It's nice, I guess? Jason doesn't seem to do much more than blow smoke about the people who pay him though. Jim Sterling can at least refrain from insincerity, damage control, and giving his company a handjob when communicating with people here.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Nintendo and the press.
- Thread starter Empyrean Heaven
- Start date
It's nice, I guess? Jason doesn't seem to do much more than blow smoke about the people who pay him though. Jim Sterling can at least refrain from insincerity, damage control, and giving his company a handjob when communicating with people here.
I wish they were doing a press conference, because I love the vibe of live performances, but I'm excited for the Smash Bros. tournament and whatever cool stuff they have to show.
Nintendo has some quirks that other companies don't have, which may contribute to feelings of malaise or irritation among reporters or other people who have to deal with the company on a regular basis. For example, they tend to send out review copies super-early -- which is great! -- but they're saddled with long, complicated embargo sheets filled with ridiculous bullet points like "you can show video, but only up to 5 videos of 10 minutes each" or "please do not mention any stages after 5-1." That can be frustrating for reviewers.
Also, just about every gamer has a complicated relationship with Nintendo because Nintendo is the company that pioneered video games as we know them today. Reporters are no exception. But the whole "Nintendo vs. press" thing just doesn't feel rooted in anything. Of course there's the reality that Nintendo has been struggling, and when a company is struggling, every blogger in the world feels the urge to tell that company what to do, so maybe that's where this idea is coming from.
All that said... I'd love to see more companies interacting with their fans directly and pushing aside the concept of "exclusive reveals" in favor of their own video streams and blog posts. That'd make for a healthier press, I think.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
I love Nintendo too. I fully fall into the "young at heart" way of thinking. I also love Disney, Star Wars, and all the nostalgic things when I was a kid. Hell, I'm 30 years old and still play the fuck out of Pokemon.
bitesnintendog
Member
I love Nintendo but it is not a stretch to say they primarily target the family and child market which is not the same demographic that goes to most game blogs. If you look at their advertising since the Wii U and 3DS came out it is extremely targeted to young boys and families. Most of their advertising campaigns focus on Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, and Disney Channel, which for the majority of their products is a smart place to go. The few products that appeal outside those demographics get advertised elsewhere, like Fire Emblem on Adult Swim.
If Jason or someone who works at another large game site could give comparative numbers for news articles that focus on Nintendo vs other publishers and games I think that could be beneficial to the discussion. Is it the case of less people being interested in their Nintendo coverage so they put less focus on it?
It could also be that they often get the same sanitized coverage as most of their competitors, making it unattractive to dedicate resources to since they know 50 other sites will have a similar article releasing on the same day.
Oh, I know. I was 100% serious, I know you're a fan and a realist. The two definitely don't have to be mutually exclusive.
But somehow is possible to just hover above it.
You can tell a news thread from a clickbait article thread easily.
Gaf is much faster and reliable in delivering gaming news. And funnier. I used to follow lots of gaming sites some 5 years ago. Now i only have game tublrs in my reader (and a few Nintendo enthusiast blogs)
I think you are over-emphasizing the family friendly stuff a bit too much. There is a sense that Nintendo does want an older audience to buy their products.
When you see Nintendo trying to get exclusives like Fatal Frame, Bayonetta 2, X, ZombiU, Monster Hunter....these aren't games that I would throw in the "family" category. We're talking about games that are aimed specifically at hardcore gamers. Even games like DKC Tropical Freeze are more difficult than most kids games on the market.
I imagine that Nintendo is still quite connected to the press, but there can be no denying that they're a little more direct with their consumers and don't rely on the "middle man" as much as the competition, which obviously rubs many journalists the wrong way.
And as I've expressed before, I don't think Nintendo needs the press to get people talking and buzzing.
And as I've expressed before, I don't think Nintendo needs the press to get people talking and buzzing.
I'm not sure it's just Nintendo or even just the games media.
To me it seems that many writers want everything to fail in the face of change and progress just so can they write about how they should have listened to their all knowing words of prophecy and get a slight boost to their reputation as an expert.
Be that Nintendo, physical media, sports teams/ageing players, cash, traditional TV, the high-street or even relatively new things like Facebook.
To me it seems that many writers want everything to fail in the face of change and progress just so can they write about how they should have listened to their all knowing words of prophecy and get a slight boost to their reputation as an expert.
Be that Nintendo, physical media, sports teams/ageing players, cash, traditional TV, the high-street or even relatively new things like Facebook.
Thanks man
I wonder if the thread title should read, "Nintendo fans and the press."
