Jimmyfenix
Member
Look at his pre-edit a few pages up that I quoted.
Yup just found it
And there it is, they don't even have a copy of the alleged parity clause.
SMH
Look at his pre-edit a few pages up that I quoted.
And there it is, they don't even have a copy of the alleged parity clause.
Hey, I just wanted to come in here to say that Broforce looks rad, and it's cool they have a good deal with Sony. As far as I can tell from checking this afternoon, they have never contacted ID@Xbox about coming to Xbox, so our policies don't really come into it, not really sure why they brought that up.
We've said before we want to make sure every game that wants to come to Xbox One can do it, and if developers have any questions they should get in touch with us at id@xbox.com. (And yes, Id love to see Broforce come to Xbox One!)
For something we've known since the top of the thread? Well caught, sir.Boom
Neither company is a saint but it isn't like we haven't seen ample examples of their distinct behavior in this particular context (how they accommodate small devs). Let's not act like there isn't a clear difference that's been well established over the past couple of years. Stop trying to handwave everything as "SAME SAME".I find it "hilarious" (or rather, puzzling) that people are so one sided with their opinions of either company, if ANY developer would have said that MS made them an offer they couldn't refuse then you would hear exactly the same thing being aimed at Microsoft.
Default GAF position : Sony "support" and "nurture" whilst Microsoft hold developers at gunpoint with their moneybags.
So it's not getting released on XBO because Sony struck a deal with them. Doesn't even sound like the guy knows much about the parity clause or has even talked to MS. Nice thread title though.
So it's not getting released on XBO because Sony struck a deal with them. Doesn't even sound like the guy knows much about the parity clause or has even talked to MS. Nice thread title though.
And there it is, they don't even have a copy of the alleged parity clause.
People forget that we can read edited posts, huh."alleged". FOH
True story - one of the titles I EP'd on last-gen required development money being allocated to the publisher who agreed to give us one of their slots. That's money that could have gone into the game, but whatever. The problem is that the only way we could get that slot was to agree to a publishing agreement on all platforms, not just 360. All thanks to one platform's policies.RIGHT.
Forgot about the good ol' slot system and Microsoft publishing all the indie games that couldn't find a publisher.
Seriously, you should have just posted "tl;dr" and saved us the trouble.tl;dr.
Don't be thick. You won't find contractual language online and no developer is going to break NDA to jump through your hoops. What they can tell you is the nature of how the program works, backed up by Phil Spencer's own words on first-class citizenry.
Everyone who says 'oh this will obviously hurt MS' is missing the point.
MS are not interested in bringing indie games to the platform unless there's immediate money to be made out of it. They don't want a game that only shifts 10k units, they only want the indies that are going to be breakout hits.
So they don't care that they're getting less than half the number of games, what they care about is making sure they get the 'right' indie games. If ever a game does come along that looks like it's going to be that breakout hit (a la Minecraft) you bet they'll be there ready to swoop in with a moneyhat and lock that exclusivity down.
MS is one of the most short-term orientated tech companies out there. They're infamous for not getting aboard the long-term trends in tech until they've already passed. They either haven't cottoned on to what Sony have already realised (that a diverse indie portfolio has a halo effect for your brand) or they don't care about it. What they want are the indie games that sell millions of units, nothing less.
One post from ccharla
And whilst this may be the default policy that is in place we are still only getting feedback from outspoken developers who aren't involved with MS' indie program in the first place, in this case from a developer that is in Sony's pocket.
I'm unsure as to why very few are questioning this.
I work for a huge multinational company and my job is to deal with independent businesses. We have blanket policies, pricing and terms which we make available to everyone. But for those businesses who work with us and engage with us in professional manner, we go outside of these default policies to make sure they are successful. My perspective actually don't see this situation to be significantly different to that.
If an indie developer is going to make its commercial decisions based upon Internet hearsay without even evaluating their options, then they are actually the ones who will suffer. They have more to gain than the platform holder does on this single occasion.
One post from ccharla
So why does the parity clause even exist?Hey, I just wanted to come in here to say that Broforce looks rad, and it's cool they have a good deal with Sony. As far as I can tell from checking this afternoon, they have never contacted ID@Xbox about coming to Xbox, so our policies don't really come into it, not really sure why they brought that up.
We've said before we want to make sure every game that wants to come to Xbox One can do it, and if developers have any questions they should get in touch with us at id@xbox.com. (And yes, Id love to see Broforce come to Xbox One!)
Chris, if the perception of the program keeps developers from even bothering to contact you, that's a problem that needs fixing.
And whilst this may be the default policy that is in place we are still only getting feedback from outspoken developers who aren't involved with MS' indie program in the first place, in this case from a developer that is in Sony's pocket.
I'm unsure as to why very few are questioning this.
