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[Spring-Loaded]

Share your ideas and potential solutions. Please read the OP

A few things this thread isn't about:

• Ubisoft doesn't have to do this, so there's no need to discuss that they don't have to do this
• This would obviously require more time and money than what's already gone into development of which Ubisoft may not be able/willing to spend, so no need to bring that up because it's been brought up
• Whether this is worth discussion/the effort to put into the game has nothing to do w/this
• Why it's impossible to have female playable characters in the game. It is possible, even with the way the multiplayer is set up.
• The series' science fiction-related lore (panned by fans and non-fans alike) is a not a good reason for not being able to add in female playable assassins. If they can introduce an ancient alien race conspiracy with Apples of Eden or whatever the fuck, they can write a justification for anything, let alone for controlling other avatars during missions.

In past threads on this topic, a lot of users said that Assassin's Creed: Unity's co-op is set up in such a way that including playable female assassins would not be possible without changing its core structure. This thread is in response to that notion, and an attempt to gather ideas on how that playable female assassins could be added in some way that would not require changes to the existing co-op structure.

I just wanted to hear ideas as to how Ubisoft could add female playable characters to the co-op in this game without having to fundamentally change how that co-op works. Here's a summary taken from this GameInformer article. If you're not clear on how the co-op works, read the quoted text (and let me know if any of this is inaccurate):

Here’s how it works. While wandering the world, you regularly enter taverns scattered around Paris. These taverns act as a social hub, and often have merchants from whom you can pick up new equipment. More importantly, if you have any friends currently playing Unity, you’ll see a “ghost” version of that player sitting about in the tavern. This indicates that player is out doing missions in their own instance of the game. You can approach their ghost and request to join their mission. If accepted, you are transitioned to their game and both of you reset to the most recent checkpoint, and continue on from there.

Up to four players can join together in this fashion. In your own game, you’ll always be Arno – the other players will look like random other members of your brotherhood. Lots of missions and activities are available for cooperative play, but there are some story missions that are set aside to be solo only.

My proposed post-going gold/release solution that wouldn't require rebuilding the game from the ground up:

Going by this, it sounds like an option to choose a character when attempting to join another player's game would work. If the game does reset everyone back to the the host's most recent checkpoint, then the co-op isn't completely seamless and would give an opportunity for a such a select screen without breaking the flow of the game any more than the checkpoint-reset would.

Unless there are going to be actions during the co-op that are specific to the main character — which sounds like it won't be possible since every character sees themselves controlling the main character — then this character select wouldn't cause problems with no-name/custom assassin's taking the place of Arno for one of the players.​

Is there anything else that's crucial to the co-op that would be disrupted by such a character select? Are there any other possible ways to add customizable/female playable avatars for Unity co-op?

 

[WaffleTaco]

From what I understand it's like Watch_Dogs, in AC: Unity you are Arno, like in Watch_Dogs you are Aiden.

 

[RedHotChimiChanga]

You just put a female name on an armored assassin that's fully cloaked and then give it a female voice.

 

[Acorn]

Special equality dlc, exclusive to gamestop preorders!

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Well, in your game you're Arno. That's fine.

But does that mean you in someone else's game, or someone else in your game, are a randomized model or are you another Arno? Why not then just have your co-op partners have randomized male/female models?

Just patch that shit in.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well, in your game you're Arno. That's fine.

But does that mean you in someone else's game, or someone else in your game, are a randomized model or are you another Arno? Why not then just have your co-op partners have randomized male/female models?

Just patch that shit in.

All four players are playing as Arno. That's who you always see when you're playing. The other characters in your world just popup as another skin even though they're still playing as Arno.

 

[Doffen]

You just put a female name on an armored assassin that's fully cloaked and then give it a female voice.

What about cutscenes?

Edit: I'm not excusing it, I just think it should be done properly.

 

[buddha0991]

Well, in your game you're Arno. That's fine.

But does that mean you in someone else's game, or someone else in your game, are a randomized model or are you another Arno? Why not then just have your co-op partners have randomized male/female models?

Just patch that shit in.

On everyone's screens, they are Arno and the co-op partners are a random.

