But what does windows 10 bring? A shitty app store from windows phone and windows 8.1 metro store? The windows phone store is probably better stocked than the full windows store - why release something through that when you can publish directly on windows already?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
But what does windows 10 bring? A shitty app store from windows phone and windows 8.1 metro store? The windows phone store is probably better stocked than the full windows store - why release something through that when you can publish directly on windows already?
OneLifeCycle
Neo Member
Wow! Thanks for the post OP!
M$ is their own worst enemy, it seems. They policies are so controlling that they've had to back out of a lot of them concerning the XB1. I wonder if this one will stick?
M$ is their own worst enemy, it seems. They policies are so controlling that they've had to back out of a lot of them concerning the XB1. I wonder if this one will stick?
QuantumZebra
Member
uhhhhhhhhhh
there was a huge fiasco about indie devs not getting paid by Microsoft that just hit like last week... lol
bananafactory
Banned
That really says it all.
I don't think they care anywhere near as much about waiting for the same game as they do just waiting for games, period. I think most people are just more interested in seeing their platform of choice get a steady stream of games they're interested in playing. Every platform has its fair share of secondhand content.
Yeah it does....thank you MS for not giving us so many 80+ subpar indie crap. I can now enjoy my 2 quality games. First class! Bling Bling!
QuantumZebra
Member
Well i'm glad someone informed me that my GOTY, Transistor, (after having played Dragon Age, Smash, Bayo2, etc...) is in fact, a subpar game.
holy shit the ignorance
As far as I remember the parity clause isn't set in stone. At least it wasn't that long ago anyway. Microsoft just 'reserve the right' not to give a licence to games previously released on other platforms. That's why I was so pissed off with the Rayman Legends treatment for Wii U owners.
The power, at the end of the day, is with the publishers/developers. If a high profile game such as Rayman Legends was released when it was originally planned to be in February it's in Microsoft's interest to give the delayed SKU a licence. Too much bad publicity not to. What are Microsoft going to do..? Allow it to be released on every other platform except the 360..? Not going to happen.
For high profile titles (even high profile indie titles) publishers and developers have the power, they just don't have the balls to wield it.
The power, at the end of the day, is with the publishers/developers. If a high profile game such as Rayman Legends was released when it was originally planned to be in February it's in Microsoft's interest to give the delayed SKU a licence. Too much bad publicity not to. What are Microsoft going to do..? Allow it to be released on every other platform except the 360..? Not going to happen.
For high profile titles (even high profile indie titles) publishers and developers have the power, they just don't have the balls to wield it.
Well, i've already played over 40 games on PS4 till date. And over 200 are available for PS4
Jesus, HighResTomato. This is an insulting bit of revisionist history if I ever saw one.
When PS4 and XBO were coming up, it was Sony who courted indies. They worked hard to get them on the platform. Assault Android Cactus dev said at this same time Microsoft essentially told them they didn't care about their small game being on the platform; and then on top of that the ID@Xbox parity clause prevented them.
Microsoft was extremely late to the game. So, to prevent Sony from having such a colossal advantage, they attempted to put in place this hateful clause. Only it didn't punish Sony, it punished XBO gamers and indie developers instead.
Exactly what did you expect indie developers to do? Wait until Microsoft got their act together and stopped acting like asshats to indie devs? That sounds REALLY smart for developers who literally require a game release to keep a roof over their heads.
I don't care how seemingly selfish you are that clear distaste for indies is allowing itself to pollute your thought process on this issue. All you have to do is stop and think for even the slightest moment to realize how wrong it is.
Who benefits?
+ Not Microsoft, they lose revenue.
+ Not indies, they have to make hard choices about which platform to go to (or stretch themselves too thin to make multiple versions of a game at once) and have one less potential future revenue stream
+ Not XBO gamers, who have a shitload less awesome games to choose from
+ And occasionally not PS4 owners, who get artificially punished on the rare occasion an indie dev does decide to delay a game simply to adhere to Phil Spencer's indisputably offensive policy.
But you hate 95% of indies! That must mean it's OK they get fucked over!
Again, no one is disputing they have made some exceptions. In fact, that's the running joke - that King/Lord Phil Spencer is going to graciously allow a developer to get through the clause if they give a really really good reason and/or have an important enough game.
