FinalStageBoss
Banned
MS will get rid of it eventually, it's a stupid clause. So what if you get games later, I saw many happy posters because shovel knight is finally coming to ps4. A good game is a good game.
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[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
Oh I understand, but getting the game into more players hands is a great start for future title awareness.
I also fully expect PvZ: Warfare to be one of the first GwG free games to get people who haven't played it on board.
John Bender
Banned
PlayStation was always about variety. A large, wide variety of games!
Not only does the XB parity clause suck. Nope, guys like Shahid, Adam Boyes, Gio Corsi, etc. are doing an amazing, AMAZING job.
Just my two cents here.
Not only does the XB parity clause suck. Nope, guys like Shahid, Adam Boyes, Gio Corsi, etc. are doing an amazing, AMAZING job.
Just my two cents here.
hydrophilic attack
Member
they all should be ashamed
Great thread
Great thread
I don't see how the clause could remain in place when it is very obvious that it is achieving the exact opposite of what it was intended to do (having more games first on XB1).
In fact, we should hope that the clause would get cancelled sooner rather than later, both because it would be the right thing for small devs, but also because as time passes it can only get worse with the PS4 install base growing (WW) much more than the XB1 one, possibly making some smaller devs think that it's not even worth developping -at all- on Xbox.
In fact, we should hope that the clause would get cancelled sooner rather than later, both because it would be the right thing for small devs, but also because as time passes it can only get worse with the PS4 install base growing (WW) much more than the XB1 one, possibly making some smaller devs think that it's not even worth developping -at all- on Xbox.
djblackice
Member
I just got 100% on my trophy list for your game. Just wanted to say good job on the title and hope it pans out well for you both financially and personally.
justsomeguy
Member
ShowMeTheReceipts.jpg.
Let me start by reiterating: I broadly agree with the OP.
In "exclusives" discussion threads, there's always a few posts saying "exclusives don't sell consoles". If that's true then it's unlikely that indies sell consoles either.
You can *definitely* find people who will go PS4 over XBox because of indie games (there's at least one in this thread). Similarly you can *definitely* find people who will go Xbox over PS4 because of exclusives (and vice versa, of course).
Point being, it's all anecdotal: unless you have statistical proof that the impact of indie games on sales is significant then statements like the above are conjecture only - and are probably why MS aren't showing any signs of changing course at the moment.
You edited out the "don't argue PS4 vs XBO" bit but I feel like this thread is doing pretty well avoiding that, save for a few instances.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Lack of games is not a variable?
Because PS4 has been rolling in plenty of games because of the great indie games to fill up the gap. Can't say the same for Xbone.
Steverulez
Member
Theres an Xbox feedback post for this with over 900 votes if anyone else wanted to join in on it (although ironically Oddworld is coming to XB1)
Perhaps if more people voted it would move up the list (wasn't on the first page despite the amount of votes it had)
Cant hurt the chances anyway, although perhaps tweeting them (in a respectful/polite way) would be just as effective.
Perhaps if more people voted it would move up the list (wasn't on the first page despite the amount of votes it had)
Cant hurt the chances anyway, although perhaps tweeting them (in a respectful/polite way) would be just as effective.
I'm absolutely flabbergasted by the people who still belittle indie games when the biggest game of the last generation and a true KA that sold consoles was indeed a little indie game named Minecraft.
Indie games are a vital part of this industry, even more than those AAA games, they have replaced the middle-tier game.
Indie games are a vital part of this industry, even more than those AAA games, they have replaced the middle-tier game.
There is nothing wrong with conjecture.
Not having the full set of information does not preclude proper and correct analysis, and it's counterproductive to imply that it does.
Yah I just came back and saw a few posts and posted it before reading the rest. Bad move by me which is why I changed it.
LowEndTorque
Member
A dumb idea cooked up by some suits back when their product was in a better market position and they thought they had the leverage to pull this nonsense off. And now they're reaping what they've sown.
Sorry, it's not armchair. It's a fact. He factually keeps making an argument about how 'not important' indies are to people, when that has nothing to do with the thread. It's a selfish argument equal to "well since less people care about the issue it's less important to discuss or fix."
