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Kerbal Space Program: Economic Boom |v.25| Strut Your Stuff

Every single time I enter this thread I'm reminded how inadequate my current space program is 0_o. My current achievement is achieving orbit around Kerbin, and that one time doing a near pass of the Mun.

Doing...something?...with a satellite might be fun. I have no idea what exactly, but the prospect of putting something into orbit seems somewhat interesting anyways. Might pave the way for further understanding on how to get a space station up there, for example.

I don't know if this metaphor is relevant to anyone who hasn't skateboarded before, but in skateboarding, the first trick you need to learn is the ollie as virtually every other trick is based on it in some form. So in KSP, you should get super familiar with getting ships, both large and small into 100,000m (100Km) orbit @ 90 degrees heading around Kerbin. This is the "ollie" of KSP in my opinion. It should just be second nature, approximate delta V needed without even using Kerbal Engineer, where to gravity turn, different reference points of if you are too steep or too shallow on your turn, and setting up a nice clean circular orbit ~100Km @ 90 degrees. From here you can easily start adding "tricks" Want to get to the Mun? Piece of cake, you don't even need the maneuver nodes. From a 100Km @ 90 orbit, just wait until the moon begins to rise on the horizon and burn pro grade until you get a Munar intercept path. Want another trick? Practice rendezvous. Getting in to orbit is muscle memory at this point, so you can start to figure out when to launch from KSC in reference to your orbiting target and maximize efficiency on the intercept. Now you can easily repeat a rendezvous and get better at all of the steps required and better understand where you are going wrong since you have the "control" of being able to effortlessly get into a "ollie" orbit. Want to have your rockets land back close to KSC after a mission? You can have your re-entry angles easy to eyeball at 100Km after only a few tries. I have landed on the Mun dozens and dozens of times, but I have probably put objects into a 100Km @ 90 degree orbit, hundreds and hundreds of times.

I think this stems from playing a lot of KSP before maneuver nodes were added to the game, so you had to have some points of reference, but now I realize it was a nice stable repeatable "trick" in which I could expand from and learn new things.
 
There are a couple of interesting mods for satellites, one is the SCANsat one mentioned above, and I've just seen one for a working GPS system as well.

As I said, I've not been farther than Minmus yet. I want to fuel my station but apart from that I have no particular aim.

I can get to the Mun and get science. I've got about 90% of the science from Minmus that's possible without parts or science modules, so I want something a little different. Going to Duna will be that for now.

I want to try at least one of the satellite ones, and another one that just popped up was for a working telescope system as well!

While Squad are making an excellent framework, it's really the communities imagination that's propelling the final direction of the game and keeping so many people interested outside of the stock game and parts.

I'd say your next challenge should be to put a Kerbal on Minmus (it's easier than the Mun) and get a bit of science. So maybe build yourself a probe to go there and then send a manned vessel.

Tonight I'm also going to be playing with the Chatterer mod and the RCS Build Aid mod.
 
So in KSP, you should get super familiar with getting ships, both large and small into 100,000m (100Km) orbit @ 90 degrees heading around Kerbin.

Great analogy with the skateboard.

Question regarding the 90 degree heading - is there a way to maintain a "relative heading" (I'm probably saying this wrong) while orbiting without constantly (and manually) adjusting heading?

Or in other words, I'm in orbit around Kerbin. The nose of my spacecraft is always pointing towards the same heading, regardless of my "state" in orbit around the planet. Is there a way to keep "adjusting" the heading of the spacecraft without having to steer it in another direction (for example, to always keep the spacecraft parallel to Kerbins surface)? Might have missed the point of what you meant by a 90 degree heading.
 
Great analogy with the skateboard.

Question regarding the 90 degree heading - is there a way to maintain a "relative heading" (I'm probably saying this wrong) while orbiting without constantly (and manually) adjusting heading?

Or in other words, I'm in orbit around Kerbin. The nose of my spacecraft is always pointing towards the same heading, regardless of my "state" in orbit around the planet. Is there a way to keep "adjusting" the heading of the spacecraft without having to steer it in another direction (for example, to always keep the spacecraft parallel to Kerbins surface)? Might have missed the point of what you meant by a 90 degree heading.

