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[ArkkAngel007]

Here are my issues with this, most stemming from that I don't devote more than the bare Daily, Weekly, Nightfall, and Normal Raid cycle if I can even manage that much. For example, today was the first time I've touched the game in a month and only completed a Daily, Weekly, and that Sword of Crota mission for the 60th time for the bounties.

• Difficult to obtain (personally, RNG graced players) AssMats are now essentially a waste and will continue to be increasingly difficult to obtain when in competiton with other materials.
• Speaking of difficult to obtain, let's talk about marks. Vanguard marks aren't too much of an issue as there are a myriad of ways to obtain them, but the cap is so low for both in the inventory and in weekly earnings that marks are lost constantly, while the selection is incredibly small and serves little more than to collect a tiny boost in weekly AssMats (1.5 weeks really due to the caps). Crucible marks on the other hand, which is where the majority of mark-traded gear lies, are terribly difficult on their own to obtain in my experience. Whereas you can reach a VG mark cap in 2-3 days even with modest play, Crucible can take up most of a week at best if you're not rolling with a domination team winning every single match. So on top of all this, suddenly we have to rely on reputation levels as well that we already grinded out to have the 'privilage' to even use our marks to obtain another item that isn't in proportion to the grind to regain the privilage to have a chance to purchase each individual weapon.
• Glimmer is unnecessarily capped and comes in at a bare trickle in comparison to it's varied applications. Generally it isn't much of a problem aside from the few synth shopping sprees for Raid, but the additional Exotic changes tip that out of balance.
• Btw, back to AssMats, it's so nice that all of those that could have went to Legendary items were basically wasted. Even more so when taking into account...
• ...the upgrading of stock Exotics. As noted by others, why couldn't there be another upgrade path at maybe a .75 or .5 experience gain nerf if the threat of maxed out weapons to the game's longevity is so terrible. Which speaks horribly for the game itself if that is such a major problem in Bungie's eyes. And a question about exotic shards; with this upgrade, will I have to spend ANOTHER exotic shard to finish upgrading it along with all the glimmer on top of the 7000 to upgrade+what was wasted on the weapon in the original upgrade path?
• Finally, with new exotics and legendaries, where are we supposed to put them? The vault caps are atrociously low given how the Tower has an abundance of Vault Terminals.

I do understand the need to give players some longevity beyond the content provided by the game. However, it seems the people who've played the longest are being not only punished the worst, but making those of us who haven't been as active or getting poor hands consistently be given less incentive to pursue further time and money to the game. At the same time, it's making it far more difficult for new players to jump in when it comes to the new vendor system.

In my eyes, what makes the game is the social aspects of running Raids/Strikes and being able to clearly set certain goals with leveling and bounties and knowing that you as a player can see the end of that road to achieve them despite the varying grinds. Alongside the fun gunplay of course . While Bungie has made some changes to boost those elements, I feel like they are passing over that in favor of artificially extending the game where that extension hasn't really been proven to be needed, unlike the extension of gameplay and missions that players are actually calling for that have only been marginally addressed.

That's discounting that with every 'fix', 3 more things seem to break in the game in the pursuit of the 'true' experience.

Tl;dr: There are plenty of bottlenecks for the average to moderately enthusiast player in Destiny to allow for suitable progression in gear.

 

[140.85]

Am I correct in parsing the "commendation" stuff as not being a new grind but simply a mechanism for limiting people to one legendary purchase per level up?

 

[Fleet_of_Foot]

Paradox Point has been reached too early and that is thanks to the fact how overall leveling is too fast and majority of content of the game was designed to be +25LV content.

So, they have Impossible Dillema to solve: challenging hardcore that plays and plays and have almost no new challenge and criticizes the game because of that (vocal minority, check the trophies stats and see) or to allow casuals and newcome players to have some progress without timesink.

The newfound solution: punish all of them. Welcome to the Paradox Point.

I would love to be in the shoes of the fresh player that comes into Destiny. Fresh player, with only one friend occassionaly playing. That guy would be LOST AND CONFUSED within one day.

Also, I do not see what will casual majority think about this.

You're describing me. I got to lvl 20 and then stopped. Sometimes I log back in, and want to play...but I have no idea what to do, how to progress.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Am I correct in parsing the "commendation" stuff as not being a new grind but simply a mechanism for limiting people to one legendary purchase per level up?

