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How can Nintendo win back marketshare with their next home console?

sörine

Banned
I mean, Sony and MS last gen pushed 80 million each in consoles alone. Is 60 million between home and handheld all that impressive? Especially when it comes with over 50% userbase decline? I would call that a bad business plan.
60 milion likely is more than MS will be pushing this gen lifetime and the generation isn't over yet so Nintendo could even end up doing more than what Sony manages. It's also more than Sega, Atari, NEC, Panasonic or any other console maker outside the current 3 have ever pushed in a single gen. Is 60m partway through the generation really that unimpressive?

No one will ever be doing 250m in a single gen again, and no one ever has before. If that's the standard then everyone fails.
 
MK8 isn't coming out on PS4.

We weren't talking about a situation where Nintendo has a home console.. It was a completely theoretical conversation discussing IP on other platforms where (regardless of platform) if the base is huge like the Wii was and consumers don't have to buy 400 dollars worth of hardware outside of what they already own.

The only thing Nintendo does right is make excellent games, that's it. Moving that capability to a larger audience would result in significant sales.

Simply saying Mario on PS4 would sell terribly because it's a Sony platform (or MS) seems asinine to me if Nintendo has no home console.
 

Petrae

Member
That is only proof that the best way for Nintendo to win back marketshare, is for Sony and Microsoft to make a complete mess of it.

It could happen.

Pretty much this.

Perhaps if Sony & MS go online-only for Gen9 and anger consumers, we see a "revolt" of sorts as people go back to Nintendo. But that's a long shot at best.

Instead, as others have said, Nintendo needs to focus on delivering a solid secondary or tertiary console and have realistic sales expectations. Work on retaining loyal customers. Continue to deliver quality first-party software.
 
They already have the marketshare they've always had in the home console space.

Take a look at their trajectory.

Started at the top with NES
Went higher with SNES
Dropped large with the N64
Dropped even more with the GCN
Crazy high with the Wii - outlier
Dropped even more with the WiiU compared to the GCN

Nintendo has been on a steady decline since the SNES. The Wii was a massive abnormality. The N64 is when they started to do weird things and it's never paid off except with the Wii but that wasn't sustainable. They'd better get back to basics with the next console or they'll continue their downward trend.

There's a lot of strange revisionism in the thread regarding Nintendo's position with the SNES.

Nintendo LOST market share with that system, and was beaten head to head by the genesis every year until Sega dropped support in 1994 to support the Saturn and compete with the ps1.

Nearly all of Nintendo's woes can be traced back to that. If not for the tremendous amount of damage Sega did to their brand, Segas success at targeting older demographics and courting third parties, Sony wouldn't have been able to enter the market as easily as they did.
 
I think it's hugely important that the higher ups at Nintendo take an honest look at the company and realize what it is, what it can be, and what it can't be.

In the foreseeable future, Nintendo pretty much has to go it alone with just first-party software. Third parties have given up on Nintendo, and the people still playing Nintendo systems only really want Mario, Zelda, etc. anyway. Throwing money hats at Rockstar, EA, etc. won't change the reality of the situation. That money would be better spent on partnerships, second-party deals that will help fill the calendar with exclusive titles that are more in line with the kinds of games Nintendo fans will buy.

Along those lines, Nintendo isn't able to change its brand perception in the short or even medium term. For better or worse, people have strong, long-standing opinions about the company. Nintendo can't suddenly be "cool" like PlayStation or Xbox, or be known for first-person shooters and sports games after mostly skipping them for more than a decade.

And Nintendo can't compete for casuals at all. Those players are perfectly served with free or almost-free time-wasters on phones, tablets, social media, etc. Maybe the secret QOL thingamajig will be awesome, but Nintendo is done selling game consoles on the back of software like Wii Fit and Brain Training. Core gamers are all they've got a shot at getting.

So, what does Nintendo have left? Almost certainly not enough to "beat" the other guys by selling more systems, but enough, I'd wager, to build a profitable and lasting business. Nintendo is an unparalleled software publisher. They own many of the most valuable, time-tested franchises in gaming, and their titles are generally among the best selling and highest rated. They don't need to dominate Sony and Microsoft, they just need to do what they do well, maximize every opportunity, and cultivate deep, lasting relationships with its customers.

I look at Nintendo like Pixar. Nobody complains that Pixar only makes cute, colorful movies. Nobody says Pixar should also produce war films. Pixar does one thing, but does it better than anybody else. If Nintendo embraced its image and put a positive spin on it (instead of talking big about any year-old third-party port they can beg off of someone), maybe the brand's limited focus on top-quality family content can be seen as a positive instead of a failure.

