Support NeoGAF

[Petrae]

But for technology to advance and games to grow this stuff is gonna happen and will drive us to get better Internet etc.

Except that ISPs aren't going to start dropping data caps or boosting speed because video games.

Eventually the console video game industry is going to endure consumer contraction at the cost of moving to heavy data requirements. Some people will have to choose between playing video games or watching Netflix instead of doing both, in order to stay within cap limits-- and not everyone is going to pick video games.

The writing has been on the wall for years now. At some point, difficult decisions have to be made... including dealing with the inevitability that some people are going to be left behind.

 

[Quotient]

What in the flying fuck are you talking about??

I am getting 4 games. 1 fully remastered, all of which have been retouched, multiplayer maps and game modes coming out my ears.. Thousands of hours of gaming in a 60 dollar package. Greatest value in gaming period.


Yeah its not a big deal.

No its not.

I think you are both missing the point. This is not a bug patch, it is a content patch that could have been placed on a second disc. For those going digital it is no big deal, but those who buy on disc and who may want to play online it is a problem. I know of many in my family who have data-caps where the content patch would consume 75% of it, and others who will be spending significant time downloading the patch.

This doesn't affect me at all, but it is not a great precedent for disc games. I'd hate to buy the next Halo, or Uncharted, or Mass Effect on disc and get home only to have download gigs and gigs of content that the publisher decided to not include on disc.

This may not affect you, but why dismiss others who this will have a legitimate impact on.

Why are people defending actions that are hurting their fellow gamer?

 

[Ghazi]

Guess I'll just download it at a friend's house, RIP.

 

[BradC00]

Eventually the console video game industry is going to endure consumer contraction at the cost of moving to heavy data requirements.

Na. PC gaming hasn't slowed down.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Well it takes a day.

I have 2 friends who both have 2Mb/s connections and they manage downloading big PC games just fine.

I don't say it isn't possible, but it's annoying.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

Except that ISPs aren't going to start dropping data caps or boosting speed because video games.

Eventually the console video game industry is going to endure consumer contraction at the cost of moving to heavy data requirements. Some people will have to choose between playing video games or watching Netflix instead of doing both, in order to stay within cap limits-- and not everyone is going to pick video games.

The writing has been on the wall for years now. At some point, difficult decisions have to be made... including dealing with the inevitability that some people are going to be left behind.

Yup this is true. Good reply. Internet speeds are on the rise but someone is always gonna be alienated. But if companies know they can still make a profit doing this then they won't stop. Entertainment is so ingrained in our culture people are acting like it's as important as food and shelter. But they entertain for money and they will do what they can to make money.

Same thing happened last generation and even this generation with updates to games and consoles. Ps3 updates would take people hours and there was constant complaining.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I think you are both missing the point. This is not a bug patch, it is a content patch that could have been placed on a second disc. For those going digital it is no big deal, but those who buy on disc and who may want to play online it is a problem. I know of many in my family who have data-caps where the content patch would consume 75% of it, and others who will be spending significant time downloading the patch.

This doesn't affect me at all, but it is not a great precedent for disc games. I'd hate to buy the next Halo, or Uncharted, or Mass Effect on disc and get home only to have download gigs and gigs of content that the publisher decided to not include on disc.

This may not affect you, but why dismiss others who this will have a legitimate impact on.

Why are people defending actions that are hurting their fellow gamer?

It really comes down to whether or not you want the developers of a game you like to try and go above and beyond. If people want to complain about extra content, so be it - and my how times have changed. People flipping out over less than 1080p instead of focusing on the quality of the actual game, and other people upset about extra content for a popular game. I know it's not ideal for people with data caps and bad internet signals, but it's not the end of the world either. People are acting like 343 just killed their 1st born. It's really a disservice to 343 imo.

 

[Tall Paul]

lol korea and japan lowest at the moment. Works out as £33.91. Definitely pre ordering digitally so i can get that downloadable update out the way.

Wow. Thanks insane, will give it a look, cheers folks.

 

[i-Lo]

The recent trend of having too much content to fit onto 1 disc? Yeah, I hate having too much stuff.

And what prevents them from getting it on a second disc like other games on 360? No one is arguing the merits of the amount content here just the ability to access it.

 

[Quotient]

And what prevents them from getting it on a second disc like other games on 360? No one is arguing the merits of the amount content here just the ability to access it.

Exactly.

 

[Raide]

And what prevents them from getting it on a second disc like other games on 360? No one is arguing the merits of the amount content here just the ability to access it.

