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Measles hits 20 year high in US, 'driven by unvaccinated people'
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echoshifting
Banned
Just another devil's advocate with back-pedalling built into his first post.
wow
Oh, okay.
OnionPowder
Member
Maybe the anti-vaccination people are just shills for the feds trying to get people to think vaccinations are necessary. Then we get people dying from lack of vaccinations and it becomes mandated by law.
Then the feds start putting nanomachines in the vaccinations to control the public. It's all a big scheme to control the people.
j_k_redtail
Member
I wonder what percentage of the 20% are unvaccinated people who declined to disclose their status.
beato_angelico
Member
bloody idiots. it should be illegal.
My sister-in-law has sort of taken part in this movement. Only after my brother was close to dying from swine flu, has she started to doubt her convictions regarding western medicine.
She has refused to vaccinate my nephew who is a toddler. It's been nasty for our family, because the local child care worker has been on a collision course with her and we try to support our own family members of course. These sentiments tend to originate from Infowars (and similar sites) and have gained a foothold even in Finland. It was just recently reported how 70 children in one Finnish town were exposed to measles, because of this anti-vaccination movement
She has refused to vaccinate my nephew who is a toddler. It's been nasty for our family, because the local child care worker has been on a collision course with her and we try to support our own family members of course. These sentiments tend to originate from Infowars (and similar sites) and have gained a foothold even in Finland. It was just recently reported how 70 children in one Finnish town were exposed to measles, because of this anti-vaccination movement
I can understand people being wary of new ones but tried and tested ones, your being a bit silly and putting yourself and others at risk not taking them.
New ones would no doubt be for shit hits the fan moments or specific deceases like breast cancer which is a fair decision.
They stopped smallpox vaccination when the number of vaccine related illnesses overtook the number of naturally occurring cases.
entremet
Member
Anti intellectualism is celebrated in America.
In the case of smallpox, we waited about 22 years, although the range of vaccination began dropping once there were no more cases in the U.S.
Polio in the U.S. ceased to exist in the late fifties, but we still vaccinate for it, because we never wiped it out world-wide.
The short answer is that it depends on the disease, whether it's been eradicated locally or globally, and what the risks of it recurring are.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
People don't apply logic to things like their children's health. Its easy for fearful parents to get whipped into a frenzy. Also a lot of the things we get vaccinated for are not diseases parents of today have seen with their own eyes, so its easy to believe its not worth the risk if you're so swayed.
Got to see this kind of thing first hand with an ex-gf's brother. A devoted Alex Jones listener.
This shit is prevalent.
The only way it seems for the anti-vaccination movement to go away is for something like polio to come back, and see how utterly debilitating and scarring it is for it to sink in why we have vaccines.
Its sad that the only way to get through to people will be to watch children be permanently affected by something like polio. (which is a real possibility of returning in force)
This isn't just an American issue. In Pakistan UN health workers were killed, because the local population believed there was a conspiracy to decrease population numbers with poisonous vaccinations that cause diseases.
"The government is trying to kill you, what are they putting in the vaccines? INFOWARS" One has to take it as a joke when it's written on some toilet wall but people do believe that.
Brian Griffin
Member
The fact that a woman who used to do fart jokes on MTV is now convincing people to enable the 100% preventable deaths of their children and other children is amazing.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
whatever is safe to use. our goal should be to wipe out whatever diseases we can
we do it with animals all the time. we're great at it.
terrisus
Member
Indeed, especially when you have people saying stuff like:
My sister in law once half-jokingly tried to broach this subject. To make matters short she never did so again. I'm prepared to go to extreme measures to fight this bullshit. I made perfectly clear that I'll fucking sue, I'll hound them, I'll fucking have their kids taken away from them. I don't give a shit if they like me afterwards.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Aren't the people who don't get vaccinations the only ones getting measles? How does it transfer to someone vaccinated?
Junior Mint
Member
Is this anti-vaccination stuff only prevalent in the US or something?
Its world wide atm, even in the UK and some parts of Europe
terrisus
Member
entremet
Member
Oh I know about Pakistan, but the US is a first world country, which makes it more embarrassing.
Doesn't Pakistan have religious rule at the local level?
measels and chicken pox aren't the same thing
speculawyer
Member
Fucking idiots. Vaccinate your kids. It is cheap, easy, and safe.
There are going to be babies (pre-vaccination), immune deficient, and old people that die because of these idiots that don't vaccinate. Herd immunity matters.
Science education in this country is terrible. It is a fucking disgrace. Hell, one of our two big political parties has gone into science denial mode on climate change & how female bodies work.
There are going to be babies (pre-vaccination), immune deficient, and old people that die because of these idiots that don't vaccinate. Herd immunity matters.
Science education in this country is terrible. It is a fucking disgrace. Hell, one of our two big political parties has gone into science denial mode on climate change & how female bodies work.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Those people that are too young to be vaccinated would be grouped under the "not vaccinated" group.
The ones you highlighted seems to be the only group adversely affected by this, but anyone who is old enough to be vaccinated but isn't vaccinated getting it isn't exactly tear-jerking to me since they reap what they sow in this case.
Given the resurgence of polio in Africa and South Asia, and the commonness of carrying it without displaying symptoms, I suspect it's only a matter of time before it gets a foothold back in the U.S.