Technically, it's a new grind if you want to buy anything from them. Before, after rank 3, you didn't have to grind anymore for rank, as all items were available.

 

[E92 M3]

Made sure I won't play again by deleting my characters. Would have traded it all away but meh.

I feel very liberated... it has only been 3 months.

Damn son. I can't do that - enjoy the gunplay way too much.

 

[Marcel]

Why was Glimmer capped at all again? There's barely an economy to speak of.

 

[140.85]

Technically, it's a new grind if you want to buy anything from them. Before, after rank 3, you didn't have to grind anymore for rank, as all items were available.

Ah yes you're right. Wow ugh.

 

[Anton Sugar]

You're describing me. I got to lvl 20 and then stopped. Sometimes I log back in, and want to play...but I have no idea what to do, how to progress.

You reminded me of how utterly horrible the game is at explaining its own systems. Thank god for Hawkian.

 

[purg3]

Am I correct in parsing the "commendation" stuff as not being a new grind but simply a mechanism for limiting people to one legendary purchase per level up?

It's a bit of both, but more of a barrier so people can't get the newer faction gear quickly.

 

[IcyEyes]

You really should have the privilege of having a tag that says "I don't even have time to explain why i don't have time to explain".

Soon or later you will have the privilege to be a member, in the meanwhile, stop to post useless stuff.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Why was Glimmer capped at all again? There's barely an economy to speak of.

While the cap always bothered confused me, it was hardly an issue personally outside of the few instances of buying a surplus of ammunition synths (particularly heavy synths). Which seemed to be the only reason I could see for there being a cap ,despite the 5 minute cooldown already implemented.

But 7000 per exotic in addition to further payouts to reupgrade that tree? That's terrible, and I know my exotic collection pales in comparison to a lot of players.

 

[LollipoPReapeR]

Made sure I won't play again by deleting my characters. Would have traded it all away but meh.

I feel very liberated... it has only been 3 months.

Damn that is pretty drastic. But I guess 'band-aid' and all that....

While the cap always bothered me, it was hardly an issue personally outside of the few instances of buying a surplus of ammunition synths (particularly heavy synths).

But 7000 per exotic in addition to further payouts to reupgrade that tree? That's terrible, and I know my exotic collection pales in comparison to a lot of players.

After IB, I haven't yet broken the 3000 barrier glimmer wise. On a week he brings multiple relevant upgrades, it's gonna be exclusion zone all day erryday

 

[Marcel]

Soon or later you will have the privilege to be a member, in the meanwhile, stop to post useless stuff.

Until you explain your vague-ass post about "dead time" to two people who challenged you, I'd advise you to do the same.

 

[rjcc]

You reminded me of how utterly horrible the game is at explaining its own systems. Thank god for Hawkian.

seriously. if it weren't for his post and a few others, I'd have no idea what to do.

 

[IcyEyes]

Until you explain your vague-ass post about "dead time" to two people who challenged you, I'd advise you to do the same.

Excuse me ?

Edit : I read your latest posts and well, in spite of your smiley and nice avatar, your posts looks pretty sour.
I thought the "dead times" thing is something that any gamer knows, but if you don't know what "dead times" means, there are a lot of nicer ways to ask. I don't understand why some people are so sour ... Is it so hard be a little bit more nice ?

Oh, that's fine. Destiny does some good things, the gameplay is fantastic. Have fun~! I'm sure we'll still be here when you're back, so you'll have alot to read and pore over!

Not so much to read to be honest, but well, I agree with most of the posts I read ... Unfortunately the choice of Bungie to "reset" the old exotic weapon is pretty poor. I mean, I have 7 fully upgraded exotic weapon and I don't think I want to invest another bunch of hours to upgrade "again" the same weapon ... Well, we will see if they will change their mind about that.

 

[Kadin]

I stopped playing the game about a month after launch. I've got a good amount of legendary's and exotics in my stash. With this update coming next week, do I need to do anything with them prior to next week?

Was thinking about jumping back in to get more glimmer and don't want to make any mistakes with my existing gear. I'm a level 28 lock and never pushed further as the raid was never something I honestly cared much to do.

 

[GhaleonEB]

You reminded me of how utterly horrible the game is at explaining its own systems. Thank god for Hawkian.