They would have to delay the launch and they don't want to miss out on the November potentially big sales. Its a pure business thing. The 20Gb update is just what they have to do to get it out in time.

 

[Vestal]

Are you serious? This is a slap in the face to all the halo fans from yesteryear. 343 didn't shoot themselves in the foot, they shot themselves in the HEAD with this mishap.

I fully expect MCC to sell less than 100k LIFETIME with fans voting with their wallets.

Here's an idea don't fucking buy it. Done and done.

I'm a halo fan and this collection is a fucking love letter to me. I don't give a shit if I had to download 1tb, I would do it in a instant because of what I am purchasing for 59.99.. Greatest value in gaming period.

Lol at the less than 100k. A troll if I ever saw one.

 

[Kariodude]

They would have to delay the launch and they don't want to miss out on the November potentially big sales. Its a pure business thing. The 20Gb update is just what they have to do to get it out in time.

That's implying they only recently discovered that they would need a 20gb update. Before the first disc was ever printed they already knew there would be a considerable update, they just chose not to have 2 discs.

 

[Vestal]

And what prevents them from getting it on a second disc like other games on 360? No one is arguing the merits of the amount content here just the ability to access it.

Possible technical issues with the Xbox one. I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but introducing a 2nd disc to the equation could possibly cause issues regarding how the xbone handles said disc. It could be a contingency the OS engineering team had not taken into consideration to be an issue so early in the console life cycle.

 

[BeforeU]

I think you are both missing the point. This is not a bug patch, it is a content patch that could have been placed on a second disc. For those going digital it is no big deal, but those who buy on disc and who may want to play online it is a problem. I know of many in my family who have data-caps where the content patch would consume 75% of it, and others who will be spending significant time downloading the patch.

This doesn't affect me at all, but it is not a great precedent for disc games. I'd hate to buy the next Halo, or Uncharted, or Mass Effect on disc and get home only to have download gigs and gigs of content that the publisher decided to not include on disc.

This may not affect you, but why dismiss others who this will have a legitimate impact on.

Why are people defending actions that are hurting their fellow gamer?

There will always be SOMETHING about a game will affect SOMEONE in the world. This is 2014, we live in a age where internet is in our front and center. Now I know there are certain region and cities where they have shitty internets and no doubt it will affect some people. But this isn't developers fault. In times when industry is trying to go all digital, delivering 2 bluray disk and system update to support two bulray disk install just doesn't make sense. This is one game and in 2 years there will be many other to follow because its inevitable, game sizes will increase and multiple bluray disk won't be viable option to deliver. Are you still going to complain about this thing for every game? So soon enough, ISP and shitty internet services in certain region will be thing of the past.

So what I am trying to say is, its sucks to have a bandwidth cap, and it sucks to have a shitty internet service but for me it sucks to have the game release in fall. I was free all summer, but that doesn't mean for my convenience I am going to blame developer for not releasing it soon. Good luck to folks who will be affected by this. But 343 is doing what they can, single player will be playable and if you buy the game digital, the update will download few days before the game releases.

 

[Syriel]

I do, but I was under the assumption that it wasnt the same size as the content on the disc. I apologize for that one. This is probably why I shouldn't argue about things for a system I don't own yet ;-;

Yep, identical installs. That's why you can do things like the following poster.

Might be most of the whole game...anecdotally I sold my disc copy of Titan Fall and then later downloaded the digital version; it only took 10 seconds.

That's because digital and disc content is the same.

If you install a game via disc, it is the same as installing it via download. When you try to run an installed XBO game, it checks for a license (account, console or disc). If it finds one of the three, it starts. If not, it throws an error, telling you to either buy a copy or insert a disc.

The inverse is also true. If you pre-order (and thus pre-download), you have the game content on your system. If you cancel the pre-order, and then pick up the retail disc, the retail disc will not have to install.

Some folks with crap internet have used Redbox to "rent and install" games they wanted to own digitally. Since the license files are small, you could do the actual purchase bit over a slow cell connection and not have an issue as the game itself would already be installed.

 

[OraleeWey]

I don't see what the big foofaraw is with this 20gb update. By the time Halo MCC comes out, you should have everything ready to go even if you have a slow internet speed.

 

[Patroclos]

But why the fuck should we have to think or care about it from MS perspective? We are consumers and should get the full product if we are paying for physical disks. I just really, really hate this from the perspective that someday we may never really be able to fully play this collection as more data needs to be downloaded for it to work. In the future these disks might be nothing but coasters.

