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[Shpeshal Nick]

No one really celebrates our culture here.

Hence the word try.

I'm aware token shit like Indigenous Round in the AFL doesn't mean much.

 

[Loakum]

I'm sorry but if it was a bunch of white woman sending negative tweets to a black young lady wearing a blonde weave, (saying that's for "our white culture") it would instantly be called racist (because if would be racist). So how is it, anyone can say with a straight face, those tweets (in the story above) aren't racist?

*waits*

 

[K.Jack]

That said, I can also understand the frustration from black women who take it personally as they feel they've depended on braids just to manage their hair and get on in society. It's probably frustrating to see some little white girl just adopt the hairstyle because it's coming back into style.

I don't understand that, at all.

 

[DJ Crimson]

I don't understand that, at all.

Because of the huge pressure society places on how women look.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I'm sorry but if it was a bunch of white woman sending negative tweets to a black young lady wearing a blonde weave, (saying that's for "our white culture") it would instantly be called racist (because if would be racist). So how is it, anyone can say with a straight face, those tweets (in the story above) aren't racist?

*waits*

you should quote who you're replying to. would probably cut down on the wait.

unless...

 

[sonikokaruto]

I'm sorry but if it was a bunch of white woman sending negative tweets to a black young lady wearing a blonde weave, (saying that's for "our white culture") it would instantly be called racist (because if would be racist). So how is it, anyone can say with a straight face, those tweets (in the story above) aren't racist?

*waits*

In mexico, it is not unusual to have girls wear this kind of hairdo :/

I think it is a matter of education and playing the race card just because

 

[royalan]

This needs to be posted on every page apparently.

And again, I'm not talking about the little girl anymore, she can shave her head for all I care. I'm speaking WHY people complain about cultural appropriation. The answer while obvious to me is apparently lost on many people in this thread, as they write about these fictious utopias in which all groups are treated equal and complaining about cultural appropriation is stupid.

The MAIN reason any group ever complains about culture appropriation is because that group feels oppressed. If people want minority groups to stop crying about cultural appropriation the answer is simple. Stop being complacent on how America treats minority groups. If said groups were treated nearly as well as so many people's utopic visions...I doubt this thread would even exist.

The little girl did nothing wrong, the argument of hair being exclusive to one group is dumb. Now divorcing ourselves from this little girl, I'm going to explain to people why some people draw issues with something as insignificant as hairstyles. In America the metric standard of beauty has and still is straight luscious hair. It's the standard that all women are measured at. This is doubly damining toward black females as straight hair is not the natural state of black female hair. The various methods to achieve said hair is scarring and expensive. Every day that idea is reinforced to black women by TV, Music, movies, photos and all other avenues. They're often told their natural hair is "ugly and unkempt", "nappy headed" and that they would look better if they straightened it.

Many black women started embracing hair styles more suitable to their hair, and again are greeted with the same negative attitudes towards it. And for just as long as these women have been ridiculed for their hairstyles; magazines and other avenues pour on accolades when the fairer skinned females do the same thing (Bo Derek as an exampled was lauded for it and many found the style refreshing and new, despite the fact at the same time many establishments and news/media were flat out calling black women who had this hairstyle "ghetto" or "unattractive". Or a better example would be Kylie Jenner or whatever her name is when she rocked half braids or whatever and Vogue or whoever stated it was "brand new, bold, and innovative hair style" rightfully black people, females especially were upset with the statements and the magazine and much less Kylie, in fact most people gave two fucks about Kylie herself and drew issue with the magazine perpetuating the idea that white is right and black is wack.

Or a better example check out that NeoGAF thread on Lupita's hair style, many suggesting she grow it out and straigten it, and many more saying she looks like a boy and her hairstyle is ugly. That is what black women face, that is what America says to black women and their natural hair. Or check the NeoGAF thread about the young African American girl who was expelled from her school for keeping her hair natural and the school telling her to straighten it.

