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[bomblord1]

I know this has been talked to death but a quick search hasn't found any threads purely dedicated to the subject I could have easily missed it though as my neogaf search fu is not at the level of blackbelt yet.

First, let's start with a few facts.

Iwata has said that the next console will "absorb the wiiU architecture"

Nintendo recently combined their console and handheld divisions

Iwata has said he wants the next console to have a flat architecture across systems

The wiiU has an incredible power efficiency

Next the speculation

The wiiU is a beast at performance per watt and given a few years to optimize it further (perhaps a die shrink?) it could reach handheld levels of power draw. Given that an average blu-ray drive consumes 25 watts of power if you were to make a handheld that cut out the wiiU's drive, usb ports, and unessential components you could easily bring the TDP down to next to nothing. Obviously the handheld won't be a literal wiiU but given a few years of optimization and a more efficient GPU from AMD the next handheld could be a wiiU in a handheld form factor.

Now I'm aware Iwata has said he doesn't want it to be a literal wiiU so there will be room for improvement. Given that there exists 1 teraflop mobile GPU's out now given a few years of optimization we could see Nintendo's next handheld possibly outperform the PS4/XOne.

Combine this with a docking station or some way to hook up to the TV we have a potential winner for a system that fits the bill for what Iwata has been cryptically talking about for a few years now.

Finally

I know your first response will probably be something like "There's no way Nintendo would go for such cutting edge technology" but keep in mind that Nintendo's Last 3 consoles have been based on failed ideas from previous generations. The Gameboy player was a thing and Nintendo has made handheld games playable on previous generations of consoles. Considering that the wiiU's architecture is still based on older designs absorbing it into a new yet more powerful console would fit with their lateral thinking with withered technology strategy. Making it considerably more powerful would not be an issue given the recent massive advancement in mobile tech and given it will take at least a year or 2 more to be announced/released I can comfortably say this console will more than likely be comparable to the PS4/X1.

TLDR Nintendo's next handheld will be a powerhouse that also plays console games.

Disclaimer I don't think this will replace their next console but simply play console games.

 

[Scrawnton]

I think a unified handheld is possible. I also think the next handheld will be powerful enough to run Wii U games to the point that nintendo will be making the same games for both systems; if you want to be a handheld gamer then enjoy them on the new handheld. If you wanna game on the big tv then buy the game on Wii U.

The only thing I ask for in the new handheld is that it retains the dual screens so that i can transfer all my 3ds purchases to it.

 

[MilesTeg]

The handheld comparable to PS4/Xbone in power? Haha no.

 

[Hero.of.Lgnd]

I think it would be interesting to see that free form screen tech be used for their handheld. Maybe a larger portion of the system can be a screen, expect there are simply cutouts for buttons and speakers etc.

 

[Interceptor]

TLDR Nintendo's next console will be a powerful handheld console hybrid.

Stop. Please. Stop.
It´s not going to happen. If you go by "facts" then please spend some time reading them.

 

[Jaagen]

I'm guessing we'll get something close to the Wii U in the levels of power(at least with a more advanced feature-set) with more RAM. And I don't think we'll see any display resolutions higher than 720p.

 

[Cheat Code]

Nintendo's next home console probably wont be as powerful at the PS4/X1, and frankly I doubt it needs to be.

 

[Sheroking]

Nintendo killed the hybrid idea/rumor didn't they?

 

[bomblord1]

Stop. Please. Stop.
It´s not going to happen. If you go by "facts" then please spend some time reading them.

I'm listening? I did a good amount of research before creating this topic but it's always possible I missed something.

 

[Interceptor]

Nintendo killed the hybrid idea/rumor didn't they?

Yes. A long time ago. Yet the internet brings this up on a daily basis.

I'm listening? I did a good amount of research before creating this topic but it's always possible I missed something.

Iwata himself said on multiple occassions that there will be at least one more handheld AND home console generation. They combined the R&D Departments. Nothing more.
The OS will be unified. THE OS. Like iOS and android. Does a new iOS version spark a debate on how apple doesn´t need tablets anymore since everything is unified? No.

 

[TheFinalDX]

Honestly, if Nintendo's next handled can have a 720p screen with 3D, I'll be a happy camper. The New 3DS makes it seem Nintendo's really bent on keeping and improving 3D.

One more thing: I don't believe Nintendo's next handheld will connect to a TV. However, it will be based on the same architecture as the next console.

 

[GameSeeker]

Nintendo's next console will be a powerful handheld console hybrid.

