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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)

indosmoke

Member
Those 2 small PGR4 gifs are really the only time the game will look good.



No Forza has ever looked better than DC, gifs from ~october last year

*beautiful gifs*

I don't know man, I was at the GC last year, I actually tried DC and it looked nothing like that.
Don't get me wrong, it clearly had a big potential, but it severely lacked polishing and consistency (hence the huge delay, I guess) and that clearly hurt the overall impression I had.

I don't feel like searching the web for 1-year-old impressions, but if I remember well most people/journalists who tried the demo had the same feeling.

It's easy to forget about that when you don't have the chance to try games for yourself, but seeing gifs, webms and off-screen footage <> overall impressions from actual hands-on.


That said, I didn't have the chance to attend GC this year but what I read about people who tried DC is very positive, and that's excellent news.
 

Duxxy3

Member
The sense of speed in DC is insane

2588544-5128095088-25340.gif


love it

They have some of the project gotham people at evolution, right?

Definitely give the graphics edge to Drive Club.
 

indosmoke

Member
They have some of the project gotham people at evolution, right?

Definitely give the graphics edge to Drive Club.

I think the lead designer (or programmer?) of the PGR series joined Evolution a few years ago.
On the other hand several ex-members of Bizarre joined Playground Games (along with former Codies, Reflections and SMS), so technically it's a tie :p
 

amar212

Member
PGR 4 still looks a generation ahead of both DC and FH2. And rather than doing some shitty low detail countryside its rendering photo-realistic cities.
cd82956e-1cbd-471d-a53d-2912fe6657d4.gif

2533036-pgr43dark8dxu.gif

As someone who spent months of playhours in all PGR games and who has the lifetime respect for job done by Bizzare, I can understand your point from one side of argument.

Yes, no single game has still reached the level of environment complexity of cities as PGR3 (you even have me and Shinn equaly praising that aspect and still hunting the comparison images over net, almost a decade later), so noone objects that.

I still personally find the loss of all PGR assets as the greatest loss of the genre, ever. They are somewhere is someones archives and they will gether dust until all of us die. And those assets could be used even today, simply because the meshes and textures were made a decade ahead of their time (all textures in PGR3 were 1M pixels for instance and they still look photorealistic).

But saying PGR4 looks generation "ahead" of both DC and FM2 is really a hyperbole. Low def output resolution, lack of AA, prebaked lightning, almost no volumetric effects or proper alphas, janky cockpit animations... Yes, when looking from todays perspective, all those are minuses, despite I agree on everything else. But you can't be selective when you provide absolute opinion.

If going that way, I could say how PS2 version of F355 Challenge was a "generation ahead" of almost all PS3/X360 racers. It may be accurate (not "true", there is a difference) from one point of view, but it is not accurate from absolute viewpoint.
 
You know it's just fisheye lens, and you could adjust it to make walking speed feel like 100mph. right?

I know you weren't talking to me, but why is that relevant? It doesn't matter how they managed to make the sense of speed so perfect. All he/she said was that the sense of speed was insane and that they love it.
 

wickfut

Banned
I know you weren't talking to me, but why is that relevant? It doesn't matter how they managed to make the sense of speed so perfect. All he/she said was that the sense of speed was insane and that they love it.

A goldfish bowl view is a pet hate of mine and a IMO poor way to represent speed.
 

Game4life

Banned
DC looks better than FH2. It does not make the console of your choice any less important or the other console better. A little bit of objectivity in this thread would not hurt irrespective of console allegiances. Both games look superfun.
 

le-seb

Member
Does something running at 60fps give a greater sense of speed?
Do you always answer questions with questions?

Only smoother, I'd say, and the sense of speed itself depends on the amount of things thrown on the sides.
IMO, they've done a very good work with DC, and I don't feel like I'm a fish in a bowl. At all.

So, now that I've answered your question, and since you can think of better ways to provide sense of speed, I'm eager to hear about them.
 

Certinty

Member
Graphically DC looks amazing but besides that FH2 looks by far the more fun of the two with tons more to do.

Still though it's a bit unfair to compare the two graphically and a Project CARS vs DC comparison seems more fitting. From what I've seen, the PC version of Project CARS is the best looking game I've ever seen so if the PS4 version looks anywhere at good it gets my vote for the best looking racing game.
 

I don't know how anyone could say that looks last-gen. It's clear, even from those low quality webm's, that it's a current-gen title. Looks really nice at night.

