Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I'd rather pretend Lex never existed at this point.
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Why are Superman games so god damn bad
- Thread starter Phediuk
- Start date
I'd rather pretend Lex never existed at this point.
Moon_frogger
Member
Will google give me his pitch for how this translates into fun gameplay? Can I have that link please?
shaowebb
Member
Setting: Apocalypse/Earth
---on Apocalypse Superman is purposely avoiding flying so as not to draw the attention of the entire planet's army on himself. Gets to Square off with an entire planet of traps, giant war machines, genetic creatures and robots that are all canon fodder to cut loose on.
---on Earth you are slowly uncovering a plot through use of flight, xray vision, and other tools sleeper cells that are setting up for Darkseid to invade Earth. You capture Boomtubes and follow them back to Apocalypse to wage guerilla warfare to try and to find the locations of a Doomsday weapon . Culminates in fight vs Doomsday and then Darkseid.
This way you could use all his powers, visit stuff like the fortress of solitiude, metropolis, meet characters and play the part of Clark kent doing investigative reporting (while secretly using freeze breath/xray vision/and super speed to uncover shit on earth stealth exploration style), and etc etc etc.
Best I can do for ya. Gameplay could be a mix of Metal Gear Rising and other shit I guess. Flight combat is going to need some lockon mechanics and stuff IMO to help the player re-orient on ocassion though since its not on rails and since Superman can hover.
---on Apocalypse Superman is purposely avoiding flying so as not to draw the attention of the entire planet's army on himself. Gets to Square off with an entire planet of traps, giant war machines, genetic creatures and robots that are all canon fodder to cut loose on.
---on Earth you are slowly uncovering a plot through use of flight, xray vision, and other tools sleeper cells that are setting up for Darkseid to invade Earth. You capture Boomtubes and follow them back to Apocalypse to wage guerilla warfare to try and to find the locations of a Doomsday weapon . Culminates in fight vs Doomsday and then Darkseid.
This way you could use all his powers, visit stuff like the fortress of solitiude, metropolis, meet characters and play the part of Clark kent doing investigative reporting (while secretly using freeze breath/xray vision/and super speed to uncover shit on earth stealth exploration style), and etc etc etc.
Best I can do for ya. Gameplay could be a mix of Metal Gear Rising and other shit I guess. Flight combat is going to need some lockon mechanics and stuff IMO to help the player re-orient on ocassion though since its not on rails and since Superman can hover.
PseudoViper
Member
Has any super hero flight like game been any good?
I mean they tried Ironman and that was barely decent.
I'm really curious to know.
I mean they tried Ironman and that was barely decent.
I'm really curious to know.
Moon_frogger
Member
I was responding to a post that said how writers have been pulling off good superman stories for years so the games should just draw from that and everything will work out fine. I agree with you in theory but still not seeing a good pitch for how superman would work as a game character. Really, it isn't impossible but it's clearly no simple task either.
For example, name another successful action based video game with a character more powerful than superman. And don't say saints row iv because nothing In that game even remotely compares to what superman can do
Also the whole 'just take away his powers' solution is stupid. Would you really want to play a superman game where you just walk around as Clark Kent investigating stuff? Cause I wouldn't. I already played la noire and it sucked.
Spring-Loaded
Member
The Incredible: Hulk Ultimate Destruction (PS2/XBox/NGC). Superman doesn't have to be at max power at all times, either through the player switching power-levels in real-time or through contextual power levels (levels indoors won't let the player destroy the floor, fighting humans uses less power than fighting metabeings, Etc.). Hulk is more of any anti-hero in the game than Superman would be, but making environmental destruction something the player wants to avoid while giving them enough tools to realistically do so would be feasible. Not easy, but possible.
Also, check out the Superman Returns game. That let the player fly through the city at high speeds and a lot of Superman's abilities were available. Everythign aside from his abilities was poorly implemented from what I've read, but some ideas were novel (e.g. Metropolis has a health bar instead of Superman).