The issue shouldn't be with this little girl, the issue should be and is with how American media views the two groups when they do the same thing and the effect it has on members of each group in how they perceive themselves and how they perceive themselves relative to the other group. Much like you and others don't want people judging this little girl for simply doing box braids, the same needs to be applied to these twitter users. They're not representatives of black culture, yet too many people in here are making damning statements about the culture because of what a few bumfucks stated on NeoGAF and that irony is lost on these posters.

Or to make it relatable to anyone with a drop of empathy. Imagine have two sons/daughters; and they both do the same thing. You constantly praise one for it and insult/demean the other for doing the same thing...what is the expected outcome? How do you think it'll affect how they view not only his/herself and you but also the sibling who has done absolutely nothing wrong. Then you have the mother who doesn't care that this is happening. Obviously in my analogy the sibling in question would most likely realize that father is an asshole and would probably try to shine light on their sibling. This too is done in our society you see those people all the time throughout history, whites who rallied with MLK and did the million man march, those who take part in the #BlackLivesMatter movement. You also have the equivalents of mothers in our society, you know these as the "I don't see race" or "It's not happening to me so who cares" type people. And much like in society, mom and dad's voice and influence is so much more powerful than your siblings and will mark you much more deeply.

At this point, most of us aren't talking about the little girl anymore and we're now talking about American society at large (tends to happen with these threads). We've already had a number of people with the usual "Cultural appropriation is stupid because here is my utopia dream of how we treat each other in the US". and other such nonsense that really should be dismissed but we can't help but respond to such nonsense.

Again, divorce yourself from the little girl because it's no longer about her. I'm no longer talking about her, she is an anchor to none of my posts anymore. She doesn't speak for America at large much like any one black person doesn't speak for African Americans at large.

The girl can do with what she wants with her hair, no one should draw issue with that. People should redirect their anger to the massive cog that is American news, media, employment and how they they view and treat the different groups of people when they do the same thing. It is because of that different treatment that we have the cries of cultural appropriation.

A few posters have made the suggestion that blacks are segregating themselves and that they should be trying to assimilate and this is the best way...these people (bless their hearts) clearly speak from a place of either privilege (trigger word!) or ignorance (double trigger!). Black people have been trying to "assimilate" since they were brought here. Blacks are simply responding to the segregation being afflicted upon them, in order for blacks to segregate themselves you have to put forward the argument that segregation has ended....it really hasn't. Segregation ends when racism ends and racism in this country is far from over.

It was called white flight not black flight, black people have been trying to assimilate for fucking ages, too bad the majority group by large doesn't want said assimilation and passes law after law to disenfranchise, imprison and generally keep blacks in a fucked state out of hatred, fear and stupidity, and what's worse is that so many Americans are completely fine with it, and others even blame black people saying things like "earn it first". Black people have "earned" equality 600x over.

I went on a craaaazy bit of tagents but meh.

TL;DR - No one is talking about the little girl at this point, divorce yourself from her.

Again, great post Angelus.

 

[ISOM]

I'm sorry but if it was a bunch of white woman sending negative tweets to a black young lady wearing a blonde weave, (saying that's for "our white culture") it would instantly be called racist (because if would be racist). So how is it, anyone can say with a straight face, those tweets (in the story above) aren't racist?

*waits*

It seems like you are arguing against an imaginary person or position. The thread is no longer really about the girl anymore.

 

[Dead Man]

This needs to be posted on every page apparently.



Again, great post Angelus.

Nice post, but the tl;dr is fucking stupid. You don't get to police the thread topic especially when you are trying to remove the fucking content of the opening post from the discussion.

:/

Edit: While I get the frustration leading to lashing out bit, it doesn't excuse bullshit like telling people not to have certain fucking hair styles. There is no excuse for that sort of bullshit. Just as there is no excuse for the situation that minorities find themselves in. I will not excuse either.

 

[Winterfang]

It seems like you are arguing against an imaginary person or position. The thread is no longer really about the girl anymore.

If the purpose of the thread was derailed, shouldn't it be closed?

 

[CrocMother]

Twitter is like a giant sink hole in our society, sucking time, energy and thought.

To spend so much time thinking and arguing about things like this is a mistake.

 

[royalan]

Nice post, but the tl;dr is fucking stupid. You don't get to police the thread topic especially when you are trying to remove the fucking content of the opening post from the discussion.