Nobody here gives a single fuck. They just want their Halo. Too many 343/MS defenders/apologists here with a "deal with it" mentality.

1) They don't give a shit what sort of precedent this sets for MS physical games. This is the company that did not want us to have physical games from the jump. It's a slippery slope when we allow them to gate off what they, by their own admission call "content".

2) If it's not content like they say, and they are still working on it they failed to make their release date timeline, is that the consumer's fault? Why should the consumer take the hit because MS needs to get this out for the holiday?

3) What happens when the first single player game larger than 1 Blu-Ray appears? What happens if Sony ships a game on 2 disks? I'm sure Microsoft will be totally happy saying "Our system just can't use game data on two disks" then. Flip that "unflippable" switch again MS, nobody but "the base" believes you.

4) Blu rays are expensive. Bwahahahaahahaha!

5) The only people paying the price for this decision are the consumers, MS/34 reap all the benefits.

The "deal with it" defensiveness and 1st world elitist attitude on display by many is right in line with what I would expect of some people who are used to dat "feel of first class", I'm glad some are making their voices heard that this is unacceptable. MS continues to be anti-consumer again and again and again. And people wonder why they can't regain consumer trust and mindshare?

There are some real issues that are setting precedents about how games are finished, how release dates are met, how much data is reasonable for consumers to download and perhaps most importantly how actual game "content" is being cut from the physical edition.

These are serious concerns that affect all console owners and game players this gen and people are dismissive when they should be looking closely and examining the situation. But. But. Its Halo...

Also, I'd like to add that people who are negating the expense of adding a second disc are forgetting that MS likely hasn't even designed a 2-disc game case for the Xbox One.

This is the best one yet. So the consumer pays for Microsoft, the corporate giant's, shortsightedness? I'm sure that design process for a new case would be a nightmare.... Seriously?

 

[Patroclos]

Comments in this thread are disgusting and makes me sad. Instead of being grateful about what you are getting out of 60$ game, some people think they are entitled to something. Even if MS goes to everyone's house to hand deliver this game, they will find something to complain about. You have a slow internet? data cap? well tough shit. You get my sympathy but don't sit here and dictate how they should have done. Blame your self for getting shitty internet, blame your ISP and blame the city you live in. World doesn't revolve around you. Most games these days comes with day one update, but this one is probably 18GB more than most games. Lazy developers? cheap bastards? are you fucking kidding me man.

"Fortunately we have products for people who aren't able to get good connectivity or lack drive space: They are called Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary, Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo 4."

Nice attitude.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Nobody here gives a single fuck. They just want their Halo.

Yeah!!! Wooo!

 

[clav]

Should MS delay the physical release then?

Seems like the only plausible solution.

 

[ryan299]

Wish they would release this download even if you aren't buying the game digitally. I have 30mbs but it's still going to be a pain to download it on day 1

 

[Montresor]

Nobody here gives a single fuck. They just want their Halo. Too many 343/MS defenders/apologists here with a "deal with it" mentality.

1) They don't give a shit what sort of precedent this sets for MS physical games. This is the company that did not want us to have physical games from the jump. It's a slippery slope when we allow them to gate off what they, by their own admission call "content".

2) If it's not content like they say, and they are still working on it they failed to make their release date timeline, is that the consumer's fault? Why should the consumer take the hit because MS needs to get this out for the holiday?

3) What happens when the first single player game larger than 1 Blu-Ray appears? What happens if Sony ships a game on 2 disks? I'm sure Microsoft will be totally happy saying "Our system just can't use game data on two disks" then. Flip that "unflippable" switch again MS, nobody but "the base" believes you.

4) Blu rays are expensive. Bwahahahaahahaha!

5) The only people paying the price for this decision are the consumers, MS/34 reap all the benefits.

The "deal with it" defensiveness and 1st world elitist attitude on display by many is right in line with what I would expect of some people who are used to dat "feel of first class", I'm glad some are making their voices heard that this is unacceptable. MS continues to be anti-consumer again and again and again. And people wonder why they can't regain consumer trust and mindshare?

There are some real issues that are setting precedents about how games are finished, how release dates are met, how much data is reasonable for consumers to download and perhaps most importantly how actual game "content" is being cut from the physical edition.

These are serious concerns that affect all console owners and game players this gen and people are dismissive when they should be looking closely and examining the situation. But. But. Its Halo...



This is the best one yet. So the consumer pays for Microsoft, the corporate giant's, shortsightedness? I'm sure that design process for a new case would be a nightmare.... Seriously?