And Nintendo has to keep innovating, to keep trying to surprise and delight players. Also, I like Iwata's talk about rethinking the business of how games are sold; the structure and pricing. That's the kind of back-to-the-drawling-board brainstorming the industry needs right now. Hopefully they'll also take that next big, essential step into offering universal user accounts.

Last thing: Every console manufacturer needs to drive home the difference between a $60 console game and freemium bullshit. People need to know in their bones that when they settle for free or cheap phone games, they get what they pay for.

Pixar movies don't require a 400 dollar investment. I understand the reasoning here but you'd have to find another example which I don't think exists.

I can't think of any other brand where the company was so arrogant for decades where they lost market share the entire time pissing on other companies that are there to actually help you.

Without actually changing their business model.

I'd even go so far as to say the Wii ultimately did damage to Nintendo more than those huge profit margins provided. The Wii told Nintendo gimmicks, weak hardware, no online, etc can still be profitable. Unfortunately they never do market research and it gave them a false sense of relevance.
 
They should keep the option for gamepad remote play streaming. It's the best feature on the Wii U IMO, and one I use almost daily.

The ability to remote play with the new Nintendo handheld from the console (like PS4 and Vita) would be great.
 
I don't think they will ever get third party sypport back. It us not just making an easy to develop console, they need to assist third party development and provide an accesible online infrarstructure (I doubt Nintendo could mantain a PSN like service without charging any fee.
I think for their next console they need to understand that they won't compete with X1/PS4, instead they will sell a cheap modest console that will stand alongside another, more complete, platform. Their target market should be kids, parents and lifelong fans. Go cheap, deliver good games and moneyhat some AA games. For that they don't need a new WiiU.
 
Go full in with toys. All Amiibos all the time.

The way I look at all of this is that Nintendo is trying more and more things to secure other streams of revenue.

QoL won't require their consoles iirc.

Amiibos wouldn't require Nintendo specific hardware.

Their virtual console doesn't require Nintendo specific hardware.

Their games don't require Nintendo specific platforms.

I dunno I'm looking at this thinking they are obviously thinking long term because it's apparent that their base has shrunk drastically over each generation and they see what's coming in the future. They can't keep releasing consoles when they would only realistically sell less and less consoles.

I'm not saying they go third party but something has to give.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Their entire business model should be an extension of what they're doing with Mario vs Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars. Cross-compatibility and even cross-buy in many cases, between handheld and home consoles but also across generations. This allows them to maintain extreme amounts of momentum with software releases at all times, all available to anybody who owns any Nintendo system.

They also need to get serious about toys, tv shows, and general licensing. No more third-tier manufacturers and brands. They need Mario LEGO sets on the shelves, not Mario K'Nex.
 

Rafterman

Banned
Their entire business model should be an extension of what they're doing with Mario vs Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars. Cross-compatibility and even cross-buy in many cases, between handheld and home consoles but also across generations. This allows them to maintain extreme amounts of momentum with software releases at all times, all available to anybody who owns any Nintendo system.

They also need to get serious about toys, tv shows, and general licensing. No more third-tier manufacturers and brands. They need Mario LEGO sets on the shelves, not Mario K'Nex.

I think you are on the right track, but I'd go further to say they don't need a home console at all. Keep on trucking with the handhelds but instead of a home version they should go third party. They'd still be the leaders in the mobile market and would have software sales like they haven't seen in decades. Nintendo hasn't been a powerhouse in the home console market in over 20 years, there is literally nothing that could make them one again short of everyone else in the market screwing up and making it easy for them. An earlier poster was right, Sega screwed them good and then Sony finished them off and they've never recovered.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
I think you are on the right track, but I'd go further to say they don't need a home console at all. Keep on trucking with the handhelds but instead of a home version they should go third party. They'd still be the leaders in the mobile market and would have software sales like they haven't seen in decades. Nintendo hasn't been a powerhouse in the home console market in over 20 years, there is literally nothing that could make them one again short of everyone else in the market screwing up and making it easy for them. An earlier poster was right, Sega screwed them good and then Sony finished them off and they've never recovered.

Nintendo will put a padlock on the doors of their HQ and shut down for good before they give Sony and Microsoft royalties on Pokemon and Mario sales.
 

entremet

Member
I think it's over for them in the dedicated home console market honestly.