:/

The person he wrote that post in response to was questioning why black women would even be angry at all about hair and the whole idea of cultural appropriation. He was explaining why this goes waaaaaaay beyond the girl's hair. He wasn't policing the thread.

 

[ISOM]

If the purpose of the thread was derailed, shouldn't it be closed?

That would be best honestly. The discussion constantly gets re upped because people don't feel like reading through the thread.

 

[Dead Man]

The person he wrote that post in response to was questioning why black women would even be angry at all about hair and the whole idea of cultural appropriation. He was explaining why this goes waaaaaaay beyond the girl's hair. He wasn't policing the thread.

Yes he was. Telling people the discussion is not about the girl in the OP is policing the discussion.

Edit: And if the context matters so much, why do you think it needs to be on every page?

 

[The Faceless Master]

Nice post, but the tl;dr is fucking stupid. You don't get to police the thread topic especially when you are trying to remove the fucking content of the opening post from the discussion.

:/

there is no actual discussion about the OP though.

there are people discussing why there is such a reaction....

and then there are some kawaii desu weirdos arguing against an invisible army of people who somewhere somehow support something.

 

[Dead Man]

there is no actual discussion about the OP though.

there are people discussing why there is such a reaction....

and then there are some kawaii desu weirdos arguing against an invisible army of people who somewhere somehow support something.

Meh. I saw plenty of discussion. Love the part of these threads where people get to tell other people what the thread is about.

 

[BearFlexington]

I missed the "attack." Oh, you mean the stupid tweets?

 

[The Faceless Master]

If the purpose of the thread was derailed, shouldn't it be closed?

what was the thread about? the girl? the hair? the reactions?

 

[royalan]

Yes he was. Telling people the discussion is not about the girl in the OP is policing the discussion.

Edit: And if the context matters so much, why do you think it needs to be on every page?

No it isn't. It's explaining perspective. Angelus wasn't literally saying that this discussion is not about the girl in the OP; he was explaining that to even begin to understand the anger black women have over hair, and the posts sympathizing with them, you have to understand that this goes beyond this one white girl getting box braids.

He was trying to get people to understand that this girl touched on a issue that is actually a huge deal in the black community and much, much bigger than just her getting box braids. This anger comes from a place, and it's not even really her...but again, that was part of his explanation if you actually read the entire post and didn't just skip to the tl;dr.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Meh. I saw plenty of discussion. Love the part of these threads where people get to tell other people what the thread is about.

man, i can't believe DICE is forcing us to play RUSH mode in BF4 to unlock a completely different mode in the HARDLINE Beta!

 

[Black-Wind]

And again, I'm not talking about the little girl anymore, she can shave her head for all I care. I'm speaking WHY people complain about cultural appropriation. The answer while obvious to me is apparently lost on many people in this thread, as they write about these fictious utopias in which all groups are treated equal and complaining about cultural appropriation is stupid.

The MAIN reason any group ever complains about culture appropriation is because that group feels oppressed. If people want minority groups to stop crying about cultural appropriation the answer is simple. Stop being complacent on how America treats minority groups. If said groups were treated nearly as well as so many people's utopic visions...I doubt this thread would even exist.

The little girl did nothing wrong, the argument of hair being exclusive to one group is dumb. Now divorcing ourselves from this little girl, I'm going to explain to people why some people draw issues with something as insignificant as hairstyles. In America the metric standard of beauty has and still is straight luscious hair. It's the standard that all women are measured at. This is doubly damining toward black females as straight hair is not the natural state of black female hair. The various methods to achieve said hair is scarring and expensive. Every day that idea is reinforced to black women by TV, Music, movies, photos and all other avenues. They're often told their natural hair is "ugly and unkempt", "nappy headed" and that they would look better if they straightened it.