I was utterly clueless until I read his guides. The game does a remarkably bad job at explaining its systems.

 

[keltickennedy]

Soon or later you will have the privilege to be a member, in the meanwhile, stop to post useless stuff.

I think you missed the joke. lol.

 

[Izuna]

Hahaha for a game you didn't like but still leveled 3 characters for?

Or maybe you did like the game and THIS change was too much for you? Lol

You can addicted to things you don't like. All of Destiny's systems prey of addiction. Nightfalls were fun. Never really difficult, but still fun, but having basically the best you can get in base game all become obsolete is insane. All armour need replacing? Sure, all weapons need replacing/relevelling? I don't know any game that has ever done that before in 3 months. I know the next DLC will do this and so on.

Still going to be interested in what Bungie says, but I should place my gaming time in completing different titles not one thing that is the most frustrating time investment ever.

 

[IcyEyes]

I think you missed the joke. lol.

You too

 

[ArkkAngel007]

I stopped playing the game about a month after launch. I've got a good amount of legendary's and exotics in my stash. With this update coming next week, do I need to do anything with them prior to next week?

Was thinking about jumping back in to get more glimmer and don't want to make any mistakes with my existing gear. I'm a level 28 lock and never pushed further as the raid was never something I honestly cared much to do.

If you want to upgrade Legendaries to at least have an early boost for some of the higher level stuff, keep gunning for AssMats.

As for Exotic Weapons, I wouldn't make too much of an effort if you're interested in obtaining Xur's upgrades. That unless you do decide to start doing Raids or pursuing specific upgrades for certain situations (you're really missing out on good stuff with the Raids).

 

[Diablohead]

Why was Glimmer capped at all again? There's barely an economy to speak of.

bungie love value caps, all their games have stupid cap limits

 

[Meier]

Man. Money is REALLY hard to come by in this game imo. 7k ain't no joke.. I think I've only had over 10k maybe once and I had to blow through all of it on that exotic bounty where you need a shitload of ammo refills.

 

[Izuna]

Man. Money is REALLY hard to come by in this game imo. 7k ain't no joke.. I think I've only had over 10k maybe once and I had to blow through all of it on that exotic bounty where you need a shitload of ammo refills.

First mission of Mars at LV18, kill all Majors, leave one alive and kill yourself. You can get 400-800 every 40 seconds or so. Not including Engrams and Network Codes (they go for 200 each).

 

[blackjaw]

Man. Money is REALLY hard to come by in this game imo. 7k ain't no joke.. I think I've only had over 10k maybe once and I had to blow through all of it on that exotic bounty where you need a shitload of ammo refills.

I use to be capped all the time from grinding mats (chest runs) and grinding rep (Tiger strikes). Thank god for raids so I could buy special ammo packs to keep under the limit.

 

[geordiemp]

Man. Money is REALLY hard to come by in this game imo. 7k ain't no joke.. I think I've only had over 10k maybe once and I had to blow through all of it on that exotic bounty where you need a shitload of ammo refills.

Money is the easiest thing to come by really, Just use the ether mats / black wax idols or whatever for any mission with lots of yellow health bar enemies and you will get loads. There are lots to farm...

The easiest one is using a black wax idol in the sword of crota (lots of yellow bar bosses = money)... You can cap the money in an hour easily.

 

[IcyEyes]

Man. Money is REALLY hard to come by in this game imo. 7k ain't no joke.. I think I've only had over 10k maybe once and I had to blow through all of it on that exotic bounty where you need a shitload of ammo refills.

In the Cosmodrome there are 3 hive major that spawn pretty quickly. 150+ (with the hive boost) every 15 sec. They are located in a room, just follow the dark corridor after you went down to the stair that you can find at the start of the map.
When you arrive in the cosmodrome, go to the left for few meters until you read a very small building with only a stair inside. Go down in the dark and after few meters you will find a room on your right.

 

[Fathead]

This game has become such a joke. Grindy, lack of content, horrible pvp, and they fenced off the best content from huge chunks of their player base. Now, they reward the grind with.....more grind. Oh, and their community lead tells people they are wrong for feeling upset.


Even if he tried to clarify, that attiitude is what the entire game is like. A giant "you are wrong for feeling this way, go grind some more."

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I don't really get the backlash against this system.