But the falsehood, the one you keep bizarrely arguing, is this:
Miles Quaritch said:
Because they don't, and Phil Spencer is not. The numbers support he is not. The number of devs who are making games for PS4 and not XBO due to it support he is not. The number of games that are currently coming to PS4 and not XBO (and it's far more than 47, it's well over a hundred) support he is not. The vast number of developers who refuse to stop making a stink over it, many due to the fact they are not getting exceptions. On GAF. In the media.
The problem is you keep this charade up as if the only issue is that small developers can't speak up for themselves. The issue is the policy itself. Because Phil Spencer is NOT making exceptions for everyone. And nobody should even have to fucking explain in the first place why they can't bring the game day and date, as if indie devs don't have enough headaches to deal with so just throw some more red tape into the mix. Absurd.
I'm glad you want to get rid of it too and think indie devs should show solidarity, but we need to be clear here. Microsoft is not just making exceptions for everyone, big or small.
Lys Skygge
Member
Anyone that defends the parity clause is a fanboy/fangirl. It's a stupid clause that hurts developers and gamers and makes Microsoft look bad.
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
But you don't understand, those games above 80 aren't actually real games.
Goodacre0081
Member
did anyone watching PSX feel like a second class citizen when Super Time Force and Shovel Knight were announced? lol, fuck no. we seen some great games that were on other platforms making their way to PlayStation. we cheered it.
I'm sure that game will get a "free pass" due the the hype and attention surrounding it. it's going to be an absolute slap in the face to other lesser known developers who will be locked out of XB1 due to it being a popularity contest.
I'm sure that game will get a "free pass" due the the hype and attention surrounding it. it's going to be an absolute slap in the face to other lesser known developers who will be locked out of XB1 due to it being a popularity contest.
disappeared
Banned
It seems to me that Microsoft either A) believes they are in the right with their predispositions to imposing bottlenecks for developers, or B) they're just utterly oblivious to industry trends.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
By the metric of your personal taste the good to bad ratio is low. What does that have to do with...well anything at hand?
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Shoulda specified indie games in the title.
From reading through the thread it looks like people are annoyed by this so I hope it changes.
Personally I'm not interested in indie games but that ratio is pretty bad.
From reading through the thread it looks like people are annoyed by this so I hope it changes.
Personally I'm not interested in indie games but that ratio is pretty bad.
yeap, xbone is x-done!
You miss the point completely by resorting to a very weak strawman.
NoSkillz187
Member
Astral Dog
Member
Yeah, poor Xbox One
The Last Wizard
Member
I used Listwars.com as my base for all current releases.
These are the independent games (not published by Microsoft or one of the big publishers) exclusive to XBox One currently (not on PS4 currently):
- Boom Ball for Kinect
- Nutjitsu
- Super Time Force
- Threes
- Limbo
- Zombie Driver: Ultimate Edition
- Sixty Second Shooter Prime
These are currently exclusive to PS4:
Basement Crawl, #KillAllZombies, That Trivia Game, Blue Estate, Speak Easy, Backgammon Blitz, Velocity 2x, Pix the Cat, In Space We Brawl, Minutes, Sportsfriends, Final Horizon, Blacklight Retribution, War Thunder, Super Motherload, Tiny Brains, Don't Starve, Stealth Inc Ultimate Edition, Mercenary Kings, King Oddball, Octodad: Dadliest Catch, Daylight, Second Chance Heroes, Titan Attacks!, Sparkle 2, Transistor, Mousecraft, Crimsonland, Oddworld New 'n' Tasty, Rogue Legacy, Escape Goat 2, Road Not Taken, Surgeon Simulator, Hotline Miami, OlliOlli, Anomaly 2, Futuridium EP Deluxe, Battle Islands, Nidhogg, Race the Sun, Home, The Binding of Isaac, Tennis in the Face, Tiny Troopers: Joint Ops, Rollers of the Realm, Secret Ponchos, Trine 2, Awesomenauts Assemble, Towerfall Ascension, Steamworld Dig, Fez, Pure Chess, Cel Damage HD, Puddle, The Swapper, Rygar, Nano Assault Neo-X, Dust: An Elysian Tail, Spelunky, Lone Survivor, Retro City Rampage DX, Aqua Kitty - Milk Mine Defender DX, Motorcycle Club, Teslagrad
I dare anyone to say that this policy doesn't hurt Microsoft. It's ridiculous.