Similarly, he tops it off with fanboy nonsense about how this is SonyGAF and he's tired of hearing mean shit about Microsoft, when this topic has nothing to do with that.
Truth is the truth. If he doesn't like it, he shouldn't share that nonsense.
Voted.
Maybe they see stories about how X indie game is finally coming to Xbox One as a distraction to their big splash announcements.
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
I'm so glad I've bought a PS4. I <3 indies.
that sounds plausible for sure.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I'm not understanding the "outrage" in this context. Look, in a corporate landscape there are no ends to the bureaucracy. I could imagine that in a company like Microsoft, just the way management works, that it will take years to get these things changed, and that's "snappy".
My manager used to say, - prove it. Every time I had a complaint about the company doing something iefficent I would have to gather evidence. Similarily you could assume that Phil or whoever is in charge needs to convince other people about the change being making sense. If you can't prove it with numbers, it doesn't make much sense for these people. "look cupcake - if we have less games, the terrorists win! this is basic logic" and they will just go "but we have Halo"! There is probably not much reasoning with these people. How the hell did Xbox One get off to such a poor out-of-touch start in the first place? Whoever made the choices just didn't understand.
It's
Some of these guys that decide things from behind the scenes probably doesn't understand gaming, so they don't look at it from that perspective. They probably look at releases calenders, grossed estimates and calculated risks. "this is the divisions budget for Q2, shut up phill".
I don't know if it's like that, but I've never heard of a company the size of Microsoft doing sweeping policy changes fast. Just the word parity clause should give you an idea of how much bullshit there is tied to it. Furthermore, Microsoft seems to be a company that has been able to ride it out. They have had so many projects which didn't make a project for the first number of years, until they made changes that should have been done day 1.
They are not gonna do something that is not cost effective to fix a Lumia device or a Surface pro on day 1. They won't learn that lesson until 3-4 years down the road. Thats just how slow things move. It really boggles my mind that Microsoft is not in serious trouble, when it seems they are losing ground in so many of their business divisions. They just m
My manager used to say, - prove it. Every time I had a complaint about the company doing something iefficent I would have to gather evidence. Similarily you could assume that Phil or whoever is in charge needs to convince other people about the change being making sense. If you can't prove it with numbers, it doesn't make much sense for these people. "look cupcake - if we have less games, the terrorists win! this is basic logic" and they will just go "but we have Halo"! There is probably not much reasoning with these people. How the hell did Xbox One get off to such a poor out-of-touch start in the first place? Whoever made the choices just didn't understand.
It's
Some of these guys that decide things from behind the scenes probably doesn't understand gaming, so they don't look at it from that perspective. They probably look at releases calenders, grossed estimates and calculated risks. "this is the divisions budget for Q2, shut up phill".
I don't know if it's like that, but I've never heard of a company the size of Microsoft doing sweeping policy changes fast. Just the word parity clause should give you an idea of how much bullshit there is tied to it. Furthermore, Microsoft seems to be a company that has been able to ride it out. They have had so many projects which didn't make a project for the first number of years, until they made changes that should have been done day 1.
They are not gonna do something that is not cost effective to fix a Lumia device or a Surface pro on day 1. They won't learn that lesson until 3-4 years down the road. Thats just how slow things move. It really boggles my mind that Microsoft is not in serious trouble, when it seems they are losing ground in so many of their business divisions. They just m
BuggeryBugz
Member
Great thread and the parity clause needs to go. I only own a xbox one and would love as many games on it as possible. Having this clause benefits no one.
Also, we understand how passionate you are Amirox but just chill a bit.
Also, we understand how passionate you are Amirox but just chill a bit.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Chub fighting the good fight, eager to see if this bubbles up to affect a change.
Shit has happened faster over at the Xbox division of MS as of late though.
it's true, they've 180'd pretty much every shit decision over the past year.
This is the last major issue. Make it a bullseye Microsoft!