They have dedicated fans, but it's not a huge base in terms of what their investors expect.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
As far as third parties go, the general consensus of the thread is right in that they're not going to be splitting Assassin's Creed XIV sales evenly with the other two consoles, not even close. What they should be doing is an expanded version of their recent strategy: partner up with third parties for games like Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta, Monster Hunter, and Dragon Quest (at least the way they had a lock on the series ~4 years ago) . Also, they should have bought Atlus when they had the chance. That kind of thing, but as I said on a bigger scale.
 
Keep on trucking with the handhelds but instead of a home version they should go third party. They'd still be the leaders in the mobile market and would have software sales like they haven't seen in decades.

You do realize that out of the 10 best sold games ever, the Wii and the DS likely have at the very least half of them, right?

Nintendo kills itself before going third-party.
 
I think it's over for them in the dedicated home console market honestly.

They have dedicated fans, but it's not a huge base in terms of what their investors expect.

Personally at this point starting from scratch with another home console is a strange decision.

Sony is already laying the groundwork for a platform agnostic game network with PSNOW. it's very difficult not to see everything going this way in a generation or two. The ps5 is a sure thing but I wouldn't bet on ps6.

Nintendo should do something similar, leveraging the value of their back catalog as much as possible while this is still blue ocean territory.

Of course, that would require competence, and a basic familiarity with online networks, neither of which have been strong points for Nintendo lately.
 
What Nintendo should've done is investing in western studio to release games that cater to the majority of the western audience at launch of their next console and going hard with the marketing. Then they expand their user base while they don't alienate their existing fans since they will keep releasing the type of games they release now.
 

FLAguy954

Junior Member
Western ones, specifically. They keep banking on random 2nd tier Japanese third party publishers like Koei-Tecmo but they need full Western support if they want to be a strong international force. For example, there's absolutely no reason why their next console shouldn't get the latest GTA games.

This cannot be echoed enough. It's a whynotboth.gif situation where they can have both if they really tried but they keep focusing on their respective 'domestic' developers when video games are global. It gets irritating as fuck.
 

FaintDeftone

Junior Member
Getting third party back on-board.
Stronger, innovative Network features (Miiverse is a step in the right direction).
Ramp up first party production, release more games each year.
A normal, Wii U Pro styled controller as the primary control method.
Modern, competitive hardware specs.

Do that and you're good.
 

kaioshade

Member
Stop refusing basic localizations.
Get third party devs on board
Stop the fucking gimmicks, or at least dont tie them so deep into the system
Decent account and online system


*still ill about Fatal Frame 4/5*
 
Nintendo will put a padlock on the doors of their HQ and shut down for good before they give Sony and Microsoft royalties on Pokemon and Mario sales.


Speaking of Pokémon: Nintendo doesn't own the Pokémon IP (only one third). Although it can be assumed that due to contracts Nintendo is in control of the IP, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo will lose said control if they went third party.

Those contracts aren't public, so this is hypothetical. However, similar cases are often handled in this fashion: The moment Nintendo went third party one of the contracting parties (Nintendo, GameFreak, Creatures Inc.) gets an option to buy the whole IP. It is likely that Nintendo is this party. However, as Pokémon is pretty much the most valuable IP in their portfolio, Nintendo would have to pay either a sh*tload of money or lose the IP. Either way, this is only one of the reasons I don't see Nintendo going third party - ever.
 
Do what they did with the Wii. Launch it with a serious first party title like Zelda to attract the hardcore and give the system a reason to be taken seriously by the media. I would not have gotten a Wii at launch had it not been for Twilight Princess.
 

Hiltz

Member
Which is why the console wouldn't be targeted at Nintendo fans, it would be targeted a xb/ps4 fans.

I don't see how Nintendo could pull that off well when most of the games coming to their platform will be from them. Nintendo obviously doesn't make mature,story-driven titles, so you're naturally going to mostly see a lot of colorful, stylized, non-ultra violent games released by their 1st party teams. They don't make traditional shooters and sports games. They don't make photo-realistic games. Even if Nintendo enters new 2nd party partnerships with a couple of western devs (which ones, I have no idea) to green light western-designed genres that target audiences of Xbox and PlayStation fans like ranging from shooter to sports, how can Nintendo possibly compete with the sheer quantity and marketing of third party games and annualized franchises that have huge advertisements and are associated with Xbox and PlayStation ? Nintendo cannot convince enough gamers to switch sides from Sony/Xbox camp to Nintendo camp, especially given its history of struggling to maintain and grow third party support of the kind of software hardcore gamers want. Consumers will remember Wii U's troubles and that will haunt Nintendo.
 
