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[QuantumZebra]

As someone who hasn't looked at a single gamer's gate thread on gaf since the first one was posted... I'm just not seeing the issue. If gamer's gate is bothering you, stop giving it all your attention and it'll go away just like every 'controversy' eventually does.

This is concerted harassment and death threats of multiple women... I posted some of the articles in the thread... that isn't an issue?

You can't ignore multiple women chased out of their homes due to incredible mountains of threats, as well as recent threats to shoot up a school.

That's not trolling.

"I mean yea but... like... you know... its just... threats and stuff... totally not seeing this issue here"

smh

 

[Bovandy]

a primer

I like that he calls people deranged, then basically offers up a deranged theory where the only reason a writer or developer getting killed is a bad thing, is because it would "kill" the movement.

A movement which, at it's heart, is basically petulant children who are mad that a video game might not be as good as they were told.

 

[SmZA]

Generalizations like the above are why it has gone on for so long in the first place and why it got so big in the first place. You aren't going to "fight the good fight" by directly confronting it with arguments and vitriol.

Thanks for 'splaining it to us!

 

[Steel]

Your hand-wavy attitude and misdirection is gross. You are part of the problem.

Yes because I've participated in this clusterfuck, yep, I'm part of the gamergate movement, you caught me. Or you know, maybe I'm not part of gamergate and don't really participate in this type of shit and actually do care about equality in gaming and see that this argument is clearly pointless. The problem originates in people slinging shit everywhere, regardless of side, like what you're doing right here. If you make an accusation toward someone, whether or not that accusation holds any water, of course they'll respond to it. It's self-perpetuating.

 

[mbmonk]

Trying to stop an internet hate war is like trying to stop fusion from occurring in the sun. It's dumb, but it's the internet.

Edit:



Most of gamergate is upset at a completely separate issue and aren't really supporting death threats, but if people want to lump them altogether, well that's how things keep escalating. It's all stupid.

Exactly

 

[LuchaShaq]

People blaming gamergate for psycos acting psyco have no concept of how crazy people work.

The threats are all

A. A minority of trolls who just want to get a rise out of people and are not real threats.

B. Genuinely crazy/potentially violent people who don't need gamergate to be crazy and potentially violent.


At this point everyone making threats genuine or not, and all the press constantly circlejerking/lumping all of gaming in with said psycos can all get fucked together and leave me out of their attention whoring bullshit.

 

[BocoDragon]

It hasn't though. It's just causing more harassment against women in the industry, if people don't speak out against it and shame those who support it, it will not stop.

I honestly wonder if "confronting" these trolls just perpetuates a silly back and forth though?

I would have handled this like the White House. No comment.

I know "evil is perpetuated by good men doing nothing" but in this case I feel like it's an unorganized army of trolls who can only function if they have singular targets calling them out.

 

[jabuseika]

I thought there was a thread for this.

 

[g11]

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like most gamersgate people are against the harassment. The problem stems from gamersgate people think denouncing it and then trying to move on and focus on their actual complaints is enough, and a lot of gaming press and the victims themselves don't want to hear any of it as long as the threats keep happening. The gamersgate people have no power to really stop it so nothing gets resolved or even discussed.

 

[Devolution]

I think what people should push for out of this is much more punitive consequences for behaviors online. E-stalking, e-harassment, threats. These things should be taken more seriously and dealt with beyond "it's just trolling, it's empty, it's harmless."

 

[SkyOdin]

As someone who hasn't looked at a single gamer's gate thread on gaf since the first one was posted... I'm just not seeing the issue. If gamer's gate is bothering you, stop giving it all your attention and it'll go away just like every 'controversy' eventually does.

That kind of attitude doesn't really help the women who are receiving death threats. Sarkensen had to cancel an appearance at a Utah University since someone made a detailed threat outlining how many weapons they had and how they were going to make a repeat of a mass murder that happened in Canada targeting women and feminists. This stuff is getting frightening, and just pretending that it doesn't exist does zero to fix it. Your attitude, common as it is, is how they are getting away with this kind of abusive behavior.

