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Microsoft Earnings: 1.2 million Xbox One's shipped in Jan-Mar, 5.1M total (3.9+1.2)

Someone finally went there. Was just a matter of time I guess.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, here. Microsoft themselves said the five hour figure included time spent in media apps and watching TV, and in the past has reported that the average 360 user spent more time using media apps than playing games.

So, the proper answer to his question is not, "Oooh, you went there!" but rather, "Yes, the five hour number includes TV watching, Skyping, watching movies or listening to music, browsing the internet, or watching Twitch streams."

Of course they aren't seeing five hours per day average gameplay across all users. That would be completely absurd, especially with as few games as the new consoles have.
 

slapnuts

Junior Member
Whoever thought to arrange a marketing deal between PlayStation and Watch Dogs / Destiny is a genius. That guarantees NPD dominance until the holidays.

But the holiday season should be interesting...

I don't think The Order or Halo 5 will make it. So will it come down to DriveClub + The Last of Us Remastered vs. Sunset Overdrive + Halo 2 Remastered?

I'm assuming the XBO will be $399.99 by June, so maybe that'll heat things up in favor of XBO as well? Or will it take a lot more than the price drop at this point?

Even at $399.99 by June there is no way that will give any "favor" to XBO...even at the same price point they are still at a disadvantage.

Once Sony gets in full gear with its first party AAA studios...its going to widen that margin and any snatching up new third party developers into first party ownership or to simply do a first party game sorta like Respawn doing a one time deal with MS to make TitanFall....these sort of things will also greatly favor Sony from this point on, Unless MS comes up with some type of genius plan to turn things around which i simply do not see happening.

Both companies have had their share of failed products over the years but one thing Sony seems to almost never fail or ruin is their PlayStation consoles and this new and improved attitude they seem to have with outside developers really brings a nice clean feel from developers down to the average consumers.

Things are not all that dark for Microsoft though, they cam simply humble themselves and opt for a strong 2nd place this generation by just focusing on quality games. That's good enough and there is nothing wrong with being 2nd place as long as the gap is not night and day sorta like how Wii U is compared to the other two systems.
 

beast786

Member
That reminds me, when they say the xbone is used average of 5 hours a day, does that include people who keep it on for the tv pass-through?
I think that has more to do with the fact that ps4 owners finish games faster because their games run faster at 60fps compare to 30fps of xb1.
 
I think that has more to do with the fact that ps4 owners finish games faster because their games run faster at 60fps compare to 30fps of xb1.

hCB9EE6C0
 
5 hours a day on average sounds excessive, no matter what the console (or hell, TV in general).

So, the proper answer to his question is not, "Oooh, you went there!" but rather, "Yes, the five hour number includes TV watching, Skyping, watching movies or listening to music, browsing the internet, or watching Twitch streams."

Fellas, sometimes I find humor in otherwise serious things.

Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not.
 
Huh? What have they not done that would be normal for a holiday-slated Sony exclusive in April? They've already had the big cover story on Game Informer and the like, (a week of stories on the website,) they had the expected huge media/preview events in Feb...

What have they not done? The only thing I can think of was not participating in VGX, but that was the norm for Sony at that event. They simply couldn't care less to be part of that debacle.

First of all, Game Informer covers are not indicative of near-final products. Exhibit A being Bioshock Infinte, or how about GTAIV? The list goes on.

Secondly, has anyone actually played it outside of Ready at Dawn? I don't think anyone has.

Third, the gameplay reveal you mentioned was ROUGH. Looked like they have a long way to go...

Hell, even by their own admission there is no set time-frame for launch aside from TBA 2014: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/03/26/ps4-games-in-2014-the-ultimate-list/

When they don't launch in 2014, I'll be back in this thread to say I told you so.
 
First of all, Game Informer covers are not indicative of near-final products. Exhibit A being Bioshock Infinte, or how about GTAIV? The list goes on.

Secondly, has anyone actually played it outside of Ready at Dawn? I don't think anyone has.

Third, the gameplay reveal you mentioned was ROUGH. Looked like they have a long way to go...

Hell, even by their own admission there is no set time-frame for launch aside from TBA 2014: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/03/26/ps4-games-in-2014-the-ultimate-list/

When they don't launch in 2014, I'll be back in this thread to say I told you so.