Almost everything I read on this thread seems to go against everything I love about Nintendo. All the bullet points seem to go the "play it safe" route x1 and ps4 seem to be taking.

tbh, besides the technical difference, they all seem the same. Wii U is the only one that stands out with their list of titles.

Nintendo NEEDS to be different from the competition.

The Wii U had a rough start and I doubt nintendo will ever reach the marketshare like the ps4 is but personally, I like it that way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't nintendo the only company (out of the 3) to post a profit last quarter?
 

Yado

Member
What Nintendo should've done is investing in western studio to release games that cater to the majority of the western audience at launch of their next console and going hard with the marketing. Then they expand their user base while they don't alienate their existing fans since they will keep releasing the type of games they release now.

This. Just getting third party games on board won't help much, people can get those games anywhere else.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
Does Nintendo even need to make a new console? I know they make money by selling hardware but I don't think they will ever sell beyond on what GameCube sold. Relying on gimmicks and exotic hardware is a hit and miss approach which cost them a lot of money and userbase this generation. So honestly I think Nintendo will be around 10-15 million with their next console and the ones that co e after
 
- Get a Cerny equivalent
- Understand needs of devs and one-up competition on that (not just the needs of Nintendo devs like Miyamoto)
- Get better marketers - whoever ran Wii marketing was a Godsend
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Does Nintendo even need to make a new console? I know they make money by selling hardware but I don't think they will ever sell beyond on what GameCube sold. Relying on gimmicks and exotic hardware is a hit and miss approach which cost them a lot of money and userbase this generation. So honestly I think Nintendo will be around 10-15 million with their next console and the ones that co e after

If they can get to the point where games are cross-compatible and all of that, they can release revisions every couple of years rather than going through full-on generations. This will keep their overall userbase high while keeping them out of the every-half-decade arms race that the other two are in. So like, imagine if every three years they release new hardware that gets them halfway to the traditional "next gen" and can still play every game released.
 
Nintendo would do well to realize that America, not Japan, is their biggest, most important and most profitable market now. It's the West that's propping up the Wii U, and buying Mario Kart and Smash and Amiibo's.

Yet, they insist on treating America like a second-class country, as if its not important to them. The whole third party fiasco is a symptom of that, not to mention all of the issues about Amiibo availability, the MIA regular-sized New 3DS, and all the other stuff.
 

ffdgh

Member
They probably can't honestly but hey they can try.

Never use the name wii again.
Pro controller is the standard controller.
Make sure the console doesn't look like the wii.
Avoid any possible name confusion possibilities.
Keep improving on their current online infrastructure.
Make it appealing/relatively strong at an affordable price.
Have great must have games at launch.
No region lock...please...
 

AniHawk

Member
Bollocks.

If they were that insightful and forward thinking they wouldn't have completely lost the Wii audience by gen 7's end, shown such utter incompetency with the design and marketing of the WiiU and it's software, or been so completely fucked over by the mobile market.

They had the right ideas at the right places and times to make a killing, they got unimaginably lucky, to the point it's easier to believe they knew what they were doing, rather than just getting two turds to stick to the wall in consecutive throws.

Their fall in sales that's completely in line with their steadily increasing failure over the years if you take the Wii and DS out of the equation, that's Nintendo without blind luck.

i don't believe in luck. nintendo made the right choices with the wii and the ds, but they were unaware how big the impending threat the mobile market posed (they were designing the 3ds in 2009 originally, when the mobile market seemed to be not *that* big a deal), or how big wii u development would need to be. the latter in particular should have been addressed in 2008 with their record profits. they shouldn't have expanded the company wildly, but they really ought to have started other divisions dedicated to serving their new market. instead, they had it in their head that they could make bridge games that were essentially minigame compilations when the concept of minigame compilations wasn't what sold the wii or ds in the first place.

the ds was also part of nintendo's historically successful handheld line, so i don't know what you're going on about there. it was incredibly more successful than the gba or gb/c line, but there wasn't a decline in that realm until the 3ds. your 'just draw a straight line...!' argument holds no merit there. not that it does elsewhere either. the notion that 'things are back to normal now' is an utterly silly one when we also see other console manufacturers fluctuating in the market seemingly to no pattern at all.

And I just see this kind of attitude as synonymous with Nintendo's biggest flaw in a nutshell, along with the reason they killed NOA's independence seemingly out of spite: Nintendo's Japanese management would rather drive sales into the ground, possibly even go under entirely, than accept the notion that someone else's ideas and strategies might be better.

