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[MagicWithEarvin]

MOD ABUSE: You might want to read this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116161610&postcount=603 before commenting, as there appears to be a ban monster in the thread, and only this post can innoculate you.

Kotaku: Ubisoft In Trouble Over Comments About Female Characters

Speaking in an interview with Polygon, Alex Hutchinson, the game's director, said that the developers were "inches away" from allowing players to choose between a man or woman as a co-op buddy in the upcoming shooter's multiplayer.

What stopped them? Hutchinson said it was "purely a workload issue." The team didn't have a "female reader for the character" at its disposal, nor did it have "all the animations in place."

That's interesting... let's see what Naughty Dog animator, Jonathan Cooper has to say about this:

And a keen observation from lead animator at 5thCell, Tim Borrelli:

Other responses caught by GamesIndustry.Biz:

Please discuss this matter as civil as possible so that it doesn't get locked by ModBot.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Dark Souls shows you can use the same animations for male + female and it works fine.

It's s shitty excuse, and all of Ubisofts stuff seems to have a terrible attitude.

 

[dab0ne]

It is what it is. It sucks but they're not in the game. If no females prevents you from not playing the game then play a game that has females. I've never looked at a game and said "No Doods!?!?!? Fuck it, I'm out!! I've also never said "there's girls!?!? I'm out". Seems like it's getting out of hand tbh.

 

[twobear]

It's worth pointing out that 'Naughty Dog animator Jonathan Cooper' is actually also 'Assassins Creed III animator Jonathan Cooper'.

 

[GeoGonzo]

I'm really happy they got called out on it. It's probably too late for Ubisoft to reconsider, but hopefully this reaction from so many people will give them some insight into how important this issue can be (as far as videogame world issues go).

 

[kadotsu]

If they only had an animation library that was specifically for a female MC this all wouldn't have happened.

...whoops!

 

[KJRS_1993]

I can kind of see Ubisofts point. (but i don't agree with it)

I'm not a motion capture expert at all, but wouldn't you need to motion capture a female actor as well as a male actor, to ensure you have the correct body proportions, so the women actually look like women? Or can that sort of thing be added from a male mocap?

I suppose if the protagonist was female (which would have been cool) then this wouldn't have been an issue I suppose, but this is somebody elses story on their own characters to make I guess.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Ubisoft really brought this on themselves.

This wouldn't be as big a controversy if they had just been diplomatic about their response instead of literally just saying "But women worked on this game and it's going to be good! Look, minorities!".

 

[Foshy]

Ubisoft is spewing bullshit. Other than What people already said, they could even re-use and finetune the animations of Aveline in Liberation if they didn't want to build them from scratch.

 

[Karu]

I've never looked at a game and said "No Doods!?!?!? Fuck it, I'm out!!

This line of argumentation just doesn't work, if you are "on the other side", where everything is fine.

 

[Spy]

I don 't see what the big deal is. It's their game and if they don't feel female characters would be suited for the campaign, that should be their choice.

If there was an all female cast, would people be complaining?

 

[Super Stardust]

If they only had an animation library that was specifically for a female MC this all wouldn't have happened.

...whoops!

Haha

 

[JimmyRustler]

Didn't we already have an AC with a female lead? I don't really see the problem here.

 

[lochnesssnowman]

Beaten.

 

[Hasney]

The animation excuse is pretty funny. I've see both men and women walk all sorts of ways so using the same animation for both wouldn't be an issue.

Not all female characters need that sultry, ass-shaking walk that becomes so prevalent in a lot of games. I'd even go as far to say that if you make that animation available, let me add it to the male characters as well.

Just have a convincing HUMAN walk and have it for both genders. How is that hard?

I don 't see what the big deal is. It's their game and if they don't feel female characters would be suited for the campaign, that should be their choice.

If there was an all female cast, would people be complaining?

I personally feel that if you've got a set character for the story, I'm not bothered either way. But if there's a design your own character and customization, there's no reason not to add the option.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

It's worth pointing out that 'Naughty Dog animator Jonathan Cooper' is actually also 'Assassins Creed III animator Jonathan Cooper'.

Did he have a different stance before?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Developers should call out Ubisoft on their stance regarding playable demos.

 

[Aquamarine]

Maybe with 900 more staff working on the game, Ubisoft might just be able to have enough staff members then to handle playable female characters.

 

[benny_a]

I don 't see what the big deal is. It's their game and if they don't feel female characters would be suited for the campaign, that should be their choice.

If there was an all female cast, would people be complaining?

I think people are mostly calling them out for their misleading statements that they've made.

