• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sony expects to post a fiscal-year loss of more than $2 billion

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SRG01

Member
Exile20 said:
Profits are probably very slim for the PS4.
Click to expand...

Thought their gaming division did alright last quarter? Wasn't a run-away success, but I wouldn't call it slim?

At any rate, I really think Sony should push themselves further into the semiconductor market. They've already proven that their camera sensors are popular, and they don't have to invest in the low-margin stuff like Samsung mass producing NAND memory.

They can easily invest in biosensors, since they've already made previous announcements to get into the health sector.
 
M

MauMau

Banned
RPGamer92 said:
Why not just sell the phone division then?
Click to expand...

It was just a year or two ago their up and coming "save the company" division. It was set to explode, then it didn't.

TV's are pretty consistent loss makers, but other than that, it seems to be a roulette table each year on which division is dragging the company down. In the early PS3 years it was gaming. Now it's smart phones.

It's a weird company. They have their consistent loss makers like TV's. They have a slew of divisions that will either pull in a minor profit, or a major loss, like gaming or cell phones. These two divisions are high risk, low reward. Not sure why Sony keeps them. Just look at the numbers when gaming for Sony was at its peak for Sony, the PS2 days. Then look at the numbers during the early PS3 days. It's pretty remarkable. The only thing consistently in the black is insurance.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Prodigal said:
Is this a good time to buy? Relatively new to the stock market here!
Click to expand...

I personally wouldn't invest in the company just because I don't have much faith in Mr. Hirai to turn the company around. But that's just me...there are plenty of people who will tell you there's potential there.
 
R

reKon

Banned
whatever77 said:
Why would I bother? And why should the rest of the consumer world bother? I have never had similar problems from the competing brands. The stake is very high. If you can't bring your A game to play, don't waste my time. I don't even have problem with LG phones and I still switched. Why? becasue Samsung offer similar hardware with much more ROM options. Why should I go for the lesser phone.

I will get a new Oppo, Xiaomi phone way before I get another Sony phone. Don't flatter yourself.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing, they have been bringing their A game and still are now in terms of premium smartphones.

Consumers would bother because what they demand the most are important measures such as battery life and their phones definitely deliver there. If you really think Sony is struggling right because their flagship phones are inferior to competitors, then you are truly clueless. Look at reviews for the Xperia Z2 and Xperia Z1 Compact then come back and talk to me.

Sony is struggling in the mobile market because that haven't been effective in the distribution/marketing of their flagship line up in key regions around the world (mainly the US) and because haven't achieved profits they expected from their bloated amount of mid-range phones.

I don't know why you're holding a grudge above some old shitty Sony phone that you bought back in the day.
 
M

metalmonstar

Member
Prodigal said:
Is this a good time to buy? Relatively new to the stock market here!
Click to expand...

2 years ago I had Sony as a cautious buy. I had high hopes that their restructuring would bring results, a leaner stronger company. Now I am much more pessimistic. The results just aren't there. It is not a good buy.
 
T

Tookay

Member
hipbabboom said:
Precisely! There isn't a problem. This is some fanboy gloom and doom bullshit! Plain and simple. Sony has been losing billions for years now and they're still going. They release good products with descent to god-tier quality and they have the #1 console in the world. Driveclub is coming out and they have Bloodbourn. Destany which launches on PS4 as the premier console has sold nearly a $1billion. I can go on about the new IPs and indie games that lead on their platform. No man's sky, and they also have steam on the PS3. Its the most extensive ecosystem for games and they're not spending their money to buy exclusives. As you stated, they make excellent phones and tablets too. People knock them because they're coming out of a terrible mess made by someone who doesn't understand how a Japanese company works. Kaz is fixing things and we just need to give Sony more time. Let Engadget write their ketchup article. What does a fail blog know about a thriving business. Remember the PS3? Now look at the PS4 -- yeah, exactly! Movies, TV, computers, portables.... never count out the comeback kid <3



What does this even mean?!! Sony's phones are universally praised. If there was a metacritic for phones, Sony would totally get a quality bonus.