This is a breakdown of how this works

PLAYER 1 SYSTEM

Arno
Random
Random
Random

PLAYER 2 SYSTEM

Random
Arno
Random
Random

PLAYER 3 SYSTEM

Random
Random
Arno
Random

PLAYER 4 SYSTEM

Random
Random
Random
Arno

As you can see, its seamless in that it will never load into like a different screen or model to go into MP, and you will always be Arno, everyone is Arno. So even if they added the option to have your random be a female, you will never play as that female. At best, others will see you as female, but you will be playing as Arno.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Well, in your game you're Arno. That's fine.

But does that mean you in someone else's game, or someone else in your game, are a randomized model or are you another Arno? Why not then just have your co-op partners have randomized male/female models?

Just patch that shit in.

When you're co-oping, you are Arno on your screen. The players you're playing with look like slightly modified Arnos. You always see yourself as the Arno.

So even if you had a female skin, only other people would see it. You wouldn't.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

From what I understand it's like Watch_Dogs, in AC: Unity you are Arno, like in Watch_Dogs you are Aiden.

Yes, and yet in Unity — going by what's in that GameInformer article — all players, including the host, are warped to the host's last checkpoint. If that's true, it's not seamless drop-in/drop-out multipalyer like in Watch Dogs or Dark Souls.

The taverns that serve as co-op hubs would be an opportunity to have a character select option that wouldn't interrupt the flow of the rest of the game and that character select could exist during the transition from one's own game to the host's.

Well, in your game you're Arno. That's fine.

But does that mean you in someone else's game, or someone else in your game, are a randomized model or are you another Arno? Why not then just have your co-op partners have randomized male/female models?

Just patch that shit in.

I'm more interested in ways to get playable female characters in. If they go through the trouble of having players' appearance be someone different from Arno, why not have them actually be playable using what I described in the OP?

 

[Gaffercake]

I don't understand what the point of that system would be. If you're always playing as the main character (who's a man), but have the option to choose an avatar for everyone else to see but yourself, then that wouldn't truly feel like playing as a female character.

It's a narrative driven game and it's about Arno's story, it just can't work in this game. (Unless the protagonist was a female to begin with).

Just something I'd like to add, previous AC games had playable female characters in the adversarial multiplayer, it's not like Ubi never included them.

 

[Nirolak]

I think the way to fit both this and the original goal would be a selectable gender for the main character for the main storyline a la an RPG or Halo: Reach.

I'm not sure that's practical for a game releasing in four months, but if they had a time machine it would be the way they could have you always play the lead and also let you play as a female character.

Similarly that's how they would have to handle other notable variations. Like if it took place in ancient Egypt and they weren't comfortable with only having a black lead in a large budget game instead of just DLC and handheld spin-offs, they could have selectable backgrounds that might impact the story a la an RPG as well.

 

[SketchTheArtist]

You're always playing as Arno so the thing is would it make a difference if your teammates are male or female? I wouldn't think so.

Maybe they'll make the next AC game with a female lead but Unity is pretty set in stone I think.

 

[buddha0991]

Yes, and yet in Unity — going by what's in that GameInformer article — all players, including the host, are warped to the host's last checkpoint. If that's true, it's not seamless drop-in/drop-out multipalyer like in Watch Dogs or Dark Souls.

The taverns that serve as co-op hubs would be an opportunity to have a character select option that wouldn't interrupt the flow of the rest of the game and that character select could exist during the transition from one's own game to the host's.



I'm more interested in ways to get playable female characters in. If they go through the trouble of having players' appearance be someone different from Arno, why not have them actually be playable using what I described in the OP?

I think the best they could do without major modifications to their system is let you pick the gender of your random, so you are not playing as a female, but at least other see you as a female.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

On everyone's screens, they are Arno and the co-op partners are a random.

This is a breakdown of how this works

PLAYER 1 SYSTEM

Arno
Random
Random
Random

PLAYER 2 SYSTEM

Random
Arno
Random
Random

PLAYER 3 SYSTEM

Random
Random
Arno
Random

PLAYER 4 SYSTEM

Random
Random
Random
Arno

As you can see, its seamless in that it will never load into like a different screen or model to go into MP, and you will always be Arno, everyone is Arno. So even if they added the option to have your random be a female, you will never play as that female. At best, others will see you as female, but you will be playing as Arno.

