• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system

R

Rymuth

Member
AbsintheGames said:
xbox.png


Edit:
https://twitter.com/AbsintheGames/status/542059956124389376
Click to expand...
Ugh..it's like talking to someone who's got their head buried in the sand.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
keit4 said:
That twitter is not Spencer's profile tho.
Click to expand...

Whoops! You're right, that's ID@Xbox. They both have similar avatars.

I'm kinda glad that wasn't Phil, man I was so confused and angry and laughing all at the same time. Bwahaha
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Steverulez said:
Thing is, what do you expect them to say? They've shown they've read it and taken the feedback but do you really expect the person running the twitter account to send their boss under a bus?

Its incredibly unrealistic to expect them to do much else publicly. What we can hope for is that they'll see the thread, read the feedback and take it to someone who can talk to the powers that be and discuss some changes.

I'd much rather get that than have them ignore it and make it seem like they haven't even bothered to read it.

Im not defending the parity clause at all, but you have to have realistic expectations of what you expect them to say on their twitter account. If the policy is reversed, I bet they won't even say it publicly. I remember when we found out they'd binned off certification fees on 360, they didn't make a blog post or say it on twitter, they just did it and a few months down the line it caught on, they got asked and released a short statement.
Click to expand...



"But not 100% accurate" is a very defensive position to take. It looks awful.

Add the unintended comedy of linking to a game called "We Are Doomed" that they didn't even feature in ANY Xbox Wire news or any sort of official announcements, having to resort to a third party achievements website, and the circle is complete.


I would expect them to hopefully take the feedback seriously. Feedback that has been given to them many, MANY times since this issue came to light more than a year ago.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Toki767 said:
To be fair, the games do sometimes come to Wii U also so it still technically is PS4 first.
Click to expand...

Oh I know. The guy was sayin' though that the label means it "most likely" isn't coming to XB1, and I was saying the label doesn't have to mean that at all. All Microsoft has to do is eliminate the ID@Xbox parity clause and many of these games would start to come to XBO at a later date
 
E

EatMyFace

Banned
Solidsoul said:
Call me crazy but in my day to day life I don't see people really giving a damn about most of these games mentioned that are only on PS4. Here in the states outside of a few huge titles like Uncharted people don't seem to care. I don't think this is that detrimental.
Click to expand...
They don't seem to care? So I guess they just all bought PS4s because.........??
GAMES. PS4 has more of them. More variety. More indies. More F2P. More exclusives.

In my day to day life I don't see anyone caring about anything but Call Of Duty. But that just means its a popular franchise with casuals. I don't go around expecting to hear people talk about how Killing Floor 2, Until Dawn, No Man's Sky....etc. Why? Because these games haven't gotten on the mainstream gamers radar. I didn't hear people talk about Minecraft a few years ago either but now it's all over the place.(That's an indie BTW)
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Rymuth said:
Ugh..it's like talking to someone who's got their head buried in the sand.
Click to expand...

Does Chris Charla run that account? He's always just deflected any criticisms on ID@Xbox with "we are listening! Thank YOU for the feedback!", been like that for months. No change, and the parity clause has been cause for contention from day one.
 
T

Toki767

Member
Sir TapTap said:
Does Chris Charla run that account? He's always just deflected any criticisms on ID@Xbox with "we are listening! Thank YOU for the feedback!", been like that for months. No change, and the parity clause has been cause for contention from day one.
Click to expand...

Well anytime Phil Spencer gets a tweet about an issue all he ever says is "I'm on it" or something to that effect.
 
S

Steverulez

Member
Sir TapTap said:
Does Chris Charla run that account? He's always just deflected any criticisms on ID@Xbox with "we are listening! Thank YOU for the feedback!", been like that for months. No change, and the parity clause has been cause for contention from day one.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure he has access to it but I don't think he runs the account, its likely to be multiple people.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Sir TapTap said:
Does Chris Charla run that account? He's always just deflected any criticisms on ID@Xbox with "we are listening! Thank YOU for the feedback!", been like that for months. No change, and the parity clause has been cause for contention from day one.
Click to expand...



Not months, over a year, if I recall correctly.