A goldfish bowl view is a pet hate of mine and a IMO poor way to represent speed.

I haven't noticed a fish-eye lens or goldfish bowl effect at all, on any of the GIF's or gameplay videos I've watched of DC. Imo, it doesn't really matter how they've done it, it clearly isn't a poor way to represent speed because Evo have hit the nail on the head with DC in terms of the sense of speed.
 
Pcars is the best looking over all of robvious reasons, but DC has some nice atmospheric effects.

One thing hurting FH2 is the material shading, it just does not look very realistic in comparison to DC or PCars.
 

wickfut

Banned
Do you always answer questions with questions?

Only smoother, I'd say, and the sense of speed itself depends on the amount of things thrown on the sides.
IMO, they've done a very good work with DC, and I don't feel like I'm a fish in a bowl. At all.

So, now that I've answered your question, and since you can think of better ways to provide sense of speed, I'm eager to hear about them.

Is something up with you?

You were the one who mentioned the frame rate. I only mentioned that I didn't like fish eye lens effects to simulate speed. Real life speed effects aren't because of a changing field of view.

High FoV/Fisheye lens effects to simulate speed have a side effect which makes distant objects seem further away, this makes looking towards the horizon while turning have a strange "objects moving away from you" effect as they move from your side view to directly in front of you.
To make matters worse, usually in racers (not sure in DC) they increase the fisheye effect depending on your speed. So slow speeds have objects on the horizon appearing quite close, while faster speeds puts those objects much further away.

If you're happy with this effect and it doesn't bother you then jolly good for you. I hate it. And, after all the work being put in to DC to have the graphics cheapened with this effect saddens me.
 
Both racers look great.

However for some reason I think I like the look of Forza Horizon 2 more than DriveClub. I downloaded and watched an uncompressed 1080p footage of FH2 from Gamecom and I couldn't help but notice how clean, sharp and crisp the overall image quality was. DriveClub too has really good image quality but most of it is compounded by some distracting aliasing on power lines, to the bonnet and spoilers of cars. When weather effects are in play then indeed Driveclub looks phenomenal but I do wonder if that gif which keeps getting re-posted from Gamecom isn't perhaps from a cleaned up replay mode of some sort?
 
Both racers look great.

However for some reason I think I like the look of Forza Horizon 2 more than DriveClub. I downloaded and watched an uncompressed 1080p footage of FH2 from Gamecom and I couldn't help but notice how clean, sharp and crisp the overall image quality was. DriveClub too has really good image quality but most of it is compounded by some distracting aliasing on power lines, to the bonnet and spoilers of cars. When weather effects are in play then indeed Driveclub looks phenomenal but I do wonder if that gif which keeps getting re-posted from Gamecom isn't perhaps from a cleaned up replay mode of some sort?

If I remember correctly, they did say that they were working on a better AA solution when people were complaining about the aliasing in the Canada video. I seriously doubt that GIF was touched up in anyway.
 

Navid

Member
And rather than doing some shitty low detail countryside its rendering photo-realistic cities.
Have always felt that rendering a natural environment has always been harder to do realistically than a city environment due to all the vegetation and crooked lines and shapes...
 

le-seb

Member
Is something up with you?

You were the one who mentioned the frame rate.
Yes, because I thought you were the kind of people who think 60fps or die. My bad.

Nonetheless, you're the one mentioning DC's using some kind of fisheye lens effect to provide its sense of speed (which is possible, but as I already told you, I just don't feel at all), and that it's a poor way to do so.
Which implies you can think of better ways to do so, and I'm just curious to know what they are.
 

psn

Member
Pcars is the best looking over all of robvious reasons, but DC has some nice atmospheric effects.

One thing hurting FH2 is the material shading, it just does not look very realistic in comparison to DC or PCars.

PCars looks not as good as DC. And this comes from a PCars Member since 2012. I don't even know where to start. PCars looks good at some time of the day, but the lightning still looks a bit off imo. The nice atmospheric effects give the edge to Driveclub atm imo. It looks polished. Can't say the same about PCars. And both release soon. And yes, I have the hardware to max out PCars.
 
PCars looks not as good as DC. And this comes from a PCars Member since 2012. I don't even know where to start. PCars looks good at some time of the day, but the lightning still looks a bit off imo. The nice atmospheric effects give the edge to Driveclub atm imo. It looks polished. Can't say the same about PCars. And both release soon. And yes, I have the hardware to max out PCars.

