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[Vanillalite]

Android L and Windows 10 are being released this year and they support HEVC.

Not to be picky, but Android L released last year.

 

[Alpende]

To fully profit from 4k is to have it play on a 4k TV right? Seeing as those are still expensive as he'll, I don't really care of they'd release a new version with 4k.

 

[Deft Beck]

There is not much 4K content available, and the compatible televisions are still expensive.

I doubt this.

 

[schaft0620]

Both devices could use an upgrade on the 802.11 standard as well as a stronger WLAN card. The PS4 could use a 2TB HDD and color options.

After treading this, I immediately jumped up and said to myself of crap! I am going to have to buy a new PS4....then I realized, I don't even have a 4K TV.

 

[SneakyStephan]

The PS4 supports 4K menus and video content iirc. Just not games.

Edit: quote

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/playstation-4-wont-support-4k-games-3d-not-a-focus

Seems it supports 4k video just not 4k DRM (if I read the OP right)

 

[Inuhanyou]

Seems it supports 4k video just not 4k DRM (if I read the OP right)

Correct. 1.4 HDMI supports 4k 30fps signals. But the encryption is something those ports dont support. And was not possible to implement at the time of the original launch

 

[ayob]

ps4 with 4k support and wireless AC and 1tb HDD incoming this holiday for $399!

 

[Lagamorph]

I wouldn't be surprised to see models capable of playing 4K Blu-Ray discs. I don't think the current models will be able to will they?

 

[rokkerkory]

I hope this gen lasts only 5-6 years. Console h/w is so out of date already. sigh

 

[Iacobellis]

Hmmmm maybe that leaked ps4 hardware revision wasn't a hardware revision at all of the ps4 itself, just an add on to play 4K? ala the hdd of the ps2? Just a complete wild guess of course.

Are we really going back to those days?

 

[Mindwipe]

The major studios content protection aims for 4K video are public already - they're here http://www.movielabs.com/ngvideo/index.html

So people can confirm for themselves the sort of things that are required.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I hope this gen lasts only 5-6 years. Console h/w is so out of date already. sigh

What does this have to do with anything? It would have been impossible to have content protection of HDMI 1.4 voided in 2013, it has nothing to do with the power of the console

 

[spwolf]

makes little sense though - If you have 4K TV, you likely have one that supports Netflix already. Why in the world would you want to watch it vis PS4 or XB1?

I am sure it will be added through some hardware revision, but it is really not something important. New 4K tvs have optimized Netflix experience that let them launch Netflix app and watch shows in seconds.

 

[SFenton]

More than anything, I just want to see my bandwidth if/when I stream 4K.

 

[TEH-CJ]

Wow......this could be amazing news for me. Does this mean my input lag on 4k tv will improved with the PS4? am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Theonik]

You ISP is throttling you/Netflix, when I watched Netflix at 4K it averaged 35Mbps in House of Cards, 1080p maxes out at around 20Mbps (Blu-Ray quality). Then again I have business tier 1Gbps fiber.

Bluray is up to 40mbps for 1x disks. Later disks might require faster drives and go a bit higher than that.

 

[HarryKS]

Is 4K streaming any good? Quality wise?

Because 1080p streaming isn't even as good as Blu-Ray :/

It's on par with a blu-ray. In some instances it looks dazzlingly sharp on my samsung 4k.


Which begs the question as to why you would use a console to stream 4k content. If your tv can display 2160p, it's almosy certain that it supports a native netflix app.

 

[Darknight]

Would expect a small internal revision for the PS4. Massive overhaul for the XB1.

What does MS need to do with Xbone to make it be able to play 4K video? Cant they just change the HDMI thing like Sony?

 

[e1sunz]

Wow......this could be amazing news for me. Does this mean my input lag on 4k tv will improved with the PS4? am I understanding this correctly?

Go TV settings and turn on 'Game mode' or something similar, turn off picture enhancements etc

 

[Mit-]

Wow......this could be amazing news for me. Does this mean my input lag on 4k tv will improved with the PS4? am I understanding this correctly?

No.


Netflix and Amazon's 4K playback makes use of newer HDMI features and content protection. Old HDMI is capable of playing back forms of 4K content, but not the newer stuff Amazon and Netflix are using.

New console revisions will probably have newer HDMI ports and content protection support for obvious, now feasible reasons.

I hate the title of this thread :|

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Most channels in the US are not even being broadcasted in 1080p

 

[DOWN]

Sony said PS4 can do 4K video. Where's this confusion from?

 

[FLEABttn]

Most channels in the US are not even being broadcasted in 1080p

No channels in the US are broadcast in 1080p.

 

[dr_rus]

Cool. And when is 4K content coming?

 

[jeff_rigby]

I posted a comment to the John Archer Forbes article in the OP, what I essentially have posted here and I got a reply from him time stamped 5 min after my post so he is reading all the comments: "John Archer posted a new comment on New 4K-Capable PS4 And Xbox One Consoles Coming This Year, Predicts Netflix"

" Superb comment, Jeff. Especially as it offers some potential explanations for why it's taking consoles so long to get their 4K streaming act..".