When you're co-oping, you are Arno on your screen. The players you're playing with look like slightly modified Arnos. You always see yourself as the Arno.

So even if you had a female skin, only other people would see it. You wouldn't.

The guy you two quoted described exactly that and he understands how that would work, going by what he says in his post.

I don't understand what the point of that system would be. If you're always playing as the main character (who's a man), but have the option to choose an avatar for everyone else to see but yourself, then that wouldn't truly feel like playing as a female character.

That's not what I describe in the OP

I think the best they could do without major modifications to their system is let you pick the gender of your random, so you are not playing as a female, but at least other see you as a female.

How would what I describe affect how the co-op is fundamentally set up?

 

[buddha0991]

How would what I describe affect how the co-op is fundamentally set up?

It's stupid but it would mess up the fundamental Animus lore/story thing of you are going into the past of this one guy. The Animus doesn't let you just hop around from different people like that. The MP animi are made specifically for that, really UBI's own lore is limiting them and its dumb.

What I wanted for this game, and what I thought I was getting on that E3 teaser with a lot of Assassin's was multiple playable characters you could switch from.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think the way to fit both this and the original goal would be a selectable gender for the main character for the main storyline a la an RPG or Halo: Reach.

I don't think that it'd be that easy since UBI switched to using performance capture with AC4. I can't really think of any game that uses that technology and also allows you to character select through the main campaign. Given how it works they'd have to essentially record two full games of dialogue since they'd have to have the actors perform with the female and male leads on stage so that the dialogue isn't stilted.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Barring time and resource, adding female to MP should be a simple thing. Seamless integration is neat, but I think people would happily sacrifice that in favor of more character customization.

The biggest hurdle, I think, is the need to have at least one Arno in every co-op mission. For better or worse, Assassin's Creed takes its story really seriously and I'm sure it dictates that Arno actually experiences these missions, which couldn't happen if everybody's playing as their own customized characters.

Nirolak's solution is of course the most ideal, even though that'd require the most work.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

It's stupid but it would mess up the fundamental Animus lore/story thing of you are going into the past of this one guy. The Animus doesn't let you just hop around from different people like that. The MP animi are made specifically for that, really UBI's own lore is limiting them and its dumb.

What I wanted for this game, and what I thought I was getting on that E3 teaser with a lot of Assassin's was multiple playable characters you could switch from.

Not to belittle the lore of the series, but the stories to this series could be rewritten to accommodate any myriad changes. If someone considers that addition a break in their immersion, the option could be ignored. It doesn't sound like anything that would require the co-op to be rebuilt.

I think the way to fit both this and the original goal would be a selectable gender for the main character for the main storyline a la an RPG or Halo: Reach.

I'm not sure that's practical for a game releasing in four months, but if they had a time machine it would be the way they could have you always play the lead and also let you play as a female character.

Similarly that's how they would have to handle other notable variations. Like if it took place in ancient Egypt and they weren't comfortable with only having a black lead in a large budget game instead of just DLC and handheld spin-offs, they could have selectable backgrounds that might impact the story a la an RPG as well.

Having choices for the main character would be the best bet. This thread is specifically about how to add female playable avatar choices to the co-op of the game in its current state though, not what Ubisoft could've done differently.

The thing is, in all the descriptions I've seen for Unity's co-op, it's not actually seamless. Player's are all reset to the host's last checkpoint, so it isn't like invasions in the Souls games where player's enter another person's game without any pauses or checkpoint reloads.

 

[Nirolak]

I don't think that it'd be that easy since UBI switched to using performance capture with AC4. I can't really think of any game that uses that technology and also allows you to character select through the main campaign. Given how it works they'd have to essentially record two full games of dialogue since they'd have to have the actors perform with the female and male leads on stage so that the dialogue isn't stilted.

It would definitely be expensive, yes.