Kaz has been fixing the problems caused by Stringer. Why would you get rid of the guy who is effectively healing the company?
Click to expand...

hipbabboom said:
Wait... what? Did I say something hyperbolic or dumb? You'd do well to never count Sony out.



I hate hearing this because they've made strides in this market. You hear Indies talk about how nice the ps4 is to program for and you see how slick their device ui looks across their device ecosystem. These are not achievements a company that's bad in software can boast. I'm not a fanboy but ms made windows 8 and they're a software company but people are taking them to task for that and Sony sells more handsets than ms as well so the way I see it, Sony makes great software to support its hardware.
Click to expand...

hipbabboom said:
Well... These are like just your opinions. I think I make some valid points too and while people may mock me in this thread, I like to believe that there's a silver lining. Like Kaz said, this is a marathon nd not a sprint. Sony is going to make a comeback. They've always been a company that's not afraid of trying. You could reward such effort by being a little bit more Optimistic in your observations rather than saying such hurtful things :(

You're still one of my favorite mods but your posts in this thread make me feel genuinely terrible.
[RANT]a
I'm man enough to admit I love this company and want to see them succeed. People want to make it out to be something bad because I'm not being negative enough. I think others have the negativity market covered. [END RANT]
Click to expand...
Good Lord. This isn't about fanboyism. This is about being objective and looking at the market realities.
 
J

Jhriad

Member
JackLongRod said:
When you factor in the 50% cut theaters take and production/marketing budgets Sony doesn't make very much money.
Click to expand...

Each theater company negotiates on profit sharing rates on a per movie basis. It's very unlikely that they were able to get as good a share as you're assuming for a movie as large as Spider-Man.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
blame space said:
have they even looked around? i feel like $2 billion is a lot of money to just lose.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not like all of that money literally vanishes from their cash accounts. It's about the total valuation of Sony's business.

Most of the loss is from Sony over-valuing their Mobile Communications department...shifting the value of the asset to a more realistic figure brings major losses to that valuation.
 
M

Maidenpool?

Member
Say Company B from Japan loses a lot of money in 2014, then is bought by Company A that is based in America.

Does Company A get to carry the losses from Company B to 2015 or whenever, even though Company B lost all that money in Japan?
 
R

reKon

Banned
Maidenpool? said:
Say Company B from Japan loses a lot of money in 2014, then is bought by Company A that is based in America.

Does Company A get to carry the losses from Company B to 2015 or whenever, even though Company B lost all that money in Japan?
Click to expand...

If there are no issues with the acquisition and it closes, I don't see why not if becomes a subsidiary in the consolidated group.

CPA-GAF?

Aquamarine said:
Well, it's not like all of that money literally vanishes from their cash accounts. It's about the total valuation of Sony's business.

Most of the loss is from Sony over-valuing their Mobile Communications department...shifting the value of the asset to a more realistic figure brings major losses to that valuation.
Click to expand...

Lol, Apple has Sony shook with that 40million preorder estimate. Must have revised their estimated future cash flows right after..

I hope they're not leaving it up Samsung and Apple because they are really producing excellent devices. Just cut out the fat, make your budget offering cheaper than the Moto E and distribute and market to the US to start off.
 
E

Exile20

Member
hipbabboom said:
Destany which launches on PS4 as the premier console has sold nearly a $1billion.
Click to expand...

WAIT WHAT!?!?!?!

It may not be all sunshine roses. Selling into retailers $500 million worth of SKUs and only moving $325 million within the first week doesn't quite add up. There's still $175 million worth of Destiny titles sitting around; and if those don't sell within a timely manner, then that break-even point of having shifted $500 million to retailers could become null if any of those copies have to be shipped back to Activision, or retailers fail to order more. This makes the next couple of weeks absolutely crucial, as far as sales go for the first-person shooter.
Click to expand...