Many black women started embracing hair styles more suitable to their hair, and again are greeted with the same negative attitudes towards it. And for just as long as these women have been ridiculed for their hairstyles; magazines and other avenues pour on accolades when the fairer skinned females do the same thing (Bo Derek as an exampled was lauded for it and many found the style refreshing and new, despite the fact at the same time many establishments and news/media were flat out calling black women who had this hairstyle "ghetto" or "unattractive". Or a better example would be Kylie Jenner or whatever her name is when she rocked half braids or whatever and Vogue or whoever stated it was "brand new, bold, and innovative hair style" rightfully black people, females especially were upset with the statements and the magazine and much less Kylie, in fact most people gave two fucks about Kylie herself and drew issue with the magazine perpetuating the idea that white is right and black is wack.

Or a better example check out that NeoGAF thread on Lupita's hair style, many suggesting she grow it out and straigten it, and many more saying she looks like a boy and her hairstyle is ugly. That is what black women face, that is what America says to black women and their natural hair. Or check the NeoGAF thread about the young African American girl who was expelled from her school for keeping her hair natural and the school telling her to straighten it.

The issue shouldn't be with this little girl, the issue should be and is with how American media views the two groups when they do the same thing and the effect it has on members of each group in how they perceive themselves and how they perceive themselves relative to the other group. Much like you and others don't want people judging this little girl for simply doing box braids, the same needs to be applied to these twitter users. They're not representatives of black culture, yet too many people in here are making damning statements about the culture because of what a few bumfucks stated on NeoGAF and that irony is lost on these posters.

Or to make it relatable to anyone with a drop of empathy. Imagine have two sons/daughters; and they both do the same thing. You constantly praise one for it and insult/demean the other for doing the same thing...what is the expected outcome? How do you think it'll affect how they view not only his/herself and you but also the sibling who has done absolutely nothing wrong. Then you have the mother who doesn't care that this is happening. Obviously in my analogy the sibling in question would most likely realize that father is an asshole and would probably try to shine light on their sibling. This too is done in our society you see those people all the time throughout history, whites who rallied with MLK and did the million man march, those who take part in the #BlackLivesMatter movement. You also have the equivalents of mothers in our society, you know these as the "I don't see race" or "It's not happening to me so who cares" type people. And much like in society, mom and dad's voice and influence is so much more powerful than your siblings and will mark you much more deeply.

At this point, most of us aren't talking about the little girl anymore and we're now talking about American society at large (tends to happen with these threads). We've already had a number of people with the usual "Cultural appropriation is stupid because here is my utopia dream of how we treat each other in the US". and other such nonsense that really should be dismissed but we can't help but respond to such nonsense.

Again, divorce yourself from the little girl because it's no longer about her. I'm no longer talking about her, she is an anchor to none of my posts anymore. She doesn't speak for America at large much like any one black person doesn't speak for African Americans at large.

The girl can do with what she wants with her hair, no one should draw issue with that. People should redirect their anger to the massive cog that is American news, media, employment and how they they view and treat the different groups of people when they do the same thing. It is because of that different treatment that we have the cries of cultural appropriation.

A few posters have made the suggestion that blacks are segregating themselves and that they should be trying to assimilate and this is the best way...these people (bless their hearts) clearly speak from a place of either privilege (trigger word!) or ignorance (double trigger!). Black people have been trying to "assimilate" since they were brought here. Blacks are simply responding to the segregation being afflicted upon them, in order for blacks to segregate themselves you have to put forward the argument that segregation has ended....it really hasn't. Segregation ends when racism ends and racism in this country is far from over.

It was called white flight not black flight, black people have been trying to assimilate for fucking ages, too bad the majority group by large doesn't want said assimilation and passes law after law to disenfranchise, imprison and generally keep blacks in a fucked state out of hatred, fear and stupidity, and what's worse is that so many Americans are completely fine with it, and others even blame black people saying things like "earn it first". Black people have "earned" equality 600x over.

I went on a craaaazy bit of tagents but meh.

TL;DR - No one is talking about the little girl at this point, divorce yourself from her.

Lovely post.

 

[Dead Man]

No it isn't. It's explaining perspective. Angelus wasn't literally saying that this discussion is not about the girl in the OP; he was explaining that to even begin to understand the anger black women have over hair, and the posts sympathizing with them, you have to understand that this goes beyond this one white girl getting box braids.