I'm genuinely impressed by how much you're reading from absolutely nothing. And when you're wrong I'm guessing you won't be back in this thread or ever mention it again, right?
 

jamiept

Banned
Time:
MS was planning on another pre-Sony launch. They figured they could launch unfinished with beta components and make use the lag time between the the XB1 and the PS4 in THREE key ways.

Power:
Launching early would have allowed it to claim it's the most powerful on the market, regardless if they targeted it or not.

DRM:
That alone would have given them reason to keep the DRM in, because people wouldn't have any other choice. New console, super powerful, new online design. Sure. People eat it up, figure Sony is too far off.

Price:
Additionally, given a lead time, price would have been far less of an issue. At launch, you have no competition, and later, you can drop your price as needed.

Instead, Sony rushed everything for 2013, and MS got fucked. Without the advantage of time, the other three aspects of the Xbox One became instant liabilities.

Hmm, sure.

Nice to see this thread has turned into fairytale corner.
 
First of all, Game Informer covers are not indicative of near-final products. Exhibit A being Bioshock Infinte, or how about GTAIV? The list goes on.

Secondly, has anyone actually played it outside of Ready at Dawn? I don't think anyone has.

Third, the gameplay reveal you mentioned was ROUGH. Looked like they have a long way to go...

Hell, even by their own admission there is no set time-frame for launch aside from TBA 2014: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/03/26/ps4-games-in-2014-the-ultimate-list/

When they don't launch in 2014, I'll be back in this thread to say I told you so.

Meh even without the order ps4 will easily outsell x1, so why all the effort in this post? Sounds like baseless speculation devoid of any facts to me
 
I wouldn't give that post that much credence, dude acts like he's read the contract.

It's GAF and the Internet so you're right to be skeptical. And no, I haven't read the Foxconn/MS contract. But what I'm describing is pretty standard for contract manufacturers. It's not really a secret how Foxconn and other contract manufacturers operate either. Sure, it's possible that MS is able to cut a deal that is totally different than what everyone else gets, but I find that unlikely.

3 months into productions, MS relative to Sony seems to have cut production by half, or Sony has somehow managed to double it's production relative to MS

Seems odd that even Foxconn could be that flexible that quickly

Still not sure where I fall on the XB1 production

Someone else already posted a link describing some of Foxconn's production lines, and it says they're simple and modular. What this means is that the manufacturing process is broken down into very simple actions. There will be a station where the person's job is a single task that is general very simple, like screwing in the BRD. It then goes to the next station where the person sticks in the BRD connectors. And so on. Each station is set up so that there can be multiple people standing there doing the task and there is very little training needed. Turning production volume up and down can be as easy as adding or removing people from the various stations, or even building new stations to staff more workers..

Each production line has a set time frame that a product is supposed to take to build. Let's say it's 4 weeks for the XB1 (just a random number, the real number is probably in 10+ week range). MS will plan out how much volume of XB1s they think they'll need for the future months. They need to factor in that 4 week build time, so if they need 200k units in May, they know they have to order at least 200k units by the end of April. It's unlikely they do one large order; most likely they do smaller weekly orders. So if by the end of April, they realize they just need 150k, they just don't place an order that last week. It gets harder as the production time increases, but the principles are the same.

So why doesn't Foxconn get pissed off by lower volumes? This is where the conjecture comes in because I have no idea. Foxconn might be getting paid per unit built. It could be that as the cumulative volume of units built increases, the amount they get paid goes down. So even with low volumes the overall payments they get should be stable. On the other hand, they might be getting paid larger fees for maintaining the production lines. If that's the case they may not care if the line is not building much, they're getting paid anyway. Or they may be doing something completely different, but Foxconn takes care of Foxconn; they are in enough demand that they can ensure they are being paid one way or another. Plus the tasks each worker does is so simple, they are easily transferred to a completely different production line, so the risk of having idle workers is lower even with production lines down. Parts can be stored, and while contract manufacturers don't like to hold on to that stuff, it is really only a problem if the part is only used for a single product (like the APU) AND the line completely shuts down, which is unlikely.