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Are you kidding me? He's making aware of Xbone's shit policy that's forcing indies' hand not to release on Xbone, and what I said is the result of the policy. Xbone's list of indies is lackluster compared to PS4, and the OP is EXACTLY stating that.
The only solution to the OP's problem is what he's doing right now. Pressuring the hell out of Microsoft to get them to smarten up.
Try to stay on topic, bro. Microsoft needs to step up and you're doing a poor job of covering it up.
serversurfer
Member
Very thorough OP, Chubs. I expect your game will be well made. What is it, and when can I buy it? <3
Oh, that's all? Well, fuck those guys. Slackers.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
That site is a great way to point out issues and hopefully get them to react. I voted a while ago, but I notice it's only at 937 right now. If people actually care in this thread, spread it across twitter and vote, throw it in the OP, spread it around to developers and such...
If the number doesn't move much, we'll know that people are all talk. If it balloons, we can throw it in their face and hopefully look forward to some progress.
bemusedchunk
Banned
XB1 is allied with neither the Allied Forced nor with the Soviet Union?!
Off Topic:
Yepp, they deserve a beer or two
But Add Charla to that list as well From what I gather he is a pretty reasonable guy that understands the problems but doesn't have the mojo to "fix" it.Now that is just crazy man
justsomeguy
Member
When conjecture is presented as fact it's valid to challenge it - especially if the goal is to force change; you want to get the message right.
On this particular issue I would imagine the bad PR has a far bigger impact than any sales delta. That is, of course, entirely conjecture on my part
Dragon Puncher
Member
The number of released and announced console exclusives for ps4 is staggering at this point. Almost impossible to keep track of them all.
Welcome to Steam console form factor, not a bad thing for sure.
Night Angel
Member
Did you miss all the 180s at the start of the gen?
As you many of you may imagine or have seen play out in your own professional lives, in very large companies, it does take time (and sometimes a good long time) to create a shift in culture and to make adjustments in how different business units conduct their day to day work. I have no knowledge of the inner workings of MS; but I would imagine even if Phil made a decision about something today (like the parity clause), it certainly could take a significant amount of time, etc (i.e., at least several months) to get it implemented, etc. Plus, we probably do not know exactly what actually has to change internally at MS to allow them to change this policy. I don't know if it's as simple as many might think. Perhaps they would have to amend many or most of their existing agreements with some new language, etc. That said, with as many adjustments as MS has made over year 1 of the Xbox One, it does seem a little interesting that they have not been able to make this type of change to date. I do think they will eventually remove this as a standard as they have already done so for case-by-case games.
Who exactly would Phil have to consult something like a parity clause with? You guys act like it's something complex like redoing the Xbox dashboard. It's virtually one line in a contract that you could say "From now on, this part is null and void".
BobTheFork
Member
You know, that's one of the more plausible points I've seen in this discussion. They don't want to be seen as playing catch-up.
Of course I never bought my ps4 for the indie games, but damn have they been great. It's not just about filling a gap from big game to big game. I said earlier in the year that playing games like Frequency and Octodad and Rogue Legacy just made me feel great about the state of games in general. You can still play these huge big budget game that are great show pieces but you can also play these great interesting ideas that were shaped into unique experiences. I didn't LOVE Octodad but the fact that the game exists as it is was fucking great.
Major Nelson's "changing the DRM isn't like flipping a switch!" followed next week by their changing the DRM like flipping a switch disagrees with you.
Neuromancer
Member
That they're reversing the policy.
Voted, thanks.
Policy is straight up bullshit, no excuse for it to still be around. Hope it is changed sooner rather than later.
You are correct. All that it took to make the change was to say it out loud. Like a fairy tale wish.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
A lot of us don't hate MS and we would like to see them successful, and it is this reason that we are upset that they have a nasty habit of shooting themselves in the foot while trying to run. Phil did a lot to correct that fairly quickly when he took over, but this parity clause is hurting them and he should make it a priority to eliminate it.
Don't mistake hate for anger, they are not the same thing.
HORRORSHØW
Member
uncle phil will tear apart the indie parity clause at E3 to a rousing ovation. kill two birds with one stone.