Moon_frogger
Member
i said name a character remotely comparable in abilities to superman. Hulk can't even fly or move at super speed, 2 of the biggest hurdles in designing a fun superman game. And those are just 2. Hulk doesn't even compare in sheer power to multitudes of other powerful game characters. He's a baby compared to superman. Supes would tear him to shreds without breaking a sweat.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I edited in a mention of the Superman Returns game which lets Superman fly or move at super speed. The demo I played of that was pretty fun as far as movement goes. There's also unreleased The Flash prototype game which would've had the player flying through a city at high speeds. Just search for the vid on Youtube.
Interfectum
Member
He can bounce a bullet off his fucking eyeball. He's a boring character that's way OP for a video game.
Does he fight enemies while flying?
Spring-Loaded
Member
Pretty sure that's possible, yeah. I'd have to look up some footage.
Here's a walkthrough of presumably the entire game.
Moon_frogger
Member
Exactly, the full game itself wasn't fun. Wether that's down to inherent problematic design with superman himself or it being a bad game I can't say. All I'm saying is I haven't seen a fun game with a character who has powers equal or Better than superman. I'm not saying it's impossible. Id love to see it done. The best suggestions I've seen so far would be a Clark kent investigation game or simply taking away supermans powers. I like the suggestion of making it a metroid style game where he slowly regains his powers and eventually takes on braniac. Actually, that's not too far removed from smallville.
Spring-Loaded
Member
You'll need to be able to break down Superman Returns: The Game and figure out what exactly wasn't fun and why. Otherwise, you'll conflate bad design decisions making the game bad with "playing as Superman in a game is bad."
There are better suggestions than those in the thread. Still, nothing anyone says or the examples they provide will make up for your lack of imagination.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
You haven't been keeping up with the Hulk. On the upper anger levels, he's strong enough to hold tectonic plates together while swimming in magma.
First Post.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Moon_frogger
Member
i actually said it could be that superman returns is just a bad game. Then I said it don't think it's impossible to make a good superman game. I said that. In the Post you just quoted. Then I said I liked some of the ideas in the thread, to which you replied by insulting me. Classy! Great posting! Very constructive.
Make it a game where he has to do things like fight city size enemies, throw things into the sun, beat on other super humans, fly great distances quickly, etc. and it could be cool. Honestly a Superman-like game would be easier to do because then you can just ignore canon and set different boundaries and limits around the power set.
Spring-Loaded
Member
All I said was that there are better suggestions for a superman game so far in the thread that don't make compromises. I was also using a general "you" when I said
and was merely suggesting you take a look at the Superman Returns: The Game footage, or play the game proper, to see what works and what doesn't. I assumed you'd be willing to do so since you've responded multiple times in the thread.
Saying you're not using your imagination here isn't an insult, it's just truth. If you can't see how having all of Superman's powers could be fun, and instead only see game designs modeled after pre-existing ones like Metroid as being feasible, then that shows a lack of imagination.
What you do to "limit" Superman and have it be believable.
1, Run a storyline like Emperor Joker where you create an alternate dimension/World where Superman doesn't exist or where everything hurts him. Have Clark affected in the beginning and gradually get his powers back with the help of Mxyzptlk or Dr. Fate or something breaking through to him.
2. Run a story based off the current incarnation. In New 52 Supes is affected by things like explosions and high voltage. He even passes out and strains himself to the point of blood coming out a runaway monorail or whatever it was. He also doesn't fly until later, people are mistrustful of him, etc.
3. Run a Smallville-esque story. In Smallville the Kryptonite affected many of the people giving them powers that affect Clark plus the stuff is everywhere as it's the impact point. Clark also gradually learns his powers but he started with the durability, speed, and strength.
Edit: I personally don't believe he should be limited in any way besides the his actual limitations.
1, Run a storyline like Emperor Joker where you create an alternate dimension/World where Superman doesn't exist or where everything hurts him. Have Clark affected in the beginning and gradually get his powers back with the help of Mxyzptlk or Dr. Fate or something breaking through to him.
2. Run a story based off the current incarnation. In New 52 Supes is affected by things like explosions and high voltage. He even passes out and strains himself to the point of blood coming out a runaway monorail or whatever it was. He also doesn't fly until later, people are mistrustful of him, etc.
3. Run a Smallville-esque story. In Smallville the Kryptonite affected many of the people giving them powers that affect Clark plus the stuff is everywhere as it's the impact point. Clark also gradually learns his powers but he started with the durability, speed, and strength.