Again, this is all standard capacity management stuff, nothing secret or magical about it. It could be MS does something totally different... they are Microsoft after all, and have more clout and cash than a typical company.
 

jaypah

Member
Are there people here who think that the Xbox One will eventually catch up to ps4 in US?

Probably. There are people that think the Xbox will continue to sell what it's selling now (or less) for the rest of the generation. Some believe they can eventually take the US. Some think cucumbers taste better pickled. GAF is a pretty big site.

Meh even without the order ps4 will easily outsell x1, so why all the effort in this post?

Did this exchange begin with the idea that the Xbox would outsell the PS4 if The Order didn't make 2014?
 

samar11

Member
Probably. There are people that think the Xbox will continue to sell what it's selling now (or less) for the rest of the generation. Some believe they can eventually take the US. Some think cucumbers taste better pickled. GAF is a pretty big site.

lol how are they going to do that? because xbox? I thought brand power doesn't mean shit in america?
 

jaypah

Member
Are there people in here who really don't think this is possible?

To be fair Marley there's a slight difference between possible and expected.

lol how are they going to do that? because xbox? I thought brand power doesn't mean shit in america?

I can't possibly know why anyone thinks anything. But I will say that I also can't predict the future so I'm not going to say it isn't going to happen. Some things are a given. MS doesn't have the strength in a lot of markets to overtake PS4 WW. That should be a given. But I'm not ready to say anything about the US just yet. Maybe a year and a half from now I'd hang my hat on a decision but for now it's just too early. Anything could be a shakeup and I'd rather be conservative now than to look like a fool later. I honestly don't see them taking the US but I understand that I'm looking at it through April 2014 glasses.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Are there people here who think that the Xbox One will eventually catch up to ps4 in US?

Possible for the US. They need to make some significant changes this year though.

Don't see how anyone can say they have a chance at catching up for worldwide sales though. Xbox One would have had to been $300 and/or launched a year before PS4 to have a chance at doing better in worldwide overall sales. The Playstation brand is simply more popular worldwide.
 

artist

Banned
Time:
MS was planning on another pre-Sony launch. They figured they could launch unfinished with beta components and make use the lag time between the the XB1 and the PS4 in THREE key ways.

Power:
Launching early would have allowed it to claim it's the most powerful on the market, regardless if they targeted it or not.

DRM:
That alone would have given them reason to keep the DRM in, because people wouldn't have any other choice. New console, super powerful, new online design. Sure. People eat it up, figure Sony is too far off.

Price:
Additionally, given a lead time, price would have been far less of an issue. At launch, you have no competition, and later, you can drop your price as needed.

Instead, Sony rushed everything for 2013, and MS got fucked. Without the advantage of time, the other three aspects of the Xbox One became instant liabilities.
Highly plausible.
 
You do realize that the entire crux of the discussion was that availability of PS4 at retail in the US/UK does not reflect worldwide conditions, especially in mainland Europe, right?

So you're basically saying you're upset at people who were trying to provide an international perspective on the situation because, in your estimation, they should be trying to provide an international perspective on the situation.

He's fine with an international perspective, as long as that perspective shows XB1 winning and PS4 sitting on shelves unwanted.

So do we think they were actually fed false information then? Or was it all down to too many cooks?
One shitty cook will ruin the broth anyway.


I always did get the impression Steve Ballmer never washed his hands after using the toilet
 

DOWN

Banned
Doesn't seem bad considering how few countries they're in, and the price.

But they are in a very high percentage of their projected total sales market, if I recall. The numbers get rather small when considering the buying power of the countries they haven't entered. The US and a handful of European countries do the heavy lifting on the global sales, if I recall correctly.
 
Are there people in here who really don't think this is possible?

A lot of things are possible. Its better to look at the probabilities rather than the possibilities.

Its certainly not probable considering XB1 got outsold even when it had its biggest "exclusive" of the year and had a price cut with bundles.
 

fasTRapid

Banned
Price is killing them right now. Not games. Their games have been some good fun. Once price is lowered. Boom.. USA starts to make the comeback. IMO.
If it only were for the price, then how do you explain the decreasing wow sales in the USA in Titanfall's launch month when retailers were constantly offering the bundle for $449 and even $399, making it a better deal than the PS4?
 