This is actually why I assume they didn't ever commit to having any playable female Assassin's Creed main characters in the future because I'm not sure they ever intend to again since supporting options is notably costly and they probably have zero interest in this kind of risk financially by only having a female lead.

 

[Nirolak]

Having choices for the main character would be the best bet. This thread is specifically about how to add female playable avatar choices to the co-op of the game in its current state though, not what Ubisoft could've done differently.

The thing is, in all the descriptions I've seen for Unity's co-op, it's not actually seamless. Player's are all reset to the host's last checkpoint, so it isn't like invasions in the Souls games where player's enter another person's game without any pauses or checkpoint reloads.

Yes I think if they were willing to remodel the customized gear and animations they could do it like Far Cry 4 handles co-op as you describe.

Obviously they created this conundrum for themselves by requiring everyone to be Arno even in co-op.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Obviously they created this conundrum for themselves by requiring everyone to be Arno even in co-op.

I wonder if that requirement is a result of how much time it's taken them to build the game from scratch? It also seems to be the reason why they had to drop the competitive multiplayer. They decided to focus on building co-op instead of reworking the competitive mode. This is sort of a fresh start for the franchise again. So it's going to be a bit barebones compared to what they're doing by the end of the gen.

 

[Giever]

I think the way to fit both this and the original goal would be a selectable gender for the main character for the main storyline a la an RPG or Halo: Reach.

I'm not sure that's practical for a game releasing in four months, but if they had a time machine it would be the way they could have you always play the lead and also let you play as a female character.

Similarly that's how they would have to handle other notable variations. Like if it took place in ancient Egypt and they weren't comfortable with only having a black lead in a large budget game instead of just DLC and handheld spin-offs, they could have selectable backgrounds that might impact the story a la an RPG as well.

This is pretty much the only answer to the OP that adheres to all of the criteria of what not to talk about. I really can't think of any other way for Ubisoft to introduce a playable female character for the multiplayer without fundamentally changing the way they planned for it to work. With enough time and funds, it is possible for them to change the game to work this way. Obviously, the game would have to be delayed, however.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

On everyone's screens, they are Arno and the co-op partners are a random.

This is a breakdown of how this works

PLAYER 1 SYSTEM

Arno
Random
Random
Random

PLAYER 2 SYSTEM

Random
Arno
Random
Random

PLAYER 3 SYSTEM

Random
Random
Arno
Random

PLAYER 4 SYSTEM

Random
Random
Random
Arno

As you can see, its seamless in that it will never load into like a different screen or model to go into MP, and you will always be Arno, everyone is Arno. So even if they added the option to have your random be a female, you will never play as that female. At best, others will see you as female, but you will be playing as Arno.

That's annoying, I actually didn't like that in Watch Dogs MP. It felt strange and slightly pointless, because it meant you had no control over how you looked on someone else's screens.

 

[sjay1994]

I think the way to fit both this and the original goal would be a selectable gender for the main character for the main storyline a la an RPG or Halo: Reach.

I'm not sure that's practical for a game releasing in four months, but if they had a time machine it would be the way they could have you always play the lead and also let you play as a female character.

Similarly that's how they would have to handle other notable variations. Like if it took place in ancient Egypt and they weren't comfortable with only having a black lead in a large budget game instead of just DLC and handheld spin-offs, they could have selectable backgrounds that might impact the story a la an RPG as well.

I don't think they have a problem with minorities as their leads. Connor was Native American, and AC3 is still ubisofts best selling game. Hell far cry 4 stars an Indian protagonist.

Then again, both games have Alex Hutchinson as a creative director, and he has been recorded as being very interested in using video games to explore different cultures.

 

[DOWN]

Except all the animations are male actor captures OP?

 

[sjay1994]

As for the female character, the problem is that this is Assassins Creed.

There is a lot of narrative baggage, and ubisoft takes their plot seriously. *Yeah go on and make the snarky comment about AC's narrative like you were going to anyways*

It doesn't make sense for you to choose and create a character because you are reliving the lives of someone from the past.

 

[sjay1994]

Yes I think if they were willing to remodel the customized gear and animations they could do it like Far Cry 3 handles co-op as you describe.