Edit: I personally don't believe he should be limited in any way besides the his actual limitations.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
unrelated, but I can't get over the idea of Curtis Mayfield and Stevie Wonder passively-aggressively arguing with each other over Superman games. It amuses me to no end.
Moon_frogger
Member
Ha. I wondered if anybody else noticed that.
Angry Fork
Member
They should have you play as a young kal-el just getting his powers, that way there's an excuse to leave you vulnerable, and as you progress through the game you get new powers. Then the end/post-game is god mode where you can fly around and do anything. Having you start as beast superman from the beginning is going to cripple the canon/and or challenge.
How would you go about making a game where you play as a near invincible super hero good? One game tried to give the city a health bar, but if you truly had access to all of his
superpowers, then the game still shouldn't be hard. Superman is super intelligent, so you can't make a detective game because realistically, he would figure things out before you
did. You can't make a beat 'em up, because he would wreck everything with his god-tier strength. You can't make a racing/maneuvering game, because he can travel near/faster
than the speed of light. Assuming you have access to all of his abilities, almost no video game with him should have any inherent challenge. The only difficulty that could be
introduced to the game is by giving you moral choices, which would always result in Superman picking the boyscout option.
superpowers, then the game still shouldn't be hard. Superman is super intelligent, so you can't make a detective game because realistically, he would figure things out before you
did. You can't make a beat 'em up, because he would wreck everything with his god-tier strength. You can't make a racing/maneuvering game, because he can travel near/faster
than the speed of light. Assuming you have access to all of his abilities, almost no video game with him should have any inherent challenge. The only difficulty that could be
introduced to the game is by giving you moral choices, which would always result in Superman picking the boyscout option.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Even though it's different circumstances, The Batman: Arkham games start out with an authentic Batman right from the start. I remember hearing and/or reading Sefton Hill say that was a priority, so there was never a moment in the games where Batman felt underpowered. It's really easy to fight a group of normal guys in the game without it feeling automated.
It seems like a mistake to go this underpowered route and could just turn people off from the game if they have to wait until hours later to actually get to play as Superman. Of course, if the gameplay is fun, it can consist of anything, it'd just be like Smallville where it's only starring Clark Kent forever. A lot of people have already said Superman isn't quite invincible and cited reasons, and that challenge can come from something other than strictly how much damage he can take.
Sand Superman/Kryptonite Nevermore. A story from the 70s.
The story starts with Kryptonite being rendered harmless but Superman losing 1/3 to 1/2 of his power. In game this brings him down to a lower level and able to be damaged by regular weapons. The drain is caused by the same experiment that got rid of Kryptonite, it created a sand doppleganger of Superman that is leeching his powers. Toss in some of his stronger foes like the Parasite, Metallo, Luther, etc for bosses and you're good to go for a game.
edit: for added drama the clone could drain more power form superman at an unexpected time. This could be used for some scenarios where you have to solve puzzles as Clark to go onto the next section. IIRC, this happened in the arc.
Edit2: Superman has to fight enemies he could previously beat with a hand tied behind his back and struggles to do so. This means super powered foes are huge threats rather than minor threats and players will have to creatively use his powers to win.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Spring-Loaded
Member
Aaaaah lighten up.
He only lacks the light to show the way
Superman: Emperor Joker - http://joker.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor_Joker_(Storyline)
Joker gains the power to change the Universe, shaping it in a way that the Justice League are villains and the villains are the Justice League. Superman is a criminal but starts to realize this World isn't right. You can have the Joker constantly shift the Universes so you go through several Superman Elseworld tales like Speeding Bullets (Superman lands in Gotham and is adopted by the Waynes, raised as Bruce Wayne) and Red Son (Supes lands in Russia and is a weapon for the Soviet Union). You could also just have him shift the Universe to the worst/defining moments in Supes life like bringing Kandor back and his fight with Doomsday.
Superman: Secret Identity - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Secret_Identity
Superman is a comic character. A boy is born with the name "Clark Kent" after Superman. He is the subject of taunts from other children because of his name. One day he wakes up with the powers of Superman and sets out to do good, learning how to use his powers and what it means to be a hero. The story follows his life from his teens to old age.
Up, Up, and Away - http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman:_Up,_Up_and_Away!