Time:
MS was planning on another pre-Sony launch. They figured they could launch unfinished with beta components and make use the lag time between the the XB1 and the PS4 in THREE key ways.

Power:
Launching early would have allowed it to claim it's the most powerful on the market, regardless if they targeted it or not.

DRM:
That alone would have given them reason to keep the DRM in, because people wouldn't have any other choice. New console, super powerful, new online design. Sure. People eat it up, figure Sony is too far off.

Price:
Additionally, given a lead time, price would have been far less of an issue. At launch, you have no competition, and later, you can drop your price as needed.

Instead, Sony rushed everything for 2013, and MS got fucked. Without the advantage of time, the other three aspects of the Xbox One became instant liabilities.

More likely they assumed that if people were fine with paying for XBLive then they will accept anything.
 

Steroyd

Member
Possible for the US. They need to make some significant changes this year though.

I'm not seeing what they could change to turn things around, a price cut has a chance but I'm not too sure after March NPD and it's not like they got games coming exclusive to Xbox* coming out of the wazoo like they have been in the last couple of months either.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
A lot of things are possible. Its better to look at the probabilities rather than the possibilities.

Its certainly not probable considering XB1 got outsold even when it had its biggest "exclusive" of the year and had a price cut with bundles.

Titanfall is a new IP that released early in the gen. Things can still change as the Xbox One gets a bigger library of games -- games that are a part of already well established/popular IPs in America that have been around for more than a decade. They need to make some pretty significant moves before this Fall/Xmas season though.

If it only were for the price, then how do you explain the decreasing wow sales in the USA in Titanfall's launch month when retailers were constantly offering the bundle for $449 and even $399, making it a better deal than the PS4?

Price is a huge factor especially right now considering that the retail games on the PS4 and Xbox One are mostly the same. While there was interest in Titanfall (hence why it sold well), the game was seemingly a victim of its own hype when it comes to "system seller status". It did sell systems but due to the game being hyped for so long, many people got the Xbox One to play the game before the game released. Sales of the Xbox One would have been lower obviously without the game (since iirc the Titanfall bundle was around 2/3 of March NPD Xbox One sales) but the game obviously didn't sell as many Xbox Ones after launch as many expected it to.

E3 is coming where new games will be shown (some more in depth) and the Fall/Xmas season will have a lot of games from well established IPs that will cause more people to move from their last gen consoles and get a current gen console. A price drop across the board (every 500 GB Xbox One) before that time will definitely help the system. It has to be a good price though (which IMO would be $400 or less -- anything over $400 is too much for the general gaming audience).
 

gtj1092

Member
Titanfall is a new IP that released early in the gen. Things can still change as the Xbox One gets a bigger library of games -- games that are a part of already well established/popular IPs in America that have been around for more than a decade. They need to make some pretty significant moves before this Fall/Xmas season though.



Price is a huge factor especially right now considering that the retail games on the PS4 and Xbox One are mostly the same. While there was interest in Titanfall (hence why it sold well), the game was seemingly a victim of its own hype when it comes to "system seller status". It did sell systems but due to the game being hyped for so long, many people got the Xbox One to play the game before the game released. Sales of the Xbox One would have been lower obviously without the game (since iirc the Titanfall bundle was around 2/3 of March NPD Xbox One sales) but the game obviously didn't sell as many Xbox Ones after launch as many expected it to.

E3 is coming where new games will be shown (some more in depth) and the Fall/Xmas season will have a lot of games from well established IPs that will cause more people to move from their last gen consoles and get a current gen console. A price drop across the board (every 500 GB Xbox One) before that time will definitely help the system. It has to be a good price though (which IMO would be $400 or less -- anything over $400 is too much for the general gaming audience).

Missed you during NPD. You still sticking to your idea that the sales gap won't reach 400k? Looks like it will be that by the end of the month.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Missed you during NPD. You still sticking to your idea that the sales gap won't reach 400k? Looks like it will be that by the end of the month.

It already is pretty much 400K in America (2.52 Million vs. 2.9 Million). Thought Titanfall would make the Xbox One sell more than the PS4 in March but it didn't.