I formatted the lists differently because the PS4 list was long, and I didn't want to take up too much room. This also includes currently exclusive games that have been announced for the other platform (Oddworld and Super Time Force come to immediate mind). This is by no means meant to be an exhaustive and comprehensive list in comparing titles from both platforms, but even this cursory research shows a clear difference.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
The irony is that this clause seems to have been implemented to ensure more XB1 exclusives and has just resulted in PS4 dominating them on the Indie front. Not to mention Sony has also been going after certain indies aggressively.
Look at his title, it has a special surprise for you on this very indie subject
p3tran is pretty much king denier of this huge problem, nobody can match his self-delusion. In the other indie thread he went on for pages spouting complete nonsense, showcasing he didn't understand even the tiniest element of the indie parity clause problem. It was deeply offensive and comical at the same time.
It's by far worse on steam which is where my view is coming from. Every day the front page is filled with stuff that wouldn't even make to a 100 games! Cd at walmart.
But you can't stop it or you would miss out on the rogue legacys of the world.
Ms should let up thier rule but also still filter those games.
b-b-but i hate indies so i'm selfishly going to pretend it's not a problem
strange
looking at the quotation, one would think that "up to october", like amirox says,
ps4 would have the more plush library than the xbone.
I know it didnt work out that way for me. definitely!
and I was wondering if there are any multiconsole holders since last year, that would feel like that table says we should..
and let me put that table to words:
since last november and up to this october,
playstation 4 had ...50% more games that were perfect (90+), and on top of that,
playstation 4 had ...700% more games that were really good (80+) than the xbone.
well, somehow, this to me, I dunno how to say it, it just reads like the 50% gpu power statement... only even more bloated.
so lets hear some other opinions on this ...first year of next gen.
was it really that bad for xbone games? compared to ps4?
what do the best customers say? this is you, fellow day1 customers..
FF Seraphim
Member
This is a very insightful thread. I knew MS was giving the shaft to indie devs but did not understand how badly it was affecting everyone.
I only read page 1 and 2 of the thread, did anyone post how Sony deals with indies?
I only read page 1 and 2 of the thread, did anyone post how Sony deals with indies?
Guess who isn't coming back.
like the ratio for full retail releases is any better?
strange
looking at the quotation, one would think that "up to october", like amirox says,
ps4 would have the more plush library than the xbone.
I know it didnt work out that way for me. definitely!
and I was wondering if there are any multiconsole holders since last year, that would feel like that table says we should..
and let me put that table to words:
since last november and up to this october,
playstation 4 had ...50% more games that were perfect (90+), and on top of that,
playstation 4 had ...700% more games that were really good (80+) than the xbone.
well, somehow, this to me, I dunno how to say it, it just reads like the 50% gpu power statement... only even more bloated.
so lets hear some other opinions on this ...first year of next gen.
was it really that bad for xbone games? compared to ps4?
what in the unholy fuck has this to do with the reality of the indie gap and the massive problem of the ID@Xbox parity clause!?
Definitely feels like the wave of games is continuous from the PS4 side. Regardless of quality or length, the option to play such a variety is valuable. I won't play 95% of those indie/ported games but so what? They are available to those who want!
I expect MS and Phil to change the policy by early 2015. It's just silly...
I expect MS and Phil to change the policy by early 2015. It's just silly...
yeap, xbone is x-done!
Latching on to the guy that got banned for not adding anything to the discussion with a snarky remark that adds nothing to the discussion seems smart.
strange
looking at the quotation, one would think that "up to october", like amirox says,
ps4 would have the more plush library than the xbone.
I know it didnt work out that way for me. definitely!
and I was wondering if there are any multiconsole holders since last year, that would feel like that table says we should..
and let me put that table to words:
since last november and up to this october,
playstation 4 had ...50% more games that were perfect (90+), and on top of that,
playstation 4 had ...700% more games that were really good (80+) than the xbone.
well, somehow, this to me, I dunno how to say it, it just reads like the 50% gpu power statement... only even more bloated.
so lets hear some other opinions on this ...first year of next gen.
was it really that bad for xbone games? compared to ps4?
what do the best customers say? this is you, fellow day1 customers..