Woo, a lot of anger there. What if that 20GB of content is content that is being worked on up until day of release? Which means it would be truly impossible to place it on a disc, since it's content being worked on after the game has gone gold and after discs have been printed. That would mean there are equal parts negative (this screws over people with bandwidth caps and slow internet) and equal parts positive (we get extra content that legitimately could not have made it on disc in time for release) to this story.

If that is the case, do we really need that rant from Patroclos?

You can take this back if 343 has confirmed that they have stopped working on the game and that the 20GB content is already complete as of this exact moment.

 

[sam777]

Nobody here gives a single fuck. They just want their Halo.

Can't wait if I am honest. On a serious note it is disappointing the content download is massive and it is not ready yet because if it were we would be able to digital download it now. So the only other option is to delay the game a few weeks but that was never going to happen.

 

[i-Lo]

They would have to delay the launch and they don't want to miss out on the November potentially big sales. Its a pure business thing. The 20Gb update is just what they have to do to get it out in time.

If that's the case then in all honesty, shame on them. Personally, I would like to believe that 343 had little choice in the matter given the amount of care and time they're putting into the remastering. THIS is Remastering done right in terms of content value and done wrong when it comes to delivering it to market.

 

[clav]

Woo, a lot of anger there. What if that 20GB of content is content that is being worked on up until day of release? Which means it would be truly impossible to place it on a disc, since it's content being worked on after the game has gone gold and after discs have been printed. That would mean there are equal parts negative (this screws over people with bandwidth caps and slow internet) and equal parts positive (we get extra content that legitimately could not have made it on disc in time for release) to this story.

If that is the case, do we really need that rant from Patroclos?

You can take this back if 343 has confirmed that they have stopped working on the game and that the 20GB content is already complete as of this exact moment.

The way I see it since we haven't really seen online footage, a lot of the netcode is not finalized. Altering one part of the engine affects all the games perhaps.

 

[bidguy]

after 4 hours 15% lol

this is gonna take some time

 

[Patroclos]

Should MS delay the physical release then?

Seems like the only plausible solution.

Yes. That's what game makers do when they fail to meet deadlines.

 

[Montresor]

Yes. That's what game makers do when they fail to meet deadlines.

This is crazy. You have a point if, and only if, the game is complete, and Microsoft is trying to cut corners and save pennies by avoiding packaging in a second disc.

It is completely unreasonable to demand a delayed release, if the game is not complete (as of today, Oct 18th 2014) and 343 is working on the game, adding new content up until day of release, forcing a large update on MCC players. Why should the game be delayed for everyone, when the game is going to be complete 100% when November 11th, the intended release date, rolls around?

Maybe a good compromise would be to have the second round of printed copies (i.e. in March maybe) have a second disc.

 

[clav]

Yes. That's what game makers do when they fail to meet deadlines.

So basically Last Guardian it.

Just never release anything in a world when people demand everything now (i.e. agile software development).

 

[Vestal]

Yes. That's what game makers do when they fail to meet deadlines.

Wow some of the posts on this thread. Just so much salt.

 

[Caja 117]

I'm a halo fan and this collection is a fucking love letter to me. I don't give a shit if I had to download 1tb, I would do it in a instant because of what I am purchasing for 59.99.. Greatest value in gaming period.

This is the best post on this thread, and is exactly how i feel.

 

[soul creator]

Should MS delay the physical release then?

Seems like the only plausible solution.

"Delaying the physical release to push their DRM digital agenda. Right out of Microsoft's playbook!"

 

[Syriel]

Wish they would release this download even if you aren't buying the game digitally. I have 30mbs but it's still going to be a pain to download it on day 1

20 gb downloaded at 30 mbps = ~90 minutes.

http://www.zen.co.uk/business/online-data-backup/backup-solutions/data-transfer-times.aspx

Now, if you only have a 5 mbps line, then you'll need to leave it on overnight.

 

[Biker19]

lol instead of putting it on a second disc they force consumers to download 20gb of data.

way to save some money.

Which is pretty crappy & lazy. The production costs of Blu-Ray discs shouldn't take more than like, 50 cents to a $1 for each copy produced by now.

 

[Patroclos]

Woo, a lot of anger there. What if that 20GB of content is content that is being worked on up until day of release? Which means it would be truly impossible to place it on a disc, since it's content being worked on after the game has gone gold and after discs have been printed. That would mean there are equal parts negative (this screws over people with bandwidth caps and slow internet) and equal parts positive (we get extra content that legitimately could not have made it on disc in time for release) to this story.

If that is the case, do we really need that rant from Patroclos?