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Destiny-Grosses-325-Million-Consumer-Sales-Within-5-Days-67359.html

How is that even close to 1 billion? Are you rounding up to the nearest billion? My goodness dude.

Plus Destiny is on PS4, PS3, X1 and X360. You think all units were sold on the PS4?
 
M

Maidenpool?

Member
reKon said:
If there are no issues with the acquisition and it closes, I don't see why not if becomes a subsidiary in the consolidated group.

CPA-GAF?
Click to expand...

Mr. Pachter are you out there?

I think you know what I am getting at too... if it is possible to take on the losses, does this make Sony a much more attractive takeover target than it was before?
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
I actually have no idea what they can even do to fix this at this point.

Become an insurance company?
 
H

hipbabboom

Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Exile20 said:
WAIT WHAT!?!?!?!



http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Destiny-Grosses-325-Million-Consumer-Sales-Within-5-Days-67359.html

How is that even close to 1 billion? Are you rounding up to the nearest billion? My goodness dude.

Plus Destiny is on PS4, PS3, X1 and X360. You think all units were sold on the PS4?
Click to expand...

There was a press release that they sold in 500 million so I figured if I rounded up to the nearest billion but dropped two zeros which must have been significant figures, it would still be accurate. After all, the news was reported in billion figures so I wanted to keep the messaging clear and simple to avoid any confusions. Sorry for the confusion.
 
S

slit

Member
Az987 said:
They all canceled dividends for the year which is kind of big.
Click to expand...

They are in trouble, there is no question. People can't bury their heads in the sand all they want but unless something major changes they're going to continue sinking.
 
S

sooperkool

Member
hipbabboom said:
There was a press release that they sold in 500 million so I figured if I rounded up to the nearest billion but dropped two zeros which must have been significant figures, it would still be accurate. After all, the news was reported in billion figures so I wanted to keep the messaging clear and simple to avoid any confusions. Sorry for the confusion.
Click to expand...

What you want to believe and what is actually happening are two very different things. It would be better if you admitted that you are out of your depth and asked for some education. Sony is dying.
 
M

methane47

Member
captainraincoat said:
The gaming division as a while is not too bad but the Vita sales certainly let the whole thing down

While this may be a good thing it means if sony decide to start chopping up the company and selling it off the gaming division might get bought out by someone like apple...then we r all fucked
Click to expand...

Why would they sell the gaming division? That's seems like the only one worth keeping.

That's like saying if your name is Noah and you start feeling some rain.. Thinking... you know what?... Maybe I'll sell my Ark
 
D

Drek

Member
StoOgE said:
I actually have no idea what they can even do to fix this at this point.

Become an insurance company?
Click to expand...

What I think Kaz is already doing - cutting off the fat and downgrading assets across the board where applicable to make Sony an attractive purchase for a major company that wants 1. all their media holdings and 2. a direct entry in both the video game and digital content delivery markets.

Companies are paying billions for entities like Mojang and Twitch. Once the bloodletting from the TV and smartphone divisions is done Sony will be a lean company primarily hampered by their lack of financial muscle to push back into the digital marketplace, despite having strong brand recognition and existing technology within the digital spectrum. At that point they'd give any company looking to take the plunge into any or all of the remaining segments instant clout and credibility.

I could see Amazon or Google buying them and turning the Playstation brand into their format to bid for living room supremacy. I could see Disney buy them for the IPs and digital platform. I could even see MS buying them as a real possibility if the PS4 continues to dominate the Xbox One and Nadella is unwilling to walk away from the living room box concept.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Persona7 said:
How much did the the sony gaming division lose since the PS4 came out?
Click to expand...

Not including the sunk costs of PS4's R&D + Marketing...


Operating Income of Sony's Gaming Division:


October 1st, 2013 - December 31st, 2013: +18 billion JPY

January 1st, 2014 - March 31st, 2014: -10.5 billion JPY

April 1st, 2014 - June 30th, 2014: +4.3 billion JPY



Sony has made 11.8 billion JPY ($109.3 million) in profit since the PS4 launched.
 