We are talking about the indie parity clause, not console wars.
strange
looking at the quotation, one would think that "up to october", like amirox says,
ps4 would have the more plush library than the xbone.
I know it didnt work out that way for me. definitely!
and I was wondering if there are any multiconsole holders since last year, that would feel like that table says we should..
and let me put that table to words:
since last november and up to this october,
playstation 4 had ...50% more games that were perfect (90+), and on top of that,
playstation 4 had ...700% more games that were really good (80+) than the xbone.
well, somehow, this to me, I dunno how to say it, it just reads like the 50% gpu power statement... only even more bloated.
so lets hear some other opinions on this ...first year of next gen.
was it really that bad for xbone games? compared to ps4?
what do the best customers say? this is you, fellow day1 customers..
the state of this non-sequitur. holy shit.
strange
looking at the quotation, one would think that "up to october", like amirox says,
ps4 would have the more plush library than the xbone.
I know it didnt work out that way for me. definitely!
and I was wondering if there are any multiconsole holders since last year, that would feel like that table says we should..
and let me put that table to words:
since last november and up to this october,
playstation 4 had ...50% more games that were perfect (90+), and on top of that,
playstation 4 had ...700% more games that were really good (80+) than the xbone.
well, somehow, this to me, I dunno how to say it, it just reads like the 50% gpu power statement... only even more bloated.
so lets hear some other opinions on this ...first year of next gen.
was it really that bad for xbone games? compared to ps4?
what do the best customers say? this is you, fellow day1 customers..
Yes, as a multiplatform owner, I've played way more games on my PS4 than Xbox One.
Not because the games were any better or worse, but just due to the fact that there was MORE.
While I agree that they should open up the system to Indies, I don't believe this is what is causing the sales difference between PS4 and XboxOne.
When I talk to people who bought PS4 instead of XboxOne, they list many reasons but lack of indies rarely comes up.
Any thoughts? Do indies sale platforms or just provide an added benefit?
When I talk to people who bought PS4 instead of XboxOne, they list many reasons but lack of indies rarely comes up.
Any thoughts? Do indies sale platforms or just provide an added benefit?
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
strange
looking at the quotation, one would think that "up to october", like amirox says,
ps4 would have the more plush library than the xbone.
I know it didnt work out that way for me. definitely!
and I was wondering if there are any multiconsole holders since last year, that would feel like that table says we should..
and let me put that table to words:
since last november and up to this october,
playstation 4 had ...50% more games that were perfect (90+), and on top of that,
playstation 4 had ...700% more games that were really good (80+) than the xbone.
well, somehow, this to me, I dunno how to say it, it just reads like the 50% gpu power statement... only even more bloated.
so lets hear some other opinions on this ...first year of next gen.
was it really that bad for xbone games? compared to ps4?
what do the best customers say? this is you, fellow day1 customers..
What the shit does this mean? I feel like I'm reading some sort of cryptic and coded comment, especially given the context of this thread.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
There's a lot here that could be argued, but the fact remains that the parity clause is a worthless piece of shit. If it has any consumer-oriented purpose, Microsoft people have failed to convincingly communicate it in all this time that we've known about it. It's time to either finally talk about it candidly and without pretense, or to do away with it.
Look at his title, it has a special surprise for you on this very indie subject
p3tran is pretty much king denier of this huge problem, nobody can match his self-delusion. In the other indie thread he went on for pages spouting complete nonsense, showcasing he didn't understand even the tiniest element of the indie parity clause problem. It was deeply offensive and comical at the same time.
Oh right I had no idea who I was dealing with, well everyone has its preferences but MS's backward policies can't be understated. They are in no position to enforce such policies and are making their customers loosing out on some genuine great games.
It's damning how Microsoft have completely lost the plot, they were so strong in the 360 days now they're trailing behind.
As a platform holder MS's job is to entice devs to invest in their platform not to punish them for launching on PS4 first because there is only so much work that can be done considering we're talking about more modest dev teams than AAA studios.
I get being served last sucks but this is better than putting devs in a difficult situation. Being indie is already hard enough in the market of today.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I was afraid you were going to take it that way. I moved to addressing those people instead of you. Sorry.