One could argue that the push back started even before ID@XBOX was announced -- we later found out about the parity clause, and I believe that was still before the launch of the Xbox One.

Does anyone have the exact timeline?

Either way, it seems clear to me -- it has been long enough to be "listening" and to take in the feedback. They have the feedback. They are hoping that they can gain enough marketshare to make the policy work starting next year, I imagine.
 
E

Etnos

Banned
Two Words said:
Microsoft doesn't care about actually building a large library of games. Microsoft cares about making a big splash with big news to sell their system. Getting indie games on your system late doesn't give them that big splash. They'd rather ignore those type of things and just buy up some big indie games and have a big splash about them being exclusive.
Click to expand...

Its not a zero sum game: They can and should keep doing that with great AAA exclusives like Sunset OverDrive. But also stop being bonkers with that stupid clause and get more indie games.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
LestradeTGQ said:
Thanks for the thread, Chubigans. I'm an indie dev as well as a fellow GM Studio user. I made Home for Steam/iOS/PS4/Vita (it was the very first GM Studio game on a PlayStation console, I was told). I announced with Sony my next game (Alone With You) as a PS4/Vita exclusive at PAX this year.

All that is to say I agree with what Chubigans is saying, from a developer point of view. Interesting note: to date, not a single Microsoft rep has ever reached out to me at events or online, and I've never seen one here in town (Toronto). To contrast that, reps from PlayStation have been coming to Toronto for years to sniff out talent and talk to small studios (I spoke to them two years ago about Home).

Now, I know some local devs who are launching first on Xbox One, and speak well of MS. I wouldn't doubt it; they were in that spot where they hadn't launched yet, hadn't announced anything, and could make those decisions.

But for someone mid-project, something like the parity clause (if enforced) is brutal. Home is now on multiple platforms (Steam - Windows and Mac, iOS and PS4 and Vita) and if I had to deal with even two of those very different platforms at launch I would have lost my mind. At least with PS4/Vita at launch, you're dealing with some similar situations; PS4 and XB1 would be really tough for me (I'm a one-man shop).

I love my Xbox One (seriously, it's great; I use it every day), and would certainly love to make games for it. But sometimes as a developer new to a platform, the best way to join the party is to port something you already know and learn your way around before you commit to something new. A parity clause makes that impossible for tiny studios like mine.

Sony won with the PlayStation (among other things) by being incredibly developer-friendly compared to Nintendo, and obviously it was the smart move. Every platform generation has had a similar story; make a good home for devs and everyone does business. I can't say nicer things about the folks I know now at Sony; hopefully MS will, as many have said here, cotton on to their friendlier tactic.
Click to expand...

Congrats on the Home release! Always great to see a fellow GM Studio dev. :D
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
According to this site there is already a gap of about 67 games - released games.

http://www.listwar.com/released-games/

201 PS4 games - 134 Xbox One games.

A great majority of them are indies. I don't necessarily think the parity clause is all to blame. I think Sony's approach to indies and their third party relations team is simply beating MS ID@Xbox Team soundly.
 
Solidsoul

Solidsoul

Banned
Amir0x said:
The thing is everyone has a different "played in" experience. Some people had a 360; others a PS3; others just a Wii; others a PC; others all of the above.

When we start making arbitrary determinants for what should count or not, everyone loses. Because it's not just about what I played or what you played. It's about what the entire market can potentially have access to.

The PS4, XBO and Wii U is an entirely new generation where players new and old can try out all fashion of games, including some that came out on previous platforms they didn't have a shot at playing.



So your entire argument boils down to... "I don't care about indies and/or I don't see many people giving a damn about most of these indies, therefore who cares if indie devs get fucked."

I really wonder how much training it takes to be this selfish.
Click to expand...

Why do people try to take things other people say and spin them as negatively as possible?

I'm referring to the entire overarching topic of Neogaf this week, from threads like these all the way to "Microsoft better step it up" I think Microsoft is doing pretty awesome and I don't think the Playstation announcements were near as exciting is everyone is making them out to be.

A lot of that mainstream audience and even hardcore audience isn't going to care about a great deal of these games not on Xbox. The Playstation is a great platform, The Xbox is a great platform, does there always have to be a superiority complex involved?