A year after Infinite Crisis, Superman has lost his powers. In doing so he has become a better "human": his social life is great, his boss is happy with his work, and he's happy. Eventually his powers start to return and he has to deal with the loss of his average life because, no matter what, he's Superman and the World needs Superman.
EternalDarko
Member
The only way a Superman game will work is if you do it as an origin story and you play through Clark's character as he learns of his powers and how to harness them. Progress through his younger years sll the way to him becoming Superman. Then finish off the game as the fully powered Superman character and end on a high.
Story and character progression should be very important in addition to doing the gameplay right.
Story and character progression should be very important in addition to doing the gameplay right.
immortal-joe
Member
Cheap but effective workaround:
Come up with a story line where some villain does something that affects the Sun's rays, which reduces Superman's strength and abilities.
As you progress through the game, Superman gradually gets get powers back by "restoring" the Sun. The game culminates in him regaining full strength and having a huge final battle of Galactic proportions.
It's very easy to imagine such a concept being shopped around at one point or another.
Honestly, if this was actually executed properly, it would really let you experience how "otherworldly" his strength is, by contrasting it with where you start the game.
Come up with a story line where some villain does something that affects the Sun's rays, which reduces Superman's strength and abilities.
As you progress through the game, Superman gradually gets get powers back by "restoring" the Sun. The game culminates in him regaining full strength and having a huge final battle of Galactic proportions.
It's very easy to imagine such a concept being shopped around at one point or another.
Honestly, if this was actually executed properly, it would really let you experience how "otherworldly" his strength is, by contrasting it with where you start the game.
IrishNinja
Member
i remember liking the Taito arcade one as a kid, but i'd prolly not revisit it...always been curious about the Genesis one though!
for real, Supes is on the list of comic characters yet to get a definitive experience, sadly. spidey, bats, hulk, punisher and a few others i'd argue have, but daredevil & many other greats are still waiting.
for real, Supes is on the list of comic characters yet to get a definitive experience, sadly. spidey, bats, hulk, punisher and a few others i'd argue have, but daredevil & many other greats are still waiting.
Because Superman is like one of those characters a kid would make up when you're outside playing. It's like:
Me: Hey Eddie, I shot you with a missile, you're dead!
Eddie: Nah Uh! I can't be killed by anything made on earth and have unlimited powers!
Me: ...screw you guys, I'm going home!
But, since there are different representations of Superman, I guess a video-game could just create a different arc of who Superman is.
Me: Hey Eddie, I shot you with a missile, you're dead!
Eddie: Nah Uh! I can't be killed by anything made on earth and have unlimited powers!
Me: ...screw you guys, I'm going home!
But, since there are different representations of Superman, I guess a video-game could just create a different arc of who Superman is.
Hey now...
That Superman Arcade Game by Tatio from 1988 or so was pretty cool (from what I remember).
http://youtu.be/6zGqVIWcdlM
Ehhh, then again...
That Superman Arcade Game by Tatio from 1988 or so was pretty cool (from what I remember).
http://youtu.be/6zGqVIWcdlM
Ehhh, then again...
Sorcerer
Member
The Super Man game on Nes was pretty fun in the fact that it played more like an adventure game with puzzles.
Beat it an afternoon on a rental.
Superman on 2600 was okay for its time.
I liked early games that could actually be beaten and have and ending, such as Adventure and Haunted House.
Nobody does Superman right... hes a comic hero from the 1930s that people keep trying to portray in modern times and he simply just dosnt fit. If someone tried to do a superman game or movie based in a time and place he fits then maybe it coukd be interesting. Just maybe though.
KittenMaster
Member
I think one problem is that you can't think small for Superman, as every Superman movie has done. Superman needs to start big and only get bigger and more absurd from there: instead of being pelted with bullets or being hit by a car, being blasted with warheads and being burned by particle accelerated death rays, fighting massive robots and giant alien monsters that can demolish cities and punch Superman with a force that can crush the earth, fist fights with a super villain inside a molten volcano, visiting strange planets with strange enemies. While all of this stuff is by comic standards small change for Superman, the idea is to be absurd enough to get the player to reasonably accept that something could take a bit of health off of Superman's life bar, as well as things that aren't one shotted by him.
