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[The Maverick]

Yes but mobile power is on an exponential curve and typical cycles mean the handheld will be announced around 2016. Even at 512gflops Assuming the current curve continues a mobile GPU hitting 2 teraflops by the end of 2016 is very likely. Getting even a "weaker" modern (for 2016) GPU in the console if Nintendo goes with a 540p or even 720p screen outputting a game in that resolution that looks similar to a ps4/xone launch title should be possible.

You're crazy.

 

[Nikodemos]

I'm with z0m3le. 540p, a.k.a. qHD is an intuitive choice for a handheld based on an integrated architecture, since it scales neatly with 1080p, a.k.a. FHD.

Given that the Vita can push some pretty decent visuals with its SGX543 and 512(+128) MB of RAM, I'm fully confident that Nintendo will do quite well with a 20nm (not sure if they'll go for 16/14 nm, since they tend to stay one node behind the latest one, for cost reasons) GPU and 2 GB of LP-DDR4.

 

[TerryLee81]

All I wish for is a nice high res screen.

Knowing Nintendo, probably not going to happen.

 

[Nightbird]

You're crazy.

It's not that crazy. Small Screens do not need so much. 720p is the best thing we can hope for before it begins to be a waste of Power right now.

 

[E-Cat]

It's not that crazy. Small Screens do not need so much. 720p is the best thing we can hope for before it begins to be a waste of Power right now.

I think he was referring to the looking on par with PS4/XOne launch titles part.

 

[bomblord1]

You're crazy.

Going by the assumption that the next handheld hits at least 512GFLOPS I fail to understand how that makes me crazy.

 

[Graphics Horse]

1280x540 pls

 

[M3d10n]

Does AMD even have GPUs with smartphone-grade power draw? You people have some crazy expectations. Every time Nintendo is said to be working on new hardware GAF overshoots by a large margin. Man, the Wii U predictions were hilarious.

Spoiler

The handheld will be 800x480 and have performance similar to the iPhone 5S, at most. Cry me a river.

 

[E-Cat]

Going by the assumption that the next handheld hits at least 512GFLOPS I fail to understand how that makes me crazy.

Your assumption is flawed to begin with.

Tegra X1 will be manufactured on the 20nm process. Let's say it will be released in the second half of 2015. The earliest launch date for its successor would be in H2/2016 on the 16nm process. However, Nintendo will almost certainly not commit to such a new, pricey process with potentially low yields.

A 20nm SoC with 3w power draw would achieve 512 * 0.3 = ~150 GFLOPS. Do not expect anything higher. Even this is assuming Nintendo will opt for relatively new tech, which has not been the case for a couple generations now. Wii U, as the most recent example, uses a not quite high-end GPU from 2008.

 

[Nikodemos]

A 20nm SoC with 3w power draw would achieve 512 * 0.3 = ~150 GFLOPS. Even this is assuming Nintendo would opt for relatively new tech, which has not been the case for a couple generations now. Wii U, as the most recent example, uses a not quite high-end GPU from 2008.

The Mullins (Puma) A10 Micro-6700T manages 128 GFLOPS on a relatively unimpressive 28 nm process at 4.5W TDP (2.8 W SDP). A better-tuned Puma+-based design with Tonga (GCN 1.2) improvements on 20 nm could easily reach 150 GFLOPS without the need for high binning (expensive) at sub-3 W TDP. Which is about, what, four times higher than what the 3DS is capable of? Though it's unknown whether AMD will go through with 20 nm parts since they've occasionally hinted that they would want to skip it completely and go for Samsung/GloFo's 14 nm process.

This is mostly academic, however, since pretty much everybody apart for Intel has moved to ARM for mobile.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Nintendo's going to release a sub-$200 handheld that is a generational leap over the 3DS but shares a common architecture with the Wii U to make certain crossplay things (like indie titles, VC games, titles like Captain Toad or Luigi's Mansion DM, Smash Bros.) available on both systems, possibly in different forms.

They'll probably release a bigger version of this same handheld for over $200.

Expecting anything else is asking to be disappointed.

 

[Plinko]

Nintendo would be wise to shoot for $150 or, better yet, $99 tops when this thing eventually releases. The dedicated handheld market just isn't there any more.

 

[Nikodemos]

Nintendo would be wise to shoot for $150 or, better yet, $99 tops when this thing eventually releases. The dedicated handheld market just isn't there any more.

$99 is simply too low. You either have to go really cheap on the innards or destroy the profit margin on hardware (which is one of Nintendo's fundamental pillars). For $99 you might as well keep selling the 3DS.

$149 is doable, and, quite likely, the prudent option in a world of free-with-rip-off-contract phones. Though some of GAF's more... idealistic members would definitely feel disappointed by the performance level.

 

[Links_fantasy]

I hope Nintendo makes one handheld/console that can be played on the tv. I finish way more RPG's on portables and also it would have a continuous stream of games from Nintendo alone. As they wouldn't have to split between two consoles.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Does AMD even have GPUs with smartphone-grade power draw? You people have some crazy expectations. Every time Nintendo is said to be working on new hardware GAF overshoots by a large margin. Man, the Wii U predictions were hilarious.