It's just my opinion but I wish there were less threads about how "Sony is doing this and Microsoft is not" and more actual interesting stuff. It's been over a year and I feel like we're still leading up to launch of those systems.

Edit: Let me apologize and clarify, the clause isn't a good thing, I'm just so tired of seeing the MS hate and catering to Sony as if they do no wrong that all of the Internet likes to poke fun at Neogaf for. My emotions are tied into that more than the parity clause, which is the topic at hand, so I apologize for that.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
Nokterian said:
Wait he is linking to one game? What?
Click to expand...

I don't think a twitter response is a "full response" to this thread. I am pretty sure there are some games in that list coming to Xbox. Still though, the discrepancies do not change the general theme - the gap is not close and they're getting soundly beat.
 
F

Faustek

Member
system11 said:
Did not know this was a thing. Any idea which shops might stock it? I have friends in Japan.
Click to expand...

No clue, been to Mandarake in Fukuoka, Tsutaya, Book off, Geo and the small store in Ijiri(actually all of them) But haven't seen it. Perhaps they weren't printed when I was there last time :(
And have a few friends looking for it as well. All strategically placed in Fukuoka, Osaka and Tokyo...more like luck ;)

But if I find it I'll try to remember this exchange :)

shampoowarrior said:
But the clause is clearly
hurting Xbox gamers more than anything
. If the choice is get late ports or don't get the game, MS should choose the former. It's a matter of pride, and I get that, but they need to suck it up.

.
Click to expand...

Not pointing you out dear Warrior of Shampoo just using the bolded as a reminder on how many people think that way.

Man how I hate that thinking, sure sure consumers and whatnot but man how I hate it when it happens to indies. Perhaps it's the Emperor Penguin within me that sees red when people think it's ok to trample over indies for themselves.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Marcel said:
I think if you want to make a claim that games are devalued on PS4, you should probably back that up with data about PS+ payout vs. sales.

Expectations are not universal, nor are they created equally. I bought Transistor on Day 1, for the record, to support a developer I enjoyed. Reasonable people don't expect certain things to be free or discounted, as much as we would like it to be occasionally.
Click to expand...

Do you think most people are reasonable?

I can't product data that is more or less impossible for me to obtain, but I don't think the PlayStation Plus Freeplay program being viewed as a place where indie games debut does any favors for games that choose to charge money on the platform.
 
S

Shining Sunshine

Banned
Solidsoul said:
Why do people try to take things other people say and spin them as negatively as possible?

I'm referring to the entire overarching topic of Neogaf this week, from threads like these all the way to "Microsoft better step it up" I think Microsoft is doing pretty awesome and I don't think the Playstation announcements were near as exciting is everyone is making them out to be.

A lot of that mainstream audience and even hardcore audience isn't going to care about a great deal of these games not on Xbox. The Playstation is a great platform, The Xbox is a great platform, does there always have to be a superiority complex involved?

It's just my opinion but I wish there were less threads about how "Sony is doing this and Microsoft is not" and more actual interesting stuff. It's been over a year and I feel like we're still leading up to launch of those systems.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you're getting that Microsoft is doing well in comparison to Sony. They're not. It's represented in the disparity in console sales, and even their big game, Sunset Overdrive, had completely bombed.

Then you have Halo MCC which is a whole other nutshell of how badly they're handling things.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
GnawtyDog said:
I don't think a twitter response is a "full response" to this thread. I am pretty sure there are some games in that list coming to Xbox. Still though, the discrepancies do not change the general theme - the gap is not close and they're getting soundly beat.
Click to expand...

I can understand that but reading the story's here how helpful sony is and how much there helping them is to me amazing. Also for Steam from what i saw there also great towards indie dev's.

Such a shame microsoft have horrible policy and it shows.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Solidsoul said:
Why do people try to take things other people say and spin them as negatively as possible?

I'm referring to the entire overarching topic of Neogaf this week, from threads like these all the way to "Microsoft better step it up" I think Microsoft is doing pretty awesome and I don't think the Playstation announcements were near as exciting is everyone is making them out to be.

A lot of that mainstream audience and even hardcore audience isn't going to care about a great deal of these games not on Xbox. The Playstation is a great platform, The Xbox is a great platform, does there always have to be a superiority complex involved?