That's wrong. It's simply factually incorrect. Several people have done Superman "right", within the last 10 years I can think of at least 6 standalone stories that were great to outstanding and that's not even mentioning the things happening in his main titles. He is done "right" all the time.
Why not? Because of his "overpowered" status despite the fact that most people don't even know the actual limits to his powers and think he bench presses planets and out runs Flash on a daily basis? The people that think his only weakness is Kryptonite and don't know that Red Sun, magic, or psychic all affect him? The same people that love an indestructible, "immortal" killing machine like Wolverine or an unkillable monster like the Hulk?
Why doesn't Superman work? Because he's a "boring" character? Those are the same people that love Captain America despite him and Superman having practically the same "Truth, Justice, American Way, I'm above no one, regular people are equal to me, do what's right not what's easy. jokes around" personality. People are really hypocritical in the characters they like vs. the characters they don't despite them having similar personalities, morals, or what have you.
I'm not calling you out, just using your post to make a point. I honestly get tired of the Superman narrative people throw around without doing the minutest amount of research. They'd rather hold on to some belief that's decades old about Superman rather than pick up a comic or visit a wiki to learn more about the character.
A Superman game can work without limitations on the character. The Superman character is fine in modern day and he works because he's been adjusted since his "moving planet" days just like every other Hero has been adjusted since their ridiculous days.
I always thought there was too much "Superman vs bad guy/weapons" in the games. Superman has to stop disasters, too.
I liked the premise of Superman Returns , although I couldn't stand the game to play through it all. I feel they had the idea, but didn't make a fun enough game. But still, when I think of a fun Superman game, I think of him not only fighting Zod and Braniac and other super-powered baddies, but stopping a train wreck, saving people from drowing when a ship sinks, saving a plane from crashing, stopping a tornado, diverting a river or funneling its water over a raging city fire, etc. Superman would be full-powered from level 1 - but you'd need to learn how to use those powers.
I also think of the pre-crisis comics where he'd travel into the 30th century and battle alongside the Legion of Super-Heroes. That'd be an awesome level.
--------------------------
Considering the history of Superman games I've played ..
Atari 2600 Superman - of course its archaic but once you learn the rules, I think its pretty fun.
Genesis Sunsoft Superman - Superman is very under-powered in this game. A guy running across the roof can kill him. But there are some nice spots , I like the alusions to Superman the Movie where he drills down underground; and the music is about as good as possible without actually using the John Williams theme.
Xbox Superman game - the one where you can use your heat vision and freeze breath battling robots and fires in the city - I couldn't get very far because it got monotonous. Someday.
Xbox Superman Returns - better but I need a long boring couple of nights to get into it. I was almost immediately turned off by the asteroids 1st level. But flying around the city and using super-speed on the streets while rescuing people was good. I would buy the 360 version on the cheap, if I ever saw it again.
I liked the premise of Superman Returns , although I couldn't stand the game to play through it all. I feel they had the idea, but didn't make a fun enough game. But still, when I think of a fun Superman game, I think of him not only fighting Zod and Braniac and other super-powered baddies, but stopping a train wreck, saving people from drowing when a ship sinks, saving a plane from crashing, stopping a tornado, diverting a river or funneling its water over a raging city fire, etc. Superman would be full-powered from level 1 - but you'd need to learn how to use those powers.
I also think of the pre-crisis comics where he'd travel into the 30th century and battle alongside the Legion of Super-Heroes. That'd be an awesome level.
--------------------------
Considering the history of Superman games I've played ..
Atari 2600 Superman - of course its archaic but once you learn the rules, I think its pretty fun.
Genesis Sunsoft Superman - Superman is very under-powered in this game. A guy running across the roof can kill him. But there are some nice spots , I like the alusions to Superman the Movie where he drills down underground; and the music is about as good as possible without actually using the John Williams theme.
Xbox Superman game - the one where you can use your heat vision and freeze breath battling robots and fires in the city - I couldn't get very far because it got monotonous. Someday.
Xbox Superman Returns - better but I need a long boring couple of nights to get into it. I was almost immediately turned off by the asteroids 1st level. But flying around the city and using super-speed on the streets while rescuing people was good. I would buy the 360 version on the cheap, if I ever saw it again.