It has to be their way, their ideas, their desired audience. They can't just look at the market that has existed for decades, or their prior success when they did things differently to today, the world has to conform to what they want it to be, and they'll happily give the vast majority of their current potential costumer base the finger and look for a new audience, rather than just try and be less contrary and give people what they obviously want.

Every generation, millions of former fans have got tired of Nintendo trying to be a unique creative snowflake that has to be different and won't conform to what tier more successful competitors are doing. I'm one of the few that have stuck with them through thick and thin, but I'm not going to delude myself to the fact that they're a bunch of fucking idiots half the time, and easily their own worst enemy.

Infact fuck not being able to compete with Sony and MS, the real thing they can't compete with is their own ambition.

i really hope your solution isn't nintendo should create hardware and software exactly like microsoft and sony. that is just the most creatively dead thing they could possibly do and an incredible mistake. could they learn from their competitors on a few things? absolutely. a big one would be making inexpensive, easy to develop for hardware to sell at or near a profit like the ps4. better online communities and whatnot. less restrictions for third-parties (although their approach to indies has been pretty solid). just making their own version of uncharted on their own version of the ps4 would be bad.
 
sörine;150723377 said:
60 milion likely is more than MS will be pushing this gen lifetime and the generation isn't over yet so Nintendo could even end up doing more than what Sony manages. It's also more than Sega, Atari, NEC, Panasonic or any other console maker outside the current 3 have ever pushed in a single gen. Is 60m partway through the generation really that unimpressive?

No one will ever be doing 250m in a single gen again, and no one ever has before. If that's the standard then everyone fails.
You're being pretty obtuse. Handheld sales do not matter in this conversation. And even if they did, 60 million between the two platforms is not impressive, and the 3DS is losing steam very quickly. Not to mention that the Wii U and 3DS have about 5 years combined on the market and the PS4 and Xbox One are barely over one year. Your comparison is not valid. Also, 3DS + Wii U numbers will probably not surpass PS4 end of life numbers.


Great, so there will be 3 $400, $500 or $600 almost identical consoles.

What's going to happen? A situation like the one currently. One of them sells. The other(s) go down hard.

Do you really think that there is a large audience for 2 or more highly expensive consoles?

It's funny that people forgot how badly Sony flopped with their PS3 last generation. Or how badly the Vita flopped all around the world. A Nintendo PS3 / Vita would probably be the dream of quite a few GAFfers, but would do extremely badly. Who the hell would buy such an expensive console for let's say a 10 year old? Almost noone. Would even most GAFfers buy it? Of course not. They would say "sure, it's powerful, but I already got my PS4 and $400, $500 or $600 is simply too expensive". "A handheld for $300, effectively $400? Are you fucking kidding me?". Just as they currently do - "150pounds for a Wii U? Nope, that's too expensive. Will wait for it to be 50pounds." (and they are saying that while the PS3 is STILL 200pounds)

Let me remind you of the original Xbox. Way more powerful than PS2, but at the same time also more expensive. And it flopped.

It was actually a mistake to release the Wii U at a $350 price point. It was already way too expensive. Some parts of the Wii U are extremely high-tech (the gamepad tech), but this didn't help at all. Wii back then was actually the perfect price.



That wasn't Nintendo's fault. Plenty of third parties simply wanted to create HD HD HD AAA games and then an insane amout of those studios were closed down. They could have chosen to do less expensive projects on Wii - the best selling console last gen -, but nope.

The market in general was not ready for HD at that point. That's one of the reasons why the Wii made so much money. Because most people simply didn't give a shit about a $599 HD console. That's the truth and those third parties simply ignored the market. And many of them paid the price. Last HD gen was a mass grave.

Back then those 3rd parties laughed about the Wii, ignored the market and then were even stubborn to not make proper games for Wii. And that's Nintendo's fault now?



Excuse me? If you call yourself game enthusiast and didn't own a Wii, then you are not really a game enthusiast. Wii had so many gems, lots of hidden gems by third parties too. There were so many classics. So many original games. Wii was the PS2 of its generation.

PS3/360 in comparison were full of black+grey 3rd and first person cinematic shooters. And really buggy games everywhere.



Gameboy was worse than its competitioners. It had a great battery life and had the best games. That's why it won. But it wasn't the most powerful handheld out there. It wasn't even powerful hardware at all.
DS beat the PSP, but it was way less powerful than the PSP. It simply has the best games.
3DS same story.

I don't see your point. What I actually see is that most powerful hardware almost never wins a generation.
You just never stop, man.