It is 100x better than how most other loot based MMOs work, where your
old equipment becomes completely useless because of new stuff.

It seems like a decent solution to me... /shrug

 

[Strider]

I don't really get the backlash against this system.

It is 100x better than how most other loot based MMOs work, where your
old equipment becomes completely useless because of new stuff.

It seems like a decent solution to me... /shrug

Other loot games take way longer than 3 months between these resets though. Most players have only just now maxed there 2-3 favorite weapons... Now they must do it all over again... That sucks so soon after launch.

Diablo 3 for example took almost 2 years to raise the level cap. It was a refreshing experience to have a new cap and all new gear to play for as we had max level items for a long long time and enjoyed them. This is just grindy as hell.

 

[Jarmel]

What happened to this Bungie?

Where are they?

 

[gatti-man]

What are fantasy RPGs with more distinct party roles supposed to learn from sci-fi first-person shooter gameplay again?

Real time combat. Get away from the dice roll time based stuff. Make the gameplay more fun, more addicting. Thats why destiny wont go away no matter how many posts you make. Its at base incredibly fun to play. No mmo is fun to grind but destiny absolutely is.

You can addicted to things you don't like. All of Destiny's systems prey of addiction. Nightfalls were fun. Never really difficult, but still fun, but having basically the best you can get in base game all become obsolete is insane. All armour need replacing? Sure, all weapons need replacing/relevelling? I don't know any game that has ever done that before in 3 months. I know the next DLC will do this and so on.

Still going to be interested in what Bungie says, but I should place my gaming time in completing different titles not one thing that is the most frustrating time investment ever.

Its only obsolete against hard mode raid dlc. I dont understand this notion that all your gear is now shit. Its not true. Normal crota is the same level as hard glass. Guess what? The same gear will work the same way.

all you will need to level is your select stuff for select content. This isnt some horrible thing.

 

[Freshmaker]

I don't really get the backlash against this system.

It is 100x better than how most other loot based MMOs work, where your
old equipment becomes completely useless because of new stuff.

It seems like a decent solution to me... /shrug

Or they could not make you regrind weapons. Seems a better solution. (shrug)

 

[Sweet Ivy]

Real time combat. Get away from the dice roll time based stuff. Make the gameplay more fun, more addicting. Thats why destiny wont go away no matter how many posts you make. Its at base incredibly fun to play. No mmo is fun to grind but destiny absolutely is.

I agree.
It keeps being challenging, you need to always stay focused and have some skill.
It does lack some content/variety, but it's a solid shooter.

 

[CraigerGamer]

In the Cosmodrome there are 3 hive major that spawn pretty quickly. 150+ (with the hive boost) every 15 sec. They are located in a room, just follow the dark corridor after you went down to the stair that you can find at the start of the map.
When you arrive in the cosmodrome, go to the left for few meters until you read a very small building with only a stair inside. Go down in the dark and after few meters you will find a room on your right.

After killing those three dudes, head out of the room and take a right. There will be a staircase heading up to another level where the large bank of computers is, to the left of the there is a small room with three easy enemies. The room they come out of has a random chest spawn. I spend about 30 minutes going between the two rooms and can pretty much max my glimmer and collect tons of spinmetal at the same time. A public event also spawns above you pretty regularly too. Pretty simple and painless.

 

[Altima]

What the FUCK ??????

I have to grind for 7 days to fully upgrade an exotic weapon and they ask me to do that again for all my exotic weapons. ??????

I should not preorder DLC pack. At this rate I do not want to play the game anymore.

 

[Izuna]

Real time combat. Get away from the dice roll time based stuff. Make the gameplay more fun, more addicting. Thats why destiny wont go away no matter how many posts you make. Its at base incredibly fun to play. No mmo is fun to grind but destiny absolutely is.



Its only obsolete against hard mode raid dlc. I dont understand this notion that all your gear is now shit. Its not true. Normal crota is the same level as hard glass. Guess what? The same gear will work the same way.

all you will need to level is your select stuff for select content. This isnt some horrible thing.

Semantics, but obsolete means there is something undeniably better in all circumstances. A new elemental legendary does that to all prior legendaries. Why else would Bungie make it impossible to buy older ones?

 

[gatti-man]

Semantics, but obsolete means there is something undeniably better in all circumstances. A new elemental legendary does that to all prior legendaries. Why else would Bungie make it impossible to buy older ones?