My comment here:

I don't think a hardware revision is needed. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916219

Kaveri has support for a software based with Xtensa processor accelerators HEVC codec. It does not need to use GPU shaders for post processing. Both the XB1 and PS4 have the same Xtensa DPUs for TrueAudio and video processing like up-scaling and AA. If you look at the published file and compression/decompression formats supported by the XB1's DLNA, no hardware encoder/decoder can support all those standards...only a software based with accelerators can support all of them.

HDCP and HDMI are both moving to 2.XX standards. HDCP can also be Xtensa DPU and software based and a HDMI 1.4 port only needs to support a faster clock to support HDMI 2.0 and 4K @ 60 HZ. The 4K blu-ray drive standard is a Quad Blu-ray drive which the PS4 is rumored to have. I.E. the PS4 and XB1 do not need any hardware revisions.

What they are waiting on is the Standard and Media. Windows 10 has support for the HEVC codec which AMD's Kaveri and Carrizio support at low power levels not needing the GPU active. Android L supports HEVC and in some of the Handheld Chipsets also uses Xtensa DPUs.

When Microsoft and Sony firmware update their consoles to support HEVC the APIs will be published to Netflix and IPTV Low Power apps can use them. When that happens then Netflix for example, will stop using the X-86 APU and Suspend Resume will be implemented.

June 2015 the FCC has mandated that all Cable company DVRs must support Vidipath (DLNA CVP2), Sony is rumored to have DLNA support done by the end of Q1 2015, Windows 10 is rumored by the end of Q2 2015 (june). Sony firmware update schedule http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=149643023&postcount=51

Game Consoles to replace Cable boxes and the connected home starts in 2015 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=742588

**This is a 2010 Sony white paper that was presented to the ATSC committee on what would become Sony Media fusion.** Features in it should become part of Playstation Vue to 1080P and 4K TVs using the HEVC codec. The PS4 is designed to support this. http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...netflix ps4?&txt=<u>2010</u> Sony white paper "

 

[jeff_rigby]

No channels in the US are broadcast in 1080p.

1) First comes the DVD player using Mpeg2
2) Then ATSC 1.0 that supports 480i, 480P, 720P and 1080i using the Mpeg2 DVD codec

3) Then comes Blu-ray on the PS3 using AVCHD (h.264) about 2006 that supports 1080P and by 2010 S3D 1080P
4) Then comes IPTV Netflix October 2010 on the PS3 using h.264 PS3 also gets Javascript support
5) Then comes ATSC 2.0 (2014 candidate status which means it can be used) using the blu-ray codec to support 1080P and S3D as well as XTV.
6) The PS3 should have implemented a WebGL XMB but openGL uses both the CPU and GPU and can be hacked

7) PS4 Has a full browser with a WebGL desktop to support XTV and browser anywhere. openGL is secure or rather ARM Trustzone insures security
8) Now comes the PS4 with 4K blu-ray using HEVC 2015
9) Next comes IPTV using HEVC 4K, Sony Media Fusion and 1080P "tunneling"
10) Next comes ATSC 3.0 using HEVC 2020 supporting the same XTV as ATSC 2.0

Notice a pattern?

 

[Samurai G0SU]

both consoles are capable for 4K output, the article this thread is about is referring to steaming services like Netflix requiring hardware that the consoles don't have.

so for example in the future* you could take a video file you shoot on your 4K video camera, load it on your PS4 and watch it on your 4K TV, but you won't be able to use Netflix to watch 4K movies/TV.

*while the consoles can theoretically output 4K, they currently are not set up in software to allow this. This could be fixed with a firmware update, but the Netflix issue would require new hardware

Thank you, that makes sense to me now.

 

[expletive]

Seems likely to be a legit requirement. 6 months ago, the only HDCP 2.2-capable chip available was limited to 4:2:0 colour space. Lots of vendors were waiting for a HDCP 2.2 chip that supported 4:4:4 before updating/releasing their products. I'm not sure if such chips are available yet, but it seems like they're on the horizon now, considering this rumour.
Any new XB or PS SKU will likely need to contain a chip like this.

I think you're referring to HDMI. Current HDMI chips only allow ~10Gb/s but the final chips will use ~18Gb/s and support the color depths/framerate/resolutions you're thinking of.

 

[Collateral22]

This would only be for 4k streaming right? No way any game is going to be displayed in 4k by the end of this gen with the 1080 struggle now.

 

[mrklaw]

I thought that HDCP2.2 isn't supported by most current 4K sets, yet you can get netflix 4k on some of those, and they also have their own 4k delivery systems.

Sounds like bollocks to me. Both PS4 and Xbox may need a firmware update to support 4k, and there might be limitations to 4k/30 if using current HDMI, but I would think both could support netflix 4k for now, updating to HDCP2.2 when it is more widely available.

I can't imagine Netflix not supporting the consoles, they'll want their service available as widely as possible and to get as much traction as they can before 4k bluray arrives (sorry, UHD bluray)

 

[mrklaw]

makes little sense though - If you have 4K TV, you likely have one that supports Netflix already. Why in the world would you want to watch it vis PS4 or XB1?