The 90 degree heading is in reference to your orbit direction. 90 degrees is directly eastern orbit from KSC (which is at the equator of Kerbin) and places you at a nice equatorial orbit heading east, or counter-clockwise around Kerbin. If you took off at made a gravity turn on a 270 degree heading, you would be going west and end up in a clockwise orbit around Kerbin's equator.

Once you are in orbit, the change of direction in your ship is due to your revolving around Kerbin. It actually is pointing in the same direction, it just doesn't feel that way because your navball is in reference to Kerbin. What you want is to face the same way in reference to Kerbin. To keep pointed in a constant heading on your navball, you need RSC or SAS activated with enough reaction wheels to hold your position. You may need RCS and SAS to keep it pointed steady, no matter how many times you revolved around Kerbin. I can't recall exactly, but I definitely keep my space stations oriented in a specific direction so I know which way they are facing when bring vessels in to dock.

Edit: Ok, yeah I was completely off with the SAS and RCS. It is about orienting your ship or station along the normal or anti-normal heading. This accomplishes:
The best way is to point your ship 90 degrees from your pro/retro grade. This won't permanently orient your ship, but the same sides will always face the horizon. It will still rotate on the other axis.

Otherwise you have to make your craft of station rotate exactly once per revolution around kerbin to keep the same heading. However, when you time warp, your ship goes "on rails" and ruins this rotation.
 
There is a mod called persistent momentum which would allow you to maintain the required rotation necessary to remain oriented at all times.

I just put my tanker in orbit in such a way that the docking ports are pointing "up" and "down". So no matter where I encounter it for docking, It's never at some crazy angle.



RCS fuel tanks added successfully. Not got the large part yet and need 300 science to unlock.

First came the module, and with use of the RCS Build aid, I can see that my thrusters are perfectly positioned to not give any rotation when not wanted, making maneuvers much easier. I've got a probe on top and a docking ring on the bottom.
sShWB5U.jpg

Launcher complete with fairing. also complete with some thrust to de-orbit the last stage. The dV reading in Engineer (new version is very nice btw, no parts needed) is misleading as it is counting in that reverse thrust. Rocket had about 4300 m/s dV at ground level, so just about enough for a decent launch. I did add 4 little solar panels for the launch.

A minor miscalculation on my part was nearly catastrophic. After separation from the final stage my probe core was rapidly running out of battery! I thankfully managed to dock with about 0.15 battery remaining. I could then undock the primary core from the end of the tank, and redock my RCS module there where it belongs. Once I have access to the larger RCS parts I'll upgrade. I did find with this much RCS thrust I was forced to use the CapsLock fine tune though.
 
So I've had a small hiatus from KSP but got into it again over the past few days.

My Mun base is coming along nicely.

1dtnmoc.jpg


The first part I landed was the 'main' base, but ended up on the side of a crater, so I sent my crane over to grab it and (slowly) take it up the hill. Found a nice, flat, elevated spot up the top and it's really quite pretty!

SJ65asg.jpg

(Initial landing was on the edge of that crater on the left)

So. happy with my progess so far. Planning on landing a couple more habitation modules, maybe another rover, and obviously will have to populate the place with my transfer vehicle (second from left). Total capacity should be 20 Kerbals, or around that.

I've also designed an 'ion bike' for the Mun, Minmus, and other moons of similar size. Uses an ion thruster to hover and RCS to fly around, and it seems to work decently. I'll probably send one of these over as well.

G9qKCTj.jpg
 
Awesome stuff Strata. Love the crane to move around your parts. I have yet to make anything like that. Your second photo with the Kerbin "sun rise" over the Mun is fantastic.
 
Awesome stuff Strata. Love the crane to move around your parts. I have yet to make anything like that. Your second photo with the Kerbin "sun rise" over the Mun is fantastic.

Thanks! You really have to get creative to make a working crane in stock as there are no winches or joints or anything like that. I never thought it was possible before, so I ended up building a skycrane with wheels. Didn't end up ever using it though.