Obviously they created this conundrum for themselves by requiring everyone to be Arno even in co-op.

Apparently there is a lot of gear. I can't access it since I am from Canada (Ironic because the game is mostly developed here) but people in the UK are able to get a preview of the customization options in unity, as they can access a create a character like menu for arno where they customize him.

 

[erawsd]

Under the current design it seems like the easiest and, arguably, the most practical "solution" would be to just add female faces/grunts to the random selection. The Assassins appear to wear enough loose clothing and armor that I don't think there is a need for a more feminine figure.

I say "solution" since it really isn't giving people what they want. However, with the current design being what it is, that is probably the best they could do.

 

[sjay1994]

Under the current design it seems like the easiest and, arguably, the most practical "solution" would be to just add female faces/grunts to the random selection. The Assassins appear to wear enough loose clothing and armor that I don't think there is a need for a more feminine figure.

I say "solution" since it really isn't giving people what they want. However, with the current design being what it is, that is probably the best they could do.

But is this what people really want? People want to be a female character. Not seeing a male character when they play, but others see a female.

Honestly, the AC narrative constraints of the animus are the biggest problem here. And ubisoft won't change anything about it. They could have done create a character like a bunch of other games like destiny, sunset overdrive, saints row,etc... but because of the fact this is AC, it can't be done because of their narrative. Its not a great answer, but this is Assassins Creed for better or worse.

Just hope the next game or comet stars a female. They owe us that after not answering who the bloody hell EVE in any of the games post brotherhood.

 

[Nirolak]

I wonder if that requirement is a result of how much time it's taken them to build the game from scratch? It also seems to be the reason why they had to drop the competitive multiplayer. They decided to focus on building co-op instead of reworking the competitive mode. This is sort of a fresh start for the franchise again. So it's going to be a bit barebones compared to what they're doing by the end of the gen.

Apparently there is a lot of gear. I can't access it since I am from Canada (Ironic because the game is mostly developed here) but people in the UK are able to get a preview of the customization options in unity, as they can access a create a character like menu for arno where they customize him.

I'm sure there are actually probably some production issues on the game with what they can and can't get in.

Like I doubt they entirely dropped the naval system on the basis of creative decisions, but rather felt they couldn't make it next-gen in time.

I don't think they have a problem with minorities as their leads. Connor was Native American, and AC3 is still ubisofts best selling game. Hell far cry 4 stars an Indian protagonist.

Then again, both games have Alex Hutchinson as a creative director, and he has been recorded as being very interested in using video games to explore different cultures.

I do think some staff likely have more sway than others in pushing this kind of stuff. I was just trying to think of something else Ubisoft hasn't done for a main protagonist in a game with a $20+ million budget and unless I'm forgetting something, that's what came to mind as sticking out.

 

[Suzushiiro]

I think the way to fit both this and the original goal would be a selectable gender for the main character for the main storyline a la an RPG or Halo: Reach.

I'm not sure that's practical for a game releasing in four months, but if they had a time machine it would be the way they could have you always play the lead and also let you play as a female character.

Similarly that's how they would have to handle other notable variations. Like if it took place in ancient Egypt and they weren't comfortable with only having a black lead in a large budget game instead of just DLC and handheld spin-offs, they could have selectable backgrounds that might impact the story a la an RPG as well.

Keep in mind that Assassin's Creed is about you reliving history through the eyes of a specific person, so being able to choose anything about that person's identity doesn't really make sense. The only way a gender selection would work in an AC game would be if you did it like Tales of Xillia where you choose which of two co-protagonists "you" are. Which would, of course, require completely rewriting the whole story to do it with Unity.

 

[Hexa]

Adding females in co-op doesn't seem too difficult. Just create new models and have them wear super loose clothes so as to match the male model specifications for animation purposes, then just add female voices.

Adding playable characters seems more complicated since despite it being co-op, there is a character that's supposed to be the main character that everyone is supposed to be playing as. Completely changing the co-op system sounds pretty unreasonable. Changing the main male character to female also sounds pretty unreasonable. So I'd say a completely separate female assassin on her own adventures that reuse the assets from Arno's adventure or an MP type co-op mode where you can choose from a long list of characters are the most reasonable ways to accomplish a playable female character. At this point both would have to be DLC however.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

It seems the most Ubisoft can do with Unity, considering the way they've designed the game, is to give people joining someone's co-op game a randomized female model, which the player won't see on their end because everyone plays as Arno.