He was trying to get people to understand that this girl touched on a issue that is actually a huge deal in the black community and much, much bigger than just her getting box braids. This anger comes from a place, and it's not even really her...but again, that was part of his explanation if you actually read the entire post and didn't just skip to the tl;dr.

I did read the post. I sued the tl;dr as a summary. The girl touched on no issue. She got her hair done. People then bullied her about he hair and then some people explained why hair styles can upset people, but some of them come too close to excusing bullying to me. If a person is getting bullied that does not need contextualising or excusing. It may need explaining, but only to prevent other instances of bullying, not to excuse the bullying itself. But yeah, I am joining late in the discussion, and I'm going to bugger off now unless anybody has a pressing direct question that they want responded too.

man, i can't believe DICE is forcing us to play RUSH mode in BF4 to unlock a completely different mode in the HARDLINE Beta!

If that was the subject of the OP you would have a bloody good point. As it is you got a smile out of me.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I did read the post. I sued the tl;dr as a summary. The girl touched on no issue. She got her hair done. People then bullied her about he hair and then some people explained why hair styles can upset people, but some of them come too close to excusing bullying to me. If a person is getting bullied that does not need contextualising or excusing. It may need explaining, but only to prevent other instances of bullying, not to excuse the bullying itself. But yeah, I am joining late in the discussion, and I'm going to bugger off now unless anybody has a pressing direct question that they want responded too.

If that was the subject of the OP you would have a bloody good point. As it is you got a smile out of me.

you should quote those people and respond to them. you know, the ones excusing the bullying. oh wait, or are you saying that explaining the bullying should ONLY be done to prevent other instances of bullying but not to ... explain the bullying, contextualize it and discus why that kind of reaction happens at all? are you trying to police the discussion?

hands up, don't shoot!

 

[royalan]

I did read the post. I sued the tl;dr as a summary. The girl touched on no issue. She got her hair done. People then bullied her about he hair and then some people explained why hair styles can upset people, but some of them come too close to excusing bullying to me. If a person is getting bullied that does not need contextualising or excusing. It may need explaining, but only to prevent other instances of bullying, not to excuse the bullying itself. But yeah, I am joining late in the discussion, and I'm going to bugger off now unless anybody has a pressing direct question that they want responded too.

If that was the subject of the OP you would have a bloody good point. As it is you got a smile out of me.

The bold is absolutely wrong. Bullying can be contextualized without excusing the behavior (Angelus even says in the post that he thinks the tweets are dumb and that the idea that a white person shouldn't get braids is dumb). But contextualizing the bullying is good for understanding the anger, which tends to lead people to being more understanding and empathetic when it comes to different cultures.

His post was aimed at the posters in this thread who honestly didn't even understand WHY black people would be upset about hair at all, as if there's no reason to be.

 

[rexor0717]

This needs to be posted on every page apparently.



Again, great post Angelus.

Not to quote the whole post, but I reaaally agree with whats being said in this. All my issues with cultural appropriation come from people directing the negativity towards the people doing the "appropriation" and not those who are actually promoting it.

 

[Dead Man]

you should quote those people and respond to them. you know, the ones excusing the bullying. oh wait, or are you saying that explaining the bullying should ONLY be done to prevent other instances of bullying but not to ... explain the bullying, contextualize it and discus why that kind of reaction happens at all? are you trying to police the discussion?

hands up, don't shoot!

Fucking pathetic. Utterly fucking pathetic. I hate how some people do that, if you disagree, throw racism in their face. Weakest fucking shit I have seen. Trotting out the racism accusations and apparently claiming to be a fucking mind reader and ascribing motivation to me as well. Just fucking pathetic.

Fuck this, I'm out of the thread.

 

[sir_kevith]

I don't understand that, at all.

Well for a black woman's hair the braids also serve a function that they don't necessarily serve for most white girl's hair. The process to get it done right is long and painful from what I understand, but they go through with it because it will save them time later on, its natural and doesn't require harsh chemicals to achieve, and it's a unique good look.