Mine uses the elasticity of docking ports as a rubber band of sorts, with an engine to push it down. Here's it in action:
http://gfycat.com/FearfulCommonBedlingtonterrier

Here's one from another player that shifts the centre of gravity to tilt the entire crane:
http://imgur.com/a/SCq6l

And another (very cool) crane someone built using landing gear as hydraulics:
http://gfycat.com/KeyPortlyDanishswedishfarmdog
 
I have had this game for years, and building stations, getting to the moon etc is no problem. However I have never figured out how to get to other planets. How do you do this?

Also my main problem with this game is building things. The editor is sometimes quite fiddly, and the connections are very weak which can be frustrating when your ship wobbles to pieces after you spent hours making it. Plus the game dies when you have massive stations and ships.
 
I assume you mean how to get to planets outside of "build a tonk rocket"

Use something like this Delta V map as a guide for building your rockets. If you want land on the Mun for instance, you need approx 4500m/s dV to get into LKO, 860m/s dV to get an intercept with the Mun, and a further 210m/s dV to get into a 14km orbit. So for 5600m/s dV ish, you can get from the surface of KErbin to a low orbit over the Mun.

Using the same chart, you'll need about 6000m/s dV to get into orbit around Duna, which you can use aero braking to assist you with.

That's the power required to get there.

As for HOW to get there, Duna is in a wider orbit around Kerbol than Kerbin is. That means you need to speed up to get there from Kerbin. That means burning in such a way from Kerbin orbit to throw you out to Duna.

Just like when you leave the Mun and you burn to escape the moon in the opposite direction of the Muns travel around Kerbin in order to help you fall back to Kerbin.

You can use this site to help work out where Duna needs to be in relation to Kerbin to make the journey.

I've not gone anywhere beyond Minmus yet, but I shall!
 
Awesome thread - I adore KSP. Started playing it a couple of months back and made it as far as a Mun and Minmus landing, but not after many, many aborted attempts.

The worst being when I ended up with a Kerbal stuck on the Mun, with not enough fuel to get home, so I sent up another rocket, with another Kerbal in, but 2 capsules so that I could bring them both home together... Which I then discovered *still* didn't have enough fuel to get back... So I sent off a third rocket, with 3 capsules to bring everyone home safely.

Then I ended up landing in an area which looked close to the stranded astronauts on the overview map, but not quite so close in reality... So I spent about 45 minutes walking my lost Kerbals across the surface of the Mun to rendezvous with the rescue craft.

The massive sigh of relief when everyone made it home safely in the end was like nothing else!
 
So I went to Duna for the first time!

Only a test run and in sandbox mode.

Made a very simple rocket, advanced time until my Phase Angle with Duna was about 45 degrees and then proceeded to launch into orbit. Once there, I punched in a 1050m/s ish dV maneuver and rotated it around my Kerbin orbit until I got an intercept with Duna.

Once burned and on the way, I started to make minor corrections to bring my approach closer. Eventually I got into orbit and then tried a powered landing with my big orange tank and engine only to bugger it up at the last second lol.

Looking forward to a try in my career mode and attempting to get there and back.

 
Thanks! You really have to get creative to make a working crane in stock as there are no winches or joints or anything like that. I never thought it was possible before, so I ended up building a skycrane with wheels. Didn't end up ever using it though.

Mine uses the elasticity of docking ports as a rubber band of sorts, with an engine to push it down. Here's it in action:
http://gfycat.com/FearfulCommonBedlingtonterrier

Here's one from another player that shifts the centre of gravity to tilt the entire crane:
http://imgur.com/a/SCq6l

And another (very cool) crane someone built using landing gear as hydraulics:
http://gfycat.com/KeyPortlyDanishswedishfarmdog

Holy shit, that crane design is brilliant. Those other ones are really clever too.

So I went to Duna for the first time!

Only a test run and in sandbox mode.

Made a very simple rocket, advanced time until my Phase Angle with Duna was about 45 degrees and then proceeded to launch into orbit. Once there, I punched in a 1050m/s ish dV maneuver and rotated it around my Kerbin orbit until I got an intercept with Duna.

Once burned and on the way, I started to make minor corrections to bring my approach closer. Eventually I got into orbit and then tried a powered landing with my big orange tank and engine only to bugger it up at the last second lol.

Looking forward to a try in my career mode and attempting to get there and back.