That seems extremely unlikely. Nintendo is all about being "different", so they look for a unique feature: dual screens, 3D screen, motion sensors, gamepad, etc.

Nintendo will put all their development budget in whatever is their next "different" feature. They will spend as little as possible on CPU, GPU, memory, and storage.

 

[bomblord1]

That seems extremely unlikely. Nintendo is all about being "different", so they look for a unique feature: dual screens, 3D screen, motion sensors, gamepad, etc.

Nintendo will put all their development budget in whatever is their next "different" feature. They will spend as little as possible on CPU, GPU, memory, and storage.

How is a handheld that plays console games and (or vice versa) not a "different" feature?

 

[MilesTeg]

How is a handheld that plays console games and (or vice versa) not a "different" feature?

Bottom line is Nintendo won't do this. As has been said by Iwata himself, they want to increase number of form factors, not decrease. A handheld console hybrid is a one way ticket to obscurity imo.

 

[bomblord1]

Yes. A long time ago. Yet the internet brings this up on a daily basis.



Iwata himself said on multiple occassions that there will be at least one more handheld AND home console generation. They combined the R&D Departments. Nothing more.
The OS will be unified. THE OS. Like iOS and android. Does a new iOS version spark a debate on how apple doesn´t need tablets anymore since everything is unified? No.

Bottom line is Nintendo won't do this. As has been said by Iwata himself, they want to increase number of form factors, not decrease. A handheld console hybrid is a one way ticket to obscurity imo.

How does that contradict what I say? Are you stuck on the "hybrid" word? I'll go ahead and edit my post to clear that up.

 

[Sheroking]

That seems extremely unlikely. Nintendo is all about being "different", so they look for a unique feature: dual screens, 3D screen, motion sensors, gamepad, etc.

Nintendo will put all their development budget in whatever is their next "different" feature. They will spend as little as possible on CPU, GPU, memory, and storage.

I don't think it's a matter of spending as little as possible. They'll spend what they can to the point where they can sell at a reasonable BOM and still be within reach of profit per unit.

 

[Interceptor]

How is a handheld that plays console games and (or vice versa) not a "different" feature?

There is no debate. They said they won´t do it. Period.
Iwata even mentioned iOS and android as an example. Unified software - not hardware.
Plain and simple: There won´t be a hybrid.

How does that contradict what I say? Are you stuck on the "hybrid" word? I'll go ahead and edit my post to clear that up.

Yes, i am stuck on your docking station and the word hybrid.
Imagine Iwata dancing naked singing nonono. Thats the answer to this. And we would still have a weekly debate on the hybrid ídea.

 

[bomblord1]

There is no debate. They said they won´t do it. Period.
Iwata even mentioned iOS and android as an example. Unified software - not hardware.
Plain and simple: There won´t be a hybrid.

Right, please read my previous post. I used a bad choice of words.

 

[Peltz]

Nintendo killed the hybrid idea/rumor didn't they?

I don't believe so. Last I've read is that they're simply evaluating every angle, but nothing is confirmed true.

I honestly think things are very much up in the air right now even within Nintendo's hardware R&D team(s). However, as far as Iwata has alluded to, it seems like we are looking at multiple devices next generation within a Nintendo "ecosystem".

But here's what people are missing: that doesn't necessarily mean a console and handheld. It could just be many different types of handhelds. Look at the 3DS and N3DS as an example or the DS and DSi.

Nintendo may be positioning their future hardware for yearly hardware revisions and upgraded specs on a year-by-year basis with service-subscription types of subsidies tied to the NNID. We really have no idea what they are planning.

They've referred to the NNID as their future platform in and of itself. Anything could happen, really, and it's impossible to predict what Nitnendo will do.

 

[QuickSilverD]

Now I'm aware Iwata has said he doesn't want it to be a literal wiiU so there will be room for improvement. Given that there exists 1 teraflop mobile GPU's out now given a few years of optimization we could see Nintendo's next handheld possibly outperform the PS4/XOne.

Just came in to say: you sir, are dreaming.

 

[ahm998]

Handheld can 720p/60 fps/3d and can run unreal engine 4 is enough.

 

[shark sandwich]

I think the "absorb the Wii U architecture" refers to using the same APIs and development tools across console and handheld. Not literally using the same instruction set architecture.

In a couple years Nintendo could easily deliver a handheld more powerful than PS3 (and more powerful than X1/PS4 in the CPU department). Will they? I doubt it. I think Nintendo will go for a mid-range SoC for their handheld. First, Nintendo values cost and battery life over raw power. Second, I don't think Nintendo even WANTS a powerful handheld.

