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[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system

S

system11

Member
Maybe they could look at other potential ways to attract indies, like, for example, paying them the standard 3 months late instead of dragging it to 5. You know, little things.

Honestly I'm happy with the situation the way it is for Microsoft, they dug their hole and perhaps they'll learn a lesson from it.
 
J

Jacksinthe

Banned
xbox.png


Edit:
https://twitter.com/AbsintheGames/status/542059956124389376
 
Y

ypo

Member
Imagine what kind of damage this company can inflict if it did become the dominate player? It'll make the DRM policy look like amateur hour.
 
N

NoSkillz187

Member
p3tran said:
strange
looking at the quotation, one would think that "up to october", like amirox says,
ps4 would have the more plush library than the xbone.

I know it didnt work out that way for me. definitely!
and I was wondering if there are any multiconsole holders since last year, that would feel like that table says we should..

and let me put that table to words:

since last november and up to this october,
playstation 4 had ...50% more games that were perfect (90+), and on top of that,
playstation 4 had ...700% more games that were really good (80+) than the xbone.


well, somehow, this to me, I dunno how to say it, it just reads like the 50% gpu power statement... only even more bloated.
:)
so lets hear some other opinions on this ...first year of next gen.
was it really that bad for xbone games? compared to ps4?
what do the best customers say? this is you, fellow day1 customers.. :D
Click to expand...

I've literally read this 3 times and still don't understand what you were trying to say.
 
P

pastrami

Member
Broly said:
If some of those games are on 360 I do feel it's policy failure if they're not on XBO. However, I have to say I find it pretty cheap to list all the games not exclusive to PS4. I'm not buying a new console to play old games. By that logic, the Xbox 360 has a bigger library of games because of the games that are backwards compatible and the OG Xbox games in the marketplace.
Click to expand...

There are titles from both sides of the list that come from the previous generation. Hence my bringing up Sixty Second Shooter and Zombie Driver.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Solidsoul said:
Call me crazy but in my day to day life I don't see people really giving a damn about most of these games mentioned that are only on PS4. Here in the states outside of a few huge titles like Uncharted people don't seem to care. I don't think this is that detrimental.
Click to expand...

Indies are the new B tier game. The ones that offer a unique gameplay experience, the ones that experiment, the ones that take risks and don't just release the same old tired game in the same old tired genre.

They are the games that fill the gap when there aren't any big AAA releases on the horizon or when people are tired of playing through the same old big ticket cinematic adventure. They make gaming enjoyable, the small treasures that allow developers to fully express themselves and tell stories they want to tell.
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
Solidsoul said:
Call me crazy but in my day to day life I don't see people really giving a damn about most of these games mentioned that are only on PS4. Here in the states outside of a few huge titles like Uncharted people don't seem to care. I don't think this is that detrimental.
Click to expand...

Even if your circle doesn't find it important, what reason does that give for the people who care to miss out on games because of this clause making lives harder for independent developers?
 
F

flatearthpandas

Member
I think the parity clause is understandable in its intent.

Demanding ridiculous parity clauses worked great for Sony in the past, destroying the viability of things like the "Tales of" series on non-Sony platforms. Why wouldn't MS want to emulate that? Why wouldn't an Xbox only owner want MS to demand that they don't have to wait for their games to be ported late from Sony platforms or Nintendo platforms?

On paper, it sounds great. If Xbone was the dominant platform this gen, it would probably work great in reality too.

But the clause is clearly hurting Xbox gamers more than anything. If the choice is get late ports or don't get the game, MS should choose the former. It's a matter of pride, and I get that, but they need to suck it up.

Getting rid of the clause is almost definitely the best thing to do if MS wants its userbase to at least feel like second-class citizens instead of stowaways.
 
F

Fallout-with-swords

Banned
Miles Quaritch said:
I expect the reasoning is that it makes their platform look like an afterthought? A platform that isn't important enough to get the game the same day as other platforms?

It also highlights that PS4/PSN is the place to be if you want to play those games immediately rather than waiting a few months.
Click to expand...

The whole "first class" gamer thing Spencer was talking about plays into them not wanting to look like an after thought.
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
Miles Quaritch said:
Indies are the new B tier game. The ones that offer a unique gameplay experience, the ones that experiment, the ones that take risks and don't just release the same old tired game in the same old tired genre.

They are the games that fill the gap when there aren't any big AAA releases on the horizon or when people are tired of playing through the same old big ticket cinematic adventure. They make gaming enjoyable, the small treasures that allow developers to fully express themselves and tell stories they want to tell.
Click to expand...

Miles can you get this printed and put on a plaque? I would buy it.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
I want to note that even IF the game they linked to was an exception, that simply highlights the problem that people have to get exceptions at all.

I feel like Chris Charla is wasted in this indie group. Such an embarrassment.

Amused said:
"Cool stort bro! Here is one game proving this is not accurate".
Click to expand...

I want to point out the link doesn't even adequately do that!
 