Good work, I need to do a Duna round trip mission. I have only landed rovers on the surface. All the space crane hype motivated me to get there, but now I need to do it proper and bring back some science! I think I will map Duna with some probes first though.
 
So I went to Duna for the first time!

Only a test run and in sandbox mode.

Made a very simple rocket, advanced time until my Phase Angle with Duna was about 45 degrees and then proceeded to launch into orbit. Once there, I punched in a 1050m/s ish dV maneuver and rotated it around my Kerbin orbit until I got an intercept with Duna.

Once burned and on the way, I started to make minor corrections to bring my approach closer. Eventually I got into orbit and then tried a powered landing with my big orange tank and engine only to bugger it up at the last second lol.

Looking forward to a try in my career mode and attempting to get there and back.

Nice! Very gutsy to attempt a landing on the first try lol

My first try was a tiny probe that ended in polar orbit, and a tiny lander following that.

Only then did I go for an Apollo-style return mission. Really fun to design.

WgWZXM8.jpg
LU2W3uk.jpg
 
KSP needs erector-transporter. Also those gas-thing-effects.
Oh and some heavy-duty XL landing gear that can support big rockets. 4 clusters of three landing legs doesn't look pretty.
 
Was just thinking that. Also, I'd love to be able to manually set night launches only(unless that's already a thing and I've just missed it).

Build rocket, go to KSC, timewarp till night, open launch-pad. Or just wait at the launch-pad till night...

EDIT lol, the stream has 7k+ viewers. I mean, objectively, ain't this the most boring stuff possible? Just watch rocket standing there and kind of smoking.
 
They must have forgot to fix the staging order. I know I do.

It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out how the staging order works :P I kept trying to figure out why the parts seemed to activate in the wrong order. I was trying to count up, rather than down.
 
They forgot the struts.

Pretty sure that isn't an issue with Falcon 9.

You should have seen my prototype "skeleton" for Halo's Pillar of Autumn-like rocket.
Now that thing needed struts... the first test was interesting.
Kind of shame the game doesn't support multi-part connections. Struts allow simulating such but not perfectly.
 
Built a new rover!

rover3-3.jpg


This is my older rover, which was built almost exactly a year ago:
munrover3-2.jpg


Still has room for 5 but with more battery power, a lower centre of gravity, and less fragile solar panels.
 
Fuggen hell. I finally left my comfy and lived-in sandbox and decided to take a look at career mode.

My designs fly well outside the requested parameters for some of the easy one star missions. Dammit, I'll have to craft some really unoptimized Frankenrocket to grab those missions. This is painful. All my previous training, and now I must go against it. Must... start... small... Hrngh. This is really throwing me for a loop.

...

I'd make a terrible engineer.

Requested: Melon baller.
Delivered: Missile with intercontinental precision balling capability. Area of effect and scoop size freely adjustable between Grape and Mun setting. MIRV option.
Budget: Feature appropriate.
 
Fuggen hell. I finally left my comfy and lived-in sandbox and decided to take a look at career mode.

My designs fly well outside the requested parameters for some of the easy one star missions. Dammit, I'll have to craft some really unoptimized Frankenrocket to grab those missions. This is painful. All my previous training, and now I must go against it. Must... start... small... Hrngh. This is really throwing me for a loop.

...

I'd make a terrible engineer.

Requested: Melon baller.
Delivered: Missile with intercontinental precision balling capability. Area of effect and scoop size freely adjustable between Grape and Mun setting. MIRV option.
Budget: Feature appropriate.

I don't bother with part testing unless the pay/science is insane or its from the launch pad. Some of the tests are just nuts.

I build one the other day to test that huge rocket that came with the ARM pack, test between 81 and 88km at between 600m/s and 900m/s. I just bolted a probe core to a medium fuel tank and then that engine at the bottom, and then strapped 12 tiny SRBs to the side at a reduced thrust lol.

My spaceplanes are terrible for docking, I can't seem to get the balance right.

You mean, the RCS on them is a bit wonky? IE, you try and translate left and it rotates a bit?
 
In a little over an hour, at 9:35 GMT, the ESA will rendezvous a satellite with a comet to enter into orbit and study it, it's been in flight for 10 years. If all goes well by November, they'll launch the lander down on the 11th of November.