 

[starwarsfan541]

Okay. I'm sick of this shit. It's gone on long enough.

There have been occasional articles on major sites about this, but it's time to end this bullshit. Women who speak out shouldn't be in fear for their lives. This has gone far, far beyond what anyone could have originally imagined, and it's gone in a horribly, horribly wrong direction.

So on that note, major gaming sites, please alienate these asshats. Please unite and step forward to SUPPORT diversity, and SUPPORT women. It's so obvious that this has evolved into such a hateful thing, and yet nobody is really stepping out to stop this shit. STEP THE FUCK UP. THIS IS DISGUSTING.

agreed

What the f*** happened? I generally ignored this crap but saw it on DailyKos

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

You can't ignore multiple women chased out of their homes due to incredible mountains of threats, as well as recent threats to shoot up a school.

That's not trolling.

And all the weight of the law should fall on these crazy kids, but I think major outlets giving them the attention will basically raise their ego.

 

[L Thammy]

Just since I have them conveniently available at the moment, here are a bunch of images that have been posted in the Gamergate thread. I apologize in advance for my horribly biased post.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Can't say I'm surprised to see apathy from the usual suspects

 

[QuantumZebra]

People blaming gamergate for psycos acting psyco have no concept of how crazy people work.

The threats are all

A. A minority of trolls who just want to get a rise out of people and are not real threats.

B. Genuinely crazy/potentially violent people who don't need gamergate to be crazy and potentially violent.


At this point everyone making threats genuine or not, and all the press constantly circlejerking/lumping all of gaming in with said psycos can all get fucked together and leave me out of their attention whoring bullshit.

"The email was a warning to all staff and students at USU if Sarkeesian’s talk wasn’t canceled “a Montreal Massacre style attack will be carried out” against those in attendance, students, staff and the women’s center.

“I have at my disposal a semi-automatic rifle, multiple pistols, and a collection of pipe bombs,” the email continues. The threat is “giving (USU) a chance to stop it.”

The threats increase throughout the letter, saying at one point that even if security is increased it won’t save anyone and feminists on campus won’t be able to defend themselves.

“One way or another, I’m going to make sure they die,” it said.

Sarkeesian poses “everything wrong with the feminist woman” and that is why she is being targeted, the email states. “She is going to die screaming like the craven little whore that she is if you let her come to USU.”

The writer ended the email saying they would never be found, but everyone will soon know their name.

“I will write my manifesto in her spilled blood, and you will all bear witness to what feminist lies and poison have done to the men of America.”

Yep empty threats, you know

 

[Dartastic]

I'm not, repeat, not defending Gamersgate. (Please don't make me repeat that in bold and italics and highlight because someone only reads what they want to read.) But one of the chief complaints I've read from a number of those huddling under that banner is that they already feel like the gaming media has started painting huge swaths of them as bad people, that gamers in general are being used as an easy target by journalists in what they feel are click-bait pieces painting a hobby as gross, misogynistic, etc, regardless of the actions or beliefs of the individuals. Of course, many of them went out and proved they are actually bad people, misogynistic, etc, especially when mob mentality kicks in. But one of the common complaints that I've seen is that they felt attacked and alienated to begin with.

So alienating them MORE is just throwing barrels of gasoline on the fire. Something has to be done, but encouraging more hate and division to support inclusiveness is kind of counter-intuitive. All it would do is give Gamersgate people more material to point at and say, "See? SEE?"

I see your point. At the very least they need to tell them that this hashtag has evolved to a point where it represents something very, very bad and they need to cut that shit out. They need to stand up for women, and stand up for diversity. I don't feel it's click bait at all when the hashtag itself was started with an attack on a woman. I mean, quite literally this ENTIRE thing started as an attack on a woman. It needs to stop.