Ubisoft could do a Freedom Cry like DLC with a female character, but people would probably give them shit for that being a half-assed bandaid solution.

Better off having multiple playable characters in the story for the next AC game.

 

[leadbelly]

Yes, and yet in Unity — going by what's in that GameInformer article — all players, including the host, are warped to the host's last checkpoint. If that's true, it's not seamless drop-in/drop-out multipalyer like in Watch Dogs or Dark Souls.

The taverns that serve as co-op hubs would be an opportunity to have a character select option that wouldn't interrupt the flow of the rest of the game and that character select could exist during the transition from one's own game to the host's.

You're missing one crucial factor here. You notice that a friend is already playing a mission. Who is your friend playing as? Well, obviously it is Arno. My point is, whoever is playing that mission is going to be Arno as they don't have the option to select who they play as. Only people who decide to drop in would have the option.

I guess it isn't seamless in the way people enter your game, but it is seamless in that the multiplayer and singleplayer take place in the same space, as opposed to there being a separate multiplayer that exists outside of the singleplayer campaign.

If the co-op missions have some relevance to the story, which they probably do, then changing the character would obviously be problematic.

 

[ShinMaruku]

In my view I think Ubisoft should have never said stuff and the people still raging about this are raging about the wrong things. Of course they could add female characters. But as they are money grubbing bastards, I say no. I have no faith in their development team. Never did.

 

[erawsd]

But is this what people really want? People want to be a female character. Not seeing a male character when they play, but others see a female.

Honestly, the AC narrative constraints of the animus are the biggest problem here. And ubisoft won't change anything about it. They could have done create a character like a bunch of other games like destiny, sunset overdrive, saints row,etc... but because of the fact this is AC, it can't be done because of their narrative. Its not a great answer, but this is Assassins Creed for better or worse.

Just hope the next game or comet stars a female. They owe us that after not answering who the bloody hell EVE in any of the games post brotherhood.

I think thats the point of the OP, people can't have what they want -- that is understood. The OP is asking whats the most reasonable compromise that allows a female presence in some form.

 

[sjay1994]

I'm sure there are actually probably some production issues on the game with what they can and can't get in.

Like I doubt they entirely dropped the naval system on the basis of creative decisions, but rather felt they couldn't make it next-gen in time.



I do think some staff likely have more sway than others in pushing this kind of stuff. I was just trying to think of something else Ubisoft hasn't done for a main protagonist in a game with a $20+ million budget and unless I'm forgetting something, that's what came to mind as sticking out.

1) Would the naval have an actual use in the french revolution? Besides if the comet rumors are true, naval is being carried over to that.

2) Hutchinsons only work at ubi is AC3 and FC4. He hasn't really had the most glowing record when it comes to games (Army of Two: 40th day and Spore). Also, maybe after what happened with Connor and AC3, some of those risks and efforts they went through might simply not be attempted again. Ubi went out of their way to learn about the Mohawk Culture and got actors with Mohawk heritage to play all the native characters, they even made sure all dialouge between them was in their tounge. However people panned this to a point they complained about the amount of native dialogue. Also AC3 and FC4 probably had/ have budgets exceeding 20 million.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

You're missing one crucial factor here. You notice that a friend is already playing a mission. Who is your friend playing as? Well, obviously it is Arno. My point is, whoever is playing that mission is going to be Arno as they don't have the option to select who they play as. Only people who decide to drop in would have the option.

If people joining the host's game is somehow seamless for host (which doesn't sound like the case with the checkpoint-resetting thing), then playing as a female avatar in co-op would have to be relegated to joining a game. It would be a step up from the current setup as far as character options go.

If the co-op missions have some relevance to the story, which they probably do, then changing the character would obviously be problematic.