Anyways, Nintendo needs to court third parties and NOT get involved in the arms race that Sony and Microsoft are a part of. They need an innovative gimmick to reel in consumers outside of the Nintendo faithful. As much as people forget, the tablet in the Wii U was not originally a love letter to hardcore gamers, Nintendo tried to chase after the same casual base they had with the Wii, except they failed this time. They need to sharpen their execution, make a platform attractive to third party developers, and find a gimmick that will pull in gamers who would not usually buy a Nintendo system.

Otherwise, they better start prepping for a deep slide into irrelevancy.
 
If they can get to the point where games are cross-compatible and all of that, they can release revisions every couple of years rather than going through full-on generations. This will keep their overall userbase high while keeping them out of the every-half-decade arms race that the other two are in. So like, imagine if every three years they release new hardware that gets them halfway to the traditional "next gen" and can still play every game released.
Their entire business model should be an extension of what they're doing with Mario vs Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars. Cross-compatibility and even cross-buy in many cases, between handheld and home consoles but also across generations. This allows them to maintain extreme amounts of momentum with software releases at all times, all available to anybody who owns any Nintendo system.

All signs are that this is exactly what Nintendo is doing for the Wii3/4DS... A true unified hardware/software architecture, common cross-buy/play PSN/Live clone, and all running a common Linux/FreeBSD-like POSSIX-like OS, with the console and handheld varying only in CPU/RAM/storage capacity. This platform will certainly be ARM-based. I'll even bet money on them abandoning optical media entirely in favor of online downloads and flash-based storage carts (usable on both console/handheld).

I will say, however, they absolutely must ditch all the expensive and extra controllers. Something that looks a hell of a lot like a DualShock 4 and Wii U Pro love child, motion sensors and touchpad and all. This will be the only official first-party controller. I'd keep additional controllers to a DDR mat and call it good. The "4DS" can be used as a controller and remote primary/secondary screen to the home console (bonus points if the 4DS can stream it's game cart data to the console so you don't have to physically move the game cart). Supporting 4 simultaneous handhelds being used as controllers and secondary screens is mandatory I think.

If Nintendo wants to get innovative for controls, I think it's time for touch sensors to replace the analog sticks and, possibly, even the d-pad. You could even use fingerprints to skip the whole username/password situation for logging into user accounts. Going back to the circular A/B/X/Y layout and analog triggers of the GameCube would be a smart idea too.

They also need to get serious about toys, tv shows, and general licensing. No more third-tier manufacturers and brands. They need Mario LEGO sets on the shelves, not Mario K'Nex.
I have a feeling that Nintendo is trying to do exactly this and return to their 85-95-ish glory days of official "kids" toys. Amiibo is only the start...
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
]Speaking of Pokémon: Nintendo doesn't own the Pokémon IP (only one third)[/B]. Although it can be assumed that due to contracts Nintendo is in control of the IP, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo will lose said control if they went third party.

Those contracts aren't public, so this is hypothetical. However, similar cases are often handled in this fashion: The moment Nintendo went third party one of the contracting parties (Nintendo, GameFreak, Creatures Inc.) gets an option to buy the whole IP. It is likely that Nintendo is this party. However, as Pokémon is pretty much the most valuable IP in their portfolio, Nintendo would have to pay either a sh*tload of money or lose the IP. Either way, this is only one of the reasons I don't see Nintendo going third party - ever.

The Pokemon relationship is much more complicated than the above quote.

Nintendo own the publishing rights to the Pokemon franchise in the video game space.

The money generated through software sales pass through Nintendo's financials firstly, and are then re-distributed to The Pokemon Company as they are co-publishers. Thus, the bulk of the money goes to Nintendo, and then a small percentage is given to TPC.

Nintendo holds certain trademarks pertaining to the Pokemon franchise, such as the Pokemon logo, and Pokemon character names among others.

In addition, Nintendo holds a 32% interest in The Pokemon Company, and a small percentage in Creatures Inc (sadly Nintendo does not want to disclose the amount/percentage).

The Pokemon Company acts as a brand management. As such, any licensed ventures, tv shows, movies, music, pokemon centers, spin-off games, trading cards, are directly handled by them. Hence, any income generated from the mentioned go directly through The Pokemon Company.

In essence, The Pokemon Company is an independent company that handles the Pokemon license. It acts in the best interest of all three shareholders: Nintendo, Game Freak, Creatures Inc; hence the reason Pokemon is available on mobile platforms.