 

[kiunchbb]

I thought it had died out honestly. They even banned discussions on 4chan iirc

That's more like the reason why it is so strong right now, if only the media at least acknowledge their existence, the hashtag wouldn't be so popular. The only reason they are gathering under #gg is because they have no where to vent.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Yes because I've participated in this clusterfuck, yep, I'm part of the gamergate movement, you caught me. Or you know, maybe I'm not part of gamergate and don't really participate in this type of shit and actually do care about equality in gaming and see that this argument is clearly pointless. The problem originates in people slinging shit everywhere, regardless of side, like what you're doing right here. If you make an accusation toward someone, whether or not that accusation holds any water, of course they'll respond to it. It's self-perpetuating.

And in the process of letting these harassers have the floor, minority voices will be too afraid to speak up or try to make games, because basically anything remotely labelled "SWJ's" gets a storm of hatred and attack.

Best thing to do is to show the industry as separate from those who drive people out. Minimize the damage.

 

[Vylash]

Wouldn't be easier to just let it die?

Those guys want notoriety, even negative, so better ignore them and let them get bored of it.

why didn't i think of that? just let the constant harassment of women go unchecked! that'll work

 

[John Kowalski]

I'm kinda embarrassed to say that i can't actually make heads or tails of this whole thing. There is so much unbridled stupidity and aggressiveness flying around all the time, i don't even know what is what anymore.

 

[SmZA]

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like most gamersgate people are against the harassment. The problem stems from gamersgate people think denouncing it and then trying to move on and focus on their actual complaints is enough, and a lot of gaming press and the victims themselves don't want to hear any of it as long as the threats keep happening. The gamersgate people have no power to really stop it so nothing gets resolved or even discussed.

There are no coherent 'actual' complaints.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

This has evolved in such a way to which I feel people need to make large, sweeping statements condeming the actions of these asshats, and nobody really has done that yet, to my knowledge. You're seeing individual articles here and there, but you're not seeing publications as a whole stand up and saying "fuck this shit, get the fuck out of here."

Not sure how "fuck this shit, get the fuck out of here" is going to really solve anything. Major gaming websites already stood up (if anything, some went overboard and began attacking 'gamers' as a whole, which added fuel to the fire).

To my knowledge, not a single major gaming website or outlet is providing #gamergate a platform to speak. Many forums around the internet ban discussion on the topic if/when it gets out of hand, and I regularly see articles bringing to light attacks and threats against minorities.

So, what's the mission here? Giving #gamergate attention is only going to prolong it. If you disagree with it, shut up and change the channel. <--- Not always the solution, but in this scenario I believe that it is.

Thanks for 'splaining it to us!

You're welcome.

 

[Mesoian]

Speak with your wallet if you want change.

...how exactly?

Anyway #StopGamerGate2014 is going around on twitter right now. If you wanna do something RIGHT NOW, as superfluous as twitter may be, there's your sign.

 

[Realyn]

I haven't visited that thread once and don't even understand what it's about. I would assume the whole buying rewards for sex bullshit? Then again I stopped to care about those sites years ago(aside GT for review videos). If you want to stop it don't visit the thread and take part in the conversation would be my suggestion.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I'm kinda embarrassed to say that i can't actually make heads or tails of this whole thing. There is so much unbridled stupidity and aggressiveness flying around all the time, i don't even know what is what anymore.

Refer to the school shooting / blood smear painting threat against one of the gamergate women I just posted.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

And all the weight of the law should fall on these crazy kids, but I think major outlets giving them the attention will basically raise their ego.

The weight of the law doesn't fall on things people don't know about.

I haven't visited that thread once and don't even understand what it's about. I would assume the whole buying rewards for sex bullshit? Then again I stopped to care about those sites years ago(aside GT for review videos). If you want to stop it don't visit the thread and take part in the conversation would be my suggestion.

You sure have a lot to say about a topic you know you know nothing about.

 

[Darknight]

I think anyone making death threats should be investigated by the FBI or some government agency.

But I cant believe there are assholes like that who are nothing but bullying women just because its the internet. Yea they are giving everyone a bad rep but how can you control these assholes from spewing hate?

 

[Codeblue]

It started with bad intentions, had some good-sounding but empty mission statements added, then kept on doing the same bad things.