I honestly can't predict what will happen in the upcoming months as of right now. Do feel that the PS4 will sell more but we may see another NPD like February's where it wasn't by much. That (February) was another month that surprised me. Didn't expect the Xbox One to be so close to the PS4 during that month after the 2:1 January.
 
It already is pretty much 400K in America (2.52 Million vs. 2.9 Million). Thought Titanfall would make the Xbox One sell more than the PS4 in March but it didn't.

I honestly can't predict what will happen in the upcoming months as of right now. Do feel that the PS4 will sell more but we may see another NPD like February's where it wasn't by much. That (February) was another month that surprised me. Didn't expect the Xbox One to be so close to the PS4 during that month after the 2:1 January.

Sony needed few hundred thousands of consoles for launch in Japan.Tha't the only reason why February was close.
 

Abdiel

Member
Titanfall is a new IP that released early in the gen. Things can still change as the Xbox One gets a bigger library of games -- games that are a part of already well established/popular IPs in America that have been around for more than a decade. They need to make some pretty significant moves before this Fall/Xmas season though.



Price is a huge factor especially right now considering that the retail games on the PS4 and Xbox One are mostly the same. While there was interest in Titanfall (hence why it sold well), the game was seemingly a victim of its own hype when it comes to "system seller status". It did sell systems but due to the game being hyped for so long, many people got the Xbox One to play the game before the game released. Sales of the Xbox One would have been lower obviously without the game (since iirc the Titanfall bundle was around 2/3 of March NPD Xbox One sales) but the game obviously didn't sell as many Xbox Ones after launch as many expected it to.

E3 is coming where new games will be shown (some more in depth) and the Fall/Xmas season will have a lot of games from well established IPs that will cause more people to move from their last gen consoles and get a current gen console. A price drop across the board (every 500 GB Xbox One) before that time will definitely help the system. It has to be a good price though (which IMO would be $400 or less -- anything over $400 is too much for the general gaming audience).

The problem I see with the idea of a price cut that drastic within less than a year is two fold, and both are things I've seen others call to attention.

1) Microsoft went into this generation intending to not take a loss on hardware, to be profitable almost immediately with every system sold. Taking 100 off the top like that (Hell, even the 50 dollars of March in most retailers), is going to put a big crunch on that goal, and it removes money from other optional projects/funds for the department to use. It's sort of a rock/hard place situation, because Kinect costing almost 100 by itself, if they remove it, they could easily hit that price point, but lose what they consider an ace in the hole, so to speak. I'm not personally fond of kinect (why not just have voice commands be accessible through a mic?), but I don't think it's bad technology, and taking it out would leave the OS with only controller navigation, which according to my roommate and plenty of GAFers, is annoyingly less intuitive.

2) Putting the system on price parity with the PS4 doesn't remove the public awareness that it's the weaker system. More and more customers are coming in, saying they don't want the XB1 because it's not going to play games as well. Whether or not that's true (the games still play fine, just at lower res/frame rate) is relative to us, the enthusiasts, but for customers, they've heard from their 'trusted sources', and that's what they're going to work off of. If the XB1 drops to 400, it's just the same cost for the weaker system. People seem to think that consumers now go in completely blind about these things, but look at the number of articles and discussions even major news organizations have posted or had on TV, boiled down to the absolute minimal bullet points: all of which aren't kind to MS's product, unless the reviewer is really keen on Kinect.
 

Portugeezer

Member
Where do people get this February reveal "blind sided" narrative? I never for one second believed both those consoles were not coming out in the fall of 2013, and I don't think Microsoft did either.

Kaz Hirai: Why go first?

And with the way Sony was last gen it was totally believable that they would rest on their laurels, people thirsty for next gen were pissed when Kaz Hirai said that.

A week later they tease the future of PlayStation (PS4)

A classic move.

Microsoft waited till late May to announce the XB1 and the OS seemed incomplete at launch. I think Microsoft waited till the last minute whether or not to announce it that year and decided to go along with a 2013 release, but even if they didn't, they were caught out and it was a spiral of bad news and Microsoft hate for mooooonths, even when they reversed their DRM decisions.
 

BigDug13

Member
I think people are overestimating the importance of individual exclusive games on PS4. As I've said before, Sony consoles thrive on delivering a strong game library across numerous genres, not single "silver bullet" system sellers like Halo or Mario or Zelda or what Microsoft thinks Gears of War will be.