The beauty of 3DS is that it allowed devs to spend a small fraction of a AAA console game's budget and yet still sell their games at console-like prices. IMO the last thing Nintendo wants is AAA handheld gaming.

 

[bomblord1]

There is no debate. They said they won´t do it. Period.
Iwata even mentioned iOS and android as an example. Unified software - not hardware.
Plain and simple: There won´t be a hybrid.



Yes, i am stuck on your docking station and the word hybrid.
Imagine Iwata dancing naked singing nonono. Thats the answer to this. And we would still have a weekly debate on the hybrid ídea.

My post was more about the idea that it will be a handheld wiiU. Aka a handheld that plays console (wiiU) games. This has nothing to do with replacing their next home console please get off of that idea. The docking station does not mean I believe it will replace their next console.

 

[Metal B]

Nintendo should create an dual-product: The next handheld is also the next controller of there new console. Pretty much having a Wii U Gamepad, which can be played without turning on the console. Consumers, who only want the handheld, can buy them separately, but all consoles will include the handheld. In the spirit of the Wii U people can use all the older input-devices (Wiimote, Wii Pro Controller, etc.) including the Wii U Gamepad as secondary controllers with the new console (so that no one needs to buy a expensive second controller).

The company would be changing the release of there games. Handheld games become the new download title, which will also be sold in stores. Since all the consoles include the handheld, they support both platforms. The console would also get there own titles. which use the power of the main console. As a new feature those games will include mini-games, which will be installed on the handheld and help you advancing in the main game (training Pokemons, collecting money in Zelda, etc.), they get a handheld-versions of the main-game (like Smash Bros 4 or Monster Hunter).

Nintendo killed the hybrid idea/rumor didn't they?

Is this true? Then there goes my idea. At least Nintendo should sell there handheld games on there console, it should be possible and they can easy support both products.

 

[MilesTeg]

My post was more about the idea that it will be a handheld wiiU. Aka a handheld that plays console (wiiU) games. This has nothing to do with the actual console please get off of that idea. The docking station does not mean I believe it will replace their next console.

Well you will have to forgive everyone for the confusion, because this docking station idea has been mentioned countless times alongside a hybrid concept. First I've heard of someone suggesting this without it replacing the console in Nintendo's business plans.

 

[bomblord1]

Well you will have to forgive everyone for the confusion, because this docking station idea has been mentioned countless times alongside a hybrid concept. First I've heard of someone suggesting this without it replacing the console in Nintendo's business plans.

I tried to edit my post to clear up the confusion I apologize. I dont' really want to remove the docking station from the post entirely though.

 

[SerTapTap]

Nintendo's next home console probably wont be as powerful at the PS4/X1, and frankly I doubt it needs to be.

Don't entirely agree. Compare all the "eh wii doesn't need HD graphics!" of back then to the "wow Mario Kart 8 is BLOWING MY MIND with these graphics" of now. Nintendo games benefit from added power as much as anyone else. And them playing the generation-behind game isn't doing them any favors anymore.

 

[Darkstorne]

My money's on it being a tablet that doubles as a Wii U gamepad. Can stream games to the Wii U to play on a big screen TV, and can play Wii U games on-the-go.

 

[Interceptor]

My post was more about the idea that it will be a handheld wiiU. Aka a handheld that plays console (wiiU) games. This has nothing to do with replacing their next home console please get off of that idea. The docking station does not mean I believe it will replace their next console.

If we only talk power i tend to agree. The next handheld will be there in mid/late 2016. Even if they go with some cheap solution it will by far outclass the Wii U. Not sure if it will reach X1 or PS4 levels but it wont be too far off. Why? Because Sony and MS cheaped out this time as well. I think it will be around the 500 GF - 1TF mark, given the resolution we will see comparable games.

 

[MilesTeg]

Nintendo should create an dual-product: The next handheld is also the next controller of there new console. Pretty much having a Wii U Gamepad, which can be played without turning on the console. Consumers, who only want the handheld, can buy them separately, but all consoles will include the handheld. In the spirit of the Wii U people can use all the older input-devices (Wiimote, Wii Pro Controller, etc.) including the Wii U Gamepad as secondary controllers with the new console (so that no one needs to buy a expensive second controller).

The company would be changing the release of there games. Handheld games become the new download title, which will also be sold in stores. Since all the consoles include the handheld, they support both platforms. The console would also get there own titles. which use the power of the main console. As a new feature those games will include mini-games, which will be installed on the handheld and help you advancing in the main game (training Pokemons, collecting money in Zelda, etc.), they get a handheld-versions of the main-game (like Smash Bros 4 or Monster Hunter).