This is how I see it as well. Gamergate is toxic and always has been. If you want to discuss legitimate issues, it's best if you distance yourself from the sociopaths rather than flying their banner because they're using your cause to justify misogyny.

 

[jabuseika]

I'm kinda embarrassed to say that i can't actually make heads or tails of this whole thing. There is so much unbridled stupidity and aggressiveness flying around all the time, i don't even know what is what anymore.

Gamergate and Anti-gamergate has become all about getting an angry twitter mob to do "justice" for you.

Both sides have don't wrong things, and I can't support either.

 

[Cat Party]

I am in full support of the OP.

 

[KojiKnight]

This is why I normally stay out of gamer's gate threads... If you show any sort of disinterest or even so much as not showing your 100% game face, you're somehow pinned as either unfeeling towards the plight of people threatened (I do care and I'm totally against physical or mental abuse of anyone, male or female) or you could pidgeonholed as one of the people.

I'll excuse myself from this thread now.

 

[Wensih]

Trying to stop an internet hate war is like trying to stop fusion from occurring in the sun. It's dumb, but it's the internet.

Edit:



Most of gamergate is upset at a completely separate issue and aren't really supporting death threats, but if people want to lump them altogether, well that's how things keep escalating. It's all stupid.

It's kind of unavoidable when they're ascribing to a group. Individuality is lost when you identify as a group.

 

[Steel]

And in the process of letting these harassers have the floor, minority voices will be too afraid to speak up or try to make games, because basically anything remotely labelled "SWJ's" gets a storm of hatred and attack.

Best thing to do is to show the industry as separate from those who drive people out. Minimize the damage.

Letting the harassers have what floor? If you ask the average gamer what gamergate is they wouldn't have a single clue what you're talking about. This isn't some debate in some official public forum, it's just shit slinging in the back alley's. There are plenty of places for cooler heads to speak about these issues without getting pulled into the murk.

It's kind of unavoidable when they're ascribing to a group. Individuality is lost when you identify as a group.

That's like saying all Republicans or all Democrats are the same because they ascribe to a group. People who throw out one random tweet with #gamergate likely don't even know all the facts, they just see a fraction of an issue they care about talk about it once or twice then walk away. Even the ones that do talk about it a lot probably don't see #gamergate as a part of their identity.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I think anyone making death threats should be investigated by the FBI or some government agency.

But I cant believe there are assholes like that who are nothing but bullying women just because its the internet. Yea they are giving everyone a bad rep but how can you control these assholes from spewing hate?

Build a culture where women are not threatened like this when they speak out on a topic as simple as video games:

&#8220;I will write my manifesto in her spilled blood, and you will all bear witness to what feminist lies and poison have done to the men of America.&#8221;

 

[DNAbro]

I haven't visited that thread once and don't even understand what it's about. I would assume the whole buying rewards for sex bullshit? Then again I stopped to care about those sites years ago(aside GT for review videos). If you want to stop it don't visit the thread and take part in the conversation would be my suggestion.

At least read the thread before commenting on it. the gamergate thread is just for discussion about what is currently going on in it, there is practically no support for it in the thread.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

why didn't i think of that? just let the constant harassment of women go unchecked! that'll work

These woman should call the police if they get death threats, IGN won't be able to save it from it, actually it will put more gasoline into it.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I have to agree with you OP. I miss the days when games were just about having fun. Now it seems like bicker and fight about the littlest things. It seems people forgot why we play games anymore.
Both sides are wrong in their own ways.

 

[Objectively Bad Opinion]

a primer

wow, that's crazy

also, apparently Obama supports GG?

 

[QuantumZebra]

These woman should call the police if they get death threats, IGN won't be able to save it from it, actually it will put more gasoline into it.

IGN might be able to say "Hey everyone, if you see someone harassing women, inform them it's a bad thing and they are bad people".

I don't get how hard this is.