My mom had polio, and still suffers from post-polio syndrome, which sucks.
Of course, if you really want to get the attention of mothers, who primarily decide whether their children are vaccinated or not, you want rubella back. The last rubella epidemic in the sixties caused thousands of still births and left many thousands of children suffering from CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome).
CRS, which my brother was born with, causes deafness, partial or complete blindness, heart malformation, and a host of less common complications ranging from microcephaly to Autism spectrum disorders.
Rubella might get anti-vaccine mom's attention, not that I'd wish that on anyone.
terrisus
Member
Right, and those older people who chose not to be vaccinated can be the ones who give it to children who are too young to have been vaccinated yet.
I know what you're talking about. That episode had Hillary Duff in it! I just don't understand the anti-vaccine movement. Heck I thought you had to have all of those vaccines to even go to school.
The thing is that she's a great mother and takes good care of my nephews but a lot of people are susceptible to alternate media and these things apparently circulate heavily among Christian housewives.
"Do you want some government official poking your baby with a needle? You do know autism can never be cured, brain damage is a horrible thing" - that's the sort of nonsense they spread to mothers across the world..
This was actually pretty common for chicken pox a few decades ago, particularly in multiple children households. Because taking care of a kid with chicken pox is a pain in the ass, parents wanted all of their kids to get it at the same time, since having it provides a level of immunization from getting it later.
I don't know if anyone still does this, but it used to be very common.
before there was a vaccine parents would often make their kids to chickenpox "parties" I would hope with the vaccine that practice isn't around anymore
backflip10019
Member
Herd immunity.
Think of it this way. Imagine that being vaccinated reduces your chance of getting infected from contact with an infected person to 1%. And that if you haven't been vaccinated, your chance of getting infected from contact with an infected person is 50%. (These numbers are completely made up out of thin air, to be clear.)
Ok, now imagine that an infected person is introduced into the population. If the population is fully vaccinated, then for every hundred people the infected person comes into contact with, one of those people gets infected (and goes on to infect one of every hundred people they come into contact with, etc). As an individual in this population, this isn't an enormous issue because you aren't likely to come into contact with all that many infected people.
But what if, say, a fifth of the population don't vaccinate because zomg autism. Now for every hundred people the infected person comes into contact with, eleven are infected. And those people go on to infect eleven of every hundred people they come into contact with. (Actually the problem is likely worse because the unvaccinated probably cluster in some manner, which makes outright outbreaks that much more likely). Suddenly, the risk to you as a vaccinated individual is much higher than it was before. You are likely to come into personal contact with more infected individuals, which puts you at greater risk of infection.
I hope this makes the problem clearer. People who don't vaccinate don't only put themselves and their children at risk. They put all of us at risk by compromising the power of our herd immunity.
Yes people dont understand that by not vaccinating, they are endangering even the people that do vaccinate and transmit the disease to our most vulnerable populations.
And the larger the % of non vaccinated get, the higher chance of something really bad like a mutation that renders the vaccination worthless can occur, and then the entire population is then at risk instead of just the unvaccinated.
This is particularly dangerous for places like schools where children are forced to interact enmass and herd immunity is vitally important to keep things from spread at all.
Sun Bather
Member
At least they don't have autism.
Holy shit this is true? Damn, I'm glad I never got the chicken pox despite being dangerously close to a kid who had them WHO WAS IN A THEME PARK ON A LARGE ASS LINE with like hundreds of other children waiting to get on a roller coaster.
Even as a kid I knew that was fucked up that he was allowed to go despite being covered in dots and scratching furiously.
Getting chicken pox once means you are liable to get Shingles when you get older....which hurts like a bitch, which is why its important to get vaccinated. Also alot of childhood diseases are much more dangerous as you get older.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Ok that makes more sense and accounts for the 10% number where people get measles but are vaccinated.
i had them, they didn't have the vaccine until i was older. They weren't a big deal and are much better to get younger then older, but they are much better to not have at all, because once you have had the chickenpox you can get shingles when you are older, and that shits no joke
You're now at risk for subacute sclerosing panencephalitis. No,seriously.
This disease takes lives. It has an effective preventive strategy Outrage is the only proper response to its current resurgence.
Marty Chinn
Member
To be fair, the argument they use is not wanting to needlessly inject their kids with things. There's a ton of vaccines now that they try to get you to do, and it almost comes off as overwhelming to be pumping your brand new baby full of things. I don't agree with it, but I can sort of see the angle they're coming from.
To give some more background into that thinking, as a parent now, it's crazy how in this day and age, the medical community still can't figure out how to raise a baby. I had a kid in mid 2011 and then a kid in late 2013. It was shocking to find out things that were recommended in 2011 where no longer recommended and in some cases a complete 180. So the fact that the recommendations on what you should do to keep your kid healthy is constantly changing despite thousands of years of babies existing and how quickly they change their mind on what you should do, I can sort of understand how some people might not be so trusting on the latest thing thrown at them. Especially when it comes off with the attitude, you have to take this or else you're a bad parent.
Again, I don't agree with it and vaccinated both of my kids, but I can understand why someone might not feel comfortable with it.
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