Ubisoft should've mentioned other reasons for it, because animations clearly are quite weak given their history on AC:Lib.
I don't even mean that they have them already done, because Unity might be all new and shit but that was originally a Vita title so its budget can't compare to a mainline entry.

 

[V_Ben]

Did he have a different stance before?

No, but if anybody is qualified to make a statement on this, it's HIM.

 

[boi]

I doubt it costs only two days to implement female characters. Every developer will have their own vision on how to do this, and the workload will consist of planning, conceptualizing, animating, skinning/texturing, testing etc etc. Not including female characters has nothing to do with Ubisofts ethical stance or something. I don't get the outrage.

 

[twobear]

Did he have a different stance before?

I don't know. He said in a separate tweet that Avelline shared more animation data with Ratonhnhaké:ton than Edward Kenway does, though, for what it's worth.

 

[Vermillion]

To be pedantic... men and women often have different body language.

That said, those differences don't matter here and the other developer quotes are pretty damning.

But let me try to understand this further - does the game have one main character or four? If everyone sees themselves as the same character, then who do we want as a female character - one of the people you see in multiplayer, or the person you see? Finally, does the main character have any story moments?

 

[dosh]

Dark Souls shows you can use the same animations for male + female and it works fine.

It's s shitty excuse, and all of Ubisofts stuff seems to have a terrible attitude.

Just for the sake of argument, Dark Souls have gender-specific animations for running and walking. Your point is still valid though, because that's like 2% of the total number of animations.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

It is what it is. It sucks but they're not in the game. If no females prevents you from not playing the game then play a game that has females. I've never looked at a game and said "No Doods!?!?!? Fuck it, I'm out!! I've also never said "there's girls!?!? I'm out". Seems like it's getting out of hand tbh.

It's not getting out of hand. People are responding to a shit statement from Ubisoft.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Maybe with 900 more staff working on the game, Ubisoft might just be able to have enough staff members then to handle playable female characters.

Place a bow on a regular assassin's head and call it a day.

 

[Exterminieren]

If there was an all female cast, would people be complaining?

Of course they would. Have we already forgotten the Guerilla Games debacle?

 

[2San]

I've never looked at a game and said "No Doods!?!?!? Fuck it, I'm out!! I've also never said "there's girls!?!? I'm out". Seems like it's getting out of hand tbh.

Maybe you don't, but you should have seen some of the FFX-2 threads or the early Bayonetta threads.

 

[Dryk]

I don 't see what the big deal is. It's their game and if they don't feel female characters would be suited for the campaign, that should be their choice.

It would be if that was their reasoning. But one of the biggest developers in the world's official response was that they couldn't be bothered spending resources on it. They deserve all the flak they get for this.

 

[Harlequin]

If they only had an animation library that was specifically for a female MC this all wouldn't have happened.

...whoops!

Well, to be fair, it's likely that these animations wouldn't be easily transferable as I'd assume they're using much more complex rigs in Unity (a PS4/Xbone title) than they did in Liberation (a Vita title). But still, if someone who worked as an animator on AC3 and should thus be very familiar with its animations says that creating a feminine moveset shouldn't take more than two days, then this certainly doesn't seem like a workload issue.

 

[Toski]

It seems Ubisoft didn't plan for having female Assassin's in the game, otherwise Arno wouldn't be the avatar everyone plays as. Considering that, and the fact that competitive MP is also out, makes me believe Ubisoft's reasons. Next game is when they add everything back from last gen.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I don 't see what the big deal is. It's their game and if they don't feel female characters would be suited for the campaign, that should be their choice.

If there was an all female cast, would people be complaining?

Didn't we already have an AC with a female lead? I don't really see the problem here.

The issue is Ubisoft's borderline sexist response to the situation, not that there are no female playables.

And yes, not having a female playable for the entire reason that your main demographic is white men is sexist.

 

[Usobuko]

Aww, how I wished FFXV started with a female protagonist.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Seems on topic:
https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=#womenaretoohardtoanimate&src=hash

You know, if Ubisoft had said, "you can't play as a woman in coop because they're all variants of Arnaud, the protagonist", I'd have accepted that. But to say "it was too much work" just shows how out of touch they are. The Farcry BS doesn't help:
http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/11/5801330/far-cry-4-women-ubisoft
Like... seriously?

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Maybe with 900 more staff working on the game, Ubisoft might just be able to have enough staff members then to handle playable female characters.

900? that many couldn't even make the multiple female characters in Child of Light

 

[BigDug13]

Did he have a different stance before?

I think he's just saying his "educated opinion" goes beyond simply general game knowledge and he's also an "educated opinion" that has first hand knowledge about animation in that specific series.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I think people are mostly calling them out for their misleading statements that they've made.