The only real way I can relate is fake fashionable glasses. To me, glasses serve a function to deal with genuine vision impairment. To some, they just consider glasses another fashion accessory. Why go through the trouble if you don't need it? I guess it depends on how you view the world but I could see some getting frustrated.

 

[Skyzard]

I'm open to hearing about the frustrations with hair management and beauty/professional acceptance with racial divides but the OP is about it being misdirected at the girl.

Dead Man rightly had an issue with people encouraging others not to comment on it.

 

[royalan]

Fucking pathetic. Utterly fucking pathetic. I hate how some people do that, if you disagree, throw racism in their face. Weakest fucking shit I have seen. Trotting out the racism accusations and apparently claiming to be a fucking mind reader and ascribing motivation to me as well. Just fucking pathetic.

Fuck this, I'm out of the thread.

LOL - wut?

Nowhere in that post did he call you a racist. He accused you of attempting to police the thread without even realizing it. A valid observation, considering your criticism of Angelus' post.

I'm open to hearing about the frustrations with hair management and beauty/professional acceptance with racial divides but the OP is about it being misdirected at the girl.

Dead Man rightly had an issue with people encouraging others not to comment on it.

...only nobody is doing that.

 

[Enzom21]

Fucking pathetic. Utterly fucking pathetic. I hate how some people do that, if you disagree, throw racism in their face. Weakest fucking shit I have seen. Trotting out the racism accusations and apparently claiming to be a fucking mind reader and ascribing motivation to me as well. Just fucking pathetic.

Fuck this, I'm out of the thread.

He didn't accuse you of racism... he pointed out that you were doing exactly what you were complaining about.

Edit: I am genuinely curious about what part of his post mentioned you being racist, because I don't see it at all. But you had your little temper tantrum and I guess you're not coming back.

 

[Winterfang]

LOL - wut?

Nowhere in that post did he call you a racist. He accused you of attempting to police the thread without even realizing it. A valid observation, considering your criticism of Angelus' post.

.

It might be a stretch but maybe is the line, ''Hands up don't shoot''. But it seems more like a play on words from the "police the thread'' part

only nobody is doing that...

There's being said a couple of times that the thread isn't no longer about the girl.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Fucking pathetic. Utterly fucking pathetic. I hate how some people do that, if you disagree, throw racism in their face. Weakest fucking shit I have seen. Trotting out the racism accusations and apparently claiming to be a fucking mind reader and ascribing motivation to me as well. Just fucking pathetic.

Fuck this, I'm out of the thread.

bye Felicia.

 

[ISOM]

I'm open to hearing about the frustrations with hair management and beauty/professional acceptance with racial divides but the OP is about it being misdirected at the girl.

Dead Man rightly had an issue with people encouraging others not to comment on it.

No one is saying not to comment on it. If people read through the thread the discussion has moved from disgust and outrage by everyone to this action of bullying to now the reasoning behind it in the first place. The only people who are left discussing this topic in this thread have already talked about the injustices this girl received ad nauseum. That's why people are trying to tell new posters who enter the thread that the discussion has moved past the outrage because it seems like every page a new poster has to get their opinion in and the discussion has to start all over again. It's a damn feedback loop.

 

[royalan]

It might be a stretch but maybe is the line, ''Hands up don't shoot''. But it seems more like a play on words from the "police the thread'' part



There's being said a couple of times that the thread isn't no longer about the girl.

Well yeah, but that's because the general discussion has shifted. This happens in most threads that get this big.

But nobody (at least in any post I've read) is literally saying "stop talking about the girl!" or bashing others for commenting on the girl. Just that the general discussion has evolved into including issues that existed before this one girl got box braids.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I'm open to hearing about the frustrations with hair management and beauty/professional acceptance with racial divides but the OP is about it being misdirected at the girl.

Dead Man rightly had an issue with people encouraging others not to comment on it.

people were commenting on it by throwing blame at people defending something, but none of those posts from various posters ever seemed to actually quote people defending etc... what kind of discussion are these people having arguing with air?

maybe they read the OP, saw it was a big thread and just assumed some people were actively defending or something? maybe they just get kicks out of no-quote responding to nobody? i dunno.

notice the direct challenge to this was the only part of the quote in my post was the only part that went unbolded and unreplied to when Dead Man left his exit post?