All players appear as Arno to themselves. If every player is technically Arno, then what could they each be doing during missions that would break the story? One player can't be the "real" Arno and do Arno-specific tasks during missions if it's as important for the player to appear as Arno in co-op as Ubisoft says it is.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Why can't they just randomize the other players? This confuses me. You always see yourself as Arno, that's fine. Every player does that. It's fine. Why can't you just use the same animations and reskin the other characters?

 

[Nirolak]

1) Would the naval have an actual use in the french revolution? Besides if the comet rumors are true, naval is being carried over to that.

That uses the old engine and assets.

Also AC3 and FC4 probably had/ have budgets exceeding 20 million.

Assuredly. I didn't mean they take zero risks of any sort at that budget level, but that I feel they start toning down notably compared to what they would do below that.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

I think the focus of this issue (spanning 3+ threads now) should be on the next AC game, and how they can find a way to incorporate a more diverse selection of main/playable characters while also allowing the story to continue as living the memories of a departed relative.

A Fallout type system where you answer questions about who youre going to research could solve that in a good way, I think.

Complaining and criticizing Ubisoft about Unity has been done to death and need not be revisited.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Complaining and criticizing Ubisoft about Unity has been done to death and need not be revisited.

Are you perhaps suggesting that this isn't worthy of discussion

 

[T.M. MacReady]

Are you perhaps suggesting that this isn't worthy of discussion

Awesome baited question. I was trying to move the discussion to a place that hadn't already been covered thoroughly in many, many threads about this game already. I'll just leave the thread if you're going to try to frame it as 'thread whining'.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Awesome baited question. I was trying to move the discussion to a place that hadn't already been covered thoroughly in many, many threads about this game already. I'll just leave the thread if you're going to try to frame it as 'thread whining'.

It was just a y/n question

Isn't focusing on possible solutions to this problem with the game's current state (rather than saying Ubisoft should've thought about this earlier) something that hasn't been thoroughly covered in previous threads? And were there any other threads specifically about possible solutions already? I've read through these threads and hav eonly seen a few posts here and there that addresses this, and most of the time people write off the feasibility of adding in female/non-Arno avatars with "animus" or "but everyone plays as Arno."

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

All players appear as Arno to themselves. If every player is technically Arno, then what could they each be doing during missions that would break the story? One player can't be the "real" Arno and do Arno-specific tasks during missions if it's as important for the player to appear as Arno in co-op as Ubisoft says it is.

Well, there'd probably be Arno-specific cutscenes.

 

[leadbelly]

If people joining the host's game is somehow seamless for host (which doesn't sound like the case with the checkpoint-resetting thing), then playing as a female avatar in co-op would have to be relegated to joining a game. It would be a step up from the current setup as far as character options go.

Well, it's not seamless in any AC game then because the moment you die, you will be transported to a checkpoint. It is seamless in that, you could be playing the mission completely in singleplayer, and a couple of mates join you to help you with your mission. I meant if the character select screen takes place at the tavern, then it isn't anything the host can mess with as they are already playing through the mission.

All players appear as Arno to themselves. If every player is technically Arno, then what could they each be doing during missions that would break the story? One player can't be the "real" Arno and do Arno-specific tasks during missions if it's as important for the player to appear as Arno in co-op as Ubisoft says it is.

You are all the "real" Arno though. You view your mates as someone different, and it is the same for everyone else. Obviously there will be an open-ended nature to it rather than having linear set pieces, but that doesn't necessarily mean it no longer has relevance to the story. They seem to be like the assassination missions in the first game. If so then they have relevance to the story, The story probably doesn't pick up until after the mission though. You go to a certain point on the map, and speak to some guy. Remember you could play the whole game in singleplayer. In that sense, I could see how it could play just like any other Assassin's Creed game. You are Arno and remain Arno throughout. You could go through some missions singleplayer and others co-op. If you could change the character for co-op, then you would lose the continuity and consistency of the game world.

In some missions you are Arno, playing the story-driven singleplayer, and then for some arbitrary reason you are now playing as a completely different character that has no relevance to the story, just because you are now in co-op for that particular mission.