By my estimation the press only reflect back the pulse of gaming culture in real time. Their ranks are primarily composed of gamers, thus the moniker 'enthusiast press'. As such, they report in a tone reflecting current attitudes about the entire industry and all its players.
It's pretty normal in any type of enthusiast media, not just gaming.
Typically those who fly off the handle the hardest are those who don't like the message reverberating back to them. That would be your typical hardcore Nintendo loyalist. I'm not talking about average fans here, but those truly invested. And who can blame them?
Nintendo, who certainly have moments of brilliance, has been on a downward trajectory since the SNES. That can be a difficult reality to swallow when you're so emotionally invested in the company. So the typical solution is to reflect blame back onto the press, who are only expressing common ideas most in the gaming community at large share anyway.
Like I said, this is not a phenomena exclusive to Nintendo fans. I see it everywhere out there in the real world. Whether you're talking sports, politics, religion and more. I guess it's just a common human trait.
By my estimation the press only reflect back the pulse of gaming culture in real time. Their ranks are primarily composed of gamers, thus the moniker 'enthusiast press'. As such, they report in a tone reflecting current attitudes about the entire industry and all its players.
It's pretty normal in any type of enthusiast media, not just gaming.
Typically those who fly off the handle the hardest are those who don't like the message reverberating back to them. That would be your typical hardcore Nintendo loyalist. I'm not talking about average fans here, but those truly invested. And who can blame them?
Nintendo, who certainly have moments of brilliance, has been on a downward trajectory since the SNES. That can be a difficult reality to swallow when you're so emotionally invested in the company. So the typical solution is to reflect blame back onto the press, who are only expressing common ideas most in the gaming community at large share anyway.
Like I said, this is not a phenomena exclusive to Nintendo fans. I see it everywhere out there in the real world. Whether you're talking sports, politics, religion and more. I guess it's just a common human trait.
The press and Nintendo is a super weird thing. Largely because Nintendo themselves are a super weird thing. You either get how they operate and what makes their games different (not saying you always have to "like" them), or they're this oddball thing that you don't pay attention to as they talk to themselves in a corner.
As a result, when talking about Nintendo, its hard to find people who can talk honestly and intelligently about what they do. Jose Otero and the IGN Nintendo crew have been generally good voice on the matter (I mean Jose is a Nintendo editor, you'd hope he would be...). I love Giantbomb with all my heart but I wouldn't really talk to most of them about Nintendo games outside of Patrick or maybe Alex. Part of that probably comes from the fact that they're the ones that generally actually bother to play those games to any deeper degree, even if only sometimes. And even still, I probably couldn't talk to any of them about happenings on the eShop.
And on the flipside, you also have some Nintendo-focused fansites who seem way too into everything Nintendo does with little perspective of what's happening outside those two platforms.
It's a hard balance to strike, especially when there is so much to cover out there. And let's be honest, these sites focus their attention (and what they spend time playing themselves) on what gets them hits, and it mostly isn't Nintendo software. Not saying it justifies the detachment, but they're going to focus their efforts on what makes sense for them.
That said, that first paragraph in the Gamespot article does come off as super condescending, and whatever joke they were trying to make didn't really land. I get that the WiiU is in serious trouble, that's not even a question. But even from a purely professional perspective, if a developer is going to ask you to show off their game and you start off like that, that's just kinda shitty.
Nintendo needs to be better about being open and letting their people talk, though. And with a looser collar around their neck. It atleast gives the press more to talk about than the same few points about their games and hardware and regurgitating the same arguments. For example the director of Animal Crossing: New Leaf got to talk at GDC, and she also had an interview with Giantbomb where she talked about her inspirations which included Ultima Online. That's fascinating. That's great. That's the stuff that's super interesting. More of that please.
As a result, when talking about Nintendo, its hard to find people who can talk honestly and intelligently about what they do. Jose Otero and the IGN Nintendo crew have been generally good voice on the matter (I mean Jose is a Nintendo editor, you'd hope he would be...). I love Giantbomb with all my heart but I wouldn't really talk to most of them about Nintendo games outside of Patrick or maybe Alex. Part of that probably comes from the fact that they're the ones that generally actually bother to play those games to any deeper degree, even if only sometimes. And even still, I probably couldn't talk to any of them about happenings on the eShop.
And on the flipside, you also have some Nintendo-focused fansites who seem way too into everything Nintendo does with little perspective of what's happening outside those two platforms.
It's a hard balance to strike, especially when there is so much to cover out there. And let's be honest, these sites focus their attention (and what they spend time playing themselves) on what gets them hits, and it mostly isn't Nintendo software. Not saying it justifies the detachment, but they're going to focus their efforts on what makes sense for them.