 

[Winterfang]

Well yeah, but that's because the general discussion has shifted. This happens in most threads that get this big.

But nobody (at least in any post I've read) is literally saying "stop talking about the girl!" or bashing others for commenting on the girl. Just that the general discussion has evolved into including issues that existed before this one girl got box braids.

Well yeah, what I think he might imply is that when ask people if it's ok to bully the girl. People say the thread isn't about the girl, as if tryi....

It's a damn feedback loop.

Pretty much. The topic is going in circles.

 

[GYODX]

I don't understand that, at all.

See, the issue for me then is differentiating how much of it is genuine outrage stemming from the reasons that have been outlined in the past couple of pages, and how much of it is just social media bandwagoning. People who saw others making a big deal out of the issue, then thought to themselves "You know what... I've never really thought about it, but now that you mention it, I SHOULD be outraged!".

Also, I don't necessarily think anyone should be obligated or expected to change their (what I still believe to be) harmless behavior just because it rubs some people the wrong way―regardless of whether those gripes are legitimate or not.

I know the discussion has shifted away from this girl's particular case, and that everyone agrees she didn't deserve to have abuse hurled her way, but I'd still like to ask whether some of you truly believe she is in any way obligated to change her hair style? And would her still choosing to do her own thing―even after being informed of how her behavior is offensive to some people―make her a bad, immoral or insensitive person in any way? Actually, let's generalize and make the question about white people with traditionally black hairstyles in general. To what extent does someone's insistence on individuality make them an insensitive person?

 

[Skyzard]

Some people like to comment about the OP even when there are other nuanced discussions.

Don't see the big deal in leaving those posts be and carrying on. I do see an issue in telling people not to bring it up again without giving a reason why other than it's not what I'm trying to talk about.


You can be angry at people if you think they're not caring to ask why but shaming people with "we've moved on" isn't right, surely people can start talking about what they want whenever.

 

[terrene]

Good on this girl for listening to the complaints and treating them with respect, unlike, say a bunch of people on a video game forum.

Or people on Twitter who feel like it's okay to call a 13 year old girl "mayo"

 

[The Faceless Master]

Some people like to comment about the OP even when there are other nuanced discussions.

Don't see the big deal in leaving those posts be and carrying on. I do see an issue in telling people not to bring it up again without giving a reason why other than it's not what I'm trying to talk about.

you don't see an issue in driveby shitposts that aren't following the current discussion, but you do see an issue with people pointing this out to the shitposters? oooookkkkk!

 

[diamount]

snip/

Her behaviour is considered offensive? Your post is nearing on victim blaming, buddy.

 

[royalan]

I know the discussion has shifted away from this girl's particular case, and that everyone agree she didn't deserve to have abuse hurled her way, but I'd still like to ask whether some of you truly believe she is in any way obligated to change her hair style? And would her still choosing to do her own thing―even after being informed of how her behavior is offensive to some people―make her a bad, immoral or insensitive person in any way? Actually, let's generalize and make the question about white people with traditionally black hairstyles in general. To what extent does someone's insistence on individuality make them an insensitive person?

I don't think the girl is under any real obligation to change her hairstyle, just as Gwen Stefani wasn't under any real obligation to stop touring with 4 Japanese dancers that she had dress up as exaggerated harajuku girls:

I think the point is understanding the issues behind why this might upset some people. Because, ultimately, if you're going to borrow from a culture, it would be nice if you made some effort to understand it. That's not a requirement, but it sure would be nice.

 

[The Faceless Master]

See, the issue for me then is differentiating how much of it is genuine outrage stemming from the reasons that have been outlined in the past couple of pages, and how much of it is just social media bandwagoning. People who saw others making a big deal out of the issue, then thought to themselves "You know what... I've never really thought about it, but now that you mention it, I SHOULD be outraged!".

Also, I don't necessarily think anyone should be obligated or expected to change their (what I still believe to be) harmless behavior just because it rubs some people the wrong way―regardless of whether those gripes are legitimate or not.