It's just my opinion but I wish there were less threads about how "Sony is doing this and Microsoft is not" and more actual interesting stuff. It's been over a year and I feel like we're still leading up to launch of those systems.
Click to expand...

Guess you are new to gaming forums. There will always be this sort of discussion, and to call this specific thread not "interesting stuff" is downright sad. These devs deserve to be able to put their games on as many systems as they can for greater reachability and discussing it is very interesting.
 
L

LestradeTGQ

Neo Member
Amir0x said:
This is a wonderful post. I also like how perfectly it illustrates this has nothing to do with platform bias or some anti-MS sentiment. It's simply bad policy and it's hurting vulnerable developers as well as Xbox One-only gamers. It's bad bad bad.

Thanks for your insight, I'm adding it to my list :D
Click to expand...

Awesome!

I think Sony has just been much more proactive. If someone from MS chatted with me I might be over the moon, who knows? When I am able to handle it, time-wise, I would certainly look into ID@Xbox, but right now I can't over-extend myself. Hopefully this policy will change in the future and I can choose my own development schedules.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
SomewhatGroovy said:
Timing is everything. You release a game that gamers know has been out on competing consoles for months and there's a chance they won't care by the time it reaches them.

You have to get the game in their hands as soon as the noise generates.
Click to expand...

Indeed. PvZ is a nice example of that. I don't know the numbers but I am pretty sure the sales on PS4 are nothing to go home and talk about - despite having almost twice the userbase worldwide.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
xxracerxx said:
Guess you are new to gaming forums. There will always be this sort of discussion, and to call this specific thread not "interesting stuff" is downright sad. These devs deserve to be able to put their games on as many systems as they can for greater reachability and discussing it is very interesting.
Click to expand...



Not to mention that in the same reply where he asks for more "interesting stuff", he claims that people are exaggerating the reaction to the, you know, games announced this week. The interesting stuff.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Solidsoul said:
Why do people try to take things other people say and spin them as negatively as possible?

I'm referring to the entire overarching topic of Neogaf this week, from threads like these all the way to "Microsoft better step it up" I think Microsoft is doing pretty awesome and I don't think the Playstation announcements were near as exciting is everyone is making them out to be.

A lot of that mainstream audience and even hardcore audience isn't going to care about a great deal of these games not on Xbox. The Playstation is a great platform, The Xbox is a great platform, does there always have to be a superiority complex involved?

It's just my opinion but I wish there were less threads about how "Sony is doing this and Microsoft is not" and more actual interesting stuff. It's been over a year and I feel like we're still leading up to launch of those systems.
Click to expand...

Spin what? This post confirms it's just selfish shit you're arguing.

You don't like to hear people say mean things about Microsoft. I get it. It doesn't change the fact that the ID@Xbox parity clause is hugely damaging not just to Microsoft, not just to the most vulnerable devs in the industry, but also to XBO-only gamers. It's not a fucking system wars thing, it's not about platform preferences. It's simple in reality.

If I hated indies and XBO was my numero uno platform and I hated PlayStation and Nintendo, I would still be championing an end to this hateful clause of theirs. Because I'm not a selfish jerk who only thinks about myself anymore (I once was, but I'm 30 years old now. That time has passed). I can understand an issue is causing real harm to people who genuinely need as little hurdles as possible to be financially successful, and that it needs to be fixed.

If YOU don't like to hear about it, then YOU should exit the topic. You don't need to come in here and remind everyone how little you get it.

It doesn't matter how important you personally think indies are at market, because that's not what this topic is about. Not only do you have no way to qualify that position, but it wouldn't matter if you could.

This topic is about a seriously awful policy that is factually hurting XBO-only gamers, Microsoft and, most importantly, indie developers. Do you have any thought on that or is it just "I don't care about indies and also don't think anyone else does anyone so fuck off indies stop being mean to Microsoft lol SonyGAF?"

To your edit:

Solidsoul said:
Edit: Let me apologize and clarify, the clause isn't a good thing, I'm just so tired of seeing the MS hate and catering to Sony as if they do no wrong that all of the Internet likes to poke fun at Neogaf for. My emotions are tied into that more than the parity clause, which is the topic at hand, so I apologize for that.
Click to expand...