I can see how if everyone plays as Arno, then despite the fact you played a mission in co-op, NPCs within the story could still refer to that mission without it being weird. Maybe not when you are playing the mission, but after the mission they certainly could.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think the focus of this issue (spanning 3+ threads now) should be on the next AC game, and how they can find a way to incorporate a more diverse selection of main/playable characters while also allowing the story to continue as living the memories of a departed relative.

Having multiple characters to pick from in the story mode is difficult because they use performance capture. The upside to that tech is that it gives you significantly better animation and voice acting compared to standard mo-capped cutscenes, but the downside is that picking from multiple protagonists will be very time consuming and expensive to do. And obviously any type of character a character isn't even in the discussion.

Now what they could do is make a game where the story revolved around multiple playable characters. So you may start off playing as a male assassin in the story and end it playing as a female assassin.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Well, there'd probably be Arno-specific cutscenes.

But how would those require everyone to be Arno if they don't transition directly from gameplay into cutscene? That can't be how it works either since every player is, technically, Arno.

Well, it's not seamless in any AC game then because the moment you die, you will be transported to a checkpoint. It is seamless in that, you could be playing the mission completely in singleplayer, and a couple of mates join you to help you with your mission.I meant if the character select screen takes place at the tavern, then it isn't anything the host can mess with as they are already playing through the mission.

Yeah, with this specific theoretical implementation of an avatar select, only those joining games would have the option. There would be one Arno and, at most, three no-name characters.

If a character select was presented to the host during the checkpoint-resent, then everyone could choose and they could all be disciples of Arno, or something, similar to the assassins you could send on missions in past games. If no player is Arno, the game could just say that he's watching nearby.

You are all the "real" Arno though. You view your mates as someone different, and it is the same for everyone else. Obviously there will be an open-ended nature to it rather having linear set pieces, but that doesn't necessarily mean it no longer has relevance to the story. They seem to be like the assassination missions in the first game. If so then they have relevance to the story, The story probably doesn't pick up until after the mission though. You go to a certain point on the map, and speak to some guy. Remember you could play the whole game in singleplayer, or specific missions in singleplayer while playing others in multiplayer. In that sense, I could see how it could play just like any other Assassin's Creed game. You are Arno and remain Arno throughout. You could go through some missions singleplayer and others co-op. If you could change the character for co-op, then you would lose the continuity and consistency of the game world.

In some missions you are Arno, playing the story-driven singleplayer, and then for some arbitrary reason you are now playing as a completely different character that has no relevance to the story, just because you are now in co-op for that particular mission.

Is Arno the only assassin in the assassin's guild at this point in time? I understood that there have been and are multiple assassins in this group at any given moment. Wouldn't that help to reinforce that consistency of the game world by directly acknowledging that there are other assassins operating during the French Revolution? How would the gameplay not be compatible with such an approach, and what about the story couldn't accommodate such options?

And again, there can't be anything that occurs during co-op gameplay that requires the player to appear as Arno since every character looks like Arno to themselves, in turn story cutscenes can't transition seamlessly from gameplay to cutscene because of this.

 

[leadbelly]

Is Arno the only assassin in the assassin's guild at this point in time? I understood that there have been and are multiple assassins in this group at any given moment. Wouldn't that help to reinforce that consistency of the game world by directly acknowledging that there are other assassins operating during the French Revolution? How would the gameplay not be compatible with such an approach, and what about the story couldn't accommodate such options?

And again, there can't be anything that occurs during co-op gameplay that requires the player to appear as Arno since every character looks like Arno to themselves, in turn story cutscenes can't transition seamlessly from gameplay to cutscene because of this.

Well, it is only speculation as at this moment, we don't know exactly how it works. If there is a story-driven narrative though, where all missions have relevance to the narrative then, I'm not sure it is an easy thing to accommodate. You could play the game entirely in singleplayer, or play some missions in singleplayer and some in co-op. There could be a varied amount of combinations of which missions you play singleplayer and which you play co-op. Obviously those missions are a large part of the game, so you'd imagine it would be quite hard to accommodate a narrative where not only is the sudden switch of character explained, but also doesn't seem weird that NPCs all vaguely refer to you because the character you are is always changing.