Spoiler

The handheld will be 800x480 and have performance similar to the iPhone 5S, at most. Cry me a river.

The sad part was when the Wii U predictions from some were incredibly low and Nintendo didn't even manage to match that with the final hardware.

 

[magnumpy]

$99 is simply too low. You either have to go really cheap on the innards or destroy the profit margin on hardware (which is one of Nintendo's fundamental pillars). For $99 you might as well keep selling the 3DS.

$149 is doable, and, quite likely, the prudent option in a world of free-with-rip-off-contract phones. Though some of GAF's more... idealistic members would definitely feel disappointed by the performance level.

3DS is already $200 new, right now. as you say, they might as well keep selling the 3DS. unless their new handheld will sell for even less than their current handheld (say for $150,) which is kind of hard to wrap my mind around.

 

[Guevara]

Maybe the console is real small but the handheld is huge and the console actually docks into the handheld!

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I hope Nintendo makes one handheld/console that can be played on the tv. I finish way more RPG's on portables and also it would have a continuous stream of games from Nintendo alone. As they wouldn't have to split between two consoles.

I'd like that as well. And that's one of the few paths I could see possibly getting me to buy another Nintendo system. The library would probably be worth it for me if they weren't splitting games between two platforms.

But as others have said, I doubt they'd go from two revenue streams to one.

 

[Ansatz]

I hope it finally gets bluetooth with support for standard audio profiles and GPS support for Geopassing.

This whole hybrid thing is stupid. Different form factors have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't play Candy Crush on my Mac and I don't edit spreadsheets on my iPod. In gaming this is even more pronounced with couch multiplayer, motion controls, and unique interactions like Streetpass. It's important to deliver both because one device cannot possibly cover it.

Agreed, but imo every game Nintendo develops should be playable independent of your form factor of choice. Similar to the Smash Bros. 4 treatment, not the Mario Kart 7 / 8 or Mario 3D Land / World approach.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

I just want this to happen... at some point in time..... ughhh

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Sony drew a blueprint and on how to build a perfect handheld, it wasn't successful due to a lack of system selling software, but that just happens to be Nintendo's biggest strength.

 

[Snakeyes]

Haven't we learned our lesson with the last two official Nintendo hardware speculation threads?

 

[Lingitiz]

Sony drew a blueprint and on how to build a perfect handheld, it wasn't successful due to a lack of system selling software, but that just happens to be Nintendo's biggest strength.

Vita is a great piece of tech but definitely not perfect.

 

[Nikodemos]

Haven't we learned our lesson with the last two official Nintendo hardware speculation threads?

But it's fun! Besides, we now have a better picture of what Nintendo aims for in their hardware.

 

[Turrican3]

Thx to Turrican3.

You're welcome.

I really really find it baffling that some people still believe Nintendo is going to pull a hybrid device.

 

[GhostTrick]

Does AMD even have GPUs with smartphone-grade power draw? You people have some crazy expectations. Every time Nintendo is said to be working on new hardware GAF overshoots by a large margin. Man, the Wii U predictions were hilarious.

Spoiler

The handheld will be 800x480 and have performance similar to the iPhone 5S, at most. Cry me a river.

iPhone 5s (so dual core 64bit arm) and PowerVR G6430 and I cry a river ?
Hahahha oh man, that's what I call optimistic. A 64 bit arm cpu and a 128 alu part.

I still expect Nintendo to throw around a quad core cortex a7 and a gpu from dmp.

 

[SmokyDave]

As someone that loves handhelds, I wish I could get excited about the future. All I want is something on par with smartphones, with a great screen, dual analogues, and lots of western third party support.

Might as well ask for a unicorn that shits chocolate cake

Vita is a great piece of tech but definitely not perfect.

Agreed. Ditch the rear touch, add analogue L2 / R2 & L3/R3 and then it's perfect.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

As someone that loves handhelds, I wish I could get excited about the future. All I want is something on par with smartphones, with a great screen, dual analogues, and lots of western third party support.

Might as well ask for a unicorn that shits chocolate cake


Agreed. Ditch the rear touch, add analogue L2 / R2 & L3/R3 and then it's perfect.

Give it time. It's only a matter of time until someone makes a handheld that plays PC games. The Steam handheld is the future.

Spoiler

Please be the future.

 

[AmyS]

So first off, Nvidia is lying, the mobile GPU X1 is a 10watt apu that does 512GFLOPs not 1TFLOP, they use this number because the X1's FP16 peak performance is 1TFLOPs, however this is half precision, they also note that FP32 peak performance is 512GFLOPs, which is single precision and what everyone is noting when they talk about performance.

That was a 10 watt part, Nintendo will need a part under 3watts. Looking at AMD mullins, we find a 128GFLOPs part on 28nm @ 500mhz using only 2.8watts. Perfect, now Nintendo will be using 14nm most likely, because AMD will be offering it in 2016 thanks to samsung and global founderies. This could mean 256GFLOPs at ~3watts. Great, that is more powerful than Wii U's GPU which is 176GFLOPs, and if Nintendo's handheld is 480p or 540p (my preference as this is 1/4th of a 1080p screen and thus goes 4x further) you have a handheld that can perform alongside a much more powerful console (say ~8x more powerful) giving the console 1080p @ 60fps (16CUs @ 1GHz for 2TFLOPs of performance) and the handheld 540p @ 30fps displaying the same scene roughly. you'd only need 4x the memory, especially if it's faster, so 2GB in the handheld (like Wii U) and 8GB in the console.