O

Opiate

Member
methane47 said:
Why would they sell the gaming division? That's seems like the only one worth keeping.

That's like saying if your name is Noah and you start feeling some rain.. Thinking... you know what?... Maybe I'll sell my Ark
Click to expand...

I feel Sony's gaming division is one of the few components that Sony is best keeping. There are really two things that decide if a division is worth keeping.

1) Does it make money? This one is obvious. The Gaming division doesn't make a great deal of money, but it hasn't been losing lots of money recently, either, and the brand has significant awareness.

2) Is the division worth more to someone else than it is to you? Even if a division is making money, if you "only" make 100M off of the division but some other company is in a position (let's say they have other stuff they can combine your division with) that could make 2 billion instead, then it may be worth it to sell. The division is worth a lot more to another company than it is to you.

Playstation really doesn't fit either of those descriptions. It's not bleeding money and it's also not clearly worth more to anyone else. Sony is in a good position to fully leverage their game division.
 
E

Exile20

Member
Drek said:
What I think Kaz is already doing - cutting off the fat and downgrading assets across the board where applicable to make Sony an attractive purchase for a major company that wants 1. all their media holdings and 2. a direct entry in both the video game and digital content delivery markets.

Companies are paying billions for entities like Mojang and Twitch. Once the bloodletting from the TV and smartphone divisions is done Sony will be a lean company primarily hampered by their lack of financial muscle to push back into the digital marketplace, despite having strong brand recognition and existing technology within the digital spectrum. At that point they'd give any company looking to take the plunge into any or all of the remaining segments instant clout and credibility.

I could see Amazon or Google buying them and turning the Playstation brand into their format to bid for living room supremacy. I could see Disney buy them for the IPs and digital platform. I could even see MS buying them as a real possibility if the PS4 continues to dominate the Xbox One and Nadella is unwilling to walk away from the living room box concept.
Click to expand...

What does Sony have at this point? Insurance, Playstation, Mobile and whatelse?
 
V

Vilam

Maxis Redwood
Sony why :(

Get your shit together; I don't want you going anywhere. It's starting to feel really grim reading these year after year.
 
A

Allez Phill

Banned
Dunlop said:
No matter how well the gaming division would do it could never keep the rest afloat
Click to expand...

This is something that people do not realize. The gaming division can't bring back this money one bit. Over at Sony they're hoping for this shit to brush over and it's not. In order for them to even attempt to fix this, they'll have to abandon all of the extra baggage in their company and focus on maybe two specific things. No one wants their TVs even though they're nice, their phones are nice, but the Xperia line is just dried up due to Samsung, Apple, and Google. I don't even want to talk about Vaio. The MP3 player is steadily dying, and with Apple taking out the Classic iPod, it basically dies when they say so. Like I said earlier in this thread, Sony has an oversaturated amount of divisions. If they have patents, they should drop those on a bigger company that can actually spend the money using them, drop the movie license's and avoid potential box office flops.

Sony should keep their gaming division, headphone/audio, and maybe rework the display divisions to make them more available and more catching to the average consumer. They need to leave that other shit behind and just accept the losses in the market instead of driving their fucking company into the ground.
 
A

Averon

Member
The most frustrating thing about this company is when you think they finally turned a corner, they get hit with something else out of the blue.

I can only imagine what other unexpected downturn in a segment they thought they were safe in will hit them next year. Which division is the likely culprit? TVs again now that the World Cup is over? Music? A shitty summer movie season? Another impairment charge?
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Exile20 said:
What does Sony have at this point? Insurance, Playstation, Mobile and whatelse?
Click to expand...

2FNqp1U.jpg


The MP&C segment includes the Mobile Communications and Personal and Mobile Products categories. Mobile Communications
includes mobile phones; Personal and Mobile Products includes personal computers.