That said, that first paragraph in the Gamespot article does come off as super condescending, and whatever joke they were trying to make didn't really land. I get that the WiiU is in serious trouble, that's not even a question. But even from a purely professional perspective, if a developer is going to ask you to show off their game and you start off like that, that's just kinda shitty.
Nintendo needs to be better about being open and letting their people talk, though. And with a looser collar around their neck. It atleast gives the press more to talk about than the same few points about their games and hardware and regurgitating the same arguments. For example the director of Animal Crossing: New Leaf got to talk at GDC, and she also had an interview with Giantbomb where she talked about her inspirations which included Ultima Online. That's fascinating. That's great. That's the stuff that's super interesting. More of that please.
Mysterious
Banned
Those do not generate sufficient cash flow for Nintendo.
I love traffic metrics and am always happy to talk about numbers, but traffic isn't influenced one way or another by the publisher; it's influenced by the game. Smash Bros. is a very high-interest game on our website, for example. Pokemon, too. Professor Layton, not so much. (Sadly.)
Interest in stories about companies will vary depending on the story. I imagine more people are interested in the fate of Nintendo than they are in the fate of, say, Ubisoft, but an interesting news story about Ubisoft (like, say, Ubisoft going bankrupt) will probably perform better than "yet another opinion article" about Nintendo.
outunderthestars
Banned
The problem with their direct model is that the only people they get talking are the people who would have already run out to buy their products in the first place. They have really struggled with messaging audiences besides their dedicated fan base.
I'd really say that it's more of a cycle. Certain parts of the press has often misquoted/mistranslated Iwata and ignored many facets of Nintendo news. As such, Nintendo has shifted the way they reveal things directly to the consumer. As such, the press gets ignored and angry.
It's a horrific cycle.
That said, I know that they do still consult with the press often. As Jason said, review copies get sent out, there are press events, press packs, press releases etc.
So much this. In this day and age, interaction with the fans is far more logical and should be the path of all companies. It's not fair or logical that people keep trashing Nintendo for doing it.
Read it again. Jesus, he isn't even attacking the company lol.
Okay, but why invest in those games if they have little interest in an audience outside of kids and families? How does Nintendo benefit? I can't imagine that some of these exclusivity deals are cheap for Nintendo. \
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Guys, there is a big difference between diversifying your product offering, and investing large sums of money to bring these products to market. Nintendo releases products for a lot of people. They focus on communicating their messaging to a much more specific demographic. And that is family and young adults. Pay attention to where their money gets spent, and the way it is delivered. Them making Fatal Frame and Bayonetta 2 and all that does not by any means diminish the point I am trying to make. These are more resources dedicated to bringing NoA revenue on Mario and that brand than any of the other products because that's what gets NoA the revenue to hit their contribution goals to NCL. And ask yourself what is more interesting for core-focused press to cover... stories about the next Mario, or stories about how NoA isn't marketing Bayonetta 2 "right?"
Just read this thread for crying outloud:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=760049
And that's their president talking.
You guys act like I make this stuff up
Interceptor
Banned
No it´s not. Read again.
damn
I think it's been years since I didn't visit Gamespot... thanks for remembering me why
OldKingDoran
Banned
So the only non-children Nintendo owners that browse websites are fanboys? lol.
plantedunicorn
Member
I don't think he meant fanboys in a derogatory way.
Porcile
Member
The thing is, Nintendo Directs started out as fairly quaint little curiosities, but as time has gone on they've evolved into something much bigger than many people would have ever expected. The latest Nintendo videos have been pretty well produced and proving very popular and that cuts straight into the content which many gaming websites would have produced themselves in the past. They don't need them to host it either, Nintendo can post it to Youtube and publicise through their own channels. It bypasses the press completely and that sets a dangerous precedent because at some point it's not going to be just Nintendo producing this sort of direct-to-fan content. Decent video content is about 1000x cheaper to produce and 1000x more wide-reaching than it was ten years ago.
Personally, I think Nintendo have to be admired for being the first gaming company to go this route, because they've seen an opportunity and they're very much taking it (talking about the popularity of Direct's, sales are a different thing). They've evolved, and at some point the press need too as well. That's the nature of these things.
Personally, I think Nintendo have to be admired for being the first gaming company to go this route, because they've seen an opportunity and they're very much taking it (talking about the popularity of Direct's, sales are a different thing). They've evolved, and at some point the press need too as well. That's the nature of these things.
bitesnintendog
Member
Thanks for the reply. How do the larger Nintendo franchises on average fare against the larger Microsoft and Sony exclusives? How about the blockbuster titles like Call of Duty and Watch Dogs?