Nintendo's real exciting thing here though is not that their handheld might be much more powerful than Wii U, but that all future titles will likely be made for both devices, allowing the company to focus on releasing their 25+ titles across both and focusing not on making 2 versions of the same game (smash 3DS and smash U or MK7 and MK8) but on creating just one of those games in each series + new games in new genres while never having to worry about droughts, also Vita's love for indies should transfer over to Nintendo's next handheld, the barrier for 3DS is the old tech, but Wii U has strong indie support now and we could see this happen in both devices as releasing content on one could be impossible, meaning creating a title on a Nintendo platform means making a game for 2 devices at the same time with only fidelity changing between handheld and console.

The numbers have been thrown around by a GAF member, and he has shown that it is much more profitable to make 1 game for 2 devices than 2 games for 2 different devices, even if only 1 device gets the sales in this "NintendOS" setup. Another benefit is marketing 1 platform, "NintendOS" is easier than marketing 2 separate platforms, it becomes a much more compelling set up for Nintendo and makes too much sense.

We talk about how successful PS4 is with it's 18.5m units sold in 1 year and how brutally poor 3DS and Wii U have done across their 3 and 2 years respectfully, but together those platforms have sold ~60m units in 3 and 2 years combined, even if you threw out Wii U's market completely, ~50m+ units in 3 years is a market that Nintendo can release huge titles like zelda and xenoblade x and take risks because those titles have a base that can support them. 3rd parties while not being universally accepting of Nintendo, are much more likely to come back if they can make 1 game to target both a handheld and console together with a userbase of 50m+. Both of those platforms had horrible launch and first years, so that number might change drastically for the better, how many people here would buy/already own a device that came out in 2011 and played all future 3DS and Wii U titles? Bayonetta on a handheld? yes please!? How about Fire Emblem Awakening or Pokemon X/Y on a console? UH take my money.

This poor output Nintendo is stuck with supporting 2 platforms will be gone forever, that is what the promise of NintendOS is, so don't worry about the specs too much, even if the handheld is only 128GFLOPs, at 540p that is going to be very similar to Wii U and considering the ~4inch screen that they are likely to use? you'll be looking at a higher DPI than Vita, very close to smart phones from only a couple years ago in terms of resolution, with performance around the top of the line today.

this post nailed it.

 

[E-phonk]

this post nailed it.

It nailed everything I would want from nintendo's next handheld - console yeah. But let's see how it goes...

 

[test_account]

I strongly doubt that. They need to go under $199 if they can.

Yeah, i can see it being lower than $199 as well. I just ment to say that i cant see it being anything more expencive than $199, that this is the absolute maximum price

 

[AmyS]

a). I do not like the idea (and I believe it will not happen) that Nintendo's next handheld will be some sort of hybrid that serves as both a portable and console. I firmly believe there will be at least two separate devices. They'll share the same NintendOS and probably the same CPU instruction set and GPU maker. But won't have the same number of CPU cores, GPU SPs, tmus, rops, clockspeeds. , RAM capacity, bus size, bandwidths, etc. Nintendo will be able to bring out higher performance portables and consoles every 5 or so years like Apple and Android do every year, if they want.

b) Nvidia's Tegra X1 (apples to apples comparison) is 500 Gflops (standard 32-bit, single precision)

vs.

240 Gflops - Xbox 360's Xenos/C1 GPU
192 Gflops - PS3's 'RSX' GPU
176 Gflops - Wii U's 'Latte' GPU

1310 Gflops (1.31 Tflop) for Xbox One GPU.
1840 Gflops (1.84 Tflop) GPU PS4 GPU.

Tegra X1 has better raw shader/compute performance than the GPUs in 360, PS3 and Wii U, but less than 1/2 of Xbox One GPU and less than 1/3 of PS4 GPU.

 

[Rodney McKay]

Give it time. It's only a matter of time until someone makes a handheld that plays PC games. The Steam handheld is the future.

Spoiler

Please be the future.

I already own it, and it's pretty great!

Spoiler

The Nvidia Shield

Sure it doesn't run PC games natively, but it's powerful enough to run most emulators up to N64/PS1 natively, and I've actually been very impressed with the PC game streaming, both in home and away (if you have a good 5GHz wifi router to connect to).

The system itself is a heavy beast, but it's super comfy, has great analog sticks, and full analog trigger with R2/L2+R3/L3.

 

[Adam Prime]

... So the WiiU GamePad is sort of the "test run" for this idea of playing off-screen your console games on a hand held?

 

[Lutherian]

You're welcome.

I really really find it baffling that some people still believe Nintendo is going to pull a hybrid device.

A little Off Topic but man, you have the greatest name and avatar ^^. Remember : shoot or die !