Then its no obsolete by your own definition.

 

[Ichabod]

Destiny has, without a doubt, been my biggest gaming regret in my 25+ years of gaming. Such a waste of potential, compounded by awful ideas like this. Never again, Bungie.

 

[Izuna]

Then its no obsolete by your own definition.

The Supremacy, a weapon you can no longer get, is one I have in Arc. There will be a new Arc Sniper that can go above 300, making my Sniper pretty much useless to carry along. All this weapon is, what I'm attached to, has become 3 shards and 2 wires...

Before Hard Raid, there will be little reason to even have a 300 Weapon, as you state. So I could have just had not levelled anything and used them for getting the new Legendaries, which will be obsolete by the next DLC, 6 months in?

The Vex will be the only thing I acquired that won't be obsolete. Everything else was purchasable from Xur and was pointless to level up.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Or they could not make you regrind weapons. Seems a better solution. (shrug)

But....you don't have to? The weapons aren't suddenly useless, they are just going to be out-classed by new weapons.

So you still have the option, which is usually the ONLY option in MMOs, or not using your old weapons for the new content and hoping RNGesus blesses you even though you are a dirty sinner.

Or you can pick the weapons you really like and just grind them again to be on par with the new content.

For example, in FFXIV I was an idiot and spent a bunch of the in-game currency on something called Myth gear for my Dragoon alt before the newest updates. That gear is now completely useless and outclassed by other gear that is now just as easy to get. I would have been better off keeping the currency and exchanging it for the next tier currency instead.

There is no way to upgrade that gear. It was basically a waste unless I plan to use it as a glamour item. This is a normal occurrence in almost every MMO ever.

 

[CraigerGamer]

What the FUCK ??????

I have to grind for 7 days to fully upgrade an exotic weapon and they ask me to do that again for all my exotic weapons. ??????

I should not preorder DLC pack. At this rate I do not want to play the game anymore.

choose an option

1. Don't upgrade your weapon. You can keep all your fancy upgrades but your weapon will be obsolete for the most difficult parts of the game so just don't play them.

2. Don't upgrade your weapon and use it for all strikes/missions/PvP you do now and hope the RNG hits and you get a new exotic. Use the new exotic on the more difficult levels of the game where you can enjoy upgrading your new weapon while playing the new content.

3. Upgrade your current exotic weapon which will allow it to become even more powerful yet in exchange, you lose your perks. Use said weapon on all the new content coming which will allow you to add back on the perks you no longer have.

All are pretty reasonable solutions. Pick one and enjoy the wonderful game mechanics and adventure that awaits. Bungie didn't do anything here other than try and put more longevity in the weapon you spent so many hours upgrading instead of having it become obsolete as soon as the DLC is released.

 

[Ateron]

So basically they are making legendaries useless, on top of making me grind all the way again just to keep my exotic collection relevant?

They fail to realize that you can only hold one exotic at a time, meaning you will have 2 slots occupied with 2 sub-par weapons. Are they adding new legendaries as well? Even if they are, that whole "commendation" deal seems stupid. If I have the marks, I go and buy what I want. Having to level up each time is stupid. This is seriously killing my hype and I don't think I want to support this anymore.

And for the changes they say they will apply to the new raid (more easy to find loot, the game will "track" the gear you already obtained so you don't get shortchanged with a copy of what you already have) are nice features, but why on earth wasn't it patched in waaay earlier? I lost interest in the raid cause I either got nothing (except for 2 weapons) or duplicate armor. It doesn't help that you can only do it once per week. Two, if you have a clone character (which I have, but it only shows how poorly designed the loot system is).


And now they want us to grind everything again, just to make up for the fact that the game is starved for content and they think this is an apt substitute for it? Why not just add another column at the end of each weapon? Make it so it takes more XP to fill or something, but don't take all progress away.

If I want to keep an exotic relevant, cause it's better for my playstyle, or has an element I like, or is fun to play with (doesn't matter which), I have to have 7000glimmer, 14 coins to buy 2 shards, reset the gun, spend another week dumping bounties xp on it, and top it off with another shard. All in a game that in normal conditions (a single character) will only secure you, with a 100% certainty, 9 coins. And the cherry on top is that you can only upgrade the ones Xur deems worthy that week, so bless me RNGesus. This does nothing except artificially inflate the longevity of this game.