Neff
Member
It's an unavoidable and -in our current climate of threadbare journalistic impartiality- undesirable fact that Nintendo still needs the press to some degree, despite the success of their Directs. Gaming journalism is a huge, interconnected system, and it's powerful, and it's not going to become irrelevant overnight.
But it cuts both ways. The press can't simply make shit up. If hundreds of thousands of people are going to be going out and buying Wii Us and playing Mario Kart and loving the hell out of it, the press has to acknowledge that. If they don't, then they lose their ability to function as a news outlet, no matter what their agenda. Their readers will realise the discrepancy and call them out on it, if they're foolish enough to let that happen.
I think that the press' haranguing of Nintendo since Wii U's release was less steeped in ire over lack of participation in their methods, and more to do with championing sexier, newer, more marketable consoles in the hope of boosting readership. Crushing the underdog wins you cool points by disassociation. And if the new consoles were getting regular, good software, they probably would have been able to continue to do just that. If you see the press thawing out towards Nintendo in the next few months (particularly if their E3 is good), it'll be because that's where the readers are going to be.
Journalism doesn't always reflect what journalists want to say. It's all about chasing the readers. They have the ability to influence, but only to a point.
But it cuts both ways. The press can't simply make shit up. If hundreds of thousands of people are going to be going out and buying Wii Us and playing Mario Kart and loving the hell out of it, the press has to acknowledge that. If they don't, then they lose their ability to function as a news outlet, no matter what their agenda. Their readers will realise the discrepancy and call them out on it, if they're foolish enough to let that happen.
I think that the press' haranguing of Nintendo since Wii U's release was less steeped in ire over lack of participation in their methods, and more to do with championing sexier, newer, more marketable consoles in the hope of boosting readership. Crushing the underdog wins you cool points by disassociation. And if the new consoles were getting regular, good software, they probably would have been able to continue to do just that. If you see the press thawing out towards Nintendo in the next few months (particularly if their E3 is good), it'll be because that's where the readers are going to be.
Journalism doesn't always reflect what journalists want to say. It's all about chasing the readers. They have the ability to influence, but only to a point.
I'm sure they were included for some specific reason, but in general I find Destructoid is pretty favourable toward Nintendo. Chris Carter is their reviews editor now and he's generally a big fan (though he didn't like ALBW for some reason), and if all else fails I'd say Jonathan Holmes is a downright Nintendo fanboy.
It's very difficult to make direct comparisons, because traffic is based on so many different factors: How interesting is the news? How cool is the trailer? How good is the headline? How striking is the image? How fast did the post go up? Did it get on Facebook's trending topics list? Did it get any traction on Reddit? How interested are people in this game right now?
In general, though, I will say that Pokemon tends to resonate with people more than most games. Zelda and Smash Bros are probably on the same level as the other big AAA games (Halo, Watch Dogs, Call of Duty, Battlefield.) People seem to care less about new Mario games these days, probably because Nintendo milked the New Super Mario Bros franchise way too hard.
Also, games that aren't out yet (or have just been released) tend to generate more interest than games that have been out for a while, although there are of course exceptions.
You guys act like I make this stuff up
No, you're not making stuff up.
But for the past year or two, it didn't feel like Nintendo was diversifying. It felt like Nintendo was throwing most of their eggs in the hardcore gamer basket. They had EA on stage at E3 2011 talking about EA sports and Battlefield on the Wii U. They devoted a large portion of their E3 2012 conference to ZombiU. Nintendo devoted a huge chunk of time to Batman Arkham City at their E3 2012 conference. Nintendo focused on Call of Duty at their September 2012 conference. They had Darksiders II, Assassin's Creed 3, Mass Effect 3, and Tekken at launch.
Nintendo might be skewering to children more nowadays, but they were focused on teens and adults pre-Wii U launch.
openrob
Member
"...NintendoÂ’s recent videos are amusing, but they are canned and unnatural..."
What are they on about?!?! Mecha-Reggie is anything but 'canned' and 'unnatural'
How are they even skewering to children now?
"...Nintendo’s recent videos are amusing, but they are canned and unnatural..."
What are they on about?!?! Mecha-Reggie is anything but 'canned' and 'unnatural'
This bit is also weird:
"We’ll cover the digital presentation, of course, just like we do every other Nintendo Direct. But that’s part of the problem. This is just going to be another in a long line of recorded, one-way presentations targeted toward an audience that doesn’t need to be convinced."
Aren't the presentations one way? There's no audience participation. It's just a bunch of talking heads on a stage rather than a screen.