The Pokemon Company can't distance themselves from Nintendo as they hold the publishing duties and several trademarks related to the franchise, and Nintendo can't distance themselves from TPC as they are the creative force behind Pokemon.
 
i don't believe in luck. nintendo made the right choices with the wii and the ds, but they were unaware how big the impending threat the mobile market posed (they were designing the 3ds in 2009 originally, when the mobile market seemed to be not *that* big a deal), or how big wii u development would need to be. the latter in particular should have been addressed in 2008 with their record profits. they shouldn't have expanded the company wildly, but they really ought to have started other divisions dedicated to serving their new market. instead, they had it in their head that they could make bridge games that were essentially minigame compilations when the concept of minigame compilations wasn't what sold the wii or ds in the first place.

the ds was also part of nintendo's historically successful handheld line, so i don't know what you're going on about there. it was incredibly more successful than the gba or gb/c line, but there wasn't a decline in that realm until the 3ds. your 'just draw a straight line...!' argument holds no merit there. not that it does elsewhere either. the notion that 'things are back to normal now' is an utterly silly one when we also see other console manufacturers fluctuating in the market seemingly to no pattern at all.



i really hope your solution isn't nintendo should create hardware and software exactly like microsoft and sony. that is just the most creatively dead thing they could possibly do and an incredible mistake. could they learn from their competitors on a few things? absolutely. a big one would be making inexpensive, easy to develop for hardware to sell at or near a profit like the ps4. better online communities and whatnot. less restrictions for third-parties (although their approach to indies has been pretty solid). just making their own version of uncharted on their own version of the ps4 would be bad.

What market fluctuations? The poster was right, other than the Wii/DS they have never shown growth and have continuously lost market share to the tune of 15 million consoles on average.

The overall market shrink from PS2 to PS3 can easily be due to the PS2 getting down to 99.99 and releasing in almost every country in the world. The PS3 wasn't capable of that due to the parts used and it's still way more than the PS2 at this stage in its life.

Sony and Microsoft don't have a problem of lost market share atm. I'm only talking market share though, they probably lost an ungodly amount of money with both of those.
 

TM94

Member
Innovate rather than adopt a gimmick like the Wii U pad
Killer launch titles
Redevelop their online infrastructure to rival Live and PSN
Attract third-party devs
Embrace the Indie scene
Make a Pokemon open-world RPG
 

Fireblend

Banned
Anyone who knows me from my post history will know I'm a Nintendo fan first and foremost (ok, not today, that P5 trailer has me lusting after a PS4), but I honestly don't think they will ever regain the terrain in terms of market share they have lost. I don't want to be negative but honestly I'll just keep doing my part by buying their games and making the most out of what's left of our time together, because I have an unsettling feeling it's coming to an end.

I really hope whatever they're planning to follow the 3DS/Wii U with, it's after a market that will sustain them that isn't necessarily the one they've lost these past few years, because there's no way they're getting it back.
 

Amin_and_Azizah

Neo Member
Third party support isnt happening.

^^^^THIS.

A hundred times this.
No matter how powerful their next console is third parties will never support them equally. They could have the most powerful console on the market next generation and the outcome will be the same in regards to third party support. the successor to the Wii U could be one trillion times as powerful as the PS5 and nothing will change in regards to third party support. This situation between Nintendo and third parties was never about power and the type of controller has nothing to do with this either. I agree with the notion that Nintendo needs to keep innovating each and every generation in order to continue on with their niche market and to be sucessful. I don't think that they need to have the highest selling console but then in generation to be seen as a success. As long as they are making a profit every generation they should be fine regardless of being in third place or not. I think Nintendo knows this and I think they are content with this. They may not need to chase the same market that the other two are chasing, they can continue going in the opposite direction as long as they can satisfy their fans and make a profit during each generation they should be just fine.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Anyone who knows me from my post history will know I'm a Nintendo fan first and foremost (ok, not today, that P5 trailer has me lusting after a PS4), but I honestly don't think they will ever regain the terrain in terms of market share they have lost. I don't want to be negative but honestly I'll just keep doing my part by buying their games and making the most out of what's left of our time together, because I have an unsettling feeling it's coming to an end.

I really hope whatever they're planning to follow the 3DS/Wii U with, it's after a market that will sustain them that isn't necessarily the one they've lost these past few years, because there's no way they're getting it back.

Pretty much. I just hope Nintendo makes games as interesting as they do now when they aren't developing them for their own hardware.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
My main points as to why I lost interest in nintendo

1. Title diversity - never was a fan of their main franchises to the degree I was of stuff they had made and turned out good, like when they did sports game or waverace or star tropics. If indie companies have figured out ways to make small titles and not kill themself this company should and needs too. Sick of it and won't buy another console or most of the products for their platforms until they grow up in this area. They wasted two generations when they should've been building up numbers to have enough people. Glad they started fixing development time problem but the company is still too small to do in 3d what they did with 2d machines.