 

[MilesWebber]

Gamers gate isn't about women, feminism or misogyny. It's about corruption of journalists and the lack of any journalistic integrity in the gaming industry. Don't get caught up in the social justice noise when the real issue is corruption and nepotism. I urge you all to do research outside of this surface drama and come to your own conclusions. Do not react to this obvious bait for attention.

 

[Quote]

Yes because I've participated in this clusterfuck, yep, I'm part of the gamergate movement, you caught me. Or you know, maybe I'm not part of gamergate and don't really participate in this type of shit and actually do care about equality in gaming and see that this argument is clearly pointless. The problem originates in people slinging shit everywhere, regardless of side, like what you're doing right here. If you make an accusation toward someone, whether or not that accusation holds any water, of course they'll respond to it. It's self-perpetuating.

"but its the internet" is hand-wavy. Its not an excuse. There is a group behind "the internet" and the harassment, it is not explained away with "just deal with it?"

"most of gamergate" is the same group of people who are too busy saying "its not us! don't lump us together!" You don't get to be treated as individuals in a movement. Also, where is any of the good that "most of gamergate" has brought to journalistic ethics?

They're a hate group, and people have a right to point it out. People have a right to be scared, and most of all people have a right to take a stand against it. You can be hand-wavy if you want, but maybe you should take your own advice, i'm "just the internet"

 

[Dre_G_Writer]

I dont even know what gamersgate is.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

These woman should call the police if they get death threats, IGN won't be able to save it from it, actually it will put more gasoline into it.

What do you think they've been doing

guess why they're not taken seriously

 

[Realyn]

At least read the thread before commenting on it. the gamergate thread is just for discussion about what is currently going on in it, there is practically no support for it in the thread.

And the OP of this thread wants to see it stopped and that's what I'm commenting on.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Gamergate and Anti-gamergate has become all about getting an angry twitter mob to do "justice" for you.

Both sides have don't wrong things, and I can't support either.

Pretty much my thoughts, I was very disappointed to find out that the "other side" stooped to doxxing and threats, too. This is too toxic to get involved with.

 

[SkyOdin]

People blaming gamergate for psycos acting psyco have no concept of how crazy people work.

The threats are all

A. A minority of trolls who just want to get a rise out of people and are not real threats.

B. Genuinely crazy/potentially violent people who don't need gamergate to be crazy and potentially violent.


At this point everyone making threats genuine or not, and all the press constantly circlejerking/lumping all of gaming in with said psycos can all get fucked together and leave me out of their attention whoring bullshit.

This kind of thinking completely ignores the reality that people's thoughts and actions are shaped by the society they dwell in. These ideas don't come from nowhere, they come from other people and society at large.

Even "trolls" aren't something that just happens. Trolling is a culture, one that is in fact celebrated in large parts of the internet. People troll because other people tell them that it is a cool thing to do. As such, "trolls" are a social problem, born from social norms. Just passing it off that "trolls exist, deal with it" completely ignores these factors. Pretending that trolls are an unchangable phenomenon prevents us from actually figuring how and why this troll culture developed and where it is rooted. We should be asking "who is encouraging this phenomenon, and why did it evolve?"

 

[-PXG-]

I still don't even know what gamer gate is. I can't be bothered to even find out. I simply don't give a shit. I suggest you shouldn't either.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Letting the harassers have what floor? If you ask the average gamer what gamergate is they wouldn't have a single clue what you're talking about. This isn't some debate in some official public forum, it's just shit slinging in the back alley's. There are plenty of places for cooler heads to speak about these issues without getting pulled into the murk.

This isn't back alley. This is every woman in game development on Twitter, waiting until its their turn. Every game journalist I follow, every game developer I follow. They've all been impacted by this. Everybody's walking on egg shells, waiting until its their turn to be thrown into a massive storm of hatred and harassment, with their information posted publicly and their children threatened.

 

[Dartastic]

wow, that's crazy

also, apparently Obama supports GG?

Naw dude, that's Barrack. Not Barack.

IGN might be able to say "Hey everyone, if you see someone harassing women, inform them it's a bad thing and they are bad people".

I don't get how hard this is.

.