-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
#Miiquality | Bringing same-sex relationships to Nintendo's Tomodachi series
- Thread starter Tyeforce
- Start date
Waylon Drums
Member
That's an important distinction to make. It's not like I'm sitting over here outraged that Mario isn't rescuing a prince, but this particular game brings with it a particular set of expectations, setting it apart from the others.
So my child should know that I had to ask someone else to impregnate their mother? What? Maybe I want to decide when that conversation is had. You are pushing too hard on the wrong thing. This is a children's game. Kids are sponges, and conformity is for most in their mind at such a young age, labels in anyway pit them against each other. Can they not have a little time to decide what they are? I've had a kid tell me, they think being gay 'looks cool.' What does that even mean?
Juliet's 8½ Spirits
Banned
the balls on Nintendo
props to them for not falling victim to liberal pressure
props to them for not falling victim to liberal pressure
Fattony12000
Member
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan#Politics_and_law
EDIT
Although, looking again, I suppose you meant that the act of same-sex marriage is illegal in Japan. Indeed, that act is not recognised in Japanese law. I jumped ahead a bit and thought you meant that any act to do with being homosexual (such as being homosexual/being in a homosexual relationship/having homosexual sex) was illegal. In this game, do you have to go through the step of getting married first before having children?
EDIT EDIT
Although, even more interestingly...
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Japan
Change takes time, but we can do things to speed it up. Like I said previously, views on homosexuality changed dramatically in the U.S. thanks to campaigning and awareness. "But lots of old people" isn't a salient excuse or rebuttal.
This is a pretty lame excuse. Real world problems mean we have to restrict fictional games? That hasn't stopped other companies in other media from portraying same-sex relationships. And besides, there's a ton of bizarre stuff that happens in Tomodachi Life. Realism is no concern here.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Juliet's 8½ Spirits;110988700 said:
"Whimsical and magical" is now a baller conservative excuse?
I thought we were talking more about Nintendo taking a stance (in that particular conversation of the thread), not their actual products. Aaron's post said it isn't a companies job to make social change. Microsoft and Sony both participated in the It Gets Better campaign, as an example. Google and Apple donated to the no on prop 8 campaign. I'm sure they've all done a lot more (and at least show their support), but I haven't looked up more examples.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Hey now, all-encompassing means inclusion for everyone! No sexual orientation or fetish should be off-limits if we want true miiquality.
Or you know, they could just get rid of marriage altogether.
Waylon Drums
Member
You're the parent. It's your responsibility to choose what your child plays and how you explain things to your child. That has nothing to do with me and I don't care how you handle it. If you don't want your kid to know anything about the existence of surrogacy, you're going to have a tough time REGARDLESS of whether it's included in this game. Surrogacy is a positive thing and I'd actually be really proud of Nintendo for including it.
lol this is so ridiculous. We have the capacity to be upset and hurt by more than one thing at once, you know.
Maybe the kid just thinks gay people are cool? Is that so wrong?
Waylon Drums
Member
You're linking orientation with fetishes now?
Hardy har. You did this jokey "why not include paraphilia for true equality hurr" shit in the last thread about this and it's about as relevant as it was before.
Owlowiscious
Member
Ok, let's assume that the game has a _Friendship variable, and a _Family binary (True/false) and gender binary (Male/Female).
Currently, let's guess that
if _Friendship > 95 AND !_Family (not family) AND name1._Gender != name2._Gender (they aren't the same gender)
means they can have a _Relationship = no/possible/true
How can you program in LGBT?
You can add _Orientation variable (l, g, B, T, C, b, t, c = lesbian, gay, bi female, t female, cis female, bi male, t male, cis male)
then you can make the new equation be
if _Friendship > 95 AND !_Family (not family) AND ( (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = l ) or (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = B ) or (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = C ) or (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = T ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = g ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = b ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = c ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = t ) etc for all possible relation ships)
then relationship possible
then during the baby scene if _Gender is equal or _Orient is T or t, then play a different scene.
Then in the character creation screen, add the area to input _Orient
Then in status screens, add the area to display _Orient
Adding a new variable to the base of a character, as well as design changes to the display are what I think is too much to program in for a current game localization. Most localization changes are changes to text and textures, while keeping the same sturcture of the engine code.