The IP&S segment includes the Digital Imaging Products and Professional Solutions categories. Digital Imaging Products includes
compact digital cameras, video cameras and interchangeable single-lens cameras; Professional Solutions includes broadcast- and
professional-use products.

The HE&S segment includes the Televisions and Audio and Video categories. Televisions includes LCD televisions; Audio and Video
includes home audio, Blu-ray DiscTM players and recorders and memory-based portable audio devices.

The Devices segment includes the Semiconductors and Components categories. Semiconductors includes image sensors; Components
includes batteries, recording media and data recording systems

Starting from the second quarter ended September 30, 2013, the disclosure for sales to external customers for the Pictures segment has been
expanded into the following three categories: Motion Pictures, Television Productions, and Media Networks. Motion Pictures includes the
production, acquisition and distribution of motion pictures; Television Productions includes the production, acquisition and distribution of
television programming; Media Networks includes the operation of television and digital networks.

Starting from the second quarter ended September 30, 2013, the disclosure for sales to external customers for the Music segment has been
expanded into the following three categories: Recorded Music, Music Publishing and Visual Media and Platform. Recorded Music
includes the distribution of physical and digital recorded music and revenue derived from artists&#8217; live performances; Music Publishing
includes the management and licensing of the words and music of songs; Visual Media and Platform includes various service offerings for
music and visual products and the production and distribution of animation titles.


The Financial Services segment results include Sony Financial Holdings Inc. (&#8220;SFH&#8221;) and SFH&#8217;s consolidated subsidiaries such as Sony
Life Insurance Co., Ltd. (&#8220;Sony Life&#8221;), Sony Assurance Inc. and Sony Bank Inc. (&#8220;Sony Bank&#8221;). The results of Sony Life discussed in the
Financial Services segment differ from the results that SFH and Sony Life disclose separately on a Japanese statutory basis.




Now, since Sony sold off their computer division, we just have the Mobile Communications unit for FY 2014.

Here are its first quarter results:

wHXZQhs.jpg
 
O

Oersted

Member
Aquamarine said:
I personally wouldn't invest in the company just because I don't have much faith in Mr. Hirai to turn the company around. But that's just me...there are plenty of people who will tell you there's potential there.
Click to expand...

Didn´t Hirai say under certain circumstances he would step down? Or am I mixing things up?
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
davepoobond said:
Disney still has to be mindful of budgets. If they got Spider-Man, they would be REMOVING something else from their line-up to make Spider-Man.

We shouldn't really want that to happen that much, it would only condense the projects coming out
Click to expand...

meh spidermans first film would be an avengers film just cause it would cause the frenzy of frenzies their initial bank would be the extra 500 mil spidey brings to an avengers total.
 
W

whatever77

Banned
Formidable said:
Basically, Marvel/Disney is sold rights to Sony to make elaborate marketing "ads" (movies) to sell merchandise that Sony doesn't get a dime of.
Click to expand...

Come on Sony had plenty of opportunity to make money. If the IP itself worth so much money why didn't Sony buy Marvel? Sony was spending money on Bond franchise etc so you can only argue Sony make bad investment decisions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Sony’s stock value drop by about $10b after lowering PS5’s sales forecast for the fiscal year, analysts question near decade-low profit margin
3 4 5 6 7
310
18K
Mibu no ookami replied
Falcom Announces New Trails Game Planned for Fiscal Year Ending September 2024
News
9
807
subsmoke replied
Monopoly Go Devs Spent More On Marketing Than It Cost To Develop The Last Of Us 2
Business 2
55
3K
Osaka_Boss replied
[Reuters] More than a billion people worldwide are obese, WHO study finds
News 2 3
125
4K
Mistake replied
Famitsu 2023 annual report — NSW#1 (-15%), PS5#2 (+124%), XBS#3 (−47%) | Zelda TOTK#1, Mario Wonder#2, Pikmin 4#3 (physical software only)
Analysis Sales-Age 2
60
4K
Celine replied
Top Bottom