I know the discussion has shifted away from this girl's particular case, and that everyone agree she didn't deserve to have abuse hurled her way, but I'd still like to ask whether some of you truly believe she is in any way obligated to change her hair style? And would her still choosing to do her own thing―even after being informed of how her behavior is offensive to some people―make her a bad, immoral or insensitive person in any way? Actually, let's generalize and make the question about white people with traditionally black hairstyles in general. To what extent does someone's insistence on individuality make them an insensitive person?

i know it when i see it. for example, blackface!

this girl was fine. her hairstylist wasn't too good at braiding though...

 

[Skyzard]

you don't see an issue in driveby shitposts that aren't following the current discussion, but you do see an issue with people pointing this out to the shitposters? oooookkkkk!

I never mentioned driveby shitposts, just people talking about the anger at the girl and not why there is anger at the girl.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I never mentioned driveby shitposts, just people talking about the anger at the girl and not why there is anger at the girl.

you should quote examples!

 

[roosters93]

you don't see an issue in driveby shitposts that aren't following the current discussion, but you do see an issue with people pointing this out to the shitposters? oooookkkkk!

why do you so blatantly misrepresent the post you're quoting? It seems weird to me to engage in such an activity (maybe just for your own amusement?) when the stark difference is right there.

 

[diamount]

I don't think the girl is under any real obligation to change her hairstyle, just as Gwen Stefani wasn't under any real obligation to stop touring with 4 Japanese dancers that she had dress up as exaggerated harajuku girls:

I think the point is understanding the issues behind why this might upset some people. Because, ultimately, if you're going to borrow from a culture, it would be nice if you made some effort to understand it. That's not a requirement, but it sure would be nice.

Oh, it's not a requirement? I'm so happy you gave the girl permission to 'borrow' a hairstyle from a culture. Don't be ridiculous.

 

[terrene]

I know the discussion has shifted away from this girl's particular case, and that everyone agree she didn't deserve to have abuse hurled her way, but I'd still like to ask whether some of you truly believe she is in any way obligated to change her hair style? And would her still choosing to do her own thing―even after being informed of how her behavior is offensive to some people―make her a bad, immoral or insensitive person in any way? Actually, let's generalize and make the question about white people with traditionally black hairstyles in general. To what extent does someone's insistence on individuality make them an insensitive person?

I think a lot of it is case-by-case really. Culture is something that seeps into you by living as part of it -- so if you are living in an area with a strong black culture even though you were born white, I think -- without meaning anything by it -- you would just start liking those styles more, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think what people complain about isn't that kind of cross-germination.

Appropriation is more cynical. It's adopting a culture for personal gain. The white suburban kid who lives in a McMansion who wears their bill to the side, bumps subwoofers at insane volumes in the Jetta that daddy bought him, and calls people "bitch" unironically, in a pathetic display of mimicked black masculinity -- all done in an attempt to transfer the fear people have of black men onto themselves, because that's useful in being scary and tough, without ever having to also carry the baggage that comes with that -- profiling, distrust, etc. You can object to this kind of thing on the grounds that it's phony as hell. It's bandwagon jumping -- people who like rap deciding that, from within the confines of their bedroom on the second floor of their huge house in suburban prefab neighborhood, with a window overlooking a fresh-cut lawn and a Mercedes SUV parked in the driveway, it is they who are really to speak to others about the black experience. Fuck 'em, I'm not going to go to bat and pontificate about cultural transference on behalf of those poser assholes.

I think that this story is notable because people made a mistake judging this girl as the latter. But there is definitely a time to call out people who really are that way, even though I do think on the whole it's good to give people the benefit of the doubt and let them respectfully express their heartfelt influence from cultures other than their own.

 

[Skyzard]

you should quote examples!

This is probably the best one. It's egged on later and implied in a previous posts by others. Even the tl;dr as mentioned before.

 

[royalan]

Oh, it's not a requirement? I'm so happy you gave the girl permission to 'borrow' a hairstyle from a culture. Don't be ridiculous.

What are you even talking about? That was in response to a QUESTION about whether or not a white girl is allowed to get braids. Stop.