I was going to say this, but I feared the backlash. I agree completely. The environments of PC don't match DC's environments at all, imo. I understand that PC has the higher poly car models, more effects, higher resolutions and framerates, but not a single GIF or piece of footage that I've seen of PC has blown me away the same way DC has.
 

psn

Member
I was going to say this, but I feared the backlash. I agree completely. The environments of PC don't match DC's environments at all, imo. I understand that PC has the higher poly car models, more effects, higher resolutions and framerates, but not a single GIF or piece of footage that I've seen of PC has blown me away the same way DC has.

Nice to hear I'm not alone. Framerate wise, PCars has the edge, forgot to mention that.
 
I agree that DC does look better overall than FH2 right now. The lighting is just on another level.

The thing is, it doesn't look like the more fun game. At this point it doesn't even look like it has any kind of proper physics... or whatever the hell you geniuses call it. The cars don't display any kind of weight or momentum shifting while braking and accelerating. Also, the race to the front seems like a ping pong match to get to the front shoving every car out the way ala GT.

It looks freaking great while doing so though.
 

Game4life

Banned
I agree that DC does look better overall than FH2 right now. The lighting is just on another level.

The thing is, it doesn't look like the more fun game. At this point it doesn't even look like it has any kind of proper physics... or whatever the hell you geniuses call it. The cars don't display any kind of weight or momentum shifting while braking and accelerating. Also, the race to the front seems like a ping pong match to get to the front shoving every car out the way ala GT.

It looks freaking great while doing so though.

The bolded is irrelevant in this thread.
 

nib95

Banned
You cant judge graphics on gifs, its just not accurate.
Gifs hide tons of rendering issues and generally promotes art.

The differences are even bigger in favour of Driveclub when you watch the 1080p videos of both...it's usually the game with better textures, more detail, more effects etc that benefits from a bigger picture, especially when the IQ is already really good.
 

Gestault

Member
If I remember correctly, they did say that they were working on a better AA solution when people were complaining about the aliasing in the Canada video. I seriously doubt that GIF was touched up in anyway.

Not that it was touched up, but the lower-contrast gif that I'm thinking of (the one Rushy retweeted) definitely benefits from being an off-screen recording. In general, that gives a softer but more convincing appearance, plus the contrast range tends to benefit.

This is a more exaggerated example from PGR4, recorded off-screen from an xbox with AV cables. I like to use it as an example of where less detail can lead to a more "realistic" image.

iupgDBl9GOAr7.gif


I still think Driveclub looks better between it and Horizon, but I think it's less of a difference having seen the newer gameplay from both (ignoring style and scope).
 

Caddle

Member
What effects are in DC that fh2 lack? Don't talk about environmental effects because in DC the car don't interact with the environment at all.
 

nib95

Banned
Not that it was touched up, but the lower-contrast gif that I'm thinking of (the one Rushy retweeted) definitely benefits from being an off-screen recording. In general, that gives a softer but more convincing appearance, plus the contrast range tends to benefit.

This is a more exaggerated example from PGR4, recorded off-screen from an xbox with AV cables. I like to use it as an example of where less detail can lead to a more "realistic" image.

iSrSbgkxO9MWU.gif


I still think Driveclub looks better between it and Horizon, but I think it's less of a difference having seen the newer gameplay from both (ignoring style and scope).

Games with worse IQ, textures, geometry, resolution etc benefit from down sampled and/or off screen GIF's, since they hide the shortcomings etc. I find it's largely the opposite for games such as Driveclub. Watching it in full 1080p is far more impressive than any GIF, because you can actually appreciate the subtleties and detail more. I think as games get better looking, with cleaner IQ, more accurate lighting, higher resolutions etc, GIF's will actually end up doing them more of a disservice than a service, which is why lately GIF's have started to get bigger for these sorts of games (e.g. the officially released DC GIF's were 720p I believe).

As another example, there's that GIF of The Order 1886 where Galahad is walking through the Cathedral. Just looks so much better in full 1080p. The GIF doesn't improve the image quality or look in any tangible way, it just makes it harder to appreciate the details.
 