Currently, let's guess that
if _Friendship > 95 AND !_Family (not family) AND name1._Gender != name2._Gender (they aren't the same gender)
means they can have a _Relationship = no/possible/true
How can you program in LGBT?
You can add _Orientation variable (l, g, B, T, C, b, t, c = lesbian, gay, bi female, t female, cis female, bi male, t male, cis male)
then you can make the new equation be
if _Friendship > 95 AND !_Family (not family) AND ( (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = l ) or (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = B ) or (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = C ) or (IF n1._Orient = l AND n2._Orient = T ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = g ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = b ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = c ) or (IF n1._Orient = g AND n2._Orient = t ) etc for all possible relation ships)
then relationship possible
then during the baby scene if _Gender is equal or _Orient is T or t, then play a different scene.
Then in the character creation screen, add the area to input _Orient
Then in status screens, add the area to display _Orient
Adding a new variable to the base of a character, as well as design changes to the display are what I think is too much to program in for a current game localization. Most localization changes are changes to text and textures, while keeping the same sturcture of the engine code.
But that's the thing, none of those do anything that would upset the 'status quo' so pointing to them is distracts from the real issue, which is that the world still has problems with this and corporations are only doing what they have to to get your money. Nintendo putting a patch in their game, that wouldn't have seen any kind of bump if it had had them in from the beginning, is doing nothing but adding more fuel to the fire, and i'm sure they are aware of that.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
I'm not sure how it's irrelevant. There are a lot more groups than just straight and LBGTQ. If you want to argue their representation is a more fundamental issue with society and doesn't belong in a discussion about video games, well then that's not much different than the detractors of this issue in the first place. The only difference is visibility, but it doesn't change the fact it all falls under the same discussion umbrella.
That's why I think removing marriage is the right call.
Probably not wisest to bring up fetish lifestyles (and compare them to sexualities) if you want to be taken seriously though.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Waylon Drums
Member
You specifically use necrophilia as an example. Tell me, how can a corpse give consent?
It's a shame you're in a thread about same-sex relationships and not in a thread where we talk about about whatever the hell you keep poorly attempting to justify.
"Paraphilia and necrophilia should be included in Tomodachi Life on principle" sounds like a humdinger of a thread. I'm sure it'll go great.
So what you're saying is I have a choice on what my kid plays. That means you that choice to not buy a children's game and force your views on it.
They specifally said, "I think being gay looks cool." Which from a kid means aesthetically, almost to the point of status. It means that being gay is being romanticized. There's a difference between, "i'm gonna get a wife" and I'm gonna be straight."
Corporations giving to charities is upsetting the status quo? That's just good publicity.
Fattony12000
Member
His eyes said no, his bones said yes.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
"Nobody should bitch about social issues because distracts about the real issue... THE CORPS."
cosmicblizzard
Banned
That was mostly a joke.
The point of my comment was that asking for representation should not be limited to the most common groups, which taking into account how some of the comments in this thread are phrased, are all that exist. It was a knock against them, not this cause which I fully support.
But yes, it is irrelevant as far as this cause is concerned, and so I'll stop talking about.
I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Companies and the people they employ showing their support for bullied LGBT youth and equal rights most definitely affect the status quo. You can say the companies' intentions were for positive publicity all you want, but that doesn't mean the actions have no impact.
You should finish reading what I wrote:
Yes they employ LGBT people, so they have to do this. It's called being smart. Why would a corporation ever care more about you than you are worth to them? I'm just being realistic about it. I don't even watch TV, outside of a few Netflix shows, because I know that they aren't pushing values I care about. A corporation giving to a charity is changing nothing how people feel about the LGBT community.
Waylon Drums
Member
Who here has argued that we don't have a choice with regard to playing the game? Your statement can also be turned on you: you have a choice to not buy a game for your child rather than force your parental responsibility onto a video game company.
I understand why a lot of people are disappointed but I don't think boycotting the game is the best way to make change.
If this game sells poorly, Nintendo will attribute the main cause to it being a niche Japanese game in the US which means we would get less localizations in the future.