2. Online is raw hot garbage - How this company gets away with what they do when their biggest competitors or similar companies do this well is beyond me. Be it the interface or actual games they consistently amaze me in the disappointment department with how their titles are built around this component. Seriously nintendo and most companies need consultants on things not to do with online titles cause this is my biggest peeve with most developers/publishers.

3. Actually make appealing products relevant to the region. People have been saying this since n64 and yet this company still treats the US and Europe like it's japan. You would figure a company this savvy at times would spot this problem but its gotten worse since n64.

I'd like to list more but to be honest I gave up on this company when I saw the WiiU launch, various delays, the crap online, and complacency to do nothing about their 3rd party situation AAA or indies. Company can die in all honesty let someone else step in to their shoes they forgot why they are in this business outside reliving the past mostly and milking people for it.
 

AniHawk

Member
What market fluctuations? The poster was right, other than the Wii/DS they have never shown growth and have continuously lost market share to the tune of 15 million consoles on average.

the gba was outselling the gb/c and ended comparatively early. the ds outsold the gba. it wasn't some sort of straight decline. the xbox one may wind up doing worse than the 360 but better than the xbox. the ps4 will probably do better than the ps3 but worse than the ps2. those aren't patterns.
 

GamerJM

Banned
It would be really, really tough. I don't think it's possible. There are two routes

1 - Find another great gimmick that resonates with casuals (i.e. Wii. this is likely their course of action)

2 - Have the most powerful console by a significant enough margin with a good standard controller and online infrastructure. Convince 3rd parties to make the best console versions of games for it. Just having equal ports won't cut it. They have to look/run significantly better. I guarantee they could get a lot of hardcore to buy with this. (This plan will never happen).

If they have no gimmick, or the gimmick fails, and they have weaker hardware than their competitors, then there is no reason to buy it unless you are a Nintendo faithful, which is a segment they already have in the bag anyway. (i.e. Wii U)

This guy gets it. This is all that really needs to be said imo.
 
By going all-in with amazing, mindblowing, earth-shattering specs with tons of broken third party shooters and open world fluff I suppose.
 
the gba was outselling the gb/c and ended comparatively early. the ds outsold the gba. it wasn't some sort of straight decline. the xbox one may wind up doing worse than the 360 but better than the xbox. the ps4 will probably do better than the ps3 but worse than the ps2. those aren't patterns.

NES: 61 million
SNES: 49 million (-12 million)
N64: 33 million (-16 million)
Gamecube: 22 million (-11 million)
Wii: 101 million (outlier)
Wii U: >15 million (-7 million or more)

277 million units sold worldwide LTD (est) in 6 generations

Gameboy: 119 million
GBA: 82 million
DS: 155 million (outlier)
3DS: >60 million

Playstation: 105 million
Playstation 2: 158 million
Playstation 3: 85+ million
Playstation 4: 18+ million atm (5 more years of shelf life)

366 million units sold worldwide LTD (est) in 4 generations and the PS3 isint done yet and the PS4 is just getting started. The Wii is long gone and the Wii U is stagnant.

Again the PS2's price dropped like a rock and was everywhere. If the PS3 was able to hit those prices much earlier (and didn't launch at 599.99) on it would have been up there over the 100 million range easily.

Xbox: 25 million
Xbox 360: 85 million
Xbox One: +/- 10 million

My point is that both Sony and MS don't have a base drop off like Nintendo has seen. Even if the PS3 didn't live up to PS1/PS2 level sales they sold 85 million consoles which gives them options (PSN+, Digital Revenue, royalties, etc.) Its a larger base to use.

Nintendo has shown continued decline over and over with the exception of the Wii/DS, both of which were released at the best possible time with the right gimmicks.

It doesn't matter if the overall market is shrinking or showing other signs of fluctuation. The numbers speak for themselves, and it is why (in my opinion) that Nintendo is doing QoL, Amiibos and Virtual console initiatives. They see the writing on the wall.
 
I don't think making something similar to the competition is going to make them reach a much wider audience. They need to do something different. They did with the Wii and the Wii U. One worked out, and the other didn't. They have to find a way to capture people's imagination with the hardware, because clearly they're not able to attract people to the Wii U even though the software is incredible and by far the best of any publisher this generation.
 
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