the PC version after all.
You have to consider that it is only this one boss, one model, that is "glitching" back to the pre-release shaders. Now imagine if the entire area and environment also switched back to using these shaaders too, thats a lot of polys and texture work all of a sudden. It would most likely affect the framerate drastically on the old gen PS3 and X360. I mean that has to be the reason for the downgrade in the first place, the consoles just couldn't handle it.
You have to consider that it is only this one boss, one model, that is "glitching" back to the pre-release shaders. Now imagine if the entire area and environment also switched back to using these shaaders too, thats a lot of polys and texture work all of a sudden. It would most likely affect the framerate drastically on the old gen PS3 and X360. I mean that has to be the reason for the downgrade in the first place, the consoles just couldn't handle it.
Seems to trigger if the Mirror Knight walks on a destroyed pillar. This glitch / bug happened to me yesterday too:
That horizontal lightning swipe of his also seemed nowhere near as long as it did in the preview build (the one with higher graphical fidelity). Think it didn't even show for me at one point, so I was left wondering what the big deal was about that attack. I'll post another comparison about that later.
Ha ha this is so weird.
Garcia
Member
It does behave like shit constantly. PS3 disc user here. If you are going to get the PS3 version, go digital.
Polioliolio
Member
Well sure, but if the game can handle just him, why not leave just him in there?
I almost wonder if that's how he's supposed to look and the other version is the glitch. I mean, he's in there, he shows up, and they couldn't have possibly intended the mirror knight to have a black empty shield.
It's really like instead of fine tuning the downgrade, they just coded out the lighting on everything.
Garcia
Member
Yes, that glitch alone gave me hope for a better looking PC version. We'll just have to wait a couple of weeks more just to see if Scamco/From decide to release actual footage taken from the PC version.
Feeling sorry for the ps3 disc users. It with the digital version the performance is utter garbage.
If it wasn't for Xbox Live I would have taken the tearing over horrible framerate any day.
UnrealEck
Member
More crazy theories going on in here now. It's not an old model glitching in and out in place of a new one. It's the same model. You can even see the non-shiney (as seen in the retail release) texture on the preview demo gif at the end. It's an artificial effect to enhance the lightning in the area. It's just really shitty looking because FROM are technically inept.
malboroking
Banned
I've got PS3 digital and aside from Bettre load times, its not any better. DS1 has better overall performance. DS2 is certainly playable, but its got problems (stuttering framerate, input lag, some really bland areas). It just seems to be lacking some polish. Hopefully they can improve the performance, input lag and some questionable hit boxes in a patch because otherwise the game is very good.
It has nothing to do with the lightning. It doesn't even sync up with the lightning.
rogerroger22
Member
Behaves fine - I have had very few issues with FPS drops, and even fewer of those drops that have impacted game play. Generally runs fine.
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