I like the idea of the handheld acting as a controller, provided of course that it has all the necessary input methods of say the Gamepad, and is ergonomically sound for console play (unlike the 3DS).

However, forcing them into one package would be expensive. Almost a Wii U like situation in terms of price at retail. Better to sell them separate, thus selling to the traditional handheld market and traditional console market, while also getting some customers to double dip for the added functionality.

 

[Hero.of.Lgnd]

Don't entirely agree. Compare all the "eh wii doesn't need HD graphics!" of back then to the "wow Mario Kart 8 is BLOWING MY MIND with these graphics" of now. Nintendo games benefit from added power as much as anyone else. And them playing the generation-behind game isn't doing them any favors anymore.

I completely agree. Nintendo feels that there isn't room for them to have a top of the line console, but I think if they released something as powerful as the competition and had all the big 3rd party games plus Nintendo exclusives, they could kill.

 

[MegalonJJ]

Does the N3DS now have the same number of control input as the gamepad (barring the extra analogue stick click input)?

 

[drspeedy]

Just came in to say: you sir, are dreaming.

While I know the whole discussion will get threadcrapped by GAF's Nintendo and hardware, um, enthusiasts... the idea is not only valid but really is a very "Nintendo" thing to do. The idea of trying new control and interface schemes had been pretty much par for the course for Nintnedo since the SNES, I don't see why this won't be a valid approach if they really do it right.

We know that Ninty has seen the iOS unified platform ship sailing away with many of their potential game sales, combo handheld and console innards could be a very easy move for them- not saying it's the best or the most lucrative when fending off the mobile threat- and this might be the first time in hardware history where the tech would allow for a great experience when helmed by a talented and aware company with the experience N has.

It's definitlely a better idea than making N64 cart-only. Look at how well that played out...

 

[……forgetit]

It's not going to be a hybrid, they'll work together like the vita and ps4 though.

 

[MilesTeg]

Does the N3DS now have the same number of control input as the gamepad (barring the extra analogue stick click input)?

Not quite, it doesn't have clickable sticks. Not like Nintendo ever uses that though in their games.

edit:

Somehow missed that last part :|

 

[pinkurocket]

The only speculation I'd be willing to bet money on is a unified OS system. For console, handheld and even their QoL product(s).

 

[DizzyCrow]

Something like this

Or this(except the phone part)

 

[bomblord1]

Does the N3DS now have the same number of control input as the gamepad (barring the extra analogue stick click input)?

Doesn't have the second set of bumpers.

 

[MilesTeg]

Doesn't have the second set of bumpers.

Pretty sure N3DS adds two shoulder buttons.

 

[bomblord1]

Pretty sure N3DS adds two shoulder buttons.

Does it? I haven't held the new one but I know the previous ones didn't.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

What I'd like them to prioritise;
- cost
It should be cheap to buy

- size
It should reasonably fit in a pocket (the 3DSXL is really pushing the boundaries of this definition, it shouldn't be any larger)

- battery life
6 hour battery life just isn't good enough - they need to re-emphasise the importance of this, especially in standby

 

[atbigelow]

Nintendo has never stated an intent to create a "docking" handheld. It's a silly idea. They've repeatedly given the unified OS+platform example and people ignore it. They want to be able to make multiple hardware devices and easily use the same tools.

On the technical side, they'd be fools to stick with PowerPC for any devices. It's a good CPU platform, but nobody has made a PPC SOC. Especially one that will fit the power needs of a handheld. The Wii U takes 29-32w. That's even without the bluray drive being used, so you can toss that out as a power savings. And add the huge power draw of an LCD.

Also something people neglect to bring up is with these powerful mobile GPUs, the power draw when they are running at maximum chews through battery power. Nintendo would clock these parts way down to keep the ceiling lower so devs won't drain a handheld in three hours.

I'm not sure if Iwata literally meant "we will reuse the Wii U architecture." He said their next systems will "absorb" it. I'd put my money on them using an ARM SOC for all their devices, and replicating some of the things Nintendo really likes, such as EDRAM.

EDIT: I also wish Nintendo would go back to thinking about ergonomics for their handhelds. They always knock it out of the park with their console input design. But all their handheld designs since GBA SP have been bad.

 

[McHuj]

I'm hopeful that Nintendo is going to a unified development approach where the same game can run on different hardware with better or worse performance like an iOS games can.