However, the mii creation does not restrict features to gender. You're free to make a "female" mii with a beard. The only difference between male/female miis are the pants. I'm just going to take advantage of that and do my romancing that way.
However, we should continue to write to Nintendo to know that there is an interest in same-sex relationships so we can hopefully get them in the future.
If this game sells poorly, Nintendo will attribute the main cause to it being a niche Japanese game in the US which means we would get less localizations in the future.
However, the mii creation does not restrict features to gender. You're free to make a "female" mii with a beard. The only difference between male/female miis are the pants. I'm just going to take advantage of that and do my romancing that way.
However, we should continue to write to Nintendo to know that there is an interest in same-sex relationships so we can hopefully get them in the future.
badcrumble
Member
People aren't obligated to buy the game if it doesn't include them.
I feel like your argument is highly reminiscent of people who complain about campaigns about ending hunger in a specific region instead of the world. Sometimes a movement benefits greatly from having focus and clear cut objectives.
Mordacious
Banned
Hard to believe someone actually thinks old people dying off so the "liberal young" can replace them is a "helpful thing". Not realizing that quite a few people who may have started out as activist or progressive in their youth tend to become more conservative with age as they as gain life experience, wisdom, etc.
True, there is also the opposite. My father started out as a Reagan Conservative in his youth and has now become for the most part a socialist who listens to NPR. However, I don't think it can be argued that the opposite transition is much more common. So saying that old people dying off is helpful and will therefore result in everyone becoming similar in their liberal political views is just a a little bit naive, and I daresay offensive to older folks. Young people never seem to think their views might change as they age, I guess. I wonder if my father also thought he'd stay conservative.
Sorry, this is a little off topic, but this particular post bothered me.
If the boycott is loud enough nintendo should be able to connect the dots as to why there game sold poorly and nothing is a better motivator than losing money.
I have an axe to grind with corporations and western capitalism to be sure but nuance is key here as you illustrated. While the corporation's actions are not totally altruistic, the action and impact is a net positive for social change and responsibility. It's a hard bargain to accept the insincerity and cynicism sometimes but that's how it cuts in the first-world. It's about accepting the hard bargain that exists and fighting the shit that motivates it.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Huh, never thought about it that way. Guess recently reading about discrimination against the asexual community made me think it was relevant somehow.
I apologize for that.
I never said that anyone was obligated to buy the game but I don't think a boycott would work well. Corporate would still dismiss the low sales due to its niche status.
No one is mobilizing a boycott. The OP is not mobilizing a boycott. People are free to buy or skip the game as they please.
Please point to children's game that are focused on the issue of gender, that 'allow" LGBT relationships. When someone goes looking for a children's game, they shouldn't have to expect to explain anything that's not a math problem.
As the game exists in the form it does, unless you can explain otherwise, that retort doesn't make sense.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
So the problem of complaining about it is?
Or there is a problem that a Corp does something positive even for cynical reasons? (because politics more often than not work in that way)
"Think of the children"? It's too hard for them to understand? That's really your point?
Then that's the corporations fault for their inability to understand their consumer.
badcrumble
Member
Hahaha @ the life experience/wisdom thing
But yeah, it's wrong to want all old people to die off just because *some* of them have awful views. Better to make change happen regardless of what they want, anyway, instead of waiting for them to go away or something.
InsaneZero
Member
The caveat of recognizing same-sex marriages from other legal authorities can't really apply here when the focus is on the domestic (as in within Japan) situation.
My personal opinion on the matter would be to recognize that Nintendo is in a rough position for this iteration of Tomodachi Life, but that their response is pretty terrible regardless. I would hope that in a future iteration (should it be designed with the intent to localize it later), they would acknowledge these relationships and treat them in the same manner as hetero relationships. Even if it's not supposed to be a life simulator and more like a comedy skit, that doesn't necessarily stop them from introducing actors and situations that more people can relate to.
As a side note, there isn't anything wrong with people boycotting this game and Nintendo products in general if they find them offensive. Regardless of actual business realities of this franchise, nobody should impose what they want on other people regardless of what other people think and believe.