Do you really think it's a good idea then to come into a thread which has nothing to do with platform preferences or system wars and make a point? It's counterproductive. This is a policy hurting XBOX ONE gamers. Changing it would HELP Xbox One gamers.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
LestradeTGQ said:
Awesome!

I think Sony has just been much more proactive. If someone from MS chatted with me I might be over the moon, who knows? When I am able to handle it, time-wise, I would certainly look into ID@Xbox, but right now I can't over-extend myself. Hopefully this policy will change in the future and I can choose my own development schedules.
Click to expand...

I want to ask Valve also has been helpful towards indie devs same thing worked for you? I really like Steam and with the recent overhaul of the store i hear great news from indie's that there sales have gone up and that i am glad with.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Solidsoul said:
Edit: Let me apologize and clarify, the clause isn't a good thing, I'm just so tired of seeing the MS hate and catering to Sony as if they do no wrong that all of the Internet likes to poke fun at Neogaf for. My emotions are tied into that more than the parity clause, which is the topic at hand, so I apologize for that.
Click to expand...

Oh for fuck's sake.
 
Solidsoul

Solidsoul

Banned
Amir0x said:
Spin what? This post confirms it's just selfish shit you're arguing.

You don't like to hear people say mean things about Microsoft. I get it. It doesn't change the fact that the ID@Xbox parity clause is hugely damaging not just to Microsoft, not just to the most vulnerable devs in the industry, but also to XBO-only gamers. It's not a fucking system wars thing, it's not about platform preferences. It's simple reality.

If I hated indies and XBO was my numero uno platform and I hated PlayStation and Nintendo, I would still be championing an end to this hateful clause of theirs. Because I'm not a selfish jerk who only thinks about myself anymore (I once was, but I'm 30 years old now. That time has passed). I can understand an issue is causing real harm to people who genuinely need as little hurdles as possible to be financially successful, and that it needs to be fixed.

If YOU don't like to hear about it, then YOU should exit the topic. You don't need to come in here and remind everyone how little you get it.

It doesn't matter how important you personally think indies are at market, because that's not what this topic is about. Not only do you have no way to qualify that position, but it wouldn't matter if you could.

This topic is about a seriously awful policy that is factually hurting XBO-only gamers, Microsoft and, most importantly, indie developers. Do you have any thought on that or is it just "I don't care about indies and also don't think anyone else does anyone so fuck off indies?"

To your edit:



Do you really think it's a good idea then to come into a thread which has nothing to do with platform preferences or system wars and make a point? It's counterproductive. This is a policy hurting XBOX ONE gamers. Changing it would HELP Xbox One gamers.
Click to expand...

I love Indie games and indie gaming, I own a TON of indie games, many of which I have loved.

I completely "get" the topic at hand, it's not the first time it's been talked about. I'm not trying to upset anyone, and I don't think the tone of your comment was deserved.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
legacyzero said:
I seriously cant think of a benefit for ANYBODY as to why this clause is still is place. Fuckin blows my mind.
Click to expand...

The benefit of feeling like a first class citizen brosef

Solidsoul said:
I completely "get" the topic at hand, it's not the first time it's been talked about. I'm not trying to upset anyone, and I don't think the tone of your comment was deserved.
Click to expand...

I mean you're derailing this topic for nonsense, trying to downplay the severity of the issue, and the reason is: "I'm tired of seeing so many mean threads about Microsoft, waah SonyGAF!"

Exactly how should my tone be in response to this? Illuminate me. I'm at a loss, genuinely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mapping out Sony first party's Next Four years on PS5
2
92
5K
Woopah replied
Report: Quake II Remaster Announcement is imminent
Rumor 2 3 4
156
8K
DragonNCM replied
WitchSpring R coming to PS5 and Xbox One, ‘Hard Mode’ and ‘New Game Plus’ update for PC launches in February
News
4
1K
Guilty_AI replied
Star Wars Jedi: Survivor Coming To PS4 And Xbox One
News Platform 2 3 4
192
10K
DeepEnigma replied
The Legend of Heroes: Akatsuki No Kiseki Ending PC Support June 2024 After 8 Years
News
0
351
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
Top Bottom