I work for a huge multinational company and my job is to deal with independent businesses. We have blanket policies, pricing and terms which we make available to everyone. But for those businesses who work with us and engage with us in professional manner, we go outside of these default policies to make sure they are successful. My perspective actually don't see this situation to be significantly different to that.
If an indie developer is going to make its commercial decisions based upon Internet hearsay without even evaluating their options, then they are actually the ones who will suffer. They have more to gain than the platform holder does on this single occasion.
And whilst this may be the default policy that is in place we are still only getting feedback from outspoken developers who aren't involved with MS' indie program in the first place, in this case from a developer that is in Sony's pocket.
I'm unsure as to why very few are questioning this.
If an indie developer is going to make its commercial decisions based upon Internet hearsay without even evaluating their options, then they are actually the ones who will suffer. They have more to gain than the platform holder does on this single occasion.
One post from ccharla
Hey, I just wanted to come in here to say that Broforce looks rad, and it's cool they have a good deal with Sony. As far as I can tell from checking this afternoon, they have never contacted ID@Xbox about coming to Xbox, so our policies don't really come into it, not really sure why they brought that up.
We've said before we want to make sure every game that wants to come to Xbox One can do it, and if developers have any questions they should get in touch with us at id@xbox.com. (And yes, Id love to see Broforce come to Xbox One!)
Nice, coming from the guy laughing at people for being "hilariously one-sided"in this case from a developer that is in Sony's pocket.
Reading charla's post it seems the Broforce Devs just assumed the parity clause was there and would be a hassle so didn't even bother contacting them just to see?
I mean, the exceptions to this rule are all over the place, I don't see why they couldnt at least make a quick phone call or drop them an email. In this particular case it looks more like they used the parity clause as a shield so they don't have to tell people they just got a money hat.
And whilst this may be the default policy that is in place we are still only getting feedback from outspoken developers who aren't involved with MS' indie program in the first place, in this case from a developer that is in Sony's pocket.
I'm unsure as to why very few are questioning this.
I work for a huge multinational company and my job is to deal with independent businesses. We have blanket policies, pricing and terms which we make available to everyone. But for those businesses who work with us and engage with us in professional manner, we go outside of these default policies to make sure they are successful. My perspective actually don't see this situation to be significantly different to that.
If an indie developer is going to make its commercial decisions based upon Internet hearsay without even evaluating their options, then they are actually the ones who will suffer. They have more to gain than the platform holder does on this single occasion.
This internet hearsay from the head of the division?If an indie developer is going to make its commercial decisions based upon Internet hearsay
Reading charla's post it seems the Broforce Devs just assumed the parity clause was there and would be a hassle so didn't even bother contacting them just to see?
I mean, the exceptions to this rule are all over the place, I don't see why they couldnt at least make a quick phone call or drop them an email. In this particular case it looks more like they used the parity clause as a shield so they don't have to tell people they just got a money hat.
One post from ccharla
Hey, I just wanted to come in here to say that Broforce looks rad, and it's cool they have a good deal with Sony. As far as I can tell from checking this afternoon, they have never contacted ID@Xbox about coming to Xbox, so our policies don't really come into it, not really sure why they brought that up.
We've said before we want to make sure every game that wants to come to Xbox One can do it, and if developers have any questions they should get in touch with us at id@xbox.com. (And yes, I’d love to see Broforce come to Xbox One!)
Reading charla's post it seems the Broforce Devs just assumed the parity clause was there and would be a hassle so didn't even bother contacting them just to see?
I mean, the exceptions to this rule are all over the place, I don't see why they couldnt at least make a quick phone call or drop them an email. In this particular case it looks more like they used the parity clause as a shield so they don't have to tell people they just got a money hat.
Because how would you know if a game really wants to come to XBone without the willingness to jump through completely unnecessary hoops and arbitrarily endangering it's chances of getting to other platforms? There's really no other way!So why does the parity clause even exist?
Is one of your company's blanket policies, "If you're not willing to short-change our competitors and generally hold back the entire industry while we try to catch up, then you're likely not worth our time"?I work for a huge multinational company and my job is to deal with independent businesses. We have blanket policies, pricing and terms which we make available to everyone. But for those businesses who work with us and engage with us in professional manner, we go outside of these default policies to make sure they are successful. My perspective actually don't see this situation to be significantly different to that.
Hey, I just wanted to come in here to say that Broforce looks rad, and it's cool they have a good deal with Sony. As far as I can tell from checking this afternoon, they have never contacted ID@Xbox about coming to Xbox, so our policies don't really come into it, not really sure why they brought that up.
We've said before we want to make sure every game that wants to come to Xbox One can do it, and if developers have any questions they should get in touch with us at id@xbox.com. (And yes, Id love to see Broforce come to Xbox One!)
THEY SHOULD NOT NEED TO BEG FOR EXCEPTIONS.
Jesus.