V

vypek

Member
Amir0x said:
They link to this, despite the fact that by all indications both XBO version and PS4/Vita versions both have the same release date of "Early 2015."

Can they fail any fucking harder?
Click to expand...

I think they could fail harder. I'm not trying to say what they are doing is right but there aren't many better responses to give. I think it would either appear to be a canned response or something nonsenical that they would say. I guess they could have ignored it though. IDK. Doesn't seem like there is a whole lot they could say


Hopefully the parity clause is something that will fade away eventually
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
tempest3 said:
I think they could fail harder. I'm not trying to say what they are doing is right but there aren't many better responses to give. I think it would either appear to be a canned response or something nonsenical that they would say. I guess they could have ignored it though. IDK. Doesn't seem like there is a whole lot they could say
Click to expand...

The only way they could have failed harder is if the tweet's response was "fuck you."
 
L

LestradeTGQ

Neo Member
Thanks for the thread, Chubigans. I'm an indie dev as well as a fellow GM Studio user. I made Home for Steam/iOS/PS4/Vita (it was the very first GM Studio game on a PlayStation console, I was told). I announced with Sony my next game (Alone With You) as a PS4/Vita exclusive at PAX this year.

All that is to say I agree with what Chubigans is saying, from a developer point of view. Interesting note: to date, not a single Microsoft rep has ever reached out to me at events or online, and I've never seen one here in town (Toronto). To contrast that, reps from PlayStation have been coming to Toronto for years to sniff out talent and talk to small studios (I spoke to them two years ago about Home).

Now, I know some local devs who are launching first on Xbox One, and speak well of MS. I wouldn't doubt it; they were in that spot where they hadn't launched yet, hadn't announced anything, and could make those decisions.

But for someone mid-project, something like the parity clause (if enforced) is brutal. Home is now on multiple platforms (Steam - Windows and Mac, iOS and PS4 and Vita) and if I had to deal with even two of those very different platforms at launch I would have lost my mind. At least with PS4/Vita at launch, you're dealing with some similar situations; PS4 and XB1 would be really tough for me (I'm a one-man shop).

I love my Xbox One (seriously, it's great; I use it every day), and would certainly love to make games for it. But sometimes as a developer new to a platform, the best way to join the party is to port something you already know and learn your way around before you commit to something new. A parity clause makes that impossible for tiny studios like mine.

Sony won with the PlayStation (among other things) by being incredibly developer-friendly compared to Nintendo, and obviously it was the smart move. Every platform generation has had a similar story; make a good home for devs and everyone does business. I can't say nicer things about the folks I know now at Sony; hopefully MS will, as many have said here, cotton on to their friendlier tactic.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Amir0x said:
They link to this, despite the fact that by all indications both XBO version and PS4/Vita versions both have the same release date of "Early 2015."

Can they fail any fucking harder?
Click to expand...

I'm thankful for it if only so that I could write the most surreal edit notes ever.

(EDIT: Numbers adjusted a bit. Grave was announced for XB1 at E3 (thanks Miles), and Commander Cherry is also coming to PS4 (thanks Banjo), and We Are Doomed is also coming to XB1 (thanks Phil Spencer), let me know if I need to correct any more!)
Click to expand...

edit: whoops that's not Phil Spencer, that's ID@Xbox, my mistake.
 
R

Raist

Banned
Miles Quaritch said:
I expect the reasoning is that it makes their platform look like an afterthought? A platform that isn't important enough to get the game the same day as other platforms?

It also highlights that PS4/PSN is the place to be if you want to play those games immediately rather than waiting a few months.
Click to expand...

What does it make it look like that so many indie devs don't cave in and don't bother with an XB1 version though? Because that's precisely what's happening.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
I seriously can't believe that the game just so happens to be called "We are doomed". Holy shit.


I should clarify -- We are Doomed looks awesome and I'm actually excited for it! It was also highlighted in both the EU and US PS Blog back in November!


LestradeTGQ said:
Thanks for the thread, Chubigans. I'm an indie dev as well as a fellow GM Studio user. I made Home for Steam/iOS/PS4/Vita (it was the very first GM Studio game on a PlayStation console, I was told). I announced with Sony my next game (Alone With You) as a PS4/Vita exclusive at PAX this year.

All that is to say I agree with what Chubigans is saying, from a developer point of view. Interesting note: to date, not a single Microsoft rep has ever reached out to me at events or online, and I've never seen one here in town (Toronto). To contrast that, reps from PlayStation have been coming to Toronto for years to sniff out talent and talk to small studios (I spoke to them two years ago about Home).

Now, I know some local devs who are launching first on Xbox One, and speak well of MS. I wouldn't doubt it; they were in that spot where they hadn't launched yet, hadn't announced anything, and could make those decisions.

But for someone mid-project, something like the parity clause (if enforced) is brutal. Home is now on multiple platforms (Steam - Windows and Mac, iOS and PS4 and Vita) and if I had to deal with even two of those very different platforms at launch I would have lost my mind. At least with PS4/Vita at launch, you're dealing with some similar situations; PS4 and XB1 would be really tough for me (I'm a one-man shop).