You can take this back if 343 has confirmed that they have stopped working on the game and that the 20GB content is already complete as of this exact moment.

Damn right I'm angry. This is an awful precedent.

Why would I take it back if they have not stopped working on it? Is it better that they are behind on it? That seems more like a red flag. Most games get delayed for that rather than making consumers pay the pice for internal problems.

You act like they are giving free content that they are going to work on right to the end rather than working on the content that should have been included in the first place. What is this mysterious content that so many here act like we are being "given"?

What IS on the physical copy? Halo multiplayer was BUILT on couch co-op/splitscreen, everyone acts like this is online only content. That is patently and blatantly false. Why won't they tell us exactly what physical buyers who choose not to download this update will miss out on?

Are these really unfair questions to ask?

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

^Still going at it with a franchise/fanbase you despise lol

Are you serious?

I fully expect MCC to sell less than 100k LIFETIME with fans voting with their wallets.

Are you serious?

 

[Patroclos]

Maybe a good compromise would be to have the second round of printed copies (i.e. in March maybe) have a second disc.

I'll buy it then. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Coffee Dog]

How in the hell can you spin this as a positive? Microsoft is cheap and lazy, and doesnt want to make two discs when they can just make one and inconvenience the customer.

 

[Bgamer90]

I fully expect MCC to sell less than 100k LIFETIME with fans voting with their wallets.

You are joking right?

You do realize that this game will more than likely continue on selling to people for the whole current gaming generation right?

 

[clav]

"Delaying the physical release to push their DRM digital agenda. Right out of Microsoft's playbook!"

"Yeah just like Killer Instinct. Look how stupid that is! Releasing characters slowly and letting customers play their games now instead of waiting for it to be complete.

Why doesn't everyone just wait for all the characters for a couple of years for a full release? Then you just have to wait a few more years for it to be in the bargain bin.

Microsoft shoving online DRM down customers' throats."

 

[Patroclos]

"Delaying the physical release to push their DRM digital agenda. Right out of Microsoft's playbook!"

Why bother? They already have created a situation where there are serious and pronounced advantages to buying digitally.

 

[BeforeU]

"Fortunately we have products for people who aren't able to get good connectivity or lack drive space: They are called Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary, Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo 4."

Nice attitude.

Yes. That's what game makers do when they fail to meet deadlines.

just looked at your post history. You seems to always claim you have Xbox One don't know why you have brag about that and most of your post are anti MS, and pro Sony. I don't think you even care about Halo, so my question is why are you posting hatred here. Are you even going to buy this game?

 

[Leyasu]

Yes. That's what game makers do when they fail to meet deadlines.

Lol what like sony did with driveclub? Or EA did with bf4??

You're trying far too hard, and are just making yourself look stupid now.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Here's an idea don't fucking buy it. Done and done.

I'm a halo fan and this collection is a fucking love letter to me. I don't give a shit if I had to download 1tb, I would do it in a instant because of what I am purchasing for 59.99.. Greatest value in gaming period.

Lol at the less than 100k. A troll if I ever saw one.

 

[Vestal]

just looked at your post history. You seems to always claim you have Xbox One but most of your post are anti MS, and pro Sony. I don't think you even care about Halo, so my question is why are you posting hatred here. Are you even going to buy this game?

I think he should sum up his posts with "please be concerned"

 

[Leyasu]

just looked at your post history. You seems to always claim you have Xbox One but most of your post are anti MS, and pro Sony. I don't think you even care about Halo, so my question is why are you posting hatred here. Are you even going to buy this game?

Lol that post history... I looked last night smh

 

[Coffee Dog]

just looked at your post history. You seems to always claim you have Xbox One but most of your post are anti MS, and pro Sony. I don't think you even care about Halo, so my question is why are you posting hatred here. Are you even going to buy this game?

How is that even remotely relevant? You can talk shit on companies while owning their consoles, and you can talk about and criticize games you don't own.

 

[BeforeU]

How is that even remotely relevant? You can talk shit on companies while owning their consoles, and you can talk about and criticize games you don't own.

ohh its relevant. In this thread he has the highest number of post. (124 and counting) He has problem with the 20GB update, that cool. Doesn't have to go on and on about that thing. And trying to make it a bigger deal than it is. And based on his history, he doesn't even seem like he is the BIGGEST halo fan out there and genuinely concern about this.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

And what prevents them from getting it on a second disc like other games on 360? No one is arguing the merits of the amount content here just the ability to access it.

I agree. Not having a 2nd disc is just plain silly.