Sony sells lots of different titles that each sell much less than a Halo or Mario game. This idea that "The Order" releasing in 2014 is paramount to them remaining on top in sales is silly to me. I personally could give a rat's ass about the game and I don't think people are on the fence about the console waiting to see if The Order comes out this year. It's not a silver bullet system seller and it was never going to be. The strength of the overall library and not the importance of individual games is how Playstation thrives.
 

Portugeezer

Member
I think people are overestimating the importance of individual exclusive games on PS4. As I've said before, Sony consoles thrive on delivering a strong game library across numerous genres, not single "silver bullet" system sellers like Halo or Mario or Zelda or what Microsoft thinks Gears of War will be.

Sony sells lots of different titles that each sell much less than a Halo or Mario game. This idea that "The Order" releasing in 2014 is paramount to them remaining on top in sales is silly to me. I personally could give a rat's ass about the game and I don't think people are on the fence about the console waiting to see if The Order comes out this year. It's not a silver bullet system seller and it was never going to be. The strength of the overall library and not the importance of individual games is how Playstation thrives.

It has always been that way. Their biggest franchise, Gran Turismo, sells well but then outside of that it has limited appeal.
 

BigDug13

Member
It has always been that way. Their biggest franchise, Gran Turismo, sells well but then outside of that it has limited appeal.

Exactly. So I don't understand how the conversation has shifted to "if The Order doesn't make 2014, watch as Xbox outsells PS4". It's bullshit because the game is probably going to sell 2 million at best. Mostly to people who already own the system. How many people are going to buy the PS4 just for The Order? Not many I suspect.
 

Felessan

Member
Price is a huge factor especially right now considering that the retail games on the PS4 and Xbox One are mostly the same. While there was interest in Titanfall (hence why it sold well), the game was seemingly a victim of its own hype when it comes to "system seller status".
The biggest problem for X1 is the same as for WiiU - the positive feedback loop on negativity. And it's a race against time - the more you do nothing, the bigger perception of "inferior overpriced product" will become. As perception spreads - its becomes harder and more costly tro battle against it. And two or three games and some pricecut will not save you as you hoped. People will just not want to associate themselves with inferior product.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
The biggest problem for X1 is the same as for WiiU - the positive feedback loop on negativity. And it's a race against time - the more you do nothing, the bigger perception of "inferior overpriced product" will become. As perception spreads - its becomes harder and more costly tro battle against it. And two or three games and some pricecut will not save you as you hoped. People will just not want to associate themselves with inferior product.

The Xbox One is no way in a similar situation as the Wii U. The system has solid third party support, solid game sales to keep on getting solid game support, and it has current and future exclusive games that will actually attract to the core/mainstream gaming demographic. This is on top of their being an actual (large) online userbase.

The "inferior perception" of the Wii U is on a completely different level.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
It already is pretty much 400K in America (2.52 Million vs. 2.9 Million). Thought Titanfall would make the Xbox One sell more than the PS4 in March but it didn't.

I honestly can't predict what will happen in the upcoming months as of right now. Do feel that the PS4 will sell more but we may see another NPD like February's where it wasn't by much. That (February) was another month that surprised me. Didn't expect the Xbox One to be so close to the PS4 during that month after the 2:1 January.

The PS4 was heavily suuply constrained in Feb. All consoles were up 44%-100%+ except the PS4 which was down 0.7%.
 

Bgamer90

Banned
Sony needed few hundred thousands of consoles for launch in Japan.Tha't the only reason why February was close.

The PS4 was heavily suuply constrained in Feb. All consoles were up 44%-100%+ except the PS4 which was down 0.7%.

Yeah, I know. I was mainly referring to the increase in Xbox One sales for the month (February). Sold more than 100K what it did in January. February had Plants vs. Zombies but I didn't think that that was a really hyped game; on top of that, the game launched during the last week of February.

So yeah, didn't expect the increase since there wasn't really anything new on the system in terms of game content.
 

d9b

Banned
I would say Microsoft (XboxOne) sold (to consumers) around 2.5M so far and that is a very generous estimate.
 
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