I love my Xbox One (seriously, it's great; I use it every day), and would certainly love to make games for it. But sometimes as a developer new to a platform, the best way to join the party is to port something you already know and learn your way around before you commit to something new. A parity clause makes that impossible for tiny studios like mine.

Sony won with the PlayStation (among other things) by being incredibly developer-friendly compared to Nintendo, and obviously it was the smart move. Every platform generation has had a similar story; make a good home for devs and everyone does business. I can't say nicer things about the folks I know now at Sony; hopefully MS will, as many have said here, cotton on to their friendlier tactic.
Click to expand...




Home! <3
 
Q

quesalupa

Member
Woah, so those trailers that say "first on PS4" mean that the games will most likely never be on Xbox 1? Why does Microsoft want this?
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
dangerdays15 said:
Woah, so those trailers that say "first on PS4" mean that the games will most likely never be on Xbox 1? Why does Microsoft want this?
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to mean that! It's up to Microsoft! Sony is not forcing devs to make their game only for PS4, unless Sony funds it directly.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
LestradeTGQ said:
Thanks for the thread, Chubigans. I'm an indie dev as well as a fellow GM Studio user. I made Home for Steam/iOS/PS4/Vita (it was the very first GM Studio game on a PlayStation console, I was told). I announced with Sony my next game (Alone With You) as a PS4/Vita exclusive at PAX this year.

All that is to say I agree with what Chubigans is saying, from a developer point of view. Interesting note: to date, not a single Microsoft rep has ever reached out to me at events or online, and I've never seen one here in town (Toronto). To contrast that, reps from PlayStation have been coming to Toronto for years to sniff out talent and talk to small studios (I spoke to them two years ago about Home).

Now, I know some local devs who are launching first on Xbox One, and speak well of MS. I wouldn't doubt it; they were in that spot where they hadn't launched yet, hadn't announced anything, and could make those decisions.

But for someone mid-project, something like the parity clause (if enforced) is brutal. Home is now on multiple platforms (Steam - Windows and Mac, iOS and PS4 and Vita) and if I had to deal with even two of those very different platforms at launch I would have lost my mind. At least with PS4/Vita at launch, you're dealing with some similar situations; PS4 and XB1 would be really tough for me (I'm a one-man shop).

I love my Xbox One (seriously, it's great; I use it every day), and would certainly love to make games for it. But sometimes as a developer new to a platform, the best way to join the party is to port something you already know and learn your way around before you commit to something new. A parity clause makes that impossible for tiny studios like mine.

Sony won with the PlayStation (among other things) by being incredibly developer-friendly compared to Nintendo, and obviously it was the smart move. Every platform generation has had a similar story; make a good home for devs and everyone does business. I can't say nicer things about the folks I know now at Sony; hopefully MS will, as many have said here, cotton on to their friendlier tactic.
Click to expand...

This is a wonderful post. I also like how perfectly it illustrates this has nothing to do with platform bias or some anti-MS sentiment. It's simply bad policy and it's hurting vulnerable developers as well as Xbox One-only gamers. It's bad bad bad.

Thanks for your insight, I'm adding it to my list :D
 
S

Steverulez

Member
Conduit said:
As i said, they don't give a shit.
Click to expand...

Thing is, what do you expect them to say? They've shown they've read it and taken the feedback but do you really expect the person running the twitter account to send their boss under a bus?

Its incredibly unrealistic to expect them to do much else publicly. What we can hope for is that they'll see the thread, read the feedback and take it to someone who can talk to the powers that be and discuss some changes.

I'd much rather get that than have them ignore it and make it seem like they haven't even bothered to read it.

Im not defending the parity clause at all, but you have to have realistic expectations of what you expect them to say on their twitter account. If the policy is reversed, I bet they won't even say it publicly. I remember when we found out they'd binned off certification fees on 360, they didn't make a blog post or say it on twitter, they just did it and a few months down the line it caught on, they got asked and released a short statement.
 
P

PensOwl

Banned
I never knew the indie disparity was that large. I mean, scrolling through the x1 store gave a hint, but yeah...

That parity clause has got to go.
 
J

JackTretton

Banned
Isn't the proving ground arena for indies essentially Steam? It seems to me that if an indie can gain traction on Steam, then it finds it's way to consoles (usually Sony). If I were an Indie developer, aside from making the best game my budget/time allows for, I would put all my eggs in the Steam basket with the hopes of gaining enough momentum to end up on a console.
 
T

Toki767

Member
Amir0x said:
It doesn't have to mean that! It's up to Microsoft! Sony is not forcing devs to make their game only for PS4, unless Sony funds it directly.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the games do sometimes come to Wii U also so it still technically is PS4 first.
 
T

Two Words

Member
Microsoft doesn't care about actually building a large library of games. Microsoft cares about making a big splash with big news to sell their system. Getting indie games on your system late doesn't give them that big splash. They'd rather ignore those type of things and just buy up some big indie games and have a big splash about them being exclusive.
 
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