I think it's time to move on beyond the mindset of here's a handheld and we're going to support it for X number of years until a new model comes out. Instead let Nintendo keep iterating every couple of years like phones do except they don't need to be on a yearly aggressive schedule. Let's say after 2-3 iterations (4-6 years) the device becomes obsolete.

I would try to hit three tiers: $129 (2DS-like aimed at kids low cost, maybe a single 480p screen), $179 bigger and maybe stronger GPU for a 720p screen, and $249 for the home console that can play the same games at 1080p. Unified account, cross buy, and cloud sync for the all the devices so you can play the same games anywhere.

 

[drspeedy]

Does it? I haven't held the new one but I know the previous ones didn't.

They're not ideal, but present.

 

[Hero.of.Lgnd]

What I'd like them to prioritise;
- cost
It should be cheap to buy

- size
It should reasonably fit in a pocket (the 3DSXL is really pushing the boundaries of this definition, it shouldn't be any larger)

- battery life
6 hour battery life just isn't good enough - they need to re-emphasise the importance of this, especially in standby

I think the size of the 3DS XL is perfect. It gives a nice big screen to play on, while, I think, still being portable. But I agree that it shouldn't be any larger.

 

[bomblord1]

Nintendo has never stated an intent to create a "docking" handheld. It's a silly idea. They've repeatedly given the unified OS+platform example and people ignore it. They want to be able to make multiple hardware devices and easily use the same tools.

On the technical side, they'd be fools to stick with PowerPC for any devices. It's a good CPU platform, but nobody has made a PPC SOC. Especially one that will fit the power needs of a handheld. The Wii U takes 29-32w. That's even without the bluray drive being used, so you can toss that out as a power savings. And add the huge power draw of an LCD.

Also something people neglect to bring up is with these powerful mobile GPUs, the power draw when they are running at maximum chews through battery power. Nintendo would clock these parts way down to keep the ceiling lower so devs won't drain a handheld in three hours.

I'm not sure if Iwata literally meant "we will reuse the Wii U architecture." He said their next systems will "absorb" it. I'd put my money on them using an ARM SOC for all their devices, and replicating some of the things Nintendo really likes, such as EDRAM.

EDIT: I also wish Nintendo would go back to thinking about ergonomics for their handhelds. They always knock it out of the park with their console input design. But all their handheld designs since GBA SP have been bad.

What about the GPGPU? It already offloads CPU work so an AMD APU with Nintendo's customizations could in theory run wiiU code without falling back to the PPC architecture.

 

[gingerbeardman]

My opinion on what he means:

Iwata has said that the next console will "absorb the wiiU architecture"

Next handheld will be HD. New 3DS already gives common control across both devices.

Nintendo recently combined their console and handheld divisions

Iwata has said he wants the next console to have a flat architecture across systems

Common development tools, 3D framework and API across both systems.
Not common hardware platform or CPU type.

The wiiU has an incredible power efficiency

ARM CPUs already give this for handheld.

 

[Trago]

Enough about specs, this thing better be clam shell or bust. I hope they don't give up on dual screens either.

 

[atbigelow]

I was thinking more along the lines of the GPU architecture first and foremost as that already offloads CPU work so an AMD APU with Nintendo's customizations could in theory run wiiU code.

AMD would have to make an SOC that included a PPC CPU. There's no way in hell you can just say "offload CPU calls from one architecture and run it on a GPU" at any decent speed or compatibility. "Offloads work" doesn't mean compatibility; it means you can program the GPU to run some code instead of the CPU and then funnel back.

Now, having said that, I don't think it would be a bad idea for Nintendo to include the Wii U CPU inside of their next "home" device. It would keep compatibility with existing Wii U software, while still letting the system run their new platform software. This is assuming their new platform is ARM-based.

Also, GPU architecture for the Wii U is just some Radeon-like something. Nintendo has already transitioned their workflow to use modern GPU programming. There's not much they need to "preserve" the Wii U GPU as it stands. That part has already been abstracted out. The CPU is the where the compatibility problems with arise.

 

[Theognosis]

With the exception of the docking station, I share your speculation. Nintendo will release the Wii U handheld as its PREMIUM handheld device in 2016.

Meantime, the Wii U we have today will remain as the multiplayer home console and the 3DS will remain as the affordable handheld for children.

Since all non-motion-controlled games on the Wii U eshop will run on the premium handheld, it makes sense for Nintendo to develop as many games on the Wii U in the years ahead. Third parties will join the Wii U bandwagon when this unified development strategy is formally announced.