If they had a token system, in which I would gain them from partaking in activities, such as pvp, nightfall, solo nightfall, raid (normal and hard) and then could decide on what to spend them (you know, like STRANGE COINS?) it would make me want to play as three different classes instead of cloning my hunter and missing out on 2 thirds of what the game has to offer, because it was designed by morons. Am I missing the chest piece? no problem, will just raid a bit and get the tokens for it. It's better than patiently waiting another week to roll the dice, and come back empty handed.

Creating alt characters is just a bandaid for a bad system, in which you have to do it just to have the chance to roll the dice again.

The last 2 nightfalls (4 in total, as I use 2 chars) gave me 6 strange coins, 6 ass shards, 11 ass shards and..a comedian, funnily enough. I now have 3 exotic helmets/2 legendary helmets, 3 gloves, chest pieces: 2 legendary/3 exotic, and 3 boots (one from raid) all maxed out. I still have 120 ass shards to burn after all this. Me and my friends are even making bets on how many shards each nightfall will give me, at least it makes for some laughs. Not everyone is blessed by rng and it sucks when you are this close to lvl 30 but the game will tell you : nope. Keep trying bro!

And know they're basically saying: well, you'll grind for new weapons and armor, even though it might be harder since you're not 30 ehehe. And if you don't like the new weapons and want to go back to your favorites, fear not, we have the solution! Just reset them, pay 7K/14 coins for each and burn yourself out on repetitive missions just to complete the same old bounties so you can get back to where you where 2 weeks ago! This will make the game more compelling, for sure.

The game has extremely fun gunplay but this isn't the news I wanted to hear.
Fuck. I know, I know, I'm ranting. Fuck, I'm old.

 

[Lothars]

The exotic change is one that makes sense and should have made sense with the upgrade, the exception is this week when users might have already used exotic shards to update exotics since patch. anyone that used the upgrade should be refunded the exotic shards until they can update the gun to 331.

Now The legendary change makes no sense at all, It's backwards and really hurts everyone.

That's the one people should be outraged about. I don't get the outrage of the exotics.

 

[Kadin]

Is it fair to say they waited as long as they could to spring this on everyone or would that be a tad too pessimistic?

 

[breakfuss]

The exotic change is one that makes sense and should have made sense with the upgrade, the exception is this week when users might have already used exotic shards to update exotics since patch. anyone that used the upgrade should be refunded the exotic shards until they can update the gun to 331.

Now The legendary change makes no sense at all, It's backwards and really hurts everyone.

That's the one people should be outraged about. I don't get the outrage of the exotics.

Because...we have to completely re-level them.

 

[Lothars]

Because...we have to completely re-level them.

Which isn't a big deal if you want the upgraded exotic, It's a fair trade off if you want an exotic with the max damage for the dlc.

I think the legendary change is the worst thing they could have done and really deserves to be called out on.

 

[TEH-CJ]

lol what is this from?

 

[Ateron]

The exotic change is one that makes sense and should have made sense with the upgrade, the exception is this week when users might have already used exotic shards to update exotics since patch. anyone that used the upgrade should be refunded the exotic shards until they can update the gun to 331.

Now The legendary change makes no sense at all, It's backwards and really hurts everyone.

That's the one people should be outraged about. I don't get the outrage of the exotics.

I'm also pissed about the legendaries. People seem to forget that you can only hold one exotic at a time. That means two of your weapons will shoot peanuts at enemies in the new raid, since they're capped at 300, and most people aren't 30, so there's that penalty too. What's gonna happen to raid legendaries? VoC is amazing, it won't be anymore after this, same goes for Fatebringer, Hezen Vengeance, Epilogue, you name it. Since they don't qualify as exotics, they're a dead end in terms of new content. I loved The Swarm, Shadow Price and Vanquisher. They will all turn into shit tier once this hits.

And for those who aren't 30, this is gonna make nighfall missions harder. It's like they're literally saying: "either suck it up and keep raiding the vault till you get lucky, or buy our fucking expansion so you can somehow score a missing piece and reach 30; otherwise you're locked to weeklies and dailies".

 

[Izuna]

lol what is this from?

Dexter Season 8 I think. Gif made me quit the show.