Ubisoft should've mentioned other reasons for it, because animations clearly are quite weak given their history on AC:Lib.

They probably didn't name other reasons because Rockstar did that already regarding a female lead in GTA and got called out on it anyway.

 

[Shyakugaun]

I say get in line, a Black Assassin is long overdue

Edit: And not as a DLC , Side Character or hell Side Game for that matter lol

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Maybe with 900 more staff working on the game, Ubisoft might just be able to have enough staff members then to handle playable female characters.

Might do it:

450 to crunch to get the game out for its annual deadline
300 to add more useless filler content
100 to leak bits to the press months before the official announcement
48 to "research female movement" online
1 to handle rigging and animation for a token female Assassin
1 to cancel the Wii U version

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

Mass Effect 2 used the male animations for female Shepard and it didn't look that bad.

Edit: I guess that doesn't really matter though as the Ubisoft response is compeletly disingenuous.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

They probably didn't name other reasons because Rockstar did that already regarding a female lead in GTA and got called out on it anyway.

Out of any reason they could have given, they gave the most bullshit.

They could have said anything.

What they chose to say, however, was incredibly insulting to not only women who had a valid complaint, but other game developers as well.

 

[benny_a]

Well, to be fair, it's likely that these animations wouldn't be easily transferable as I'd assume they're using much more complex rigs in Unity (a PS4/Xbone title) than they did in Liberation (a Vita title). But still, if someone who worked as an animator on AC3 and should thus be very familiar with its animations says that creating a feminine moveset shouldn't take more than two days, then this certainly doesn't seem like a workload issue.

To be fair though, he was purely talking about gameplay.

There are other areas that animations touch like cinematics etc.

I do however think this is about the budget. Creating a female character in addition to a male character is quite a bit of additional work unless you don't give a fuck and and have two Chuck Greene's like Dead Rising 2 no matter how silly it looks. (Male voice over female, non-fitting clothes that are stretched over the rig, etc.)

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

I think he's just saying his "educated opinion" goes beyond simply general game knowledge and he's also an "educated opinion" that has first hand knowledge about animation in that specific series.

Ah, alright. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[dab0ne]

I think people are mostly calling them out for their misleading statements that they've made.



Ubisoft should've mentioned other reasons for it, because animations clearly are quite weak given their history on AC:Lib.
I don't even mean that they have them already done, because Unity might be all new and shit but that was originally a Vita title so its budget can't compare to a mainline entry.

It's not getting out of hand. People are responding to a shit statement from Ubisoft.

Now these I agree with. Say why you did it and move on. You can't please evetyone but certainly don't give some bullshit response.

Maybe you don't, but you should have seen some of the FFX-2 threads or the early Bayonetta threads.

I didn't see those threads and I don't think I wanna. Bayo certainly shut up the nay-sayers though. But regardless, there will always be those who won't agree with whatever. Check out game previews and if certain personal issues are gonna prevent you from getting it then don't get it. Too much drama in the games industry for me.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

How hard is it to really say that you didn't want to add female characters in your game because you just didn't want to add them, I don't understand the point of pussyfooting around the issue with these weak justifications.

 

[Hasney]

How hard is it to really say that you didn't want to add female characters in your game because you just didn't want to add them, I don't understand the point of pussyfooting around the issue with these weak justifications.

They honestly believe that an answer like that will make people think "Oh, that's reasonable. We'll drop the issue now.". It's silly, but that is the mind of PR people.

 

[UrbanRats]

Dark Souls shows you can use the same animations for male + female and it works fine.

It's s shitty excuse, and all of Ubisofts stuff seems to have a terrible attitude.

Dark Souls doesn't use the same animations.
But it is a shitty excuse, for a company as huge as Ubisoft.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

They honestly believe that an answer like that will make people think "Oh, that's reasonable. We'll drop the issue now.". It's silly, but that is the mind of PR people.

To be honest, this is them just hoping people's ignorance of how games are made gets them by. It's the same as when people complain about MP being shoehorned into a game that was clearly built for it from the foundation.

 

[Blackthorn]

What's weird is that assassin recruits post-Brotherhood were evenly split in terms of gender, with no skill differences and could join you in battle.

If this does work like Watchdogs where your protagonist is set but other players appear differently, then it makes no sense not to have some of them female, even if you were to justify it from a story perspective.

And if the reason is the four revealed all have prominence in the story, then the blame's on Ubisoft for creating four assassins without considering at least one could be female.

 

[Kevin]

Ubisoft is quickly becoming a company I no longer care about. Mainly because of how broken their PC ports are (also tired of uplay and it's problems). Won't even bother to buy ACIV or Watch Dogs until they reach bargain status.