I'm guessing you didn't read Harker's post. It has a link of Iwata saying that Nintendo needs to do a better job targeting children.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=760049
I'm dying right now. Holy shit my sides haha!
Nintendo CARES about the press. They need the press in order to spread information to channels that they can't otherwise reach. The problem is that the gaming press, like all press, isn't about journalism, it's about profit. There is money in controversy and an interest in preventing content sources from seeking their own information distribution channels.
Nintendo used to play the press' game more like everyone else, but I think the way the press reacted to Wii U was pretty much the last straw for Nintendo. Yes, some inattentive people got confused by whether the Wii U was a controller that magically allowed Wii to play HD games or a console, some people also thought that 360 games looked worse than 360 games, but it's the press' job to report the facts. The way news broke at E3 2011 either the press was extremely incompetent or purposefully playing dumb to create controversy. Nintendo gave them the benefit of the doubt and year later after any reasonable confusion should have dried up and with a more clear presentation the press still acted this way.
In 2013 Nintendo announced intents to split their traditional conference into 3 conferences tailored to 3 specific groups. They would have a pre-recorded Nintendo Direct for fans to get nonstop game footage and information, a live press-conference at their booth where they could give the press hands-on demos of their games and answer their questions directly so that they could make sure nobody was confused, and a live retailer conference for retailers. Nintendo was very clear about what they intended to do. How did the press react? "Nintendo skips E3." "Nintendo not having a conference." Blatant lies. The press clearly seized this change as an opportunity to drum up controversy. Some of the press was also likely very against this change because not getting to stream a traditional conference is a source of traffic revenue being taken away from them. The animosity in Gametrailers' coverage of Nintendo at E3 last year was palpable.
And now in 2014, after E3 2013 should have have cleared up any possible confusion on Nintendo's plans for E3 as if there was any reasonable confusion in how they explained it last year, how does the press react? The same way they did last year. "Nintendo skipping E3." "Nintendo's plans don't include a conference."
Nintendo used to play the press' game more like everyone else, but I think the way the press reacted to Wii U was pretty much the last straw for Nintendo. Yes, some inattentive people got confused by whether the Wii U was a controller that magically allowed Wii to play HD games or a console, some people also thought that 360 games looked worse than 360 games, but it's the press' job to report the facts. The way news broke at E3 2011 either the press was extremely incompetent or purposefully playing dumb to create controversy. Nintendo gave them the benefit of the doubt and year later after any reasonable confusion should have dried up and with a more clear presentation the press still acted this way.
In 2013 Nintendo announced intents to split their traditional conference into 3 conferences tailored to 3 specific groups. They would have a pre-recorded Nintendo Direct for fans to get nonstop game footage and information, a live press-conference at their booth where they could give the press hands-on demos of their games and answer their questions directly so that they could make sure nobody was confused, and a live retailer conference for retailers. Nintendo was very clear about what they intended to do. How did the press react? "Nintendo skips E3." "Nintendo not having a conference." Blatant lies. The press clearly seized this change as an opportunity to drum up controversy. Some of the press was also likely very against this change because not getting to stream a traditional conference is a source of traffic revenue being taken away from them. The animosity in Gametrailers' coverage of Nintendo at E3 last year was palpable.
And now in 2014, after E3 2013 should have have cleared up any possible confusion on Nintendo's plans for E3 as if there was any reasonable confusion in how they explained it last year, how does the press react? The same way they did last year. "Nintendo skipping E3." "Nintendo's plans don't include a conference."
PlumCantaloupe
Member
They've skewed towards children for decades. It's not a secret, or a myth.
Here's Iwata from the last investor Q&A:
bitesnintendog
Member
How do you feel about sites that just do a copy and paste of press releases for their news? Do you feel that its just delivering a neutral news announcement?
So much truth in your post, my friend. It's an entirely ridiculous situation.
Doesn't mean they're skewing totally towards them.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Yup. You're dead on. And that's been taking a lot lf te blame of the wii us failed adoption rate
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Yeah this is a good analysis. Really resonates with how I look at things.
.....this won't happen.
Stop moving the goalposts. You know they skew towards children. Whether it's total is irrelevant. It's their strongest market, and one in which, as is proven by the other posted quote, Iwata says they haven't been targeting enough. He wants to target them even more going forward.
I think this is true, but I still Nintendo should still be proactive with the press to a certain extent.
Exactly.
That's the one thing that really irks me this time; not reporting the actual news, but opening with something different.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
So its possible the wiiU is in this position because of the teen and adult market refusing to buy the console, even when the games they want are on it?
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
If they really wanted said games they would buy the console. Otherwise they didn't want those said games enough. Even moreso if said games are exclusive to that device alone.