More than 20 instruments are aboard Rosetta/Philae, named after the Rosetta Stone which helped unlock the Egyptian Hieroglyphs to modern language, which will analyse the surface for a year and try to better understand the origins of life on earth.

To catch up to the comet, Rosetta went through 3 gravitational slingshots around Earth, and 1 around Mars, in order to reach 55,000KPH.

Rosetta at one point was out beyond Jupiter's orbit and so had to be shut down for 31 months to conserve power despite it's large solar array.

You can watch the rendezvous here

Currently between Jupiter and Mars

http://rosetta.esa.int/

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28640787

I love science.
 
Yes, exactly this. I think I need to work on wing placement and weight distribution IOT provide more body surface area for correct RCS positioning.

Go to post 155 and you can see me using the RCS Build Aid mod to solve your problem. It shows how much thrust you'll get, what directions it actually goes in and how each one will affect your ship.

You can use it to help perfectly balance your RCS thrust.

So a rotation shouldn't thrust you in any direction, and a translation shouldn't add any rotation.
 
Got my rover to the Mun! Very stable and happily drives along at 20 m/s. The lower centre of gravity and higher weight (twice as heavy as my old rover) help a lot, I think.

I've been building some more parts for my base over the past few days as well. This is a fairly large habitation module I've called LEHM:

lehm-ii.jpg


And looking at my current main base, it seems like a bit of a mess. I mean, the escape pods are literally strapped to a massive fuel tank.

So naturally I've been building a new one! Still WIP.

munbase2.jpg


It makes a bit more sense IMO. There's an airlock, small living and observation area, power module off to the left, and a fuel tank behind, attached but separate to the base itself.


Go to post 155 and you can see me using the RCS Build Aid mod to solve your problem. It shows how much thrust you'll get, what directions it actually goes in and how each one will affect your ship.

You can use it to help perfectly balance your RCS thrust.

So a rotation shouldn't thrust you in any direction, and a translation shouldn't add any rotation.

I always thought KSP would balance the RCS thrust automatically when SAS was enabled. I guess not :p
 
Very nice designs there. Far more effort than I have! lol

And regarding the RCS, KSP is very literal in it's use of them so that RCS Build Aid is very handy to keep things neat.
 
So I've had a small hiatus from KSP but got into it again over the past few days.

My Mun base is coming along nicely.

1dtnmoc.jpg

That's a nice looking base. Do you have any tips on how you built your crane? I'm trying to do something similar, but I'm having a really hard time getting all the parts to line up correctly or to figure how how to get the clamp ports to work.
 
Some details starting to trickle in about .25. Sounds like it is going to be another awesome update. Really excited to have all the new spaceplane parts. I have really enjoyed playing with spaceplanes more since .24.

Firstly, the update will introduce the Administration Building, a new facility at the space centre that allows players to specialise by choosing from a number of different Strategies. These Strategies will boost certain resources at the expense of others. For example, the Unpaid Internship Program will give you a better science yield while hurting your reputation. Conversely, adopting the Open Source Technologies Initiative will give you a better reputation while decreasing your science rewards.

The update will also overhaul particle and sound effects, so expect improved rocket trails and better sounding explosions.

The Spaceplane Plus mod will become integrated into the main game alongside several new spaceplane parts.

A couple of accessibility improvements will introduce markers on the navball to point towards wayward nodes, so no more spinning your ship around looking for your vector. You'll also be able to transfer Kerbals between parts without having them leave the craft, which means fewer spacewalks around your station. There's also a button new 'maximum thrust' button on the way, hopefully not bound anywhere near the 'cut thrust' key.

Difficulty settings are getting their own bespoke panel, from which you can tweak options to make your missions more or less challenging. The option to revert to the launchpad can be disabled, or your starting funds in career mod can be boosted.

And finally, Squad are hinting at one last, mysterious feature. "You’ll have to wait for this one a bit longer," they write. "If we had our way, we would tell no one about it and just let you guys discover it through gameplay with hilarious results."

The team at Squad anticipates testing on 0.25 to begin soon, and stress wholeheartedly that any of the above plans can change. They are a flexible and unpredictable bunch, like a strutless space station, wibbling away in orbit.
 
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