This, right here, is one of the best reasons to read GAF.
Who said beg?
All they had to do was drop Chris an email saying "Hey, want Broforce on Xbox?" I'm fairly confident Chris would have made it happen. Same as Outlast, same as Stick it to the Man and the same as all the other indie games that seemingly haven't been affected by this clause.
No need to be upset. I'm not arguing the clause should remain. Read my first post in this thread. But I'm now talking about this very specific case. This particular case seems less like the parity clause being the issue then it first appears.
Chris, if the perception of the program keeps developers from even bothering to contact you, that's a problem that needs fixing.
If the parity clause is truly as flexible and non-shitty as people seem to be implying, they need to go public with the full contract and all its terms. If there are no explicit policies and they just play it by ear, they need to write some.
Why don't you just shut up, be a professional and let EvB run your businessThe perception issue is real.
Between our (extremely negative) experiences with MS on Skullgirls and this perception issue, we didn't really pursue Xbox One. I was about to start looking into it, but then Sony aggressively pursued us.
So it's not only that the parity clause, MS's policies, etc. make people slow to act, it's that Sony is extremely proactively aggressive about approaching devs and signing agreements.
I do have legitimate concerns about the Xbox One just as a platform for indies, though.
My impression is that indies, even high profile ones, just don't sell very well on there. Maybe it's a store / placement issue, but I'm more concerns that Xbox players are only interested in AAA games and no amount of push from MS will change their minds on that.
At some point devs may start even foregoing MS's exclusivity offers because the advance just isn't enough to justify delaying on a platform that sells better.
Why don't you just shut up, be a professional and let EvB run your business
And whilst this may be the default policy that is in place we are still only getting feedback from outspoken developers who aren't involved with MS' indie program in the first place, in this case from a developer that is in Sony's pocket.
I'm unsure as to why very few are questioning this.
I work for a huge multinational company and my job is to deal with independent businesses. We have blanket policies, pricing and terms which we make available to everyone. But for those businesses who work with us and engage with us in professional manner, we go outside of these default policies to make sure they are successful. My perspective actually don't see this situation to be significantly different to that.
If an indie developer is going to make its commercial decisions based upon Internet hearsay without even evaluating their options, then they are actually the ones who will suffer. They have more to gain than the platform holder does on this single occasion.
Why?Who said beg?
All they had to do was drop Chris an email saying "Hey, want Broforce on Xbox?" I'm fairly confident Chris would have made it happen. Same as Outlast, same as Stick it to the Man and the same as all the other indie games that seemingly haven't been affected by this clause.
No need to be upset. I'm not arguing the clause should remain. Read my first post in this thread. But I'm now talking about this very specific case. This particular case seems less like the parity clause being the issue than it first appears.
Who said beg?
All they had to do was drop Chris an email saying "Hey, want Broforce on Xbox?" I'm fairly confident Chris would have made it happen. Same as Outlast, same as Stick it to the Man and the same as all the other indie games that seemingly haven't been affected by this clause.
No need to be upset. I'm not arguing the clause should remain. Read my first post in this thread. But I'm now talking about this very specific case. This particular case seems less like the parity clause being the issue than it first appears.
Internet hearsay? How thick do you have to be?
In this situation it might as well be. They have no first hand experience of said clause, they said this themselves and Charla has confirmed this. They know as much about this much cited parity clause as you or I it seems.
They've taken a kickback and then in the same breath suggested that they CAN'T release their game due to a clause which for all they know, may have been a non issue.
They've avoided the awkward question by blaming someone else for them choosing to take said benefit.
Just drop them an email. It's all good.
Oh they talk out of both sides of their mouths on Twitter for everyone to see.
Again, they should never have to. Allow devs to set their dev plans and budgets without fucking with them,
Point blank.
I'm fully on board with the parity clause being dumb. But again, in this case, it seems like they just didn't want to bother because they assumed it would be a hassle. In the end, I'm pretty sure at some point you'd have to contact Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft about making a game on their platform anyway no?
So how hard would it be to send an email? That's it. Worst case scenario, Chris Charla says no thanks and you move on.
Again, please don't miunderstand my post to relate to all indie Devs who have been genuinely fucked over by this clause, because I'm aware they exist. But I don't believe this to be one of those cases. I'll say again, many many many games have already not been affected by the clause. So if all it would have taken is a simple email, then why not send it? You'd have to contact them anyway wouldn't you?
Hey, I just wanted to come in here to say that Broforce looks rad, and it's cool they have a good deal with Sony. As far as I can tell from checking this afternoon, they have never contacted ID@Xbox about coming to Xbox, so our policies don't really come into it, not really sure why they brought that up.
We've said before we want to make sure every game that wants to come to Xbox One can do it, and if developers have any questions they should get in touch with us at id@xbox.com. (And yes, Id love to see Broforce come to Xbox One!)