I am sure it will be added through some hardware revision, but it is really not something important. New 4K tvs have optimized Netflix experience that let them launch Netflix app and watch shows in seconds.

this is a fantastic point.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

4k tv's aren't that expensive anymore, unless you want to the get a Samsung or Sony. Vizio has a 4k TV 55inches for $999. My father in law has one and it's a decent tv

 

[Theonik]

This would only be for 4k streaming right? No way any game is going to be displayed in 4k by the end of this gen with the 1080 struggle now.

No reason why games can't hit 4K for PS4 at least. It's a question of how much you want to compromise to hit that.

 

[Beer Monkey]

And yet the 4K streams show more compression artifacts than a good Blu-Ray.

 

[nhlducks35]

The fact that Sony already has a 4K media player and a ton of 4K movies that don't work on the PS4 makes no sense to me

Leverage that shit

 

[riflen]

I think you're referring to HDMI. Current HDMI chips only allow ~10Gb/s but the final chips will use ~18Gb/s and support the color depths/framerate/resolutions you're thinking of.

Yes, my post was made in reference to HDMI chips that are HDCP 2.2 compliant.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I thought that HDCP2.2 isn't supported by most current 4K sets, yet you can get netflix 4k on some of those, and they also have their own 4k delivery systems.

Sounds like bollocks to me. Both PS4 and Xbox may need a firmware update to support 4k, and there might be limitations to 4k/30 if using current HDMI, but I would think both could support netflix 4k for now, updating to HDCP2.2 when it is more widely available.

I can't imagine Netflix not supporting the consoles, they'll want their service available as widely as possible and to get as much traction as they can before 4k bluray arrives (sorry, UHD bluray)

The HDMI chip in the PS4 is custom made for Sony and not listed in the Panasonic website. Normally HDCP 1.0 occurs inside the HDMI chip and there are no Panasonic HDMI chips with HDCP 2.2.

HDMI 2.0 besides nearly double the data rate from HDMI 1.4 has requirments from content providers for from source to sink encryption and requires HDCP 2.2 with provisions for firmware updating the HDCP. They also want a hidden watermarking. HDCP and watermarking with the PS4 Mac number can be accomplished in the PS4 southbridge where the Mac number is also likely stored. This also supports a from souce to sink encryption were the media is never exposed in an unencrypted form. It comes into the Souhbridge as a Playready encrypted stream and exists Southbridge as a HDCP 1.0 or 2.X encrypted stream with watermark.

HDMI 2.0 has an expanded CEC with tighter standards which is also just a firmware issue.

So if Sony wanted to support HDMI 2.0 they would need a faster clock and a simpler custom HDMI chip with provisions to allow the Southbridge to handle HDCP.

Edit: One final point, Sony is not going to allow their media to be streamed @ 4k even at 24Hz on a HDMI 1.4 port with HDCP 1.0 as it's been hacked. So millions of PS4s and nearly that many XB1s that won't support 4K...I don't think so.

 

[Akzel]

4K? They are barely able to make 1080p a standard on both platforms

Spoiler

At least on Xbox ONE

 

[MaulerX]

4K? They are barely able to make 1080p a standard on both platforms

Spoiler

At least on Xbox ONE

We're not talking about rendering games natively in 4K.... This is about video playback.

 

[Alchemy]

So same exact hardware, but with HDCP 2.2 support for 4k Netflix/Amazon Instant Video.

That doesn't really seem outrageous.

 

[Massa]

So because of DRM you can't stream 4k content on PS4 or Xbox One, but if you go and get a pirate version you can easily watch that.

The movie industry is just the best.

 

[LoveCake]

There isn't enough 4K content anyway, it is no different to 3D because there isn't enough 3D content either.

 

[TGO]

Doesn't Trine 2 internally run at 4k?
If so 4k games are possible but would be rare.

 

[Jonnax]

I really hope that HDCP doesn't require extra hardware, it would be content providers leaving out around 30 million possible customers.

 

[AU Tiger]

Decision to wait for new console purchase justified... I can wait a little longer.

 

[evilalien]

Doesn't Trine 2 internally run at 4k?
If so 4k games are possible but would be rare.

No, Trine 2 is 1080p60. They claim to be able to hit 4k at 30 fps if Sony were to allow 4k output for games though.

 

[system11]

There's no such thing as 'UHD' 4K streamed media, because streamed media is compressed to hell.

 

[herod]

skipping 4k completely because 8k will be around soon enough and the content is just not there and probably never will be before 8k is the thing

 

[Some Nobody]

This kinda stuff is just going over my head, but I know I just bought a TV in 2013 and I have no intention of upgrading until I can get 4k at the same size (39 in) for comparable prices. By that time, I'm thinking a PS5 will be on the market, which presumably would also be capable of delivering 4k content.

 

[Palette Swap]

It's on par with a blu-ray. In some instances it looks dazzlingly sharp on my samsung 4k.


Which begs the question as to why you would use a console to stream 4k content. If your tv can display 2160p, it's almosy certain that it supports a native netflix app.

Bingo.
From a consumer standpoint, there's very little incentive to replace an already purchased console.

From a larger market perspective, it does make sense to add 4K streaming support through a revision though.