Another aspect that could be included is young Clark saving people before donning the shield. Stealth mechanics come into play here. Your Game Over's in this scenario isn't death. You have to save someone from some disaster scenario but you have to do it without people seeing your face or even realizing "super powers" were used. If you're spotted, don't save them in time, injure them while trying to save them, or cause too much collateral damage - Game Over > Try Again?
As Superman, forget stealth, and you have to focus on timing, minimal damage and no deaths/injuries.
Pixel Samurai
Member
I want to say that this game wasnt bad?
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
He needs a big enough world to exist in where you could fly at incredible speed for at least a minute or more and then smash through buildings while fighting and all that stuff. Turn everything about any other open world game you've ever seen up to 11 and then inject into it a story that would focus more on the moments that make him more human. You would need excellent writing to go along with EXTREMELY fluid gameplay where getting around felt as fun as fucking stuff up and saving lives/preventing damage was the main focus of the game.
If they could make something along the lines of No Man's Sky but throw Supes in there you could perhaps have some top tier level fights out in space and treat the earth as something like a home base or save point or something like that.
Anything less would feel restrictive. The best part of a superman game should be cruising around the solar system taking in the sights when all of a sudden you hear a whisper coming from your tv. You stop swooshing around for a minute and focus and the camera kind of fades/orients/zooms towards earth and the tiny voice crying "heeeeeelp" shows you that a new mission has started. Stay away from Earth too long and the villains start setting up shop and it gets harder and harder to clear them all out with out almost destroying the cities you are fighting in. Couple this with a desire to explore the cosmos and interact with the GLs or look for remnants of Krypton or whatever and you might just have yourself a universe that you could bang around in as superman without feeling claustrophobic.
If they could make something along the lines of No Man's Sky but throw Supes in there you could perhaps have some top tier level fights out in space and treat the earth as something like a home base or save point or something like that.
Anything less would feel restrictive. The best part of a superman game should be cruising around the solar system taking in the sights when all of a sudden you hear a whisper coming from your tv. You stop swooshing around for a minute and focus and the camera kind of fades/orients/zooms towards earth and the tiny voice crying "heeeeeelp" shows you that a new mission has started. Stay away from Earth too long and the villains start setting up shop and it gets harder and harder to clear them all out with out almost destroying the cities you are fighting in. Couple this with a desire to explore the cosmos and interact with the GLs or look for remnants of Krypton or whatever and you might just have yourself a universe that you could bang around in as superman without feeling claustrophobic.
joecanada
Member
Haha wow how original I've never seen that line in a movie 20 years ago
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I don't mean to be rude BUT you have no idea what you're talking about.
DaSorcerer7
Member
I want to say that this game wasnt bad?
Loved it.
pillowtalk
Member
Maybe a Superboy-Prime game where he kills everyone to achieve his goal. The enemy would be the other supes.
lifeexpectancy
Member
And once again the thread was done after the 1st post, lol.
Can't remember the last great Superman movie I saw. The most recent one was 'ok', approaching 'good', but it certainly wasn't 'great'. To be fair though, the game side of it would be even harder to tackle. I mean how do you do Superman justice, really? The restraints of it being a game preclude any ability to do justice to his near lack of restraints and near limitless abilities. The guy can rewind time by flying really, really fast around the planet for god's sake!
fair dose of hyperbole here, in case you couldn't tell
Considering you are refuting his OPINION, you cannot say it is FACTUALLY anything, because it's a damn opinion in the first place.
Superman has been done every which way. He's been an evil dictator that kills, he's been a normal man, he's been a really powerful hero that has cured cancer, he's been compassionate, he's been remorseless, he's been a dick, he's been overly nice, he's been a lost man trying to find his way, he's been Bruce Wayne, etc. To say "nobody does him right" in 80~ years of comics when they've done everything is wrong. It may be an opinion but an opinion can be proven incorrect. This isn't something like "I like X over Y", that's an opinion that can't be right or wrong. "Nobody does Superman right" can be proven incorrect because, as I said, the man has been everything.
Rather than say "factually wrong" I should've just tried to prove it. So, Atomski, what is Superman done "right" to you and I will link you to a comic where Superman is being done right or very close to it.