Gestault

Member
Games with worse IQ, textures, geometry, resolution etc benefit from down sampled and/or off screen GIF's, since they hide the shortcomings etc. I find it's largely the opposite for games such as Driveclub. Watching it in full 1080p is far more impressive than any GIF, because you can actually appreciate the subtleties and detail more. I think as games get better looking, with cleaner IQ, more accurate lighting, higher resolutions etc, GIF's will actually end up doing them more of a disservice than a service, which is why lately GIF's have started to get bigger for these sorts of games (e.g. the officially released DC GIF's were 720p I believe).

As another example, there's that GIF of The Order 1886 where Galahad is walking through the Cathedral. Just looks so much better in full 1080p. The GIF doesn't improve the image quality or look in any tangible way, it just makes it harder to appreciate the details.

It benefits either case, in terms of looking more realistic. I was referring specifically to this image:

ibnaEcz7viI6MU.gif


Which apparently looked enough better than the direct-feed shots and gifs everywhere that people at the studio chose it to re-tweet to promote the game.
 
The bolded is irrelevant in this thread.

Well I'm not going into one of the DC threads to shit it up and I'm not into critiquing DC in a FH2 thread. This is the thread where one pisses on the other.

And what you're telling me is that you're okay with Evo putting all resources into making a their racing game look as great as possible and only good for driving, not actual racing?

I hear ya.
 

Gestault

Member
Well I'm not going into one of the DC threads to shit it up and I'm not into critiquing DC in a FH2 thread. This is the thread where one pisses on the other.

And what you're telling me is that you're okay with Evo putting all resources into making a their racing game look as great as possible and only good for driving, not actual racing?

I hear ya.

This is a graphics comparison thread. Please stay on that topic, as it's pointless to use something unrelated to that as a point/counterpoint to anything posted here.
 

Caddle

Member
I agree DC do look more realistic as far as the lighting, since that's the style they went for on the other hand fh2 looks more vibrant and the colors have a nice pop to it. Doesn't make fh2 look like a last gen games like some are saying. The car models and scenery in fh2 look comparable and so does the effects.
 

eso76

Member
Photomode is going to be a blast in these upcoming racers. I hate watermarks though.

hnizan.jpg

watermark is very easy to get rid of, though.

Here's the incredibly astute trick i came up with:

Take pic 1 -> save

Tilt camera 180° so that it's now exactly in the same position, but upside down

Take pic 2 -> save

Now, rotate and combine them in any editing software, voilà.

Well, at least FM and FH photomode ui allows you to tilt the camera 180° (and it's a different button on the pad, so you won't move the camera around accidentally), not sure about DC of course.


And yes, photomode is going to be incredible with both. While there's only so much you could do in, say, FM5 in regards to your subject, the amount of different lighting conditions and weather give you so many variables to play with, plus so many different settings with FH2 being free roaming.
 

blastprocessor

The Amiga Brotherhood
Driveclub DLC or Drive Club 2 should have city tracks, l guess they didn't bother because it's easier to race on wider roads outside the city.
 
It's really fickle wording, because I can tell FH2 looks better than anything a 360 could do, it doesn't look last gen at all. But I find DC looks that much better that it seems like a "generational leap", disregarding open world vs. closed circuit, just the visuals.
 

nib95

Banned
It benefits either case, in terms of looking more realistic. I was referring specifically to this image:

ibnaEcz7viI6MU.gif


Which apparently looked enough better than the direct-feed shots and gifs everywhere that people at the studio chose it to re-tweet to promote the game.

I don't personally think it does. I think it looks less detailed and almost blurry, with the glare of the TV screen hindering the overall look.

Direct feed looks a lot better imo, more so in the full resolution.

RecentRecentGodwit.gif


iblkbt6Sy1Rzpp.gif
 

Gestault

Member
I swear, every new release needs to have the equivalent of the "Big Shot" option from Forza. Honestly, we're to a point with photo modes that these could legitimately be used as professional graphic design renders and reference:

iJNwhoNwPFB9p.png


I don't personally think it does. I think it looks less detailed and almost blurry, with the glare of the TV screen hindering the overall look.

I guess Rushy just has bad taste then? To be clear, I'm saying that sardonically.
 

nib95

Banned
I guess Rushy just has bad taste then? To be clear, I'm saying that sardonically.
He's tweeted several GAF gif's and edits in the past. Doesn't mean in his opinion that particular GIF is any worse or better than any of the others. It is what it is.
 
It really should be no surprise that DC takes the cake here.

30 fps clearly gives DC a visual edge over 60 fps project cars.

And DriveClub is on more powerful hardware by a